Mbelch.9028 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 Thanks for all the comments so far! I saw some really nice QOL changes for classes throughout, but had some questions as a whole relating to why some changes were made. 1.) Mesmer changes — Were they enough? Time will tell, but according to a few top PvPers, the nerfs happened in the wrong places and might have done damage in the wrong way. 2.) Reaper damage buff — Was that necessary? 3.) FB healing nerfs — Was that necessary? 4.) Revenant damage buffed — Both directly and indirectly... I don't think this was a good decision. Their PVP damage was already legendary. If you say it wasn't, you've never faced a good Rev. 5.) Soulbeast damage buff — This is a potentially scary buff to a class that already has great damage. Thoughts? Adding on.. 6.) Really interesting change, making condis not tick on invulnerable skills. I think it's smart overall, as the skills have longer cooldowns and were intended to make you not take damage. I think Engineers, Elementalists and Guardians benefit the most from this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darknicrofia.2604 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 Shield of Wrath: Reduced the cooldown of this skill from 36 seconds to 35 seconds. /thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bravan.3876 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 Let me make a pre summary: mimimimimimimimimimimimimimimimimimimimimimimimimimimimimimimimimimimimimimimimimimimimimimi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devilman.1532 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 > @"Mbelch.9028" said: > I don't see one yet, so might as well get the ball rolling... > > I saw some really nice QOL changes for classes throughout, but had some questions as a whole relating to why some changes were made. > > 1.) Mesmer changes — Were they enough? Time will tell, but I really don't think so. > 2.) Reaper damage buffs — Was that necessary? > 3.) FB healing nerfs — Was that necessary? > 4.) Revenant damage buffed — Both directly and indirectly... I don't think this was a good decision. Their PVP damage was already legendary. If you say it wasn't, you've never faced a good Rev. > 5.) Soulbeast damage buff — This is a potentially scary buff to a class that already has great damage. Thoughts? 1.) nowhere near enough EM didn't get touched. Minor to no effect at all to the MESMERTRAIN 2.) ummm no, no it wasn't 3.) NO just NO. We don't want heals or support in this game!! We want everyone to drop in less than 3 seconds! Just plain stupid. 4.) BAD IDEA 5.) Meh they are still garbo Overall a typical trashbag poor attempt at "balance" I mean really did anyone expect anything else? Poor Eles though that poor class has been grabbing its ankles for a long time now.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mbelch.9028 Posted July 10, 2018 Author Share Posted July 10, 2018 > @"Devilman.1532" said: > > @"Mbelch.9028" said: > > I don't see one yet, so might as well get the ball rolling... > > > > I saw some really nice QOL changes for classes throughout, but had some questions as a whole relating to why some changes were made. > > > > 1.) Mesmer changes — Were they enough? Time will tell, but I really don't think so. > > 2.) Reaper damage buffs — Was that necessary? > > 3.) FB healing nerfs — Was that necessary? > > 4.) Revenant damage buffed — Both directly and indirectly... I don't think this was a good decision. Their PVP damage was already legendary. If you say it wasn't, you've never faced a good Rev. > > 5.) Soulbeast damage buff — This is a potentially scary buff to a class that already has great damage. Thoughts? > > 1.) nowhere near enough EM didn't get touched. Minor to no effect at all to the MESMERTRAIN > 2.) ummm no, no it wasn't > 3.) NO just NO. We don't want heals or support in this game!! We want everyone to drop in less than 3 seconds! Just plain stupid. > 4.) BAD IDEA > 5.) Meh they are still garbo > > Overall a typical trashbag poor attempt at "balance" I mean really did anyone expect anything else? > Poor Eles though that poor class has been grabbing its ankles for a long time now.. I wound up changing the Mesmer bullet because of some input from a few top-tier mesmers, but I agree with you on the rest. Also, yeah poor ele. I miss my D/D Valk build from 2014. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devilman.1532 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 Yeah man this patch is a joke as usual. Guess my ele will never come off the shelf for even longer. Guess they don't want ele in the game anymore idk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hot Boy.7138 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 The mesmer nerfs were in the wrong places. There are two big issues with mesmer imo: Condi mirage, and Greatsword power burst mirage. The problem with condi mirage is that it can load you up with over a dozen stacks of bleeds, torment, burn, and confusion in a moment in a fight. In combination with stealth, and retargetting skills (axe 3, ambush), it is completely overpowering. The nerfs addressed the initial burn stacks you'll get from mirage, but that was such a small part of the overall damage anyways. Expect to get dominated by condi mirage for another full season. Greatsword power burst can blow up anyone under 20k-22k hp in a second all from stealth, or out of stealth in a second. The problem is that greatsword 2 bounces and is unblockable, and again, with stealth, teleports, retargetting, they can easily kite to keep setting up this burst. It wasn't even looked at it seems. However, you guys can breathe easy knowing that blurred frenzy's evade frame and damage has been nerfed, which i don't see making a significant impact in either of those builds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bravan.3876 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 > @"Hot Boy.7138" said: > The mesmer nerfs were in the wrong places. > > There are two big issues with mesmer imo: Condi mirage, and Greatsword power burst mirage. > > The problem with condi mirage is that it can load you up with over a dozen stacks of bleeds, torment, burn, and confusion in a moment in a fight. In combination with stealth, and retargetting skills (axe 3, ambush), it is completely overpowering. The nerfs addressed the initial burn stacks you'll get from mirage, but that was such a small part of the overall damage anyways. Expect to get dominated by condi mirage for another full season. > > Greatsword power burst can blow up anyone under 20k-22k hp in a second all from stealth, or out of stealth in a second. The problem is that greatsword 2 bounces and is unblockable, and again, with stealth, teleports, retargetting, they can easily kite to keep setting up this burst. It wasn't even looked at it seems. > > However, you guys can breathe easy knowing that blurred frenzy's evade frame and damage has been nerfed, which i don't see making a significant impact in either of those builds. GS mesmer can oneshot out of stealth since game release, never was any problem for a semi decent player. There is no nerf needed just a need to get good. The blurred nerf is bad, because it also hit power mes what was not op at all. Anyway seems thief got hit even harder than mesmer. FB support and survivability was overperforming so needed a nerf since the last 2 patches already (but got buffed instead in the last 2). Not a single class in this game need more dmg , in particular not Warrior, Guard, Ranger or Revenant. All a Rev needed was a bit of condiremove in the marauder herald build. Why they didn't delete gamebreaking ress traits like from blood necro? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxwelgm.4315 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 All in all the nerf to Putrid Curse (scepter 3) is the biggest hit to Necro, even more so than Dhuumfire IMO, but they still remain a good option for support as Blood (specially accounting for the fact that Firebrands were nerfed). Rev has gotten so much of a buff though that they might become the next widespread class after Mesmer. Mesmers by the way remain king, their survivability is still untouched and the problem with EM is allowing the mirage to perform a whole rotation without you being able to ever stop it, and this can't be addressed by changing damage of the rotation itself. Reapers seem to be in a pretty good spot and definitely have to be focused again. Finally, as for Soulbeast...I might just play Ranger for the rest of the season lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiki.9310 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 There should of been renegade changes for pvp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortrialus.3062 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 > @"Mbelch.9028" said: > I don't see one yet, so might as well get the ball rolling... > > I saw some really nice QOL changes for classes throughout, but had some questions as a whole relating to why some changes were made. > > 1.) Mesmer changes — Were they enough? Time will tell, but according to a few top PvPers, the nerfs happened in the wrong places and might have done damage in the wrong way. > 2.) Reaper damage buffs — Was that necessary? > 3.) FB healing nerfs — Was that necessary? > 4.) Revenant damage buffed — Both directly and indirectly... I don't think this was a good decision. Their PVP damage was already legendary. If you say it wasn't, you've never faced a good Rev. > 5.) Soulbeast damage buff — This is a potentially scary buff to a class that already has great damage. Thoughts? I like them. > Mesmer > Mesmers have been doing a little too well in recent updates, with increased damage across the board due to the confusion changes, as well as unparalleled support from boon share on top of multiple evasion windows. While we think these are good thematic roles for mesmers to have, their overall effectiveness is too high, so we are taking steps to rein in some of that extra power. > > Blurred Frenzy: The animation time of this skill has been reduced from approximately 1.75 seconds to 1 second while retaining all previous attacks. Damage of this skill has been reduced by 17% in PvP and WvW, with PvE being reduced by 36%. The baseline recharge time has been reduced from 12 seconds to 10 seconds. > The Prestige: Burning duration has been modified from 3 stacks for 3 seconds to 1 stack for 9 seconds. > Phantasmal Mage: The burning duration of the initial attack has been modified from 2 stacks for 3 seconds to 1 stack for 6 seconds. The attack's burning has been modified from 3 stacks for 3 seconds to 1 stack for 9 seconds. > Maim the Disillusioned: Torment duration has been split between game modes and will now deliver 4 seconds of torment in PvP and WvW while continuing to deal 6 seconds of torment in PvE. > Imaginary Axes: Inflicted torment duration has been reduced from 5 seconds to 4 seconds. > Axes of Symmetry: Inflicted confusion duration has been reduced from 8 seconds to 6 seconds in PvE. > Jaunt: The ammunition recharge time of this skill has now been split and will use a 30-second cooldown in PvP and WvW while maintaining a 20-second cooldown in PvE. > Signet of Inspiration: Reduced the duration of aegis shared by this skill from 10 seconds to 2 seconds. > Illusionary Inspiration: Reduced the duration of aegis shared by this trait from 10 seconds to 2 seconds. > Inspiring Distortion: Reduced the duration of aegis shared by this trait from 5 seconds to 2 seconds. > Nomad's Endurance: Fixed a bug that could cause the bonus condition damage from this trait to be applied to characters other than the mesmer. > Chaotic Persistence: The boon and condition duration bonus has been decreased from 3% to 2% per boon on the mesmer. The torch changes have been my exact prescription for Condi Mirage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodzynald.5897 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 I'd love a stream chat with balancing devs to hear them out on. I am curious what raving minds come up with those changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devilman.1532 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 > @"Rodzynald.5897" said: > I'd love a stream chat with balancing devs to hear them out on. I am curious what raving minds come up with those changes. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arzurag.7506 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 I personally welcome the reaper-buffs, though it is only a damage buff, which is something reaper actually never really had a problem with. I would like to reduce his damage by 20%, but in return add some more boons like protection and aegis, regeneration.........you know, kinda a bit more of all boons available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yannir.4132 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 > @"Hiki.9310" said: > There should of been renegade changes for pvp. Wouldn't change anything. Renegade has fundamental issues concerning PvP, and it doesn't make a whiff of a difference what they do, Renegade will still suck. Nothing short of making the warbandmates 1-shot people will do anything meaningful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArthurDent.9538 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 Rev didn't really get damage buffs, the more significant changes were pve only. The pvp buffs were probably more than offset by bug fixing the free quickness that roiling mists was granting along with removal of fallibility sigil which disproportionately hits revenant damage because of devastation traits being contingent on the target having vulnerability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyraios.8954 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 why the crazy warrior buffs but no dragonhunter buffs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tails.9372 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 The change to unload was stupid and is nothing but pandering to the nonsensical notion that unload spam is somehow a good stadagy. Even before these changes it was already easy enough to to deal with this if you how to game mechanic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koen.1327 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 disappointing, doesn't seem to diversity builds if changing anything at all i welcome buffs to ranger as it's my main but i feel one shot builds are benefiting the most from it. i can easily burst targets down now with just lb2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UfoCoffee.2084 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 1. These changes will lower their initial burst as it was burning that did the most burst, we'll see how it turns out. The mantra power build will still one shot from stealth in 1 second and there's nothing you can do about it if you don't have passive defenses. 2. Buffs as in plural? The only buff they got in PvP was on their GS3 which is 10% damage if the target is over 50% health? Not much to care about here really. It's on a 12 second cd if i remember correctly? They are still incredibly easy to kite and kill from range. This won't change anything. 3. Firebrands were way too strong, i welcome this nerf. 4. This was the strangest one for me as revs are incredibly powerful against anything non-condi. Now they are even better and you'll start seeing 2 of them a game now that condi is toned down a bit. 5. Smoke attack was nerfed a lot and this is a big part of one of their combos so that's a nerf for them. The cast time on WI is nice for them but not game changing, they'll still leave themselves open. Also smokescale bite was nerfed. I think they'll be roughly the same. If you focus them and get them on the backfoot they go down fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EpicTurtle.8571 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > @"Mbelch.9028" said: > > I don't see one yet, so might as well get the ball rolling... > > > > I saw some really nice QOL changes for classes throughout, but had some questions as a whole relating to why some changes were made. > > > > 1.) Mesmer changes — Were they enough? Time will tell, but according to a few top PvPers, the nerfs happened in the wrong places and might have done damage in the wrong way. > > 2.) Reaper damage buffs — Was that necessary? > > 3.) FB healing nerfs — Was that necessary? > > 4.) Revenant damage buffed — Both directly and indirectly... I don't think this was a good decision. Their PVP damage was already legendary. If you say it wasn't, you've never faced a good Rev. > > 5.) Soulbeast damage buff — This is a potentially scary buff to a class that already has great damage. Thoughts? > > I like them. > > > Mesmer > > Mesmers have been doing a little too well in recent updates, with increased damage across the board due to the confusion changes, as well as unparalleled support from boon share on top of multiple evasion windows. While we think these are good thematic roles for mesmers to have, their overall effectiveness is too high, so we are taking steps to rein in some of that extra power. > > > > Blurred Frenzy: The animation time of this skill has been reduced from approximately 1.75 seconds to 1 second while retaining all previous attacks. Damage of this skill has been reduced by 17% in PvP and WvW, with PvE being reduced by 36%. The baseline recharge time has been reduced from 12 seconds to 10 seconds. > > The Prestige: Burning duration has been modified from 3 stacks for 3 seconds to 1 stack for 9 seconds. > > Phantasmal Mage: The burning duration of the initial attack has been modified from 2 stacks for 3 seconds to 1 stack for 6 seconds. The attack's burning has been modified from 3 stacks for 3 seconds to 1 stack for 9 seconds. > > Maim the Disillusioned: Torment duration has been split between game modes and will now deliver 4 seconds of torment in PvP and WvW while continuing to deal 6 seconds of torment in PvE. > > Imaginary Axes: Inflicted torment duration has been reduced from 5 seconds to 4 seconds. > > Axes of Symmetry: Inflicted confusion duration has been reduced from 8 seconds to 6 seconds in PvE. > > Jaunt: The ammunition recharge time of this skill has now been split and will use a 30-second cooldown in PvP and WvW while maintaining a 20-second cooldown in PvE. > > Signet of Inspiration: Reduced the duration of aegis shared by this skill from 10 seconds to 2 seconds. > > Illusionary Inspiration: Reduced the duration of aegis shared by this trait from 10 seconds to 2 seconds. > > Inspiring Distortion: Reduced the duration of aegis shared by this trait from 5 seconds to 2 seconds. > > Nomad's Endurance: Fixed a bug that could cause the bonus condition damage from this trait to be applied to characters other than the mesmer. > > Chaotic Persistence: The boon and condition duration bonus has been decreased from 3% to 2% per boon on the mesmer. > > The torch changes have been my exact prescription for Condi Mirage. Would've been nice to have some cooldown reduction at least seeing as they're on par with Torch 4 on Ranger now, just point blank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortrialus.3062 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 > @"EpicTurtle.8571" said: > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > @"Mbelch.9028" said: > > > I don't see one yet, so might as well get the ball rolling... > > > > > > I saw some really nice QOL changes for classes throughout, but had some questions as a whole relating to why some changes were made. > > > > > > 1.) Mesmer changes — Were they enough? Time will tell, but according to a few top PvPers, the nerfs happened in the wrong places and might have done damage in the wrong way. > > > 2.) Reaper damage buffs — Was that necessary? > > > 3.) FB healing nerfs — Was that necessary? > > > 4.) Revenant damage buffed — Both directly and indirectly... I don't think this was a good decision. Their PVP damage was already legendary. If you say it wasn't, you've never faced a good Rev. > > > 5.) Soulbeast damage buff — This is a potentially scary buff to a class that already has great damage. Thoughts? > > > > I like them. > > > > > Mesmer > > > Mesmers have been doing a little too well in recent updates, with increased damage across the board due to the confusion changes, as well as unparalleled support from boon share on top of multiple evasion windows. While we think these are good thematic roles for mesmers to have, their overall effectiveness is too high, so we are taking steps to rein in some of that extra power. > > > > > > Blurred Frenzy: The animation time of this skill has been reduced from approximately 1.75 seconds to 1 second while retaining all previous attacks. Damage of this skill has been reduced by 17% in PvP and WvW, with PvE being reduced by 36%. The baseline recharge time has been reduced from 12 seconds to 10 seconds. > > > The Prestige: Burning duration has been modified from 3 stacks for 3 seconds to 1 stack for 9 seconds. > > > Phantasmal Mage: The burning duration of the initial attack has been modified from 2 stacks for 3 seconds to 1 stack for 6 seconds. The attack's burning has been modified from 3 stacks for 3 seconds to 1 stack for 9 seconds. > > > Maim the Disillusioned: Torment duration has been split between game modes and will now deliver 4 seconds of torment in PvP and WvW while continuing to deal 6 seconds of torment in PvE. > > > Imaginary Axes: Inflicted torment duration has been reduced from 5 seconds to 4 seconds. > > > Axes of Symmetry: Inflicted confusion duration has been reduced from 8 seconds to 6 seconds in PvE. > > > Jaunt: The ammunition recharge time of this skill has now been split and will use a 30-second cooldown in PvP and WvW while maintaining a 20-second cooldown in PvE. > > > Signet of Inspiration: Reduced the duration of aegis shared by this skill from 10 seconds to 2 seconds. > > > Illusionary Inspiration: Reduced the duration of aegis shared by this trait from 10 seconds to 2 seconds. > > > Inspiring Distortion: Reduced the duration of aegis shared by this trait from 5 seconds to 2 seconds. > > > Nomad's Endurance: Fixed a bug that could cause the bonus condition damage from this trait to be applied to characters other than the mesmer. > > > Chaotic Persistence: The boon and condition duration bonus has been decreased from 3% to 2% per boon on the mesmer. > > > > The torch changes have been my exact prescription for Condi Mirage. > > Would've been nice to have some cooldown reduction at least seeing as they're on par with Torch 4 on Ranger now, just point blank. You can't really quantify them purely by damage when The Prestige stealths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kako.1930 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 These changes did nothing to address the issues that people have been talking about lol. They didn't even try. It's like they just threw together the laziest list possible just to make it so they don't have to do anything for another 3 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EpicTurtle.8571 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > @"EpicTurtle.8571" said: > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > @"Mbelch.9028" said: > > > > I don't see one yet, so might as well get the ball rolling... > > > > > > > > I saw some really nice QOL changes for classes throughout, but had some questions as a whole relating to why some changes were made. > > > > > > > > 1.) Mesmer changes — Were they enough? Time will tell, but according to a few top PvPers, the nerfs happened in the wrong places and might have done damage in the wrong way. > > > > 2.) Reaper damage buffs — Was that necessary? > > > > 3.) FB healing nerfs — Was that necessary? > > > > 4.) Revenant damage buffed — Both directly and indirectly... I don't think this was a good decision. Their PVP damage was already legendary. If you say it wasn't, you've never faced a good Rev. > > > > 5.) Soulbeast damage buff — This is a potentially scary buff to a class that already has great damage. Thoughts? > > > > > > I like them. > > > > > > > Mesmer > > > > Mesmers have been doing a little too well in recent updates, with increased damage across the board due to the confusion changes, as well as unparalleled support from boon share on top of multiple evasion windows. While we think these are good thematic roles for mesmers to have, their overall effectiveness is too high, so we are taking steps to rein in some of that extra power. > > > > > > > > Blurred Frenzy: The animation time of this skill has been reduced from approximately 1.75 seconds to 1 second while retaining all previous attacks. Damage of this skill has been reduced by 17% in PvP and WvW, with PvE being reduced by 36%. The baseline recharge time has been reduced from 12 seconds to 10 seconds. > > > > The Prestige: Burning duration has been modified from 3 stacks for 3 seconds to 1 stack for 9 seconds. > > > > Phantasmal Mage: The burning duration of the initial attack has been modified from 2 stacks for 3 seconds to 1 stack for 6 seconds. The attack's burning has been modified from 3 stacks for 3 seconds to 1 stack for 9 seconds. > > > > Maim the Disillusioned: Torment duration has been split between game modes and will now deliver 4 seconds of torment in PvP and WvW while continuing to deal 6 seconds of torment in PvE. > > > > Imaginary Axes: Inflicted torment duration has been reduced from 5 seconds to 4 seconds. > > > > Axes of Symmetry: Inflicted confusion duration has been reduced from 8 seconds to 6 seconds in PvE. > > > > Jaunt: The ammunition recharge time of this skill has now been split and will use a 30-second cooldown in PvP and WvW while maintaining a 20-second cooldown in PvE. > > > > Signet of Inspiration: Reduced the duration of aegis shared by this skill from 10 seconds to 2 seconds. > > > > Illusionary Inspiration: Reduced the duration of aegis shared by this trait from 10 seconds to 2 seconds. > > > > Inspiring Distortion: Reduced the duration of aegis shared by this trait from 5 seconds to 2 seconds. > > > > Nomad's Endurance: Fixed a bug that could cause the bonus condition damage from this trait to be applied to characters other than the mesmer. > > > > Chaotic Persistence: The boon and condition duration bonus has been decreased from 3% to 2% per boon on the mesmer. > > > > > > The torch changes have been my exact prescription for Condi Mirage. > > > > Would've been nice to have some cooldown reduction at least seeing as they're on par with Torch 4 on Ranger now, just point blank. > > You can't really quantify them purely by damage when The Prestige stealths. The stealth ends up being the longest most obvious telegraph in the game, so yes I will quantify it purely by damage. Besides, Mesmer Torch skills have been baseline 30 second cooldown for little reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abelisk.4527 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 Condi mirage has been nerfed considerably. Invulnerabilities now remove damage from conditions. This means that: cMirage is no longer able to defeat Holosmith, perhaps ele and guard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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