Do you think Elementalist class "balancing" is justified?

[Conqueror.3682]

What i want, is to make the rotation simpler, with not so many conjures and stuff, but instead we have the same rotation and now it does less dps.

 

i really think that conjures should be reworked, it is ridiculous that our dps depends from these skills. I just hate conjures.

[RAZOR.7246]

I'm only going to speak from a PvE perspective. The thing is weaver was a high risk high reward class where you have almost no survivability, are entirely reliant on good team support and have really difficult rotations which can be easily messed up. To some extent the higher dps you got from weavers was justified because it simply doesn't do anything else, not even CC. Keep in mind that you're looking at the top few weavers who can pull off DPS Benchmarks. It's not like you could go into any raid with a weaver and be strongly overpowered. The game was in a place pre-patch where the average person could get on any class and it had some viability in raids which arguably is their main endgame content. Maybe those really elite groups can run all weavers but the rest of the population definitely can't. These groups only take the best as well as they have really stringent requirements and put you through numerous tests before you're allowed to join. It's the same thing with Epidemic. A really good group can pull it off effectively but any other group can't coordinate it to use it to it's full potential.

 

You can almost forget about it with 300 ping which you average in most SEA countries and Australia especially where slow internet is the norm. Where 35k is the benchmark you're looking at 30k realistically in most cases. I know several people who have practiced for hours and days just to get thier weaver DPS to acceptable levels and then had the rug pulled from under them with these nerfs. If you've ever pugged a weaver for Raids or Fractals even at reset you'd know the general population can't play it effectively usually doing less dps than good BS Warriors even. This patch hits everyone just because a handful of people using ideal conditions can hit insane DPS on a class that was clearly designed for that purpose. Now it's the same rotation but no reward.

 

The next issue was the changes to sword. How is it that changes that were specifically stated to be intended to make that weapon better in fact made it significantly worse?It's the same issue. The existing risk is still there but now there's absolutely no reward at all for it's usage. If that was the intention from the beginning then simply state that it is. Saying it's going to be made better and then making it almost unusable reflects poorly on whoever made those changes.

 

I have nothing against shaking up classes and giving unappreciated classes new viability. The thing is buff them to a level where they are viable instead of making other things not viable just so they can look decent. Everyone I've shared my thoughts with echoes the same sentiment and these are people in map chat as well, not just friends. Everyone paid hard earned money for this game. We want to play what we want to play, not what others dictate to us what we should play. Now, from being able to choose from a wide variety of options for raids, in most of them we're reduced to pressing 1 on deadeyes or soulbeasts for DPS specs.

 

Another issue with this is the overall lower DPS. Daily, my frac runs take roughly 50 minutes to 1 hour 15mins depending. On top of that the daily gathering and dailies take another 1 1/2 hours. Additionally raids, not just full clears but practice runs etc. take another 2-3 hours daily. I am a working student. I barely even have the time to go and do WvW, PvP or farm metas etc. on top of these things that I do daily. I for one don't appreciate my time being wasted by having my run durations increased by having these DPS nerfs implemented everywhere and I can tell you I'm not enjoying this game experience where after a long day at work or school, I'm forced onto a braindead class I don't want to play where I just have to spam 1 button.

 

Based on what I've observed and that's not just based on the results of the poll at the start of this discussion, I can say with absolute certainty that the majority of players are discontented with the patch in general, not just with Elementalist changes. Deepstone in particular has been a disappointing fractal because 1. it's not challenging at all even with unfavorable instabilities and 2. it's dragged out with unnecessary, unchallenging mechanics which cannot be skipped. What I've witnessed on these forums is people flaming others for "crying" about these changes but I myself have already witnessed 11 players from my friends list leave game since the last LS episode hit. These nerfs are pretty much the straw that broke the camel's back with a lot of them. Just speaking on behalf of my friends, we're all getting tired from doing the same content over and over for months but now on top of that we have to contend with using classes we outright do not want to play on EVERYTHING just so we can clear runs.

 

[Riranor.6315]

This is gonna be biased info posting it in the ele forum. should post this poll in the main professions area to get more accurate results really.

[RAZOR.7246]

> @"Riranor.6315" said:

> This is gonna be biased info posting it in the ele forum. should post this poll in the main professions area to get more accurate results really.

 

It's going to be biased on a general forum anyway because everyone just wants their own main class to be the best in the game. It's more likely to turn into an us vs. them situation. Besides if you don't play a class regularly, you wouldn't be able to form a proper opinion on the class and what was really wrong or right about it. You'd just go off what people were telling you or the more likely, you'd just be watching benchmark videos and basing your opinions off of those. The general gameplay in less optimal or everday situations would not be taken into account and they quite clearly have not been with regards to these nerfs. This is not limited to elementalists either.

 

[Ryou.2398]

> @"Kaleban.9834" said:

> Can we get some sort of class definition from ANet?

>

> Something in the Profession forums/Wiki that states EXACTLY what a class is supposed to do? Because honestly, given their balance process, I can't figure it out.

>

> Every yahoo that complains about Eles since forever always moans about "der DPSs" but forgets all the cons that balance it out:

>

> - Low health

> - Low armor

> - Mediocre mobility compared to professions like Warrior, Thief and Ranger

> - Large number of skills that are individually weak because of "stance dancing"

> - No stealth

> - No Death Shroud

> - Low number of blocks/invulns

> - High CDs on almost all utility skills

> - Poorly designed traits that do not synergize well

> - No weapon swap, locking Eles in at a single range

> - Necessity of choosing ALL offense or ALL defense, when every other profession gets both

> - And now, horribly nerfed damage to "normalize" Ele DPS, with no normalizing of survivability

 

I agree we need better definitions, for crying outloud it does not matter if its someone elses game or not you make a class based on a typical dnd wizard that destroys its enemies then thats what people expect, yes they have healing and small defensive capability to but regardless we need some clear defintions of what classes are meant to be, if someone wants to play a damage caster then it should be called a damage caster of some kind just saying.

[Feanor.2358]

> @"Conqueror.3682" said:

> What i want, is to make the rotation simpler, with not so many conjures and stuff, but instead we have the same rotation and now it does less dps.

>

> i really think that conjures should be reworked, it is ridiculous that our dps depends from these skills. I just hate conjures.

 

There are plenty of classes that to that. Or heck, you can do that on ele as well - just don't pick conjures, play Fresh Air Tempest or whatever. The game needs to have complex builds as well.

[Jski.6180]

> @"Riranor.6315" said:

> This is gonna be biased info posting it in the ele forum. should post this poll in the main professions area to get more accurate results really.

 

How often do other ppl of other classes play the ele class if any thing its best to ask the ppl who are playing the class how do you think balancing is on it.

 

Not like you ask some one who lives in land lock places how is the sea today. Its just not part of there life for the most part so there not going to be much view one way or another. Better to ask ppl who are impacted the more impacted the better the point of view.

[yumee.1405]

> @"Threather.9354" said:

> Yes regarding WvW. By tuning down overall long range damage with nerfs to dhuumfire, lava fonts, CoR etc, they push WvW to what it is supposed to be; gamemode of coordination.

>

> Theres no space in WvW for full damage casters that play solo anymore. Wanna kill something? Bomb with other players. Weaver was overtuned regarding damage, before PoF there was actual ranged tags where eles worked together to kill groups of enemies.

>

> Regarding PvE, they most likely wanted to push people in raids lower in damage just to slow down the easymode powercreep in the game a bit. So they tuned down epi, meteor and lava font. Completely fine reasoning.

 

 

About wvw > actually full zerker dps build was ... strong on dps AOE wise, but you could get One Shot by about everything so you couldn't "play solo" with such dps builds, you have and had to rely on everyone to keep you aliove or be a beast at placement and even so you couldn't get the best of your build. but let me think > ele's don't get a party that help you survive cause you don't bring anything to the party and you get a party of people that dps so you can coordinate. It has always been this way and and ele has never been dps easy mod Oo. Even if the meteor is "doing the job", if you die you're useless.

 

I don't mind tunning down ele damage if we can bring something to the party or have survivability. Those nerfs are meant to nerf weaver that is harder to survive than core ele for a better dps. But it does also nerf core ele :/

The way expansion have been made (for ele) is making that multitool squishy class just a glasscanon dps. It's no mor interresting to play ele as another role since other classes does better or the game changed too much to make it worth playing this way.

 

It's hard to balance a mmo like this and I don't blame the changes but it's sad to see that some classes lost half of their work or that some classes just doesn't have a place in certain game mode because some others are just too strong to give them space.

 

Sorry it's a bit condused and confusing ^^"

[MyPuppy.8970]

They could have just lowered ele's base hp + armor + built in defensive mechanics to compensate for the higher damage.

 

But they're already the lowest of all.

[Xillllix.3485]

Was reading through the patch notes. Confirms it was a good choice to finally leave this game for good. GG Anet sending elementalists to play other games.

[Chasind.3128]

ele is amazing in pve! and thats it.

[Zipsu.8014]

As someone who has put over 2k hours into ele as main, it just.. feels so weak now, takes a complex rotation to get decent dps which is completely useless during short encounters, I find holo to be much more fun these days, less squishy, more consistent damage output in T4's.

[Jski.6180]

> @"Chasind.3128" said:

> ele is amazing in pve! and thats it.

 

All classes are amazing in pve because pve is a joke of a game type and why the ideal of skill split was going to fix it. I still do not get why they are un-spliting things in favor of pve balancing.

[Zelse.9780]

I like how ANET thinks that anyone who picks up staff weaver will be doing massive damage. A weaver who doesn't know what they are doing will be doing CONSIDERABLY lower damage then the other classes. Only weavers who put in the time and effort to learn how to play well were rewarded. AS IT SHOULD BE.

 

Considering we are wearing Light armor in pve, and berserker armor we are the epitome of what a glass cannon is, all our utility and traits are offensive giving us 0!, ZIP, ZILTCH, NADA, defenses, and now you're telling us that we sacrifice survivability for nothing? what is the point of the weaver class anyway? what is the point of the staff anyway? staff in other game modes especially pvp is absolutely garbage, and was only good for pve content, and now ANET takes that away as well. I would like a written explanation of why ANET would do this? The justification on why these changes were made. I wonder if it's it because other classes complain that we had too much damage? I feel like a certain class has their niche. Druids are amazing healing support. Chrono's amazing boon support. And staff weaver was glass cannon damage that excelled in aoe damage. So now, what are we good for? The weaver class is now a joke, staff weaver offer nothing else to a group other then our damage, we have no self sustain, no group support.

 

[Zelse.9780]

> @"Xillllix.3485" said:

> Was reading through the patch notes. Confirms it was a good choice to finally leave this game for good. GG Anet sending elementalists to play other games.

 

I actually stopped playing as well. I only now go on if a real life friend wants help with something, other then that been venturing off into other games!

[Chasind.3128]

> @"Jski.6180" said:

> > @"Chasind.3128" said:

> > ele is amazing in pve! and thats it.

>

> All classes are amazing in pve because pve is a joke of a game type and why the ideal of skill split was going to fix it. I still do not get why they are un-spliting things in favor of pve balancing.

 

Because of the casual players. Make PvE pretty for the casuals! The veterans and competitive players can come later.

[TwiceDead.1963]

> @"Riranor.6315" said:

> This is gonna be biased info posting it in the ele forum. should post this poll in the main professions area to get more accurate results really.

 

I also like going into an echochamber where people will say the things I like to hear when I start polling for answers.

[Jski.6180]

> @"TwiceDead.1963" said:

> > @"Riranor.6315" said:

> > This is gonna be biased info posting it in the ele forum. should post this poll in the main professions area to get more accurate results really.

>

> I also like going into an echochamber where people will say the things I like to hear when I start polling for answers.

 

Well that is the ele forms we ask question of devs and never them a respond from them. So we do our best to talk about the problem knowing no one but other ele players are going to read about them.

 

Its not the ppl posting here that making it an echochamber its Anet.

 

In a lot of ways talking about the MS being op is some what braking with the "ele is perfect now" point of view and a lot of ele do seem to see it this way as they understand the depths of nerfs to come if MS or the curing balancing staying as is.

 

What bugs me is Anet not hot fixed MS high start dmg in at least pvp environments if they realy wanted that to be the balance of ele a lot of the ele class is going to be nerf to the ground.

[Waisenpai.6028]

Core ele and arcane tree needs buffs like Fire and Air. Tempest needs buffs anet butcher this spec in order to sell POF. Please buff this so you can use it in wvw, spvp and pve. Give it some condi or power damage or something. SInce it might be strong during HoT times but it's a wet noodle healbot in POF times. And you can't really support well against the meta condis or burst damage now. easy fix Buff back arcane fury and give it a seperate application if it runs with CORE, HOT or POF. This will prevent the power creep.

[Henrik.7560]

core ele/tempest need a lot of buff, weaver is not op anymore it is reasonably balanced, but the other specs are dead. merge aura traits so tempest has some diversity and improve either damage or healing of the spec instead of leaving it dead. core ele also need buffs in any trait line besides water.

[Feanor.2358]

> @"Henrik.7560" said:

> core ele/tempest need a lot of buff, weaver is not op anymore it is reasonably balanced, but the other specs are dead. merge aura traits so tempest has some diversity and improve either damage or healing of the spec instead of leaving it dead. core ele also need buffs in any trait line besides water.

 

Wrong, weaver is useless as well.

[VanWilder.6923]

Ele has lowest HP, lack of mobility, run like a 100 years old man carrying 200 kg sand bag on his back, many skills take long to finish casts or interupted and 0 dps, hard and complex rotation, suck at CC, suck at cleansing condi and now the dps is suck too. Sc shows that on Huge Idle Hitbox, Ele deals 37k dps. Reality, no mobs stand still!

 

OMG, just check out the description for Ele on Anet's website, they took out the word "Rewarding" to compensate for the squishy Ele. RIP

 

So the question to Anet is why would the GW2 players play Ele with all the disadvantage things to get same or less dps in PvE compare to other classes? What makes special about Ele? What compensate for its squishy!?

 

Why cant Anet do the balance in seperate game mode? WvW and PvP need to balance, no complain here!

But in PvE, balances and nerfs for what? Mobs complain that players are way too OP???

Suggestion, if Anet can seperate the modes and do the balance where needed. PvE players never ever ask for any kind of balance. I myself PvE player always want OP, like 1 shot to kill the kitten Arrkk

[Feanor.2358]

> @"VanWilder.6923" said:

> Sc shows that on Huge Idle Hitbox, Ele deals 37k dps.

 

Not any more. The site isn't updated these are the benchmarks prior to the MS bugfix.

[La Loutre.2960]

It's 34K now, while it needs to have chaos chronos and tactic warrior, meaning that both war and chrono deal significantly less damage, making weaver an actual deadweight as it's not able to compensate the dps loss from the supportive classes

[Feanor.2358]

> @"La Loutre.2960" said:

> It's 34K now, while it needs to have chaos chronos and tactic warrior, meaning that both war and chrono deal significantly less damage, making weaver an actual deadweight as it's not able to compensate the dps loss from the supportive classes

 

Keep in mind this is on a golem 700 units "big" (a.k.a. "huge").

 

Here are some numbers to ponder:

Samarog - 420 units

Gorseval - 250

KC - 200