Eleazar.9478 Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 Since the launch of POF ranger dagger remains by far, one of the worst weapons in the game (lol even in pve its better not to take it) , which is a shame since it is a expac sold, **"elite spec"** weapon. 1) Its a damage over time melee weapon, (slow ramp up time) Melee is and has for a while now been very risky, Especially with all the aoes and cc, haveing a weapon that cannot CC or do burst pressure already puts it a disadvantage. The fact its a bleed, poison focused weapon means that you have to build ALOT of stacks for it to tickle enemies. 2) it has zero defensive or utility skills while the leap is nice, not having a evade on it and short weak hitting leaps (with a bit of a aftercast) makes rarely useful for anything outside of smoke or lighting field (the only other elite spec weapon that has low utility holosword, is saved by shield being good and it doing crazy burst dps and the holo instant access flipover skills) 3) It has extremely poor synergy with soul-beasts line, as soul-beast buffs only power damage, the one trait it could it could synergize 6ith predators cunning barely ups its dps to a respectable level, (also it cant even proc our minor trait twice as vicious) 4) It has zero flavor with soulbeast, lets take a look at GS and war-horn on the other hand They either buff the pet or the soulbeast and have some interesting play with merging and un-merging wither to blast leap through a field or up the damage for combos. Its so uninspired, 5) Anet even knows its bad its not even in their garbage fire preset builds anymore 6) Its been weak for almost a full year and only has been buffed once, for one skill that did nothing for it Its so frustrating that rangers have been asking for that (shout out to InsaneQR and wonderouswall's dagger forums suggestions) for gunna be a year soon, Instead of Anet listening they go ham wild with buffing already strong set ups (dont get me wrong I love power ranger but id like to use d/d ranger especially given thats who they hyped soulbeast) Yo its 3 skills give it some love! PS: Yes I've tried every-type of build with dang thing the only thing i can at least get some play out of it is stacking stealth and bursting with GS even then it revolves around not using it. Ive been dusting off gw1 account and man daggers are so fun on ranger too bad they're hot garbage In the sequel. Please please I'm begging here take a look at it, It would be Christmas in July if you guys just acknowledged it and would raise my hype levels to unimaginable heights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The V.8759 Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 Allthough I aggree with you, there is already a post like this on the Ranger forum regarding reworking/improving dagger. Please go over there for future reference or discussion regarding the dagger. Kind regards, Fvux Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleazar.9478 Posted July 24, 2018 Author Share Posted July 24, 2018 > @"The V.8759" said: > Allthough I aggree with you, there is already a post like this on the Ranger forum regarding reworking/improving dagger. Please go over there for future reference or discussion regarding the dagger. > > Kind regards, > Fvux Theres like five threads on there and no asking for it in the pvp forum now its been a year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The V.8759 Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 > @"Eleazar.9478" said: > > @"The V.8759" said: > > Allthough I aggree with you, there is already a post like this on the Ranger forum regarding reworking/improving dagger. Please go over there for future reference or discussion regarding the dagger. > > > > Kind regards, > > Fvux > Theres like five threads on there and no asking for it in the pvp forum now its been a year This discussion is focussed on a design problem on the ranger, rather than balancing in PvP. Therefore it fits better in the ranger forum. The PvP community has nothing to do with this. If you really want dagger to improve, it's better to keep the feedback in one constructive discussion post, rather than spreading the discussion over multiple forum pages. This makes it easier for devs to read it and keeps it comprehensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleazar.9478 Posted July 24, 2018 Author Share Posted July 24, 2018 > @"The V.8759" said: > > @"Eleazar.9478" said: > > > @"The V.8759" said: > > > Allthough I aggree with you, there is already a post like this on the Ranger forum regarding reworking/improving dagger. Please go over there for future reference or discussion regarding the dagger. > > > > > > Kind regards, > > > Fvux > > Theres like five threads on there and no asking for it in the pvp forum now its been a year > > This discussion is focussed on a design problem on the ranger, rather than balancing in PvP. Therefore it fits better in the ranger forum. The PvP community has nothing to do with this. > If you really want dagger to improve, it's better to keep the feedback in one constructive discussion post, rather than spreading the discussion over multiple forum pages. This makes it easier for devs to read it and keeps it comprehensive. > See heres the fatal flaw in your argument, they dont do feedback, or disscusion on the ranger forums, and ive been very patient for a very long time, I do know they at least look at the pvp forums due to their constant feedback on the pvp forums. SO AS A customer I'm going to use the avenue that at least gets seen. (speaking of which ive never seen a suggestion used from the ranger forums ever. SO here I am posting it here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The V.8759 Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 > @"Eleazar.9478" said: > > @"The V.8759" said: > > > @"Eleazar.9478" said: > > > > @"The V.8759" said: > > > > Allthough I aggree with you, there is already a post like this on the Ranger forum regarding reworking/improving dagger. Please go over there for future reference or discussion regarding the dagger. > > > > > > > > Kind regards, > > > > Fvux > > > Theres like five threads on there and no asking for it in the pvp forum now its been a year > > > > This discussion is focussed on a design problem on the ranger, rather than balancing in PvP. Therefore it fits better in the ranger forum. The PvP community has nothing to do with this. > > If you really want dagger to improve, it's better to keep the feedback in one constructive discussion post, rather than spreading the discussion over multiple forum pages. This makes it easier for devs to read it and keeps it comprehensive. > > > > See heres the fatal flaw in your argument, they dont do feedback, or disscusion on the ranger forums, and ive been very patient for a very long time, I do know they at least look at the pvp forums due to their constant feedback on the pvp forums. SO AS A customer I'm going to use the avenue that at least gets seen. (speaking of which ive never seen a suggestion used from the ranger forums ever. SO here I am posting it here First of all, I've read the most recent post on the dagger on the ranged forum, and there's plently of feedback over there. You yourself have posted in there twice aswell and been that someone else even had a good idea, and now you're saying that they have bad feedback? They are giving good ideas! Aside from that, the fact that devs don't respond doesn't mean they don't see it. Screaming on a forum completely off-topic for attention is just bad forum behaviour. Try to keep yourself a bit mature and stay calm, be constructive at the right place. Simple as that. Crying out somewhere it doesn't belong isn't gonna help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleazar.9478 Posted July 24, 2018 Author Share Posted July 24, 2018 > @"The V.8759" said: > > @"Eleazar.9478" said: > > > @"The V.8759" said: > > > > @"Eleazar.9478" said: > > > > > @"The V.8759" said: > > > > > Allthough I aggree with you, there is already a post like this on the Ranger forum regarding reworking/improving dagger. Please go over there for future reference or discussion regarding the dagger. > > > > > > > > > > Kind regards, > > > > > Fvux > > > > Theres like five threads on there and no asking for it in the pvp forum now its been a year > > > > > > This discussion is focussed on a design problem on the ranger, rather than balancing in PvP. Therefore it fits better in the ranger forum. The PvP community has nothing to do with this. > > > If you really want dagger to improve, it's better to keep the feedback in one constructive discussion post, rather than spreading the discussion over multiple forum pages. This makes it easier for devs to read it and keeps it comprehensive. > > > > > > > See heres the fatal flaw in your argument, they dont do feedback, or disscusion on the ranger forums, and ive been very patient for a very long time, I do know they at least look at the pvp forums due to their constant feedback on the pvp forums. SO AS A customer I'm going to use the avenue that at least gets seen. (speaking of which ive never seen a suggestion used from the ranger forums ever. SO here I am posting it here > > First of all, I've read the most recent post on the dagger on the ranged forum, and there's plently of feedback over there. You yourself have posted in there twice aswell and been that someone else even had a good idea, and now you're saying that they have bad feedback? They are giving good ideas! > > Aside from that, the fact that devs don't respond doesn't mean they don't see it. Screaming on a forum completely off-topic for attention is just bad forum behaviour. Try to keep yourself a bit mature and stay calm, be constructive at the right place. Simple as that. Crying out somewhere it doesn't belong isn't gonna help see once again your logic flawed, HAD they ever listened to anyone there (hence i name dropped insaneqr and wonderous wall i think they have the most reasonable well thought out ideas) or said hey we got plans for it, Id stop posting and complaining about it, bu its going to be a year if they do anything about it. I know for a fact they check the pvp forums, so at the very least my issues are going to be seen, Ive been patient (lol what customer is patient for a year) I saw all the dead eye posts everywhere and then they got 2 reworks so I should just post everywhere too. ITS GOING TO BE A YEAR by the time the next balance pass is, I'm all out of patience. doing the same thing over and over again is what? so I'ma post here too especially since i have an issue with it in the pvp setting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The V.8759 Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 Sigh last post in this forum. So basicly, you're crying out loud and being off-topic because you are not getting what you want. Am I frustrated that devs are not responding much on Profession forums? Ofcourse I am sometimes. But that doesn't make me a baby to start crying on other forums. I'dd rather stay calm, even after a year, and bring up some contructive feedback on the right place. The devs do simply not owe you saying something about it. Simple as that. Now get off the PvP forums with this post, I'm not responding anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleazar.9478 Posted July 24, 2018 Author Share Posted July 24, 2018 > @"The V.8759" said: > Sigh last post in this forum. So basicly, you're crying out loud and being off-topic because you are not getting what you want. Am I frustrated that devs are not responding much on Profession forums? Ofcourse I am sometimes. But that doesn't make me a baby to start crying on other forums. I'dd rather stay calm, even after a year, and bring up some contructive feedback on the right place. > The devs do simply not owe you saying something about it. Simple as that. > Now get off the PvP forums with this post, I'm not responding anymore. Um I posted a pretty tame feedback post but I'm going to put it where I know it will be seen. Once again it's been a year. Not being happy with something for a year will drain anyone. Especially considering the trash posts in PvP this one is actual feedback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinta.8906 Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 ranger doesnt need weapons they got pets. warhorn on tempest wasnt the best either and sht in 2/3 modes still tempest was meta. same fore soulbeast. i have no problems with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleazar.9478 Posted July 24, 2018 Author Share Posted July 24, 2018 > @"shinta.8906" said: > ranger doesnt need weapons they got pets. > > warhorn on tempest wasnt the best either and kitten in 2/3 modes still tempest was meta. same fore soulbeast. i have no problems with it. What, none of what you just said makes any sense and warhorn was viable as long as you ran a healing build. If you have not problems why even comment then? A goal of balance in any game should be to bring underutilized/underpowered aspects of play to level Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinta.8906 Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 focus was in pvp viable not warhorn. you writing in pvp section here. openworld pve viability does not interest anybody. soulbeast seems to be viable doesnt mean that especs weapon needs to be too. can i help you with the part you dont understand any better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleazar.9478 Posted July 24, 2018 Author Share Posted July 24, 2018 > @"shinta.8906" said: > focus was in pvp viable not warhorn. you writing in pvp section here. openworld pve viability does not interest anybody. soulbeast seems to be viable doesnt mean that especs weapon needs to be too. can i help you with the part you dont understand any better? It did 9k heals while not the greatest in PvP (free invuln and block is always better when bunkering) it was also good in wvw, and why do you write like you do? It's a pretty painful read. Yet again if something is weak why not ask buffs your logic is just bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinta.8906 Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 by your logic you anyway played whatever you wanted and not what was meta. in that case you can play dagger just as fine as warhorn on tempest right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleazar.9478 Posted July 24, 2018 Author Share Posted July 24, 2018 > @"shinta.8906" said: > by your logic you anyway played whatever you wanted and not what was meta. in that case you can play dagger just as fine as warhorn on tempest right now. SO meta are builds that are very freakin strong, then there's builds that are not terrible hence "what is viable", dagger is beyond shit, it fills no niches for the reasons I stated above. (without experimenting and trying how can I say a weapon sucks? I would never take that thing into ranked as its not even viable (viable meaning has a chance of not completely sucking) in unranked. At least warhorn on tempest has 2 hard CCs, boon support and powerful heals. It was not meta because it couldnt compete with focus which has cleanse, blocks and a very usefull invuln and unblock-able CC. Ranger MH dagger on the other hand aint even there it offers nothing expect some very low damaging conditions, crap base power damage that dosn't scale well, a leap that has no evade and a aftercast. This cant even compete its like fat bastard trying to catch Usane bolt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenix.6198 Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 I think that dagger not being viable on soulbeast has more to do with condi soulbeast in general not being viable in pvp. Dmg wise dagger seems to be doing fine (its the prefered DPS choice in pve content I think), so DPS doesnt seem to be the issue. Its just that overall building a viable condi soulbeast spec for PvP is a very frustrating task. All the condi offhandweapons are trash (except dagger). Shortbow is useless for pvp as well and traps are meh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleazar.9478 Posted July 24, 2018 Author Share Posted July 24, 2018 > @"Zenix.6198" said: > I think that dagger not being viable on soulbeast has more to do with condi soulbeast in general not being viable in pvp. > Dmg wise dagger seems to be doing fine (its the prefered DPS choice in pve content I think), so DPS doesnt seem to be the issue. > Its just that overall building a viable condi soulbeast spec for PvP is a very frustrating task. > > All the condi offhandweapons are trash (except dagger). Shortbow is useless for pvp as well and traps are meh. Ah finally a actual comment I can discuss with as per the topic. So in pve it's actually as I posted above better to go double sb (it's only 1k dps less and a far easier rotation). Remember most of rangers condition dps comes rangers uttilities. The weapon itslef doesn't apply contitions quickly, it has a pretty high rampup time and you need expertise to even get those pve stacks rolling, Your right as condi Soulbeast is inhently weaker, but alot of it has to do with power beast only has to rely on weapon and beast mode skills for dps and has it's whole utility bar full of utility skills Also all power ranger weapons are dripping in defensive skills (warhorn is debatable but it can blast) and I'd argue unblockable is strong enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleazar.9478 Posted July 24, 2018 Author Share Posted July 24, 2018 > @"Zenix.6198" said: > I think that dagger not being viable on soulbeast has more to do with condi soulbeast in general not being viable in pvp. > Dmg wise dagger seems to be doing fine (its the prefered DPS choice in pve content I think), so DPS doesnt seem to be the issue. > Its just that overall building a viable condi soulbeast spec for PvP is a very frustrating task. > > All the condi offhandweapons are trash (except dagger). Shortbow is useless for pvp as well and traps are meh. Oh I also forgot to add that unlike power damage on ranger condition damage has very few condition modifiers (witch by picking greaty reduces essential sustain on ranger) and 2 very weak condtion application traits. While power you have so many lines that directly buff power damage it gives you alot of flexibility and you can take defensive traits without destroying your kill potential Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malisivo.5264 Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 > @"Zenix.6198" said: > I think that dagger not being viable on soulbeast has more to do with condi soulbeast in general not being viable in pvp. > Dmg wise dagger seems to be doing fine (its the prefered DPS choice in pve content I think), so DPS doesnt seem to be the issue. > Its just that overall building a viable condi soulbeast spec for PvP is a very frustrating task. > > All the condi offhandweapons are trash (except dagger). Shortbow is useless for pvp as well and traps are meh. Interesting that you mention this because, well, I use EVERYTHING that you mentioned here in my PVP build. I'm a D/D, SB condi trapper Soulbeast. ? And guess what? I LOVE my build! Who cares about viability when you can have fun? Trapper runes for stealth and super speed. Carrion amulet for that extra vitality and condi damage. Daggers for reapplication of poison and bleeds. Shortbow for mobility and CC. Traps to annoy your enemies, muhahahaha. Maybe not viable in ranked, but for unranked shenanigans? The best build to annoy your enemies with, in my very honest opinion. ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malisivo.5264 Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 @"Eleazar.9478" While I do agree that Dagger Mh needs a rework (like what is with #2? And come on, we need either an evade or some sort of AoE action, I dunno), I will still use it and find a way to defeat enemies with it. They will get to it; it may be a year, it may be less. I was surprised with the last balance patch. It made Rangers (regardless of power or condi) viable in PVP again. What do you suggest they do to rework it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleazar.9478 Posted July 25, 2018 Author Share Posted July 25, 2018 > @"malisivo.5264" said: > @"Eleazar.9478" While I do agree that Dagger Mh needs a rework (like what is with #2? And come on, we need either an evade or some sort of AoE action, I dunno), I will still use it and find a way to defeat enemies with it. They will get to it; it may be a year, it may be less. I was surprised with the last balance patch. It made Rangers (regardless of power or condi) viable in PVP again. What do you suggest they do to rework it? So my wishfully dream would be that they 1st) improve the power scaleing so it can be a true hybrid melee weapon (considering the flexibility on Soulbeast this would make alot sense) 2nd) have poison be the first condtion application in auto thus allowing a bit more of a burst especially combined with preditiors cunning (it's a bursty boi meta if you can't burst at all in melee your going to get pooped) 3rd) this is the only part I'd really ask for a true rework have skill 2 do something interesting with the mege on merge mechanic. Wishfull thinking here but it would be cool if unmerged it blocked or reflected and merged it dazed. 4th) get rid of the 4th auto chain, in any PvP senario it's highly unlikely that you'll get a chance to hit the 4th attack before breaking the chain. That's my two cents. As for why I want those changes my post explains the why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirTomato.3627 Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 MH Dagger is a meta for PvE. If everyone runs double SB, that not means that dagger is bad. Plus dagger have 2 charges of mobility with leap finisher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleazar.9478 Posted July 28, 2018 Author Share Posted July 28, 2018 > @"SirTomato.3627" said: > MH Dagger is a meta for PvE. > > If everyone runs double SB, that not means that dagger is bad. > > Plus dagger have 2 charges of mobility with leap finisher. Like how you literally just missed over my enitre post also. Also in pve it's better to run double sb you only loose about 1-3k of dps and have a incredibly easier rotation so you probably in reality will have a higher dose during boss fights. Also read the post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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