[SUGGESTION] Give Weaver F5 skill that...

[Waisenpai.6028]

SPVP or wvw only not pve post please don't get mad guys.

 

 

Issue can be resolved! Up the damage and condition amounts on Dual skills on sword, dagger or scepter. Swords the is only one that can be tanky. You are unable to cylce fast enough being a non sword weaver to have a fight of a Spell breaker, Thieves or DH, Revs, you name it. Lack of DPS pressure or condi cover makes the ow. Please give us access to posion in earth skils or dual skills since we can't boon strip, dps or apply boon corruption. Everyone loves poison it's a great since every other profession are using ele base jack of all trades ablitiys like boons but they can spam more and faster. More chain and burst damage. Please increase base damage and condi types and duration and that add a special ablity in raids that restricts these abilities. Cause nerfing eles for raid purposes outside of raids is bad. WvW gets effect by these changes so it's bad and open world content. Please make a 4th branch of build nerfing aka Raid environment so it doesn't effect us who don't raid but still need the power and condtions.

 

Please give us faster attack speed for swords, or damage or cc or gvie us access to poison in earth skills or dual skills.

With boon removal and corruption at it's maximum should you guys revert back changes applied to arcane trait line that' 15% boon duration should be 30%, Attune swap cool down should be like 30%.

 

 

[TwilightSoul.9048]

I would love the chance the OP proposed, switching from whatever to righthand fire for example takes 8s, how am I supposed to initiate in WvW with static field and follow up with either a quick reaction to healing rain or a quick powerfull action with meteor shower? I can't tell the enemy zerg to stand still for 8s (or a minimum of 4s if you have no recently switched attunements) until I'm done switching my attunements around and I can't really put the utility skill in my skill bar because then I'd be pretty much helpless whenever someone poked into the backline...

(WvW - Staff Power Weaver perspective, although right now Tempest is vastly supperior with staff since you can actually act and react with tempest)

[juno.1840]

> @TwilightSoul.9048 said:

> I would love the chance the OP proposed, switching from whatever to righthand fire for example takes 8s, how am I supposed to initiate in WvW with static field and follow up with either a quick reaction to healing rain or a quick powerfull action with meteor shower? I can't tell the enemy zerg to stand still for 8s (or a minimum of 4s if you have no recently switched attunements) until I'm done switching my attunements around and I can't really put the utility skill in my skill bar because then I'd be pretty much helpless whenever someone poked into the backline...

> (WvW - Staff Power Weaver perspective, although right now Tempest is vastly supperior with staff since you can actually act and react with tempest)

 

If you started in full air, then it's technically 4s to get to full fire (first one immediately, second one 4s later). However if you just switched to full air, then yeah 8s is right. With Arcane it's 3.5 and 7.0 seconds, but still the point is valid.

 

I'm playing WvW on a condi-tempest at the moment. It's just a better elite profession. There's little reward for the down-side of dual-attunements imho.

[Sarrs.4831]

To be honest it kinda reads like

"Here are these new, interesting and challenging mechanics for you to try to play with...

...And here's a button which lets you completely ignore them!"

 

If you don't want the dual attunement don't play weaver.

[juno.1840]

> @Sarrs.4831 said:

> To be honest it kinda reads like

> "Here are these new, interesting and challenging mechanics for you to try to play with...

> ...And here's a button which lets you completely ignore them!"

>

> If you don't want the dual attunement don't play weaver.

 

Except they already have such a button : [unravel](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unravel "https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unravel")

 

Ignoring your "don't play weaver" comment as it's completely useless. I could just as easily say "I don't like what you're saying, I'm not going to read it". Useful, right?

[Sarrs.4831]

> @juno.1840 said:

> Except they already have such a button : [unravel](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unravel "https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unravel")

 

Which has an opportunity cost that you don't seem to think exists. Unravel isn't cheap. It's *expensive* to spend a utility slot that otherwise doesn't do anything. You can't get away with that in sPvP or WvW.

 

> Ignoring your "don't play weaver" comment as it's completely useless. I could just as easily say "I don't like what you're saying, I'm not going to read it". Useful, right?

 

It's practical advice. If you want to instantly full attune to other elements, play an elite specialization that is designed to instantly full attune to other elements. Weavers are designed around dual attunements. Why would you play an elite specialization based around dual attunements if you want to ignore dual attunements?

[juno.1840]

> @Sarrs.4831 said:

> Weavers are designed around dual attunements. Why would you play an elite specialization based around dual attunements if you want to ignore dual attunements?

 

I think your point is valid, but I think the dual attunement mechanic is poorly designed as many players have already voiced*. It's unlikely that ANet will change the design at this point. So what's left? Either walk away from Weaver, or add an ancillary feature that doesn't break the design while allowing additional play styles.

 

(*) It's also true that many players really like the dual attunement design

[TwilightSoul.9048]

> @Sarrs.4831 said:

> To be honest it kinda reads like

> "Here are these new, interesting and challenging mechanics for you to try to play with...

> ...And here's a button which lets you completely ignore them!"

>

> If you don't want the dual attunement don't play weaver.

 

The thing is, the dual skills themselves aren't strong enough to make up for missing out on a well timed meteor shower or healing rain or stone wall thing (what was earth 4 called again on staff?)

We DO want dual attunement, we just don't want to cripple ourselves into a mess that can't react to anything in time. Elementalist is unfortunatly too squishy to be able to sacrifice a utility slot just to be able to play out like a weaker tempest.

[MrSilver.5269]

The global cooldown locking you out of classic spells just kills it for me. Waiting to be able to access the spell I need basically results in death for a weaver. Playing this profession is a liability. Over 2K hours played on my elementalist/tempest btw.

[juno.1840]

I guess we can close down this discussion. Response from @"Karl McLain.5604" :

 

> We had considered this at one point early on, but decided not to go with it. The weaver’s mechanic and trade offs are designed with needing to go through main-hand to off hand. We left Unravel as a unique utility option for the purpose of improving rotations or providing instant access to needed weapon skills, but did not want to embed it into the core of the specialization.

 

Source: [reddit](

"https://reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/74qjlh/path_of_fire_devs_here_ask_us_anything/do0is4r/?context=3")

 

Unrelated, I'm disappointed that Reddit seems to get more information from the Developers than the official GW2 forums. How hard would it have been for ANet to post that information above right here in this, or another, topic?

 

 

 

[TwilightSoul.9048]

> Unrelated, I'm disappointed that Reddit seems to get more information from the Developers than the official GW2 forums. How hard would it have been for ANet to post that information above right here in this, or another, topic?

 

I Agree, kinda defies the purpose of an "Official" Forum.

 

> We had considered this at one point early on, but decided not to go with it. The weaver’s mechanic and trade offs are designed with needing to go through main-hand to off hand. We left Unravel as a unique utility option for the purpose of improving rotations or providing instant access to needed weapon skills, but did not want to embed it into the core of the specialization.

 

Well, sometimes you have to accept that your decision was bad / not optimal.

The Weaver mechanic doesn't pay off in any environment where you need to act or react quickly with any 4/5 Weapon skill. Which is quite often the case with staff (since it's a two-handed weapon which tends to have it's most effective spells on 4&5) not so much with the one-handed weapons since the off-hand weapons are almost only utility on Ele (some exceptions of course). So basically you designed weaver in such a way that staff is almost always a terrible choice except when you're fighting something so incredibly predictive that you can just rinse and repeat the same rotation over and over again.

That's terribly design in my opinion. It's not a problem that some weapons suit a spec better then others but there should be up and downs to every weapon, for staff weaver (in any environment where you can't rely on a rotation) there are no upsides. In theory the dual skill are an amazing addition to staff to make the usually rather boring two-hand-weapon more exciting but in praxis you just can't act/react to anything.

Yes, to some extend you can plan out what you're gonna do and prepare accordingly but in WvW (for example) you will want to initiate a zerg fight with static field (air 5) and then follow up with either meteor shower (fire 5) or frozen ground + healing rain (water 4&5) OR if things go terribly wrong a "quick" switch to earth for magnetic aura and the stone wall thing (earth 3&4) can sometimes salvage a terrible situation.

 

So with weaver you can only do one of those, if it turns out you needed one of the other options then you pretty much might as well alt+f4.

Yes, in theory we could choose to replace one of our utilitys with unravel - but which one?

Our pirouette so we die to everything within seconds?

Lightning flash so we're a squishy annoying beacon that instantly becomes food for any preying Deadeye?

Armor of Earth, Mistform, Cleansing Fire so that we give up our last tiny bit of survivability? (The Barrier doesn't make up for that at all - I like the barrier as it is, don't get me wrong, but it doesn't replace defensive utilitys)

Nope - there really isn't anything that we could give up and still be a reasonable addition to the field.

I love playing staff tempest in a zerg, it's really satisfying to see all those meteors raining down on my enemies while they all run into my static field in despair and I would love that little bit more versatility through dual skills but unfortunatly it turned out that dual attunement as it is is more of a liability to staff weaver then anything else.

 

I really don't care how you (anet) address this problem but I do know two things:

1. Unravel is the least useful utility skill in the entire game - I'd rather use racial skills, they atleast offer defensive options (okay maybe I'm exaggerating a little bit now...)

2. Global Cooldown at 4s is okay (could be 5s in my opinion) BUT Current Attunements should be lower. Left Hand Attunement [1&2] Should be 0.5s - 1s and Right Hand Attunement [4&5] Should be 1s - 2s. (As an Example: I'm in Earth/Earth and I curently have no Cooldowns on my Attunements and then I switch to Water/Earth, then I should have 0.5s - 1s CD on Water, 1s - 2s CD on Earth and 4s - 5s CD on Fire and Air - This would make Weaver a lot more flexible and adaptable and would allow a more fluid gameplay - which is something I always enjoyed with Elementalist and Weaver should excel in that regard)

 

You may notice that point 2 would make Unravel even more useless so how about we just replace it with something more interesting? Weaver has Stances, a Stance should be something reliable yet we have no stance that grants us stability or protection against condis (condi clear / resistance) - why not add a stance that does both? Give us some Stability and Resistance and a small barrier whenever we loose all stack of stability while the stance is still running. I know that would be pretty strong so it needs a high cooldown but then we have an interesting alternative to Armor of Earth! (To prevent Armor of Earth from becoming obsolete the new stance should not have a stun break and should add fewer stacks of stability)

 

damn, so much text, so much to be ignored, wow (EDIT: it surprises me again and again how many words are beeing replaced by kittens)

Thanks for your attention whoever made it to the end o/

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

That is unfortunate. Looks like it is time to table the weaver indefinitely.

[sephiroth.4217]

 

> > Unrelated, I'm disappointed that Reddit seems to get more information from the Developers than the official GW2 forums. How hard would it have been for ANet to post that information above right here in this, or another, topic?

>

> I Agree, kinda defies the purpose of an "Official" Forum.

>

> > We had considered this at one point early on, but decided not to go with it. The weaver’s mechanic and trade offs are designed with needing to go through main-hand to off hand. We left Unravel as a unique utility option for the purpose of improving rotations or providing instant access to needed weapon skills, but did not want to embed it into the core of the specialization.

>

> Well, sometimes you have to accept that your decision was bad / not optimal.

 

 

The design is only bad to people who don't like it.

[TwilightSoul.9048]

> The design is only bad to people who don't like it.

 

Wha... what?

> Design (noun) a specification of an object, manifested by an agent, intended to accomplish goals, in a particular environment, using a set of primitive components, satisfying a set of requirements, subject to constraints - (Wikipedia)

 

Weaver is intended to be useful (I assume) in (hopefully) every environment of the game (to some extend) - which he currently is not. You can play Sword Weaver as a roamer in WvW and will quickly realise that you're outclassed by pretty much anything except ambient creatures. You can play Staff Weaver in a zerg until you realize that you did way more as tempest. (Keep in Mind I'm only talking about WvW!)

 

All that aside, I never said that I didn't like Weaver, I actually love the concept of dual attuning to combine the elements into new spells, to adapt to different situations but that's the thing, how do you swiftly adapt to a new situation when you have up to 8s cooldown just to have the neccessary skills available? There is nothing "swift" about Weaver unfortunatly.

[sephiroth.4217]

> @TwilightSoul.9048 said:

> > The design is only bad to people who don't like it.

>

> Wha... what?

> > Design (noun) a specification of an object, manifested by an agent, intended to accomplish goals, in a particular environment, using a set of primitive components, satisfying a set of requirements, subject to constraints - (Wikipedia)

>

> Weaver is intended to be useful (I assume) in (hopefully) every environment of the game (to some extend) - which he currently is not. You can play Sword Weaver as a roamer in WvW and will quickly realise that you're outclassed by pretty much anything except ambient creatures. You can play Staff Weaver in a zerg until you realize that you did way more as tempest. (Keep in Mind I'm only talking about WvW!)

>

> All that aside, I never said that I didn't like Weaver, I actually love the concept of dual attuning to combine the elements into new spells, to adapt to different situations but that's the thing, how do you swiftly adapt to a new situation when you have up to 8s cooldown just to have the neccessary skills available? There is nothing "swift" about Weaver unfortunatly.

 

Might be my play style with Weaver but I've found Weaver useful in WvW/PvP/PvE, as tempest I was reactive game play but as Weaver I'm more like an aggressive Power Thief... Don't get me wrong, its a pain when you're attuned to Fire/Air and a DE comes along but I won't blame the class for that, I'll blame myself for not having more awareness to my surroundings and not having earth in my main hand which can be quickly attuned for defensive purposes.

 

You should try running around with Earth in your main hand, this way you can switch to water for heal blasts, air for engagements or fire for damage at the click of an attunement. (Sw/D) but you get the idea, try and be prepared. Give that a shot, see if that helps, it certainly made life a lot easier for myself. As for staff, I haven't really dived much into the zerging aspect and can't really be of help there.

 

There's also Unravel to help but that skill could certainly use a buff or an extra mechanic such as stun break or reflect, just my opinion though.

[juno.1840]

> @sephiroth.4217 said:

> > @TwilightSoul.9048 said:

> > > The design is only bad to people who don't like it.

> >

> > Wha... what?

> > > Design (noun) a specification of an object, manifested by an agent, intended to accomplish goals, in a particular environment, using a set of primitive components, satisfying a set of requirements, subject to constraints - (Wikipedia)

> >

> > Weaver is intended to be useful (I assume) in (hopefully) every environment of the game (to some extend) - which he currently is not. You can play Sword Weaver as a roamer in WvW and will quickly realise that you're outclassed by pretty much anything except ambient creatures. You can play Staff Weaver in a zerg until you realize that you did way more as tempest. (Keep in Mind I'm only talking about WvW!)

> >

> > All that aside, I never said that I didn't like Weaver, I actually love the concept of dual attuning to combine the elements into new spells, to adapt to different situations but that's the thing, how do you swiftly adapt to a new situation when you have up to 8s cooldown just to have the neccessary skills available? There is nothing "swift" about Weaver unfortunatly.

>

> Might be my play style with Weaver but I've found Weaver useful in WvW/PvP/PvE. Don't get me wrong, its a pain when you're attuned to Fire/Air and a DE comes along but I won't blame the class for that, I'll blame myself for not having more awareness to my surroundings and not having earth in my main hand which can be quickly attuned for defensive purposes.

>

> You should try running around with Earth in your main hand, this way you can switch to earth for reflects, water for heal blasts, air for engagements or fire for damage at the click of an attunement. (Sw/D) but you get the idea, try and be prepared. Give that a shot, see if that helps, it certainly made life a lot easier for myself.

 

I blame you because you didn't take Unravel... that's what it's there for.

 

It's like you were playing chess, but forgot to put your Queen on the board before starting...

[Vandril.3490]

Hey folks, here's an idea. What if F5 was a toggle that changed which of your "hands" Attunements change?

 

For example...

 

Let's say you're a S/D Weaver and are currently in a Fire/Earth Dual Attunement, and you need to access the Condi Cleanse (+ minor heal) that is Dagger-5 Water - Cleansing Wave. Normally, you'd hit Water Attunement once and you'd be Water/Fire. Then, after a 4s CD, you again Attune to Water and end up Water/Water, finally allowing you to use Cleansing Wave. In short, Attunements normally replace the Main Hand Element and push the previous Main Hand (Skills 1-2) Element to the Off Hand (Skills 4-5).

 

What if an F5 skill reverses that?

 

You're that same S/D Weaver and are currently in Fire/Earth Dual Attunement, and you need to access Cleansing Wave. You hit F5 to switch which "hand" your Attunements replace elements for. You hit Water Attunement once and you end up in Earth/Water, allowing you to use Cleansing Wave immediately. You then decide it would be a good idea to CC some of the enemies hitting you, so you hit Air Attunement once and end up in Water/Air, allowing you to use Updraft immediately. Oh, you need to dish out some damage quickly while they're CCed, so you toggle F5 to turn it off, hit Fire Attunement once, and end up in Fire/Water, allowing you to use Flame Uprising (Fire Sword-2) and Twin Strike (Fire/Water Dual Sword-3).

 

In essence, this hypothetical F5 toggle would make it so Skills 4-5 have their Attunement changed first, and the previous Skills 4-5 Attunement pushed to be the new Skills 1-2 Attunement; rather than the other way around. This would retain the focus on Dual Attunement while simultaneously increasing the flexibility of Weaver without simplifying it (in fact, it makes Weaver more complicated and raises the skill ceiling slightly). And it even leaves Unravel a niche - allowing instant access the Full Attunement Skill-3 - which is something this hypothetical F5 skill can't do. It's even a lore-friendly solution, as a Weaver would certainly be able to decide which Attunement in a Dual Attunement to replace!

 

Thoughts?

[Coldtart.4785]

The big issue I have with Weaver's design is that dual attuning brings huge drawbacks for no inherent benefit. Dual attunement itself, as regularly discussed, locks you out of your 3-5 skills until you swap a second time and the global cooldown would have benefits if it was for single attunements, but with dual attunements it's entirely a drawback. The only benefit is access to dual skills, which themselves have the drawback of taking up your 3 slot.

 

Unravel, as I see it, is an admission by the developers that this system has such significant drawbacks that there needs to be a way to opt out of it, at least temporarily. The issue here is that unravel being a utility skill means it also has a drawback: taking up a utility slot that could have been used for a survival skill. The result, from a build design point of view, is that you're better off running a bunker build that never needs clutch access to skills to function. This goes rather against the stated intent of the Weaver as a damage spec.

 

I think there's already significant precedent in elite spec design for elite mechanics that have inherent drawbacks to be optional. Tempest, Chronomancer, Druid, Berserker, Herald, Soulbeast, Holosmith and Renegade all have elite mechanics that can impact on the player's ability to use regular class mechanics and all of these allow the player to choose when to use or not use them.

[Sojourner.4621]

> @juno.1840 said:

> I guess we can close down this discussion. Response from @"Karl McLain.5604" :

>

> > We had considered this at one point early on, but decided not to go with it. The weaver’s mechanic and trade offs are designed with needing to go through main-hand to off hand. We left Unravel as a unique utility option for the purpose of improving rotations or providing instant access to needed weapon skills, but did not want to embed it into the core of the specialization.

>

> Source: [reddit](

"https://reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/74qjlh/path_of_fire_devs_here_ask_us_anything/do0is4r/?context=3")

>

> Unrelated, I'm disappointed that Reddit seems to get more information from the Developers than the official GW2 forums. How hard would it have been for ANet to post that information above right here in this, or another, topic?

>

>

>

 

Many MMO games do AMAs on reddit threads as opposed to their official forums for layout purposes for any number of reasons. If you don't want to troll Reddit for your answers, it usually doesn't take long for dulfy to post an AMA summary after a reddit AMA.

[juno.1840]

Here's a though, put the dual-skill on F5. That way skill 3 isn't blocked by dual attuning. Also allows us 6 weapon skills at any one time (5 + dual). If not in dual attunement, then F5 is a nothing skill.

 

Still doesn't resolve the issues with GCD and getting off-hand attunement fast... nor does it fix Unravel as a kitten utility. It's clear ANet isn't going to move Unravel into something more useful.

[sephiroth.4217]

> @juno.1840 said:

> > @sephiroth.4217 said:

> > > @TwilightSoul.9048 said:

> > > > The design is only bad to people who don't like it.

> > >

> > > Wha... what?

> > > > Design (noun) a specification of an object, manifested by an agent, intended to accomplish goals, in a particular environment, using a set of primitive components, satisfying a set of requirements, subject to constraints - (Wikipedia)

> > >

> > > Weaver is intended to be useful (I assume) in (hopefully) every environment of the game (to some extend) - which he currently is not. You can play Sword Weaver as a roamer in WvW and will quickly realise that you're outclassed by pretty much anything except ambient creatures. You can play Staff Weaver in a zerg until you realize that you did way more as tempest. (Keep in Mind I'm only talking about WvW!)

> > >

> > > All that aside, I never said that I didn't like Weaver, I actually love the concept of dual attuning to combine the elements into new spells, to adapt to different situations but that's the thing, how do you swiftly adapt to a new situation when you have up to 8s cooldown just to have the neccessary skills available? There is nothing "swift" about Weaver unfortunatly.

> >

> > Might be my play style with Weaver but I've found Weaver useful in WvW/PvP/PvE. Don't get me wrong, its a pain when you're attuned to Fire/Air and a DE comes along but I won't blame the class for that, I'll blame myself for not having more awareness to my surroundings and not having earth in my main hand which can be quickly attuned for defensive purposes.

> >

> > You should try running around with Earth in your main hand, this way you can switch to earth for reflects, water for heal blasts, air for engagements or fire for damage at the click of an attunement. (Sw/D) but you get the idea, try and be prepared. Give that a shot, see if that helps, it certainly made life a lot easier for myself.

>

> I blame you because you didn't take Unravel... that's what it's there for.

>

> It's like you were playing chess, but forgot to put your Queen on the board before starting...

 

lmao I see Unravel as a shortcut or training wheels.... You can sacrifice your queen for the win :smirk:

[TwilightSoul.9048]

> I blame you because you didn't take Unravel... that's what it's there for.

>

> It's like you were playing chess, but forgot to put your Queen on the board before starting...

 

Taking Unravel is like shooting yourself in the knee before a boxfight but you can wear brass knuckles instead of boxing gloves during the fight.

[Kyon.9735]

Unpopular opinion: Weaver is not meant to be played as reactive as base Ele/Tempest is.

 

You know that you have 4s base CD for attunement swapping so you should always take in mind that you should never put your self in a position where you will need defensive weapon skills but not have it prepared. This is basically the skill cap for Weaver, skilled players will always prepare the proper attunements to be weaved before fully committing an action.

 

I play Sw/D and I'm having a hard time adjusting too so I usually slot in Twist of Fate as it's very useful when you get jumped. It has evasion frames and superspeed which would let you reposition yourself and it also buys time for your attunement CD so you can LF away or chain Riptide/Earthen Vortex. If it's still enough, slot in Mist Form as another panic button until you get the hang of it.

 

From my experience, the glaring problem lies with Sword's lack of damage pressure. You're usually at the losing end if you decide to trade blows which would usually force you to go defensive first before your target does.

[MyPuppy.8970]

Agreed, damage, speed, and a small range boost is all it needs for now. You can help peeling/finishing in a teamfight, but your presence isn't really a decisive factor. As it stands a gazelle is more threatening.

[DanteZero.9736]

Rather than an F5 that acts as the unravel stance, I'd rather if we had an F5 that acts as an attunement swap between main and offhand attunements. E.G. I'm in Fire/Air and I press F5 to switch to Air/Fire, if I press F5 again, it brings me back to Fire/Air. It could be on the same weaver attunement cooldowns or be slightly shorter such as 2-3 seconds. Either way, that'd make it easier for players to learn weaver rotations and combos and wouldn't render unravel stance to be nullified.