Turbin.2450 Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 everything will work. All specializations (elite and default) have bonuses for certain weapons, but do not require the use of these weapons (if the player doesn’t focus on weapon skills, he doesn’t take talents for weapons). The builds are built on talents and skills, and the role and style of play determines the weapon. the same staff at the ranger can be useful in any specie as a secondary weapon for supporting allies (yes in the druid is more effective, but as a reserve one can be without it). Here the balance is based not only on the numbers, but also on the control of the character, so that the fact that I will use the sword without choosing a reaper will not affect the balance. Many in elite specs do not use elite weapons, but use default ones. if balance problems were due to weapons, then all weapons would be attached to specks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adenin.5973 Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 > @"Turbin.2450" said: > everything will work. > All specializations (elite and default) have bonuses for certain weapons, but do not require the use of these weapons (if the player doesn’t focus on weapon skills, he doesn’t take talents for weapons). The builds are built on talents and skills, and the role and style of play determines the weapon. the same staff at the ranger can be useful in any specie as a secondary weapon for supporting allies (yes in the druid is more effective, but as a reserve one can be without it). Here the balance is based not only on the numbers, but also on the control of the character, so that the fact that I will use the sword without choosing a reaper will not affect the balance. Many in elite specs do not use elite weapons, but use default ones. if balance problems were due to weapons, then all weapons would be attached to specks Good points. But there would still be some broken stuff going on when you would just flip the switch today and enable elite spec weapons tomorrow, without chanign anything else. This would still need efforts in balancing it right and making sure nothing is broken. This would alsmo make it harder to implement future weapons and elite specs. Is there an inherit powercreep with more weapon choices? Absolutely not. But you need to be willing to put more effort into balancing stuff, to make sure that there indeed is no powercreep. And that's what Anet doesn't want to do. Problem is not with the overall idea behind more weapon choices, problem are the priorities Anet has set currently for themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 > @"Turbin.2450" said: > everything will work. > All specializations (elite and default) have bonuses for certain weapons, but do not require the use of these weapons (if the player doesn’t focus on weapon skills, he doesn’t take talents for weapons). The builds are built on talents and skills, and the role and style of play determines the weapon. the same staff at the ranger can be useful in any specie as a secondary weapon for supporting allies (yes in the druid is more effective, but as a reserve one can be without it). Here the balance is based not only on the numbers, but also on the control of the character, so that the fact that I will use the sword without choosing a reaper will not affect the balance. Mirage with 2 extra blocks and an interrupt wave which provides alacrity says hello. > @"Turbin.2450" said: > Many in elite specs do not use elite weapons, but use default ones. if balance problems were due to weapons, then all weapons would be attached to specks https://snowcrows.com/ Nearly every elite specialization uses their respected elite weapons. So your claim is already bogus for pve raids. Similar state is for fractals. https://metabattle.com/wiki/WvW Among the meta and top tier great builds, at least 2/3ds of all builds use their elite specialization weapons, the remaining have them as solid options. At this point in time I am not sure if you are an elaborate troll, or plain build naive, or both. EDIT: ah I'm sorry, you're a new forum account which decided to right off the bat start necroing an old thread and trolling. Good one, you had me going there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbin.2450 Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 https://metabattle.com/wiki/WvW please. enough elite builds with default weapons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 > @"Turbin.2450" said: > https://metabattle.com/wiki/WvW > please. enough elite builds with default weapons Meta Build using elite weapons (2/4): - Support Firebrand - Celestial Scourge The other 2 builds don;t use them because they are backline and their respective elite weapons do not have the range (Torch), or are designed for a different role (Shield). Only means that the elite weapons, while powerful, do not fit the role. Great builds (3/5): - Staff Daredevil - Med Kit Scrapper - DPS SPellbreaker With again the 2 builds which do not use the weapons simply full-filling a different role to which the weapons do not fit. Good (6/13 or 6/11 if only considering elites): - Mantra Healer - support Chrono - Burn Guard - Burn Firebrand - Ventari healer - Blood Magic Support That is without getting into optional weapons, which are listed per build. Your claim was: > @"Turbin.2450" said: > everything will work. > Many in elite specs do not use elite weapons, but use default ones. if balance problems were due to weapons, then all weapons would be attached to specks Which is plain untrue and is even more untrue when adjusted for PvE or when removing roles which the elite weapon does not work with (say back line on a 600 range or melee weapon). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbin.2450 Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 please. as I said, somewhere half uses the default weapon. as I said, the spec is chosen for the build, and the weapon for the role and style of battle. Whoever focuses on weapons, chooses the specialization he needs, who is in states and skills, chooses other specs, regardless of whether they give weapons a bonus or not. My druid for example melee, with a bow for situations where I can not approach. Druid took for selfheal, I do not take another specialization for neither weapon nor skills from there do not suit me. And for someone with default and with SB, the staff will come in handy as a secondary weapon for support, like the Med Kit engineer. In the future, the necromancer may enter the bow, I need it as a ranged weapon. The staff does not suit me well. But if I take a bow, I will have to give up the close fight with the sword Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adenin.5973 Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > @"Turbin.2450" said: > > https://metabattle.com/wiki/WvW > > please. enough elite builds with default weapons > > Meta Build using elite weapons (2/4): > - Support Firebrand > - Celestial Scourge > > The other 2 builds don;t use them because they are backline and their respective elite weapons do not have the range (Torch), or are designed for a different role (Shield). Only means that the elite weapons, while powerful, do not fit the role. > > Great builds (3/5): > - Staff Daredevil > - Med Kit Scrapper > - DPS SPellbreaker > > With again the 2 builds which do not use the weapons simply full-filling a different role to which the weapons do not fit. > > Good (6/13 or 6/11 if only considering elites): > - Mantra Healer > - support Chrono > - Burn Guard > - Burn Firebrand > - Ventari healer > - Blood Magic Support > > That is without getting into optional weapons, which are listed per build. > > Your claim was: > > @"Turbin.2450" said: > > everything will work. > > Many in elite specs do not use elite weapons, but use default ones. if balance problems were due to weapons, then all weapons would be attached to specks > > Which is plain untrue and is even more untrue when adjusted for PvE or when removing roles which the elite weapon does not work with (say back line on a 600 range or melee weapon). And yet there's a point to be made that since GW2 focusses heavily on casual open world PvE, where the majority of rangers for example still run around with a LB + Bear build, that META builds, the variety and balance of such only really concern high end Raid and Fractal CM players, an amount of ppl that is basically neglectable considering the overall playerbase. PvP is also a tiny minority of the community and nothing would stop Anet for example to let the weapon restrictions stay around in PvP. Then look at how it works out in the rest of the game and decide if they can do it for PvP. Look at a game like Warframe for example. Game heavily focusses on PvE coop or solo content. It once had raids and also a META in some sort. Yet, since almost no one played raids, they got simply deleted. No one really cared that much. Warframe wasn't balanced when it had raids, it is certainly not balanced now that it hasn't them. It still has PvP of some sort but no one really cares about that either. So there you have a pretty unbalanced PvE game, that has a massive fan and playerbase. Why? Well, at least not because it's so super balanced right? Since Warframe devs don't spend so much time on balancing and aren't really even concerned about it they can go wild with new weapons and warframes and mods. They can add entirely new systems on top of it. They have time to come up with entirely new game modes etc. But if you focus on pleasing the uber min max players that delete the game from their computer after one of their bufs gets a 10% reduction in upt ime, then yeah, you're pretty much caught in the current status quo and everything you might try and want to add is not worth the amount of time to get it to a point where the "META" ppl are okay with the balance. I think Anet should step out of their confort zone and at least start expermienting with stuff. Givce us an expermiental server and just go wild. remove weapon restriction for a month, see how it works, remove, armor restrictions, see how it works etc. But be careful, a majority of players might end up liking what comes out of it. But again, Anet has just not at all any focus on things like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 > @"Adenin.5973" said: > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > @"Turbin.2450" said: > > > https://metabattle.com/wiki/WvW > > > please. enough elite builds with default weapons > > > > Meta Build using elite weapons (2/4): > > - Support Firebrand > > - Celestial Scourge > > > > The other 2 builds don;t use them because they are backline and their respective elite weapons do not have the range (Torch), or are designed for a different role (Shield). Only means that the elite weapons, while powerful, do not fit the role. > > > > Great builds (3/5): > > - Staff Daredevil > > - Med Kit Scrapper > > - DPS SPellbreaker > > > > With again the 2 builds which do not use the weapons simply full-filling a different role to which the weapons do not fit. > > > > Good (6/13 or 6/11 if only considering elites): > > - Mantra Healer > > - support Chrono > > - Burn Guard > > - Burn Firebrand > > - Ventari healer > > - Blood Magic Support > > > > That is without getting into optional weapons, which are listed per build. > > > > Your claim was: > > > @"Turbin.2450" said: > > > everything will work. > > > Many in elite specs do not use elite weapons, but use default ones. if balance problems were due to weapons, then all weapons would be attached to specks > > > > Which is plain untrue and is even more untrue when adjusted for PvE or when removing roles which the elite weapon does not work with (say back line on a 600 range or melee weapon). > > And yet there's a point to be made that since GW2 focusses heavily on casual open world PvE, where the majority of rangers for example still run around with a LB + Bear build, that META builds, the variety and balance of such only really concern high end Raid and Fractal CM players, an amount of ppl that is basically neglectable considering the overall playerbase. > > PvP is also a tiny minority of the community and nothing would stop Anet for example to let the weapon restrictions stay around in PvP. Then look at how it works out in the rest of the game and decide if they can do it for PvP. All true, now consider that the game is not being balanced around open world but instead around challenging content and to some extent spvp. What point is there to unlock elite weapons only to leave them restricted in certain game modes making the entire balance system convoluted. So we now start not only balancing around game modes (with skill being split) we add in exclusivity of weapons. For what? What is the benefit aimed for here? Just so some players who do not understand balance can now wield their weapon of choice always? That is leaving out the increased complexity and limitations for future elite weapons since now those would too have to get balanced around always being available (with current weapons having to get re-balanced too). I'm not going to get into the entire Warframe discussion. It's a great game, if people want to play Warframe, play Warframe. The game is conceptually absolutely different to GW2 and let's not get started on unbalance since there is consistent overpowered things in that game. I've said my peace. People can continue to harp on this nonsense just like how there is people who still believe that the earth is flat. This will not come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbin.2450 Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 > @"Adenin.5973" said: > PvP is also a tiny minority of the community and nothing would stop Anet for example to let the weapon restrictions stay around in PvP. and here it is to the point. In pvp and racial skills are not available. For PvP, they may well leave the binding of the weapon (although I would not want this, but if the problem of binding is supposedly in balance, then I agree with this) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbin.2450 Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 besides, I don’t know why you decided that the bonus weapon (namely, the weapon and not the specialization and its bonuses) is stronger than the default (my DH is better distributed with the enemies in melee than with a bow), but even so, it can be balanced. You can nerf weapons themselves to default, and that would not suffer from this elite specialization, increase the bonus on this weapon +as I said earlier, not all bonus weapons can be made available, but from the old elite specialization, after adding new elite specializations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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