Why is that , that devs are so baised towards Elementalists?

[Susy.7529]

Elementalists were top dps in raid for he longest time in dpsers history (from tempests to weaver), it was time to open that spot for someone else, fair decision.

[Aigleborgne.2981]

> @"Susy.7529" said:

> Elementalists were top dps in raid for he longest time in dpsers history (from tempests to weaver), it was time to open that spot for someone else, fair decision.

 

Raids are a small part of the game where ele are babysitted by their team. They were top dps but also very fragile. Now try to play pvp, open world, or www, there you drop in a few hits and your good dps is'nt going to help you. If you start bringing some defense (utility, traits, attributs), then your DPS drop by some margin and you are usually less efficient than any other profession.

 

If it is fair than ele are doing the same damage as everybody else, then it would be fair to give ele the same sustain...

 

 

[LazySummer.2568]

> @"Nepster.4275" said:

> I think most of the people who said ele is too OP were people who wanted to play other classes in raids too, but as i seen before the big nerfs happened the LFGs were full of people asking for Weaver specifically(talking about raid and T4). The thing that ele got nerfed is because people did not let other classes in raids. Thats a sad thing but not a class problem at all, it was a community problem. Now some months after the nerf we see Deadeye on the top of the benchmarks(Mostly) still very few people playing it. So from this i would say that people were enjoyig playing ele, i mean who does not want to see meteors showering on bosses? Devs are not baised towards elementalists they just dont know how it works, as others said it before me.They clearly took the high damage skills, nerfed them and tought they did a great job, after some hours it turned out they completely killed core and tempest builds using staff and well, some player´s fun. I was enjoying ele, and i still do, I even got along with using sword now if i want DPS, but really, forcing a light armor/low health pool class into meele range is kind of dumb, isnt it? I mean DE has riffle with 1500 range, engi has granades and riffle+photon 4.So basically with ele if you want to keep safe distance you give up your damage so you can survive, if you go meele you will most likely die if the druid is doing something else and not healing the group.

> So all i wanted to say, the Dev team were not thinking what they were doing they wanted to nerf it, they did it. This is not the first occasion this happening they did the same to mirage back at the time when it was confusion based. They wanted to nerf confusion in PvP they did it. Not thinking about that MAYBE it could affect the PvE mirage builds too, took them 2-3 days while they figured out what to do to fix it. I think with ele there is a longer time for this since i think there are more devs playing mesmer than ele, i mean this is obvious

> Not saying anything about people leaving after the nerfs enjoying the class while doing very good damage is the core of enjoying the game(PVE aspect), doing very good damage but falling asleep on DE by rotating 5 buttons is taking a lot of the enjoyment

 

Not knowing how a class works and then attempting to balance it anyways is bias. Nerfing and buffing at the same time (especially pre-nerfing) every balance patch is defintely bias. Someone also pointed out double attunement boons gets a bug fix while engi overcharged shot gets tooltip adjusted is also a clear bias.

 

and less people are playing de even though it's highest dps probably because it's boring as fuck to play.

[Cifrer.6013]

> @"LazySummer.2568" said:

> suggesting LH as a melee weapon swap is like suggesting other classes should have one of their utility slots taken just to swap between melee and ranged weapons.

 

Not to disagree with the general theme of the thread, but Engineer might like a word with you. Engineers didn't even have a melee option outside of a kit before elite specs gave them melee, and now they still have to decide whether to take melee weapons or ranged and use a kit to have the option for both.

 

I'll agree that holo is overtuned currently, but a single elite spec isn't the entire class. Even if it's the most popular part.

 

I know there's no cooldown on kits, so you can swap to it and back again pretty effortlessly, but the point does stand that they have to use a utility slot to be able to do so.

[Dante.1763]

> @"Cifrer.6013" said:

> > @"LazySummer.2568" said:

> > suggesting LH as a melee weapon swap is like suggesting other classes should have one of their utility slots taken just to swap between melee and ranged weapons.

>

> Not to disagree with the general theme of the thread, but Engineer might like a word with you. Engineers didn't even have a melee option outside of a kit before elite specs gave them melee, and now they still have to decide whether to take melee weapons or ranged and use a kit to have the option for both.

>

> I'll agree that holo is overtuned currently, but a single elite spec isn't the entire class. Even if it's the most popular part.

>

> I know there's no cooldown on kits, so you can swap to it and back again pretty effortlessly, but the point does stand that they have to use a utility slot to be able to do so.

 

If there was no cooldown on Conjures and the lastest as long as you had them equipped they would be equal and the argument that conjures are meant to allow a different range option would be something i agree with, they do not, and i cannot agree with that.

[Cifrer.6013]

> @"Dante.1763" said:

> > @"Cifrer.6013" said:

> > > @"LazySummer.2568" said:

> > > suggesting LH as a melee weapon swap is like suggesting other classes should have one of their utility slots taken just to swap between melee and ranged weapons.

> >

> > Not to disagree with the general theme of the thread, but Engineer might like a word with you. Engineers didn't even have a melee option outside of a kit before elite specs gave them melee, and now they still have to decide whether to take melee weapons or ranged and use a kit to have the option for both.

> >

> > I'll agree that holo is overtuned currently, but a single elite spec isn't the entire class. Even if it's the most popular part.

> >

> > I know there's no cooldown on kits, so you can swap to it and back again pretty effortlessly, but the point does stand that they have to use a utility slot to be able to do so.

>

> If there was no cooldown on Conjures and the lastest as long as you had them equipped they would be equal and the argument that conjures are meant to allow a different range option would be something i agree with, they do not, and i cannot agree with that.

 

It's like you completely ignored the last sentence of my post...

 

Nowhere did I say that conjures are equal to kits.

[Eddbopkins.2630]

How about making conjure weapons an attunment swap? This could be cool. When u swap to fire u pull the axe swap to water pull the ice bow lighting hammer and sheild earth. Well i guess this can be a new specialization in it self and the traits will further bolster there effect like blasts feilds additions to weapon skills and damage modifiers for them as well. Idk but it juat poped in me head this idea. I think it could be something cool for ele maybe?

Edit: you can have a utility that will summon a weapon you a attuned to at your feet for your team mates to use that be a cool ting.

[Dante.1763]

> @"Cifrer.6013" said:

> > @"Dante.1763" said:

> > > @"Cifrer.6013" said:

> > > > @"LazySummer.2568" said:

> > > > suggesting LH as a melee weapon swap is like suggesting other classes should have one of their utility slots taken just to swap between melee and ranged weapons.

> > >

> > > Not to disagree with the general theme of the thread, but Engineer might like a word with you. Engineers didn't even have a melee option outside of a kit before elite specs gave them melee, and now they still have to decide whether to take melee weapons or ranged and use a kit to have the option for both.

> > >

> > > I'll agree that holo is overtuned currently, but a single elite spec isn't the entire class. Even if it's the most popular part.

> > >

> > > I know there's no cooldown on kits, so you can swap to it and back again pretty effortlessly, but the point does stand that they have to use a utility slot to be able to do so.

> >

> > If there was no cooldown on Conjures and the lastest as long as you had them equipped they would be equal and the argument that conjures are meant to allow a different range option would be something i agree with, they do not, and i cannot agree with that.

>

> It's like you completely ignored the last sentence of my post...

>

> Nowhere did I say that conjures are equal to kits.

 

No, you didnt, but thats what would make them equal to kits, sorry for my bad wording in my post!

[Cifrer.6013]

> @"Dante.1763" said:

> > @"Cifrer.6013" said:

> > > @"Dante.1763" said:

> > > > @"Cifrer.6013" said:

> > > > > @"LazySummer.2568" said:

> > > > > suggesting LH as a melee weapon swap is like suggesting other classes should have one of their utility slots taken just to swap between melee and ranged weapons.

> > > >

> > > > Not to disagree with the general theme of the thread, but Engineer might like a word with you. Engineers didn't even have a melee option outside of a kit before elite specs gave them melee, and now they still have to decide whether to take melee weapons or ranged and use a kit to have the option for both.

> > > >

> > > > I'll agree that holo is overtuned currently, but a single elite spec isn't the entire class. Even if it's the most popular part.

> > > >

> > > > I know there's no cooldown on kits, so you can swap to it and back again pretty effortlessly, but the point does stand that they have to use a utility slot to be able to do so.

> > >

> > > If there was no cooldown on Conjures and the lastest as long as you had them equipped they would be equal and the argument that conjures are meant to allow a different range option would be something i agree with, they do not, and i cannot agree with that.

> >

> > It's like you completely ignored the last sentence of my post...

> >

> > Nowhere did I say that conjures are equal to kits.

>

> No, you didnt, but thats what would make them equal to kits, sorry for my bad wording in my post!

 

No worries. I had just made my post there originally to point out that there is in fact a class that does give up a utility slot to be able to swap weapons. Just pointing out something that seemed to be missed or ignored by the person I originally quoted.

[Dante.1763]

> @"Cifrer.6013" said:

> > @"Dante.1763" said:

> > > @"Cifrer.6013" said:

> > > > @"Dante.1763" said:

> > > > > @"Cifrer.6013" said:

> > > > > > @"LazySummer.2568" said:

> > > > > > suggesting LH as a melee weapon swap is like suggesting other classes should have one of their utility slots taken just to swap between melee and ranged weapons.

> > > > >

> > > > > Not to disagree with the general theme of the thread, but Engineer might like a word with you. Engineers didn't even have a melee option outside of a kit before elite specs gave them melee, and now they still have to decide whether to take melee weapons or ranged and use a kit to have the option for both.

> > > > >

> > > > > I'll agree that holo is overtuned currently, but a single elite spec isn't the entire class. Even if it's the most popular part.

> > > > >

> > > > > I know there's no cooldown on kits, so you can swap to it and back again pretty effortlessly, but the point does stand that they have to use a utility slot to be able to do so.

> > > >

> > > > If there was no cooldown on Conjures and the lastest as long as you had them equipped they would be equal and the argument that conjures are meant to allow a different range option would be something i agree with, they do not, and i cannot agree with that.

> > >

> > > It's like you completely ignored the last sentence of my post...

> > >

> > > Nowhere did I say that conjures are equal to kits.

> >

> > No, you didnt, but thats what would make them equal to kits, sorry for my bad wording in my post!

>

> No worries. I had just made my post there originally to point out that there is in fact a class that does give up a utility slot to be able to swap weapons. Just pointing out something that seemed to be missed or ignored by the person I originally quoted.

 

Yup yup i got ya!

[Stallic.2397]

> @"Poelala.2830" said:

> Deadeye is the ultimate zero counterplay build and they didn't think this is a problem... but Riptide was? LOL.

> Anet sucks at balancing.

 

I see this complaint time and time again, but Deadeye's have counters. Reflect is their worst enemy and ele's have access to that with their Focus Weapon. I main tempest in pvp, so if I see deadeye's mark, I camp earth and wait for the burst. Reflect everything. If that doesn't do the trick, Air 4 blocks all projectiles for 6 seconds. It's not gonna defend you forever, but those two skills give enough time to burst down a glassy thief.

Honestly, as a tempest with focus, I destroy Deadeye's every time.

[NaturallyNick.4058]

I see this rebuttal time and time again, but Deadeye's main damage is unblockable. People claiming "reflects counter Deadeye," are basically saying "I am a complete newb that lives on the silver/gold boundary without knowing any actual mechanics." Regardless, only terrible Deadeyes kill themselves by targeting a reflecting character.

 

On top of that, both of ele's main projectile defense are limited to single offhand weapon with ~30 second cooldowns. The only one with a reasonable CD, Ring of Earth, is on a completely nonviable weapon and can be shot through using Death's Judgement anyways. As for Sand Squall, it's not only on a useless weapon, but also has a 30 sec CD. Again, all of these **do not** reflect unblockables.

[Stallic.2397]

> @"NaturallyNick.4058" said:

> I see this rebuttal time and time again, but Deadeye's main damage is unblockable. People claiming "reflects counter Deadeye," are basically saying "I am a complete newb that lives on the silver/gold boundary without knowing any actual mechanics." Regardless, only terrible Deadeyes kill themselves by targeting a reflecting character.

>

 

So i'm a newb and the deadeyes I fight are only the terrible ones? Lol, any other exaggerated assumptions?

 

Blockable or unblockable, it's not gonna kill a tempest, especially if you spec stone heart. You're taking away their crit, reflecting their damage (or most, if their nigh on unblockable as you say) and then destroying projectiles in air. Plus, all you need to do is spam Aoe's which tempest does anyway. All thiefs/deadeyes would run away or attack someone else (path of least resistance)

 

That's how you counter.

 

[NaturallyNick.4058]

I think you've shown you have no idea what you're talking about or that you're getting all of your experience from the lowest tiers.

 

12-18 seconds of "projectile hate" (if you spec imbued melodies and aftershock) that can be summarily ignored by unblockables leaves 12-20 seconds of down time. A Deadeye can down you in 10 or less. Running earth tree in PvP, even on a tempest? Using PbAoE that require you to channel for 4 seconds vs a deadeye? Pretending that he has to sit on point with you instead of set up camp in a no-teleport spot and time his shots in between your reflects (or just use death's judgement)?

 

This is a farce put on by someone who just wants to justify their poor decision of picking Tempest.

[Stallic.2397]

> @"NaturallyNick.4058" said:

> I think you've shown you have no idea what you're talking about or that you're getting all of your experience from the lowest tiers.

>

> 12-18 seconds of "projectile hate" (if you spec imbued melodies and aftershock) that can be summarily ignored by unblockables leaves 12-20 seconds of down time. A Deadeye can down you in 10 or less. Running earth tree in PvP, even on a tempest? Using PbAoE that require you to channel for 4 seconds vs a deadeye? Pretending that he has to sit on point with you instead of set up camp in a no-teleport spot and time his shots in between your reflects (or just use death's judgement)?

>

> This is a farce put on by someone who just wants to justify their poor decision of picking Tempest.

 

You've created an entire situation that I would never use, so to answer that, no-because all of that is absurd. But you've must have known that before you even pressed "post comment". I don't spec imbued melodies or aftershock.

A deadeye can down you in 10 sec? not if you're using earth 4 reflect, then obsidian flesh, then switch to air and use Air 4, that's already 12 sec and that's just weapon defense. Nothing specc'ed yet.

Running Stone Heart in pvp will reduce the dmg from a deadeye, and Overloading gives you another reflect.

And why would i fight a Deadeye who's in a no-teleport spot? You're probably dying to Deadeye's cause you're playing to all their advantages. What about LoS?

 

The point I was making in the first comment is that there are counters to Deadeye, rather than the zero counters that was reported. Tempest is a perfect counter to Deadeye, especially when wearing Focus.

[NaturallyNick.4058]

> @"NaturallyNick.4058" said:

> I think you've shown you have no idea what you're talking about or that you're getting all of your experience from the lowest tiers.

>

> 12-18 seconds of "projectile hate" (if you spec imbued melodies and aftershock) that can be summarily ignored by unblockables **leaves 12-20 seconds of down time.** A Deadeye can down you in 10 or less.

 

So with 12-20 seconds of "kill you" time under ideal, max projectile hate scenarios, a Deadeye only needs a fraction of that to down you.

 

Your skill is questionable and your reading comprehension is worse.

 

>@"Stallic.2397" said:

>Tempest is a perfect counter to Deadeye, especially when wearing Focus.

 

This is blatantly untrue and demonstrates a startling lack of game sense.

[Stallic.2397]

> @"NaturallyNick.4058" said:

> > @"NaturallyNick.4058" said:

> > I think you've shown you have no idea what you're talking about or that you're getting all of your experience from the lowest tiers.

> >

> > 12-18 seconds of "projectile hate" (if you spec imbued melodies and aftershock) that can be summarily ignored by unblockables **leaves 12-20 seconds of down time.** A Deadeye can down you in 10 or less.

>

> So with 12-20 seconds of "kill you" time under ideal, max projectile hate scenarios, a Deadeye only needs a fraction of that to down you.

>

> Your skill is questionable and your reading comprehension is worse.

>

> >@"Stallic.2397" said:

> >Tempest is a perfect counter to Deadeye, especially when wearing Focus.

>

> This is blatantly untrue and demonstrates a startling lack of game sense.

 

Haha, you mad bro?

 

You're so hung up on projectile hate, even though I gave other counters besides just "projectile hate" that would fight a Deadeye. But whatever, you're thoroughly convinced you're right. Have fun dying to Deadeyes, cause out of the two of us, it's only you...

[NaturallyNick.4058]

Of course I'm right. You talk like you've never made it out of silver, so it's no wonder you aren't playing any halfway decent deadeyes. That said, I'm sure it must be nice so more power to you.

[LazySummer.2568]

> @"Stallic.2397" said:

> The point I was making in the first comment is that there are counters to Deadeye, rather than the zero counters that was reported. Tempest is a perfect counter to Deadeye, especially when wearing Focus.

 

the 0 counterplay that poster is referring to is likely stealth spam and reveal removal, not the projectiles from deadeye. firebrands are pretty good against deadeyes too with their projectile hate, but it's not just the projectiles from deadeyes, it's about them being able to basically get out of jail for free every time and repeatedly hit you with high burst any time they choose to. Good deadeyes are also highly mobile and can hop between points to one shot people from stealth. You cant just chase them either because of the stealth.

 

[Sylosi.6503]

They aren't biased against elementalists (which is what I assume you mean), overall ele has fared pretty well over the course of the game, I mean you can argue Mesmer has fared better, but other than that, ele has been with guard and warrior as one of the 'favoured' classes.

 

On the other hand classes like ranger, engy, thief, etc have overall fared far worse than ele over the last 6 years when considering all 3 game modes.