Achievement Points

[OriOri.8724]

This is my response to what @"Mike Zadorojny.7058" said in the "Achievement Points" thread in the LWS4E4 subforum. I wanted to reply to him inthat thread, but missed the ridiculously tiny window of time that it was open for responses (seriously, can those at least be open for 24 hours so people have a chance to play the episode around work and then ask questions?). I apologize in advance if this isn't allowed, but I have no other way to reply to him.

 

What Mike said was:

 

>@"Mike Zadorojny.7058" Living World Episodes are given a range of achievement points to distribute throughout the episode. Our goal is not to blow out the point totals that players can earn between releases. This does constrain us to sometimes imbalanced point totals for various tasks. APs aren't the only reward on an achievement however, so sometimes that gets balanced around whether or not it is "required" for meta achievement completion, or just a bonus, or they'll have unique rewards. It is our goal to prevent rapid inflation of players' achievement point totals.

>Thanks!

 

I understand what you said here, but I think its still very flawed reasoning. AP were inflated by LWS1. Everything after that has been a pittance of what LWS1 threw out like candy to people. There's no need to punish everyone because when the game released you guys were so carefree with giving out AP. Even if you disagree though, a lot of players, maybe even most players, have problems with how little AP is handed out for achievements that can be quite arduous to complete. Core tyria jumping puzzles give 10 ap each, and the vast majority are easy jumping puzzles. LWS3 and HoT jumping puzzles give out 1 AP, despite being SIGNIFICANTLY harder, and usually longer, to complete, and some of them give a mastery point. But its not like we are at such a loss for mastery points that we have to complete jumping puzzles for them. Collections that can take hundreds of gold, or just a really long-ass time, or both, to complete will give out 1-5 AP when we finish them. Killing legendary bosses will give out 1ap, if anything. Its just not at all representative of the amount of work that is required to earn these achievements.

 

Another Dev in that thread mentioned how they are aware that AP for a lot of achievements in "recent" releases has been lacking, and they try to make up for it with other rewards. Sometimes these are skins, sometimes its titles, sometimes its another item. That's fine with me. But there are still tons of achievements that give 1-3 AP and nothing else. Still tons of achievements that have 2-4 tiers but only the last tier gives AP. This, again, is not ok.

 

Look, I understand the reason you gave. But think about it from a players perspective. These releases come out every 2.5-3.5 months. Daybreak had 143 AP tied to the map (there was another 100 something for the raid, and 9 ap for the legendary ring). A bug in the system came with 112 AP. Long live the lich had 124 AP tied to the map. Even if you doubled the AP allotment to each episode just for the map/story achievements (ie, everything that goes under that Map's section in the achievement panel), it would still take almost a year to get another 1,000 AP, from living world releases. And that's for players that are completionists, the average player wouldn't hit that.

 

That's hardly the "blowing out the point totals" that you claim it would be, yet it would address so many complaints that players have been making since before HoT dropped about achievements that give pitiful amounts of AP. At the very least it would mean that no achievement outside of story instance completion and mastery points would give only a single AP.

 

Just think about it Mike. This isn't that absurd of a request. And I really think that the people in charge at Anet don't get it, because this is 2 directors now who just look at our complaints and do nothing, and then you come in and say its to "prevent blowing out the point totals for AP", which is a pretty sad excuse.

 

Again, @"Gaile Gray.6029" I apologize if this isn't allowed, but by the time I got home today, the thread was locked, along with that entire subforum, so I had no other place to put my response to him, but I felt it needed to be said to the devs regardless.

[Mikal Dynath.6195]

I don’t know how to give this more than one thumbs up.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> this is 2 directors now who just look at our complaints and do nothing

Not doing what some people want isn't the same thing as "doing nothing." Not everyone thinks it's a good idea to inflate AP totals for no other reason than that people think that AP gain should follow some arbitrary growth chart.

 

If it turns out that there was too much AP awarded when the game was young, there's a good reason not to compound the problem by offering excess amounts in LS4 or LS5.

 

I have nothing against more AP. I'm sure that would help me more than it would lots of others. I just disagree with claims that the current levels are "not ok" or that 'everyone' cares whether it changes or not.

 

****

One approach that ANet could take is to increase the amount of AP available per year so it's on par with 2012-2013, and spread out the AP chests. Instead of being awarded every 500 points, it could be every 1000 or even 2000, perhaps starting at 15k (the amount we get by maxing dailies) or 20k. This way, new players would hit the same plateaus that veterans hit, only much more quickly than before. And veterans would earn lots of AP, but it wouldn't impact the high-AP rewards much, allowing ANet time to figure out what the post-pinnacle weapon rewards are going to be.

 

I don't love this idea, because it has the appearance of a penalty, in that it raises the bar for total AP. It also inflates the amount of AP that everyone gets, so those who eke out every point will ends up with relatively less of an advantage over those who just wander around picking up AP from stories. But ... those are just my preferences. Perhaps more people would prefer to see higher personal totals, even if the rewards rollout at about the same speed.

 

I mostly mention this idea because I suspect that the real issue isn't AP, it's the rewards contained in the AP chest. I think some people really want to finish these sets (not that I can blame them) and the current system makes it seem like it will be years and years before it's possible. If that is the main stumbling block, then are other ways to address that rather than micromanaging AP.

 

****

I personally don't think the game needs more AP. I think it would benefit more by having more stuff to do, whether or not there's any AP to go along with it.

[miraude.2107]

There are some things that I think should reward an actual amount of AP that don't, like stopping the Inquest during the let line events. I missed the peak where everyone was doing it. It's nice that the beetle mount made chasing the ley line guy doing current....until everyone has the mount. I really would like to see recurring events like that get some AP love. It just makes no sense to leave them in game yet give not enough reward for people to do them again. The best route to me would be to find the events that no one is doing or add more. Like a recurring achievement for killing executioners after downing the bandit guys or another for consistently stopping the Inquest from getting ley energy. You still get people doing the Joko invasions because of the rewards, why not look into sprucing up the other current events?

I say this mostly because I have a fear of them being removed in a future update much like lws1 was or they wind up like some events that are bugged.

[Vavume.8065]

I agree, these 1 AP story achievements are a slap in the face, when during a festival for example I could get 25 AP for just donating a small amount of gold to hoho tron, the inconsistency is just mind boggling.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"OriOri.8724" said:

> Daybreak had 143 AP tied to the map (there was another 100 something for the raid, and 9 ap for the legendary ring). A bug in the system came with 112 AP. Long live the lich had 124 AP tied to the map. Even if you doubled the AP allotment to each episode just for the map/story achievements (ie, everything that goes under that Map's section in the achievement panel), it would still take almost a year to get another 1,000 AP, from living world releases. And that's for players that are completionists, the average player wouldn't hit that.

 

Those were the story journal AP only, plus you didn't add the AP from Path of Fire itself. From the release of Path of Fire in September 2017 and up to Long Live the Lich (June 2018) we got a total of 1503 AP, excluding the festivals, Shadow of the Mad King (2017), Wintersday (2017) and Super Adventure Festival (2018), which are really hard to calculate because Arenanet didn't add the year number on those historical achievements and it's hard to find out which one was on which year.

That's about 167 AP per month on average.

 

Btw, LSW1 gave us 3426 Historical AP from the living world episodes themselves, the rest of the AP given out during Season 1 are either Festival AP or Permanent AP (collections, fractals, bosses and so on) available to everyone. A new player misses "only" those 3.4k AP from Season 1 (and the festivals, but those continue to be one-time only so it's irrelevant)

[Randulf.7614]

It is unfortunate that they feel the need to budget every episode. None of their reasoning was couched in any logic or consistency whatsoever. It needs to change and ideally with a retroactive boost to all ls4 points

[Cyninja.2954]

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > @"OriOri.8724" said:

> > Daybreak had 143 AP tied to the map (there was another 100 something for the raid, and 9 ap for the legendary ring). A bug in the system came with 112 AP. Long live the lich had 124 AP tied to the map. Even if you doubled the AP allotment to each episode just for the map/story achievements (ie, everything that goes under that Map's section in the achievement panel), it would still take almost a year to get another 1,000 AP, from living world releases. And that's for players that are completionists, the average player wouldn't hit that.

>

> Those were the story journal AP only, plus you didn't add the AP from Path of Fire itself. From the release of Path of Fire in September 2017 and up to Long Live the Lich (June 2018) we got a total of 1503 AP, excluding the festivals, Shadow of the Mad King (2017), Wintersday (2017) and Super Adventure Festival (2018), which are really hard to calculate because Arenanet didn't add the year number on those historical achievements and it's hard to find out which one was on which year.

> That's about 167 AP per month on average.

>

> Btw, LSW1 gave us 3426 Historical AP from the living world episodes themselves, the rest of the AP given out during Season 1 are either Festival AP or Permanent AP (collections, fractals, bosses and so on) available to everyone. A new player misses "only" those 3.4k AP from Season 1 (and the festivals, but those continue to be one-time only so it's irrelevant)

 

This right here. Glad some one did the math/research since I was to lazy myself.

 

The "huge" discrepancie new players see in their achievement points versus veterans are Not Living World Season 1 related. They are from daily login AP which are capped at 15k. Yes it will take close to 4 years to catch up on those, but catch up you can.

 

I doubt Arenanet is going to speedup the process of gaining daily AP since those are ment as longterm motivators.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > > @"OriOri.8724" said:

> > > Daybreak had 143 AP tied to the map (there was another 100 something for the raid, and 9 ap for the legendary ring). A bug in the system came with 112 AP. Long live the lich had 124 AP tied to the map. Even if you doubled the AP allotment to each episode just for the map/story achievements (ie, everything that goes under that Map's section in the achievement panel), it would still take almost a year to get another 1,000 AP, from living world releases. And that's for players that are completionists, the average player wouldn't hit that.

> >

> > Those were the story journal AP only, plus you didn't add the AP from Path of Fire itself. From the release of Path of Fire in September 2017 and up to Long Live the Lich (June 2018) we got a total of 1503 AP, excluding the festivals, Shadow of the Mad King (2017), Wintersday (2017) and Super Adventure Festival (2018), which are really hard to calculate because Arenanet didn't add the year number on those historical achievements and it's hard to find out which one was on which year.

> > That's about 167 AP per month on average.

> >

> > Btw, LSW1 gave us 3426 Historical AP from the living world episodes themselves, the rest of the AP given out during Season 1 are either Festival AP or Permanent AP (collections, fractals, bosses and so on) available to everyone. A new player misses "only" those 3.4k AP from Season 1 (and the festivals, but those continue to be one-time only so it's irrelevant)

>

> This right here. Glad some one did the math/research since I was to lazy myself.

>

> The "huge" discrepancie new players see in their achievement points versus veterans are Not Living World Season 1 related. They are from daily login AP which are capped at 15k. Yes it will take close to 4 years to catch up on those, but catch up you can.

>

> I doubt Arenanet is going to speedup the process of gaining daily AP since those are ment as longterm motivators.

 

I went to calculate the festivals too, including the Festival of the Four Winds (2018) it's a very good total of 1288 AP, combined with the 1503 AP we got from the Living World plus Path of Fire, we have a total of 2791 AP in 12 months. That's a far cry from the OP's claim that they'd need "over a year" to get 1000 AP. Yes they said "from living world releases" but that's not the only source of AP

 

If we include A Star to Guide us, just the Story + Raid is 217 AP which brings us above 3000 AP in one year, we also got new collections and maybe not all achievements show on the API yet.

[Glider.5792]

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > > > @"OriOri.8724" said:

> > > > Daybreak had 143 AP tied to the map (there was another 100 something for the raid, and 9 ap for the legendary ring). A bug in the system came with 112 AP. Long live the lich had 124 AP tied to the map. Even if you doubled the AP allotment to each episode just for the map/story achievements (ie, everything that goes under that Map's section in the achievement panel), it would still take almost a year to get another 1,000 AP, from living world releases. And that's for players that are completionists, the average player wouldn't hit that.

> > >

> > > Those were the story journal AP only, plus you didn't add the AP from Path of Fire itself. From the release of Path of Fire in September 2017 and up to Long Live the Lich (June 2018) we got a total of 1503 AP, excluding the festivals, Shadow of the Mad King (2017), Wintersday (2017) and Super Adventure Festival (2018), which are really hard to calculate because Arenanet didn't add the year number on those historical achievements and it's hard to find out which one was on which year.

> > > That's about 167 AP per month on average.

> > >

> > > Btw, LSW1 gave us 3426 Historical AP from the living world episodes themselves, the rest of the AP given out during Season 1 are either Festival AP or Permanent AP (collections, fractals, bosses and so on) available to everyone. A new player misses "only" those 3.4k AP from Season 1 (and the festivals, but those continue to be one-time only so it's irrelevant)

> >

> > This right here. Glad some one did the math/research since I was to lazy myself.

> >

> > The "huge" discrepancie new players see in their achievement points versus veterans are Not Living World Season 1 related. They are from daily login AP which are capped at 15k. Yes it will take close to 4 years to catch up on those, but catch up you can.

> >

> > I doubt Arenanet is going to speedup the process of gaining daily AP since those are ment as longterm motivators.

>

> I went to calculate the festivals too, including the Festival of the Four Winds (2018) it's a very good total of 1288 AP, combined with the 1503 AP we got from the Living World plus Path of Fire, we have a total of 2791 AP in 12 months. That's a far cry from the OP's claim that they'd need "over a year" to get 1000 AP. Yes they said "from living world releases" but that's not the only source of AP

>

> If we include A Star to Guide us, just the Story + Raid is 217 AP which brings us above 3000 AP in one year, we also got new collections and maybe not all achievements show on the API yet.

 

When it comes to festivals, we will most likely not recieve any new ap from the upcoming ones, hopefully im wrong here. The problem here now imo is that, the next expac is nowhere near in sight, most likely between 1.5 - 2 years away. Due to that the "yearly" ap will decrease for the upcoming year insanely. No new expac, no new festival achis, only LS episodes, which do not bring that much. If we will get a new episode every 3 months, then in the upcoming year we will most likely only get around 1k extra ap (which is INSANELY low).

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"Glider.5792" said:

> When it comes to festivals, we will most likely not recieve any new ap from the upcoming ones, hopefully im wrong here. The problem here now imo is that, the next expac is nowhere near in sight, most likely between 1.5 - 2 years away. Due to that the "yearly" ap will decrease for the upcoming year insanely. No new expac, no new festival achis, only LS episodes, which do not bring that much. If we will get a new episode every 3 months, then in the upcoming year we will most likely only get around 1k extra ap (which is INSANELY low).

 

Upcoming festivals will continue giving AP, the yearly AP will most likely not return though, because they are supposed to be finished over multiple years. The latest Shadow of the Mad King gave us 88 AP from the festival itself (which will return in the future) and 325 AP from the yearly ones.

This is how many AP the different iterations of Halloween has given us so far:

2012: 116

2013: 107

2014: 124

2015: 64

2016: 64

2017: 88 (plus the 325 "yearly" AP)

In 2014 they gave us 36 more AP than 2017, which means with the yearly ones it would take 9 years to reach the same average point. So maybe in 9 years they will re-introduce the yearly AP? Who knows and I don't think anyone has planned for that far away. And that's comparing the 2017 version with the highest rewarding 2014 version, if we take the average of 95 (just 7 more from 2017) that 325 yearly AP will "last" for... 46 years. In terms of festival AP we are fine.

 

The "average" during the Heart of Thorns period was 148 AP per month, the average during Path of Fire is 167 AP per month (excluding festivals on both) so it looks like the amount of AP we are getting per month is increasing as time goes on. A Star to Guide Us added at least 217 AP, the highest any episode has added so far.

[Malediktus.9250]

I think Anet's reasoning behind this is pretty silly. Why do we have to have a budget for APs, why do we have to chose between quantity of achievements and amount of rewards you get per achievement.

It seems like the AP rewards could infinitely be expanded. So it just comes down to Anet not willing to spend any resources on expanding the most longterm reward system the game has to offer. The AP armor sets look like stuck in 2012 anyway, so they really should be either reworked or new sets for even higher AP thresholds.

 

It is also insulting that 15k AP come from doing trivial dailies, that is at least 100 LS episodes/raids worth of points...

[Urud.4925]

I personally try to complete achievements because I like to fully close a tab in the panel, even if I already got the reward (i.e. the Shatterer). I spent many hours to take gold in all the HoT adventures (I think they're worth 1-2 AP each) and I have to spend hundreds of gold to complete some very silly achievement (some mini costs 140 gold...). I don't care about the gap that I have to recover because I only started to do dailies 1-2 years ago, although I'd like to recover the LW1 ones.

 

I think that being rewarded with less AP for particularly annoying achievements, is a good thing for new players: this won't impact so much if they decide to skip them because too hard/expensive. If you are a veteran player who cares about AP, even few APs could be important for you, so you'll try hard to get the m. But if you are new/casual, you won't be too behind because even with only the easiest achievements, you'll have a decent amount of APs.

[OriOri.8724]

@"maddoctor.2738" You seem to be misquoting me. I said that it would take almost a year, not over a year, to reach 1,000 AP just from LW releases. I deliberately left out festivals because the majority of their AP is a one time thing. You do it one year, you can't get it the next except for the much more limited AP from the infinite festival achievements. I also left festivals out because I feel that festival achievements reward AP that is appropriate, and in some cases quite generous, for the amount of work put in. I also did not count PoF release itself as that is an expansion release, one that comes every few years as opposed to every 2-3 months like living world. Its important distinctions to make. I did not mean to imply that we can only get 1,000 AP a year. But rather from living world releases, it would take almost a year to get 1,000 AP even if the amount we got were doubled.

 

Furthermore. To put some more context on this. Assume all LW AP was doubled. At around 130 AP per living world release in LWS4 on average, it would still take us 4 releases to see less than an extra 600 AP. This is probably the number I should have put in my original post, but I was very tired when I wrote it. I understand that you don't agree with me, but please do try to understand the argument I made, as opposed to the one that you think you read originally.

 

As to how much total AP LWS1 gave out. I'm not trying to compare totals from LWS3 and LWS4 to LWS1. I'm trying to compare the amount of AP we are getting from individual achievements per the amount of work required to get them. It just doesn't feel fun to go through a ton of work to get an achievement and only get 1 AP out of it, not even a skin/title/ or other item with it. I realize not everyone agrees with this, but I never claimed the entire playerbase did. However, I have seen lots of complaints over the years I've been playing about how little AP is given out for effort put in

[Hesacon.8735]

I'll never get the LW1 AP because I started after LW2 ended and before HoT began.

[OriOri.8724]

I appreciate your insights, but I do have to disagree on some points.

 

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > this is 2 directors now who just look at our complaints and do nothing

> Not doing what some people want isn't the same thing as "doing nothing." Not everyone thinks it's a good idea to inflate AP totals for no other reason than that people think that AP gain should follow some arbitrary growth chart.

>

> If it turns out that there was too much AP awarded when the game was young, there's a good reason not to compound the problem by offering excess amounts in LS4 or LS5.

>

 

Well that's close to the heart of my argument. I think the current AP given for LW releases is so small that even doubling it is not offering it in excess. I forgot to put this in the original post, but each LWS4 release has had about 130 AP on average (living world AP, raids and festivals are separate because I think their AP rewards are more in line with the effort required to get the achievements). So, even if the amount of AP given out for LW releases was doubled, it would still take 4 LW releases to give out less than 600 extra AP to players. I do not think that counts as giving AP out in excess. Though I think that some confusion may come from that others, and possibly yourself, thought I meant to double ALL AP given out. This is not the case. Just LW AP.

 

> I have nothing against more AP. I'm sure that would help me more than it would lots of others. I just disagree with claims that the current levels are "not ok" or that 'everyone' cares whether it changes or not.

>

 

I never did claim that everyone cared, just that a lot of players do.

 

One last thing about dailies and their 15,000 AP cap. I think there is some confusion among people in this thread simply because of the fact dailies were even brought up. I'm, not trying to bridge any gap between newer players and veteran players. I don't care about the cap on dailies. This is 100% just my reply/comments on how much AP we are given in LW achievements for the amount of work put into them. It affects all players equally, and is not meant to bridge any AP gap whatsoever. Just trying to make the achievements feel worth it for the time/effort investment that a lot of them have.

 

And by no means do AP totals have to be doubled for LW releases. I merely chose that as an example to illustrate that "worst case", AP totals are not going to be blown out. I just want achievements in LW releases to give out AP that is appropriate to the amount of time/effort it takes to get them when they only give AP. If they give a title/item then they are already fine in my opinion, but its not feasible to do that for all 1AP achievements. The better approach is to increase how much AP they give out to an amount that reflects the effort required to get them.

[Reverielle.3972]

Honestly I think AP should be invisible to all, that would solve a lot of perceived problems players have about being behind and unfair distributions. It's an entirely personal thing anyways, and having it private (i.e not having it on Friends and Contacts, or when you mouse-over players in your group/squad) would stop a lot of the judgement based on AP, which is sadly; _"You have so much AP, why are you so bad at this?"_ or _"Kick them they only have such-and-such AP"_ and _"You only have such-and-such AP, and you're telling ME what to do?"_

 

I know some like to show off how much AP they have, and that is fine; we have specific rewards and titles that can do that. But really having it visible is just another means of separating players in the community. Personally I think there should be efforts made almost always to make the player-base feel 'as one'; a community. Not give them means to segregate.

[OriOri.8724]

> @"Reverielle.3972" said:

> Honestly I think AP should be invisible to all, that would solve a lot of perceived problems players have about being behind and unfair distributions. It's an entirely personal thing anyways, and having it private (i.e not having it on Friends and Contacts, or when you mouse-over players in your group/squad) would stop a lot of the judgement based on AP, which is sadly; _"You have so much AP, why are you so bad at this?"_ or _"Kick them they only have such-and-such AP"_ and _"You only have such-and-such AP, and you're telling ME what to do?"_

>

> I know some like to show off how much AP they have, and that is fine; we have specific rewards and titles that can do that. But really having it visible is just another means of separating players in the community. Personally I think there should be efforts made almost always to make the player-base feel 'as one'; a community. Not give them means to segregate.

 

That's a separate issue though. I will stress, again, that the point of this is not to bridge the AP gap between newer players and veterans. Its just to have achievements give out AP equivalent to how much effort is required to get the achievement.

[Reverielle.3972]

> @"OriOri.8724" said:

> > @"Reverielle.3972" said:

> > Honestly I think AP should be invisible to all, that would solve a lot of perceived problems players have about being behind and unfair distributions. It's an entirely personal thing anyways, and having it private (i.e not having it on Friends and Contacts, or when you mouse-over players in your group/squad) would stop a lot of the judgement based on AP, which is sadly; _"You have so much AP, why are you so bad at this?"_ or _"Kick them they only have such-and-such AP"_ and _"You only have such-and-such AP, and you're telling ME what to do?"_

> >

> > I know some like to show off how much AP they have, and that is fine; we have specific rewards and titles that can do that. But really having it visible is just another means of separating players in the community. Personally I think there should be efforts made almost always to make the player-base feel 'as one'; a community. Not give them means to segregate.

>

> That's a separate issue though. I will stress, again, that the point of this is not to bridge the AP gap between newer players and veterans. Its just to have achievements give out AP equivalent to how much effort is required to get the achievement.

I understand what you're saying, but I'm not so sure. The suggestions (yours now and previous ones over the years) are all about comparison and that comes in many forms, which I don't believe are mutually exclusive. There is a saying which is quite apt here I believe: _"Comparison is the Thief of Happiness"_. However it's unrealistic to expect comparisons not to be made, so perhaps just a different perspective would help. Try not to look at it as the new achievements not providing as much AP as the old ones, but as the alternative: the older/original ones give a nice bonus of AP compared to what they 'should have'.

 

At the end of the day the Achievements List in our Hero Panel is primarily there for one thing I believe: To provide us with a guide to basically all of the content that is available in a particular zone/area/release/etc. I think most of us realise it's become more or less a glorified quest journal over the years. How much, or little, AP we get for experiencing such content in the game is just a happy bonus. It's not intended to be the focus, that much is clearly evident from AP value assigned these days, which is in keeping with development guidelines.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"OriOri.8724" said:

> But rather from living world releases, it would take almost a year to get 1,000 AP even if the amount we got were doubled.

 

Which is hardly relevant if we get 3000+ real AP in a year. If they increased the other methods of AP (the living world) then they'd have to reduce the amount you get from expansions or festivals (to keep their "budget" stable). It's the overall AP in a year that counts, as that's what would force them to create new AP rewards for higher numbers. Which is I suppose why they are not adding more AP to begin with, so they don't have to spend effort to create rewards for them.

 

> Assume all LW AP was doubled. At around 130 AP per living world release in LWS4 on average, it would still take us 4 releases to see less than an extra 600 AP.

 

This part is important:

> It is our goal to prevent rapid inflation of players' achievement point totals.

 

You are thinking of individual achievements, they are thinking of all of them as a whole. The question is if 3000 AP in a year is "enough" or not. Notice that if they awarded more AP per achievement, to keep the total number stable, they'd need to offer less achievements.

[Randulf.7614]

Why do they need to offer less? There is no lgical reason for it to be deemed unstable by offering say 500 or even 1000 ap per episode. They are pretty much free to up the limit to no negative cost.

[WhatLiesBeneath.9018]

This Episode however has 193 AP at the moment, might be more hidden ones. Which is like 70 more then last Episode. So I’m quite satisfied this time.

[Glider.5792]

> @"WhatLiesBeneath.9018" said:

> This Episode however has 193 AP at the moment, might be more hidden ones. Which is like 70 more then last Episode. So I’m quite satisfied this time.

 

This is due to Sun's Reffuge. Unless next episode will also have a ton of new collections, it will give waaaay less ap.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"Randulf.7614" said:

> Why do they need to offer less? There is no lgical reason for it to be deemed unstable by offering say 500 or even 1000 ap per episode. They are pretty much free to up the limit to no negative cost.

 

If you call 'no negative cost" having to create a new armor set when players reach the next point... Yes let's offer 1k AP per episode so they have to constantly put more new items on the achievement rewards instead of leaving it alone as it is. There is a set amount of AP we can get every year (or month, I don't know how they set their AP budget) that's not going to change, if individual AP rewards give increased rewards, then the number of them need to go down to keep the target goal the same. And the target is there so they don't have to constantly deal with adding new rewards to Achievements just to satisfy some players that want to get 25 AP for their "effort" instead of 5.

[Randulf.7614]

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > @"Randulf.7614" said:

> > Why do they need to offer less? There is no lgical reason for it to be deemed unstable by offering say 500 or even 1000 ap per episode. They are pretty much free to up the limit to no negative cost.

>

> If you call 'no negative cost" having to create a new armor set when players reach the next point... Yes let's offer 1k AP per episode so they have to constantly put more new items on the achievement rewards instead of leaving it alone as it is. There is a set amount of AP we can get every year (or month, I don't know how they set their AP budget) that's not going to change, if individual AP rewards give increased rewards, then the number of them need to go down to keep the target goal the same. And the target is there so they don't have to constantly deal with adding new rewards to Achievements just to satisfy some players that want to get 25 AP for their "effort" instead of 5.

 

We are so far off the point of reaching a new set, it isnt really an issue. Plus we are talking one single set. If they cant find time to add in one single set over the next couple of years for future proofing, then that would be baffling. Or they could not put any rewards beyond titles, gems, laurels. Or maybe just a backpack. Or a mount licence. The possibilities are plentiful

 

If we went 1k ap an episode as an example, that is what 4-5k extra a year? That isnt a game changing dent on the track. That means if they started now, players would hit the current 60k cap in 3-4 years. That seems pretty reasonable as a long term goal to me.

 

A budget is just not needed.