RabbitUp.8294 Posted September 30, 2017 Share Posted September 30, 2017 > @Syktek.7912 said: > We knew it was coming and it came in a way that did exactly what it should have done. It stopped stupidly high DPS from occuring in PvE. It stopped people from instant nuking team fights in PvP (No, that's not supposed to happen, get good and learn to play a real build that requires more thought than three buttons) and it barely did a thing to WvW builds. Overall it struck where it was supposed to. Good job Anet. > > New DPS benchmark is 38k. Except that it's the exact opposite, they struck exactly where they shouldn't have. This is a nerf to firebrand's damage for all game modes. If they nerfed Ashes directly, it would stop both pve and pvp abuse just the same, without murdering solo and wvw damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felincyriac.5981 Posted September 30, 2017 Share Posted September 30, 2017 well it was a needed nerf... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick.6972 Posted September 30, 2017 Share Posted September 30, 2017 I'm fine with nerfs as long as they don't make Firebrand worse than Dragonhunter. Dragonhunter was already is extremely good spot, if they can make Firebrand at least as good and with extra 2k DPS I'm happy. The only sad aspect about the spec is how mediocre the support is in PvE - all the pre HoT support specs are still miles ahead and better. Sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eponet.4829 Posted September 30, 2017 Share Posted September 30, 2017 > @"Sorin Noroku.5342" said: > > @Ythamios.8593 said: > > Nice this is how to kill the spec, why to play this spec ???? please dev need more explanations why create a spec that is useless omg > > I don't know if this KILLED it entirely, but I agree to why play firebrand now when weaver still sits at 47-49k dps, and soulbeast sits at 40k. If firebrand requires multiple people to hit 35k (which I see entirely) and doesn't even compete with other specs, it'll be dead in water for raiding, which is a large bit of endgame and the reason for the cries for nerf (imo). Firebrand doesn't have the break that soulbeast has, and doesn't have the consistant cleave that weaver has, it doesn't have the damage that scourge has, or the damage renegade has, it's been dropped below holosmith which people are saying is still weaker than base engi (solo at least), and looks like dps of a cps, with no party support like cps has (headbutt, banners, might bot, fury, break). > > I'm honestly curious if this will cause a revert from Anet. > > **anet please revert and then nerf Ashes of the Just, that was the issue not the extra burning!** Doesn't it have good quickness uptime, allowing a chronomancer to switch to only focusing on providing alacrity, and thus switching to a 20k or so build? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thz.7569 Posted September 30, 2017 Share Posted September 30, 2017 I understand the nerf, but the replacement is braindead.> @Eponet.4829 said: > > @"Sorin Noroku.5342" said: > > > @Ythamios.8593 said: > > > Nice this is how to kill the spec, why to play this spec ???? please dev need more explanations why create a spec that is useless omg > > > > I don't know if this KILLED it entirely, but I agree to why play firebrand now when weaver still sits at 47-49k dps, and soulbeast sits at 40k. If firebrand requires multiple people to hit 35k (which I see entirely) and doesn't even compete with other specs, it'll be dead in water for raiding, which is a large bit of endgame and the reason for the cries for nerf (imo). Firebrand doesn't have the break that soulbeast has, and doesn't have the consistant cleave that weaver has, it doesn't have the damage that scourge has, or the damage renegade has, it's been dropped below holosmith which people are saying is still weaker than base engi (solo at least), and looks like dps of a cps, with no party support like cps has (headbutt, banners, might bot, fury, break). > > > > I'm honestly curious if this will cause a revert from Anet. > > > > **anet please revert and then nerf Ashes of the Just, that was the issue not the extra burning!** > > Doesn't it have good quickness uptime, allowing a chronomancer to switch to only focusing on providing alacrity, and thus switching to a 20k or so build? What are you on? Both are built into a chrono's aresenal. You don't just drop one for the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noah.4756 Posted September 30, 2017 Share Posted September 30, 2017 > @Thz.7569 said: > What are you on? Both are built into a chrono's aresenal. You don't just drop one for the other. Quickness requires concentration, alacrity doesn't. In that sense a Chronomancer could make build changes allowing it to do more DPS. For example, it could drop signet of inspiration, well of action and sigil of concentration and replace those with utilities that could increase their condition damage. My criticism now is though that quickness given by the Firebrand is still somewhat lackluster due to the radius limitations of mantra's. Also the huge nerf to Legendary Lore significantly reduced the Firebrand's DPS. I'm not sure whether the FIrebrand/Chronomancer combination will still have sufficient DPS while providing quickness compared to a dedicated chronomancer combined with a DPS role. That's something for the benchmarks to find out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eponet.4829 Posted September 30, 2017 Share Posted September 30, 2017 > @Thz.7569 said: > I understand the nerf, but the replacement is braindead.> @Eponet.4829 said: > > > @"Sorin Noroku.5342" said: > > > > @Ythamios.8593 said: > > > > Nice this is how to kill the spec, why to play this spec ???? please dev need more explanations why create a spec that is useless omg > > > > > > I don't know if this KILLED it entirely, but I agree to why play firebrand now when weaver still sits at 47-49k dps, and soulbeast sits at 40k. If firebrand requires multiple people to hit 35k (which I see entirely) and doesn't even compete with other specs, it'll be dead in water for raiding, which is a large bit of endgame and the reason for the cries for nerf (imo). Firebrand doesn't have the break that soulbeast has, and doesn't have the consistant cleave that weaver has, it doesn't have the damage that scourge has, or the damage renegade has, it's been dropped below holosmith which people are saying is still weaker than base engi (solo at least), and looks like dps of a cps, with no party support like cps has (headbutt, banners, might bot, fury, break). > > > > > > I'm honestly curious if this will cause a revert from Anet. > > > > > > **anet please revert and then nerf Ashes of the Just, that was the issue not the extra burning!** > > > > Doesn't it have good quickness uptime, allowing a chronomancer to switch to only focusing on providing alacrity, and thus switching to a 20k or so build? > > What are you on? Both are built into a chrono's aresenal. You don't just drop one for the other. You're not dropping one for the other. You're dropping one for DPS. Providing both at once is what's tanking their personal damage. If they don't need to provide quickness themselves, they actually have the ability to push their personal damage to quite reasonable levels. Alternatively, people at the Revenant board seem to be trying to make an alacrity/assassin's presence/damage/soulcleave's summit Renegade build work that, if they manage to get to work, would, when combined with quickness from Firebrand could replace chronomancer buffs entirely. Though, I still feel that the Alacrity/DPS chronomancer would have better affinity, since said chronomancer provides the 4 other people on its own in the event that you're needing to split or whatever, and the bit of incidental quickness from their shield 5 would help make up for mistakes/mechanics that require deviation from their rotation in the firebrand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velran.1052 Posted September 30, 2017 Share Posted September 30, 2017 Great, Another PVE nerf without regarding WvW/PvP. Now it'll just be another 3 months before any other change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeSavage.1359 Posted September 30, 2017 Share Posted September 30, 2017 was about to change my viper ascended set with trapper and nightmare runes to sinister balthazar and sigil of burning. Im glad i held off. The nerf is too big Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sorin Noroku.5342 Posted September 30, 2017 Author Share Posted September 30, 2017 > @LeSavage.1359 said: > was about to change my viper ascended set with trapper and nightmare runes to sinister balthazar and sigil of burning. Im glad i held off. The nerf is too big I'm still running the viper with renegade runes, hitting a fairly decent number of dps. One that I feel should be just fine for raids without murdering them. I'm 5k off the benchmark without really practicing it to minmax the rotation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RabbitUp.8294 Posted September 30, 2017 Share Posted September 30, 2017 > @Eponet.4829 said: > > @"Sorin Noroku.5342" said: > > > @Ythamios.8593 said: > > > Nice this is how to kill the spec, why to play this spec ???? please dev need more explanations why create a spec that is useless omg > > > > I don't know if this KILLED it entirely, but I agree to why play firebrand now when weaver still sits at 47-49k dps, and soulbeast sits at 40k. If firebrand requires multiple people to hit 35k (which I see entirely) and doesn't even compete with other specs, it'll be dead in water for raiding, which is a large bit of endgame and the reason for the cries for nerf (imo). Firebrand doesn't have the break that soulbeast has, and doesn't have the consistant cleave that weaver has, it doesn't have the damage that scourge has, or the damage renegade has, it's been dropped below holosmith which people are saying is still weaker than base engi (solo at least), and looks like dps of a cps, with no party support like cps has (headbutt, banners, might bot, fury, break). > > > > I'm honestly curious if this will cause a revert from Anet. > > > > **anet please revert and then nerf Ashes of the Just, that was the issue not the extra burning!** > > Doesn't it have good quickness uptime, allowing a chronomancer to switch to only focusing on providing alacrity, and thus switching to a 20k or so build? Yes, you can do that, but you are adding an extra class in the group, and that spot can only come at a cost of a dps class. Therefore, you gain 10k or so from your chrono, but you lose a dps class, so firebrand has to make up for the difference through their own personal dps. And then, let's look at this situation. You have chrono that can do both alacrity and quickness, and firebrand that can do only quickness, so we are brought in the group just so chrono can have build variety. That's firebrand's accomplishment, giving more options to chrono, instead of being a class that can stand on its own. Oh, and if this work,s it's only possible in one subgroup only, the one without the chronotank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikau.6920 Posted September 30, 2017 Share Posted September 30, 2017 The only real problem for me is the high discrepancy of DPS compared to solo and group. They could nerf Quickfire and Tome of Justice 5 but for compensation buff other skills. The Firebrand could still have a higher DPS on a group, but not so low DPS solo. That's the main problem that I see with the class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nowaki.2136 Posted September 30, 2017 Share Posted September 30, 2017 tbh i would've prefer 128372163721535 times that they nerfs ashes that only affects group game play, and not the entire tome that also affects solo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Substatic.6958 Posted September 30, 2017 Share Posted September 30, 2017 how much more dps does griever do over sinister or viper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcaedus.7290 Posted September 30, 2017 Share Posted September 30, 2017 It's unfortunate that there was really no way to stop this nerf from carrying over to pvp. As is, we now have a pretty unfair situation where FB has been nerfed before the balance patch and will have to deal with it for another couple weeks, possibly suffering more nerfs when the balance patch hits, while everyone else can continue enjoying their rock gazelles 1-shotting people, or their scourges effortlessly murdering everyone on point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enigmoid.1264 Posted September 30, 2017 Share Posted September 30, 2017 Not sure what the complaints are about. Dragonhunter was basically top dps in raids before POF (very high damage and easy rotation). Not sure why Firebrand, which brings a not insignificant amount of support should have higher damage. 38k is really really good for a class that brings moderate/low group quickness. I disagree with the way they nerfed FB, should have reduced the +group damage while keeping solo damage high but even now it is still very very OP compared to other classes who do similar amounts of damage with absolutely no support. FB should be well under DH dps for this reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azoqu.8917 Posted September 30, 2017 Share Posted September 30, 2017 > @Enigmoid.1264 said: > **Not sure what the complaints are about.** Dragonhunter was basically top dps in raids before POF (very high damage and easy rotation). Not sure why Firebrand, which brings a not insignificant amount of support should have higher damage. 38k is really really good for a class that brings moderate/low group quickness. > > **I disagree with the way they nerfed FB, should have reduced the +group damage while keeping solo damage high** but even now it is still very very OP compared to other classes who do similar amounts of damage with absolutely no support. FB should be well under DH dps for this reason. It seems like you understand why everyone is complaining. We were all totally expecting a nerf, but the way they did it just shows once again how incompetent Anet is at understanding how their own game works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enigmoid.1264 Posted September 30, 2017 Share Posted September 30, 2017 > @Azoqu.8917 said: > > @Enigmoid.1264 said: > > **Not sure what the complaints are about.** Dragonhunter was basically top dps in raids before POF (very high damage and easy rotation). Not sure why Firebrand, which brings a not insignificant amount of support should have higher damage. 38k is really really good for a class that brings moderate/low group quickness. > > > > **I disagree with the way they nerfed FB, should have reduced the +group damage while keeping solo damage high** but even now it is still very very OP compared to other classes who do similar amounts of damage with absolutely no support. FB should be well under DH dps for this reason. > > It seems like you understand why everyone is complaining. We were all totally expecting a nerf, but the way they did it just shows once again how incompetent Anet is at understanding how their own game works. Not sure what Anet is thinking. They may have thought that the tome burst damage was too high. The nerf was justified and FB, like most PoF specs, will get nerfed more in the future. Still this forum is still complaining about FB dps. 38k is more than DH (basically top damage pre POF) was doing and DH had 0/minimal support. Seeing this in the scourge forum as well. People wanting great support capabilities and top tier dps at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahlen.7591 Posted September 30, 2017 Share Posted September 30, 2017 It was too severe. Make the leftover 40% rather than 20% and it'd probably be fine. Also a bad nerf because it hurts solo DPS too, rather than the stronger group DPS provided by ashes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikeskies.1536 Posted September 30, 2017 Share Posted September 30, 2017 > @Ahlen.7591 said: > It was too severe. Make the leftover 40% rather than 20% and it'd probably be fine. > > Also a bad nerf because it hurts solo DPS too, rather than the stronger group DPS provided by ashes. The change was probably done with PvP in mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yasi.9065 Posted September 30, 2017 Share Posted September 30, 2017 37k is still fine, dunno what everybody is on about. Tbh, Ive expected a way worse nerf and I am glad Anet devs restrained themselves :) As for quickness firebrand... http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQRAnf7fnsADFBjdBDWCBkCjl4Bb/lWT3pVBgtU9yaD8CeUA-jhhAQBgU5HEV/xinEAAqfAAPBAbu/oEkUA8ssC-e 100% quickness uptime, 26-27k dps (with mesmer clones) realistic buffs... if you put an alacrity chrono in that group as well, you wont loose dps... and both builds are quite easy to play. So, yes... I think its something to consider, especially if your group doesnt have a good chrono... and lets face it... the majority of chronos cant even buff 100% quickness and alacrity... not to mention do more than 3k dps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahlen.7591 Posted September 30, 2017 Share Posted September 30, 2017 I agree that Quickfire is probably the way to go now. RIP full tome build. It was fun swapping in and out of books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vajra.3914 Posted September 30, 2017 Share Posted September 30, 2017 It should have been 100%, since they took away 2 extra burning stack, it would have lowered the damage but kept it on a good spot. 20% is near useless, in most cases it doesn't even reach 1 extra full sec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knox.8962 Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 > @Vajra.3914 said: > It should have been 100%, since they took away 2 extra burning stack, it would have lowered the damage but kept it on a good spot. 20% is near useless, in most cases it doesn't even reach 1 extra full sec. 100% would have been a buff compared to the old version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sorin Noroku.5342 Posted October 1, 2017 Author Share Posted October 1, 2017 > @Yasi.9065 said: > So, yes... I think its something to consider, especially if your group doesnt have a good chrono... and lets face it... the majority of chronos cant even buff 100% quickness and alacrity... not to mention do more than 3k dps TFW you have higher quickness uptime than either chrono on boss.... 80% compared to 60% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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