Diflourite earrings: no HoT stats?

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

I hate to be "that guy" but I highly suspect that this is a troll thread. The OP is asking us to emotionally justify a decision, which is impossible. We've already given him the facts.

[phs.6089]

> @"Daddicus.6128" said:

> > @"phs.6089" said:

> > > @"Daddicus.6128" said:

> > > Can someone (preferably from ANet) please explain why the diflourite earrings cannot have HoT stats? They can do core stats, but not HoT?

> >

> > They don't even have full core stats, such as assassin, magi, carrion etc. . While trinkets from HoT have full combos from core+HoT.

>

> I hadn't noticed that. That makes my statement (that diflourite trinkets have no value) in the previous post a gross understatement.

 

actually they do as it's the only way to get second 'harrier', 'plaguedoctor' earring from open world

 

Ember bay is tough love, it doesn't look friendly but it grows on you, give the https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Petrified_Wood a chance

[Jimbru.6014]

Ultimately, the stats are separated by expansion to encourage people to buy all the expansions. Always follow the money; it usually leads to the ugly truth.

 

That said, it should be noted that probably 80% or more of the level 80 game revolves around two stat sets: Berserker (core) and Viper (HoT). That's a problem in several ways, and could be a topic all its own.

[Sir Alric.5078]

> @"Daddicus.6128" said:

> I cited that Core stats are available from PoF items. I'm asking for logic to defend the choice to leave out HoT stats. If they're going to be consistent, then HoT stats should also be available, because HoT preceded PoF, just like Core did.

>

> Here's the big issue: you can't wear two earrings of the same type, because they're unique. So, now I'm stuck with one HoT earring and one from fractals or some other part of the game. Or, I have to use winterberries to make earrings. But, those have to be reserved for breathers, because there are effectively no other breathers available. (The ones from Astora come even less frequently than Wegloop's, so that's no help.)

 

Uhm, no. If you want ascended earrings with HoT stats, you can get one in Ember bay, and another one in Bitterfrost frontier. You don't need to do fractals unless you want it to. Just farm Bitterfrost frontier for a week and you will have both the earring and the acqua breather.

[Gehenna.3625]

> @"Daddicus.6128" said:

> > @"Gehenna.3625" said:

> > > @"Daddicus.6128" said:

> > > No, it doesn't. By that logic, neither HoT nor PoF trinkets should include Core stats as an option. Hence, this thread.

> >

> > Yes it does because the core game is free and is given free with either expansion to begin with. The reason they keep PoF and HoT separate and many other things for that matter is to keep both expansions as viable for purchasing. If you bought PoF and not HoT and want those HoT stats you need to buy HoT. If you buy HoT and want PoF stats you need to buy PoF. Same goes for guild stuff, gliders, mounts, etc.

>

> Yeah, but I own BOTH.

>

> PoF came out after HoT. HoT included all previous stat combos, i.e. core stats. Logically, PoF should have done the same. (Personally, I think HoT should be retrofitted with PoF stats as well, but backstitching is another subject.)

 

Sure, I own both as well and I wish that for owners of both they would do something to change that. It annoyed me as well but I don't know what it would take for them to make that adjustment triggered by owning both copies. I agree its' not ideal but as for why, that's where it's at. I mean both expansions get the core set. Most games require you to stack expansions, GW2 doesn't. I see the point of that choice but at the same time it causes stuff like this. I would've preferred that you have to get HoT first and then can add PoF to that. The other issue is that you have a fair amount of players now that have either or. Also annoying for guilds because HoT added a lot of guild stuff that you don't have access to with PoF. I get the appeal that people don't have to stack expansions but at the other hand, I think it would've been better to do so and avoid stuff like this.

 

At the same time, I have 7 characters and they all have ascended trinkets by now and I got almost all of them this year...and I'm not big on farming either. I get bored quickly with that. So annoying yes, because it took me by surprise. So I learned to farm the right ones. I dunno, it's not a big deal in retrospect as far as I'm concerned. Live and learn.

[Daddicus.6128]

> @"Jimbru.6014" said:

> Ultimately, the stats are separated by expansion to encourage people to buy all the expansions. Always follow the money; it usually leads to the ugly truth.

>

> That said, it should be noted that probably 80% or more of the level 80 game revolves around two stat sets: Berserker (core) and Viper (HoT). That's a problem in several ways, and could be a topic all its own.

 

Following the money doesn't work. That's the whole point of this thread.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

It encourages players to purchase each expansion; how does that not involve money?

[Daddicus.6128]

> @"phs.6089" said:

> > @"Daddicus.6128" said:

> > > @"phs.6089" said:

> > > > @"Daddicus.6128" said:

> > > > Can someone (preferably from ANet) please explain why the diflourite earrings cannot have HoT stats? They can do core stats, but not HoT?

> > >

> > > They don't even have full core stats, such as assassin, magi, carrion etc. . While trinkets from HoT have full combos from core+HoT.

> >

> > I hadn't noticed that. That makes my statement (that diflourite trinkets have no value) in the previous post a gross understatement.

>

> actually they do as it's the only way to get second 'harrier', 'plaguedoctor' earring from open world

>

> Ember bay is tough love, it doesn't look friendly but it grows on you, give the https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Petrified_Wood a chance

 

Where does the other harrier/plaguedoctor come from? There's only one source of trinkets at vendors in PoF areas. Is there another source somewhere?

[Daddicus.6128]

> @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:

> It encourages players to purchase each expansion; how does that not involve money?

 

Because I HAVE both expansions. I paid the money.

[eldrjth.7384]

I think S4 trinkets should come will all core stats selectable but none of the S3 exclusion ones. Once all the S4 episodes have been released one should be able to fully outfit their character in S4 trinkets and select whatever core stat they want just like they are able to with season 3 ones. You dont have to water down S4 tinkets to make ppl play on S3 maps; you still have the draw of exclusive stats and bitter-frost frontier seems like it would still be one of the go-to place to get cheap accessories.

[phs.6089]

> @"Daddicus.6128" said:

> > @"phs.6089" said:

> > > @"Daddicus.6128" said:

> > > > @"phs.6089" said:

> > > > > @"Daddicus.6128" said:

> > > > > Can someone (preferably from ANet) please explain why the diflourite earrings cannot have HoT stats? They can do core stats, but not HoT?

> > > >

> > > > They don't even have full core stats, such as assassin, magi, carrion etc. . While trinkets from HoT have full combos from core+HoT.

> > >

> > > I hadn't noticed that. That makes my statement (that diflourite trinkets have no value) in the previous post a gross understatement.

> >

> > actually they do as it's the only way to get second 'harrier', 'plaguedoctor' earring from open world

> >

> > Ember bay is tough love, it doesn't look friendly but it grows on you, give the https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Petrified_Wood a chance

>

> Where does the other harrier/plaguedoctor come from? There's only one source of trinkets at vendors in PoF areas. Is there another source somewhere?

 

Nope. Harrier earring is from Vabbi/Desolation, Plaguedoctor from Kourna, Marshal from Crysatl Oasis and Elon Riverside, Grieving from Primeval Tomb.

So, to get a second earring with those stats from open world one needs Sandswept.> @"Daddicus.6128" said:

> > @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:

> > It encourages players to purchase each expansion; how does that not involve money?

>

> Because I HAVE both expansions. I paid the money.

 

If you have both you can select any existing stats from Mist trinkets.

It's not only to have it's also to make people to keep playing LW3 maps. Something they didn't do with LW4.

People do Istan for loot and sadswept for food, rest have very lilt replyability.

[Daddicus.6128]

> @"phs.6089" said:

> > @"Daddicus.6128" said:

> > > @"phs.6089" said:

> > > > @"Daddicus.6128" said:

> > > > > @"phs.6089" said:

> > > > > > @"Daddicus.6128" said:

> > > > > > Can someone (preferably from ANet) please explain why the diflourite earrings cannot have HoT stats? They can do core stats, but not HoT?

> > > > >

> > > > > They don't even have full core stats, such as assassin, magi, carrion etc. . While trinkets from HoT have full combos from core+HoT.

> > > >

> > > > I hadn't noticed that. That makes my statement (that diflourite trinkets have no value) in the previous post a gross understatement.

> > >

> > > actually they do as it's the only way to get second 'harrier', 'plaguedoctor' earring from open world

> > >

> > > Ember bay is tough love, it doesn't look friendly but it grows on you, give the https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Petrified_Wood a chance

> >

> > Where does the other harrier/plaguedoctor come from? There's only one source of trinkets at vendors in PoF areas. Is there another source somewhere?

>

> Nope. Harrier earring is from Vabbi/Desolation, Plaguedoctor from Kourna, Marshal from Crysatl Oasis and Elon Riverside, Grieving from Primeval Tomb.

> So, to get a second earring with those stats from open world one needs Sandswept.

OK, so that at least means they're not totally worthless. Because I can see no need for any of the PoF stats, they're worthless to ME, but others might find a use for them. Thank you for that clarification!

> @"Daddicus.6128" said:

> > > @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:

> > > It encourages players to purchase each expansion; how does that not involve money?

> >

> > Because I HAVE both expansions. I paid the money.

>

> If you have both you can select any existing stats from Mist trinkets.

> It's not only to have it's also to make people to keep playing LW3 maps. Something they didn't do with LW4.

> People do Istan for loot and sadswept for food, rest have very lilt replyability.

 

In other words, I have to play in the Mists in order to make my character have a full set. Of course, if I DO play in the mists, and I get all of the PVE stats without playing in PVE. Not very fair, but ANet has always tried to force people to play ANet's way, so that's nothing new. (Gift of Battle, for instance.)

 

So, it's clear to me now that HoT yields HoT stats, and PoF yields PoF, AND there's a full set available, although with costs. (Of course, I stated that in my opening post, so it's not new.)

 

But, I'm still waiting to see a (good) game-design reason WHY they did this. Money is mentioned, but they would have earned the same amount if they allowed all old stats appear in future expansions. And, they would have earned MORE money if they had all stats available everywhere (except free-to-play accounts). This is because people who bought only PoF would have an incentive to play in HoT (to get black diamonds, for example), so they might buy HoT.

[Gehenna.3625]

> @"Daddicus.6128" said:

> > @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:

> > It encourages players to purchase each expansion; how does that not involve money?

>

> Because I HAVE both expansions. I paid the money.

That doesn't mean it's not about the money. I think the point is clear that ArenaNet wants people to be able to pick and choose between expansions and still have a reason to buy the other. So that part is definitely about the money.

 

Now there's the other part that you're after and that's the question of why, when you have both expansions, does it not spill over into each other so you can get all stats from all trinkets. Well there are two reasons for that that come to mind that both involve money though indirectly and it's not just money. First of all, as I indicated before, it may not be as straightforward to do that. It may be trickier than you might think and it will take resources to make it happen. Resources cost money.

 

The other side of that is that they want to keep content relevant. As you may have noticed even within HoT for example you can't just equip two of the same. There are some tricks around that but at the core of it, you need to get two rings and two earrings from different sources. So it is intentional. And with PoF it's another way of doing that for their separate stat sets. By doing this it keeps different daily areas active. If you could equip the same everybody would just be farming winterberries and forget the rest. So it's also to keep daily maps active and this adds to the appeal and value of the new daily maps. This is the thing to me. Each daily area should stay relevant is the idea behind that and so they give each daily area a separate reason to go there. This way there's always people on such maps because they are living story maps and unless you are playing when they come out....you have to pay for them. And why would you spend money on living story that brings daily maps that don't have a their own value? Just story isn't enough for everyone.

 

But I think those are the two elements that matter for this topic. Possibly it's trickier and more involved than you think to make it happen and they probably don't want to anyway because it will devaluate the LS chapters.

 

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"phs.6089" said:

> > @"Daddicus.6128" said:

> > Can someone (preferably from ANet) please explain why the diflourite earrings cannot have HoT stats? They can do core stats, but not HoT?

>

> They don't even have full core stats, such as assassin, magi, carrion etc. . While trinkets from HoT have full combos from core+HoT.

Now _that_ is a real problem. Definitely, PoF trinkets should have _all_ the core stats available.

 

> @"Daddicus.6128" said:

> PoF isn't done yet, so this may change, but IMO there are currently zero useful PoF stat combinations available for PvE. So, there's no reason to ever buy another diflourite trinket (and I wish I could recover the volatile magic I spend on these useless things).

That's also a valid case. While there are some stat sets that are useful in some cases (harriers are meta for some support builds at the moment), the available selection is really low. Coupled with the previous problem (not having all core stats) it makes PoF gear way less desirable than if was for HoT. Let's hope that all the new stat sets they said are going to be introduced will be retroactively added to PoF stat selections. And that at least some of those stat sets will be useful (even if only in niche cases).

 

[Daddicus.6128]

You could be right. I'm pretty sure it wouldn't have been more difficult at the beginning, but it could be now (if they made a limiting design/programming decision when HoT was released.)

 

But, it couldn't be the money. People who bought only PoF have roughly the same incentive to buy HoT as HoT players to buy PoF. (Yes, I know, that's not completely true, since HoT stat combos are clearly superior to PoF stats. But, that's not the point I'm trying to make.)

 

BUT, if they did cross-connect the trinkets, then PoF-only players would have an incentive to buy HoT (and vice-versa). The same would be true in reverse. NOTE: This would only apply to stat-selectable gear, like diflourite and black diamond trinkets.

[Daddicus.6128]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"phs.6089" said:

> > > @"Daddicus.6128" said:

> > > Can someone (preferably from ANet) please explain why the diflourite earrings cannot have HoT stats? They can do core stats, but not HoT?

> >

> > They don't even have full core stats, such as assassin, magi, carrion etc. . While trinkets from HoT have full combos from core+HoT.

> Now _that_ is a real problem. Definitely, PoF trinkets should have _all_ the core stats available.

>

 

Agreed. Even if they have a good reason for separating HoT and PoF statted trinkets, they should include all core stats. (Although, maybe they're trying to force people in Fractals and WvW. It's not like that's never happened.)

[Daddicus.6128]

> @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:

> It encourages players to purchase each expansion; how does that not involve money?

 

Picture all the reasons a PvE PoF-only player has to purchase HoT. Now, remove all of those reasons that don't include the subject of this thread: stat-selectable trinkets. How many reasons to buy HoT remain?

 

Zero.

 

But, if they DID allow HoT stats, now a player would have an incentive (admittedly small) to buy HoT, because s/he needs HoT in order to get the matching trinkets.

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"Cyninja.2954" said:

>Here https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ascended_trinket, go check when the first ascended ring became available with HoT (Bloodstone Fen to be exact). How many rings were people able to use at that point? How is this any different then compared to now?

> It took until LWS3 Episode 3 (Bitterfrost Frontier) until people could get the set completed in HoT and the related living world content.

We are at episode four of the LS season 4 though.

[Daddicus.6128]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> >Here https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ascended_trinket, go check when the first ascended ring became available with HoT (Bloodstone Fen to be exact). How many rings were people able to use at that point? How is this any different then compared to now?

> > It took until LWS3 Episode 3 (Bitterfrost Frontier) until people could get the set completed in HoT and the related living world content.

> We are at episode four of the LS season 4 though.

 

Very true.

 

However, in Cyninja's defense, there are other ways to get trinkets in PoF. They're not stat-selectable, but they do exist. ANet may have trying a new method of delivering gear. If so, then we'll probably see stat-selectable back items and amulets in future installments.

 

Which, incidentally, argues against the point I'm trying to make in this thread. Because HoT did NOT have stat-specific trinkets, that could be a reason to not make the stat-selectable ones cross expansion boundaries.

[Daddicus.6128]

I also thought of another argument for why the stats in PoF are limited to PoF (and some core): Thematic reasons. I don't see them, but they could be there. Such thematic reasons could also explain why not all core stats are available in PoF.

 

I don't see this as a GOOD reason, but it could be a reason. (And, there might be other logic behind it that makes it a better reason, from their perspective.)

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

> @"Daddicus.6128" said:

> > @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:

> > It encourages players to purchase each expansion; how does that not involve money?

>

> Picture all the reasons a PvE PoF-only player has to purchase HoT. Now, remove all of those reasons that don't include the subject of this thread: stat-selectable trinkets. How many reasons to buy HoT remain?

>

> Zero.

>

> But, if they DID allow HoT stats, now a player would have an incentive (admittedly small) to buy HoT, because s/he needs HoT in order to get the matching trinkets.

 

If a player wants a certain stat combination, and it is only available from one certain map (that's only available through Expansion-purchase), why would it be necessary to already own a trinket with that stat combination?

 

If this was not true, why do we see laments about having to purchase a certain LW Episode to access certain trinkets? Also, don't forget that it is possible, nay probable, that Season 5 will require Path of Fire. That means several more maps that can offer trinkets and stat combinations.

[phs.6089]

> @"Daddicus.6128" said:

> > @"phs.6089" said:

> > > @"Daddicus.6128" said:

> > > > @"phs.6089" said:

> > > > > @"Daddicus.6128" said:

> > > > > > @"phs.6089" said:

> > > > > > > @"Daddicus.6128" said:

> > > > > > > Can someone (preferably from ANet) please explain why the diflourite earrings cannot have HoT stats? They can do core stats, but not HoT?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > They don't even have full core stats, such as assassin, magi, carrion etc. . While trinkets from HoT have full combos from core+HoT.

> > > > >

> > > > > I hadn't noticed that. That makes my statement (that diflourite trinkets have no value) in the previous post a gross understatement.

> > > >

> > > > actually they do as it's the only way to get second 'harrier', 'plaguedoctor' earring from open world

> > > >

> > > > Ember bay is tough love, it doesn't look friendly but it grows on you, give the https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Petrified_Wood a chance

> > >

> > > Where does the other harrier/plaguedoctor come from? There's only one source of trinkets at vendors in PoF areas. Is there another source somewhere?

> >

> > Nope. Harrier earring is from Vabbi/Desolation, Plaguedoctor from Kourna, Marshal from Crysatl Oasis and Elon Riverside, Grieving from Primeval Tomb.

> > So, to get a second earring with those stats from open world one needs Sandswept.

> OK, so that at least means they're not totally worthless. Because I can see no need for any of the PoF stats, they're worthless to ME, but others might find a use for them. Thank you for that clarification!

> > @"Daddicus.6128" said:

> > > > @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:

> > > > It encourages players to purchase each expansion; how does that not involve money?

> > >

> > > Because I HAVE both expansions. I paid the money.

> >

> > If you have both you can select any existing stats from Mist trinkets.

> > It's not only to have it's also to make people to keep playing LW3 maps. Something they didn't do with LW4.

> > People do Istan for loot and sadswept for food, rest have very lilt replyability.

>

> In other words, I have to play in the Mists in order to make my character have a full set. Of course, if I DO play in the mists, and I get all of the PVE stats without playing in PVE. Not very fair, but ANet has always tried to force people to play ANet's way, so that's nothing new. (Gift of Battle, for instance.)

>

yes you gotta play Mists fro those but you are not limited to pvp/wvw mists only, fractas mists will as well.

I think I already gave you a hint on what to do for second earring from LW3 with HoT stats. Ember bay LW3e2 https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rising_Flames

 

Run around chop special wood, kill daily BAMs, do hearts and you will have it in no time.

 

besides that map can provide you with second ring in under 20 minuts if you lucky enough or have 30-40 gold to spend to speed up gearing.

http://dulfy.net/2016/12/12/gw2-strange-rock-ascended-ring-guide/

 

[Daddicus.6128]

> @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:

> > @"Daddicus.6128" said:

> > > @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:

> > > It encourages players to purchase each expansion; how does that not involve money?

> >

> > Picture all the reasons a PvE PoF-only player has to purchase HoT. Now, remove all of those reasons that don't include the subject of this thread: stat-selectable trinkets. How many reasons to buy HoT remain?

> >

> > Zero.

> >

> > But, if they DID allow HoT stats, now a player would have an incentive (admittedly small) to buy HoT, because s/he needs HoT in order to get the matching trinkets.

>

> If a player wants a certain stat combination, and it is only available from one certain map (that's only available through Expansion-purchase), why would it be necessary to already own a trinket with that stat combination?

>

> If this was not true, why do we see laments about having to purchase a certain LW Episode to access certain trinkets? Also, don't forget that it is possible, nay probable, that Season 5 will require Path of Fire. That means several more maps that can offer trinkets and stat combinations.

 

You kind of missed the point. I was explaining how ANet makes nothing from having only one earring and one ring. It is a factor that doesn't matter to anybody, and therefore certainly wouldn't push a PoF-only someone to buy HoT.

 

But IF the trinkets WERE cross-pollenated between expansions, then there may be an incentive. Tiny, but non-zero.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

Well, we will have to wait until all Living World Season Episodes that are associated with Path of Fire are released before coming to any conclusions.

[Astralporing.1957]

By that time the next expac will be on its way, and those instances will likely become ghost towns.