Just a flesh wound.3589 Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > @"Ayakaru.6583" said: > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said: > > > > > > > @"Davion Roth.6709" said: > > > > > > > I agree, I think things should always be available to buy, and I think they'd make more money. > > > > > > The fact is that companies make less money when items are always available. While plenty of people are blocked from purchasing, many more people will spend more time in game, look at alternative items, convert RL cash to gems in preparation, and otherwise spend more on the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > Rotating inventory does a couple of things > > > > > > * It reduces clutter, making items more noticeable > > > > > > * It reduces "saturation," the "familiarity breeds contempt" problem, in which people start to take items for granted, and therefore feel they are less desirable. > > > > > > * It creates artificial urgency: if know I can always buy something, there's less pressure to buy when it becomes available. > > > > > > * It keeps people paying attention to the gem shop. > > > > > > > > > > > > There's a reason that artificial scarcity is used by retailers worldwide for, well, since there have been retailers. > > > > > > > > > > yah but it seems predatory and manipulative and negative. > > > > > > > > Pretty standard marketing. > > > > All businesses have a predatory element, even your local library > > > > > > somehow that makes it ok? what you said? > > > > It makes it common and everyday because they’re using human psychology. Just watch commercials and you’ll see plenty of “buy now while supplies last” pitches. For example, just today I saw an advertisement for a holiday version of a brand name chocolate which was saying “hurry up and get it now. Supply ends at the end of the year.” That’s artificial scarcity right there as the only reason supply ends at the end of the year is to pressure people to “buy before it’s gone”. > > > > lol just because its common, doesn't make it right, or any less negative. But it does make it profitable which is what businesses care about. The people who own or have stock in businesses have a right for a business to do what it can within the laws to turn a profit. It’s not reasonable to expect a business to ignore human behavior when they’re selling their goods. Businesses that ignore human behavior will be outsold by business that don’t ignore human behavior and will go out of business, causing the people that depend on them to lose their jobs and the stock owners to lose money, which makes it not right for them. Every situation has two sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted December 24, 2018 Share Posted December 24, 2018 > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > @"Ayakaru.6583" said: > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said: > > > > > > > @"Davion Roth.6709" said: > > > > > > > I agree, I think things should always be available to buy, and I think they'd make more money. > > > > > > The fact is that companies make less money when items are always available. While plenty of people are blocked from purchasing, many more people will spend more time in game, look at alternative items, convert RL cash to gems in preparation, and otherwise spend more on the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > Rotating inventory does a couple of things > > > > > > * It reduces clutter, making items more noticeable > > > > > > * It reduces "saturation," the "familiarity breeds contempt" problem, in which people start to take items for granted, and therefore feel they are less desirable. > > > > > > * It creates artificial urgency: if know I can always buy something, there's less pressure to buy when it becomes available. > > > > > > * It keeps people paying attention to the gem shop. > > > > > > > > > > > > There's a reason that artificial scarcity is used by retailers worldwide for, well, since there have been retailers. > > > > > > > > > > yah but it seems predatory and manipulative and negative. > > > > > > > > Pretty standard marketing. > > > > All businesses have a predatory element, even your local library > > > > > > somehow that makes it ok? what you said? > > > > It makes it common and everyday because they’re using human psychology. Just watch commercials and you’ll see plenty of “buy now while supplies last” pitches. For example, just today I saw an advertisement for a holiday version of a brand name chocolate which was saying “hurry up and get it now. Supply ends at the end of the year.” That’s artificial scarcity right there as the only reason supply ends at the end of the year is to pressure people to “buy before it’s gone”. > > > > lol just because its common, doesn't make it right, or any less negative. Businesses have 1 goal: make money. If they manage to do so while making consumers happy or cater to consumer needs, etc. even better. Guild Wars 2 has no subscription fee. This is a boon and a detriment. You have to take the good with the bad. Does this justify every type of monetization or exploitation or approach to make money? Not if the company wants to remain loved and supported by fans and customers. Does this mean they are allowed to try to sell their goods in an as effective way as possible? Sure. Are you offended by bright and colorful advertisements for kids? What about flashy car commercials for men (and women)? There is a line which should not be crossed (say loot boxes in all those cellphone games targeted at kids). Offering cosmetic and game irrelevant services in an efficient way is not it imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Lumpix.6108 Posted December 24, 2018 Share Posted December 24, 2018 > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > @"Ayakaru.6583" said: > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said: > > > > > > > > @"Davion Roth.6709" said: > > > > > > > > I agree, I think things should always be available to buy, and I think they'd make more money. > > > > > > > The fact is that companies make less money when items are always available. While plenty of people are blocked from purchasing, many more people will spend more time in game, look at alternative items, convert RL cash to gems in preparation, and otherwise spend more on the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rotating inventory does a couple of things > > > > > > > * It reduces clutter, making items more noticeable > > > > > > > * It reduces "saturation," the "familiarity breeds contempt" problem, in which people start to take items for granted, and therefore feel they are less desirable. > > > > > > > * It creates artificial urgency: if know I can always buy something, there's less pressure to buy when it becomes available. > > > > > > > * It keeps people paying attention to the gem shop. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There's a reason that artificial scarcity is used by retailers worldwide for, well, since there have been retailers. > > > > > > > > > > > > yah but it seems predatory and manipulative and negative. > > > > > > > > > > Pretty standard marketing. > > > > > All businesses have a predatory element, even your local library > > > > > > > > somehow that makes it ok? what you said? > > > > > > It makes it common and everyday because they’re using human psychology. Just watch commercials and you’ll see plenty of “buy now while supplies last” pitches. For example, just today I saw an advertisement for a holiday version of a brand name chocolate which was saying “hurry up and get it now. Supply ends at the end of the year.” That’s artificial scarcity right there as the only reason supply ends at the end of the year is to pressure people to “buy before it’s gone”. > > > > > > > lol just because its common, doesn't make it right, or any less negative. > > Businesses have 1 goal: make money. If they manage to do so while making consumers happy or cater to consumer needs, etc. even better. > > Guild Wars 2 has no subscription fee. This is a boon and a detriment. You have to take the good with the bad. Does this justify every type of monetization or exploitation or approach to make money? Not if the company wants to remain loved and supported by fans and customers. Does this mean they are allowed to try to sell their goods in an as effective way as possible? Sure. > > Are you offended by bright and colorful advertisements for kids? What about flashy car commercials for men (and women)? There is a line which should not be crossed (say loot boxes in all those cellphone games targeted at kids). Offering cosmetic and game irrelevant services in an efficient way is not it imo. I actually agree with lootboxes, i think parents just dont watch their kids. But holding out on items like they are girl scout cookies, is just blatent psychological manipulation. I disagree with anything that is artificial + limited time, if i want to buy it, i should be able to whenever, otherwise its just total BS. When its a gatcha game I feel like its more transparent and you know the odds of getting something upfront. WHen they take it away for no reason like oh gee its limited time, it feels predatory much more so then offering a game of chance. Likewise, when gatcha games do limited time banners I think those are predatory as well, and 99% of most gatcha horror stories come from limited time banners (ie. girlscout cookie phenomena) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just a flesh wound.3589 Posted December 24, 2018 Share Posted December 24, 2018 > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > @"Ayakaru.6583" said: > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Davion Roth.6709" said: > > > > > > > > > I agree, I think things should always be available to buy, and I think they'd make more money. > > > > > > > > The fact is that companies make less money when items are always available. While plenty of people are blocked from purchasing, many more people will spend more time in game, look at alternative items, convert RL cash to gems in preparation, and otherwise spend more on the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rotating inventory does a couple of things > > > > > > > > * It reduces clutter, making items more noticeable > > > > > > > > * It reduces "saturation," the "familiarity breeds contempt" problem, in which people start to take items for granted, and therefore feel they are less desirable. > > > > > > > > * It creates artificial urgency: if know I can always buy something, there's less pressure to buy when it becomes available. > > > > > > > > * It keeps people paying attention to the gem shop. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There's a reason that artificial scarcity is used by retailers worldwide for, well, since there have been retailers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > yah but it seems predatory and manipulative and negative. > > > > > > > > > > > > Pretty standard marketing. > > > > > > All businesses have a predatory element, even your local library > > > > > > > > > > somehow that makes it ok? what you said? > > > > > > > > It makes it common and everyday because they’re using human psychology. Just watch commercials and you’ll see plenty of “buy now while supplies last” pitches. For example, just today I saw an advertisement for a holiday version of a brand name chocolate which was saying “hurry up and get it now. Supply ends at the end of the year.” That’s artificial scarcity right there as the only reason supply ends at the end of the year is to pressure people to “buy before it’s gone”. > > > > > > > > > > lol just because its common, doesn't make it right, or any less negative. > > > > Businesses have 1 goal: make money. If they manage to do so while making consumers happy or cater to consumer needs, etc. even better. > > > > Guild Wars 2 has no subscription fee. This is a boon and a detriment. You have to take the good with the bad. Does this justify every type of monetization or exploitation or approach to make money? Not if the company wants to remain loved and supported by fans and customers. Does this mean they are allowed to try to sell their goods in an as effective way as possible? Sure. > > > > Are you offended by bright and colorful advertisements for kids? What about flashy car commercials for men (and women)? There is a line which should not be crossed (say loot boxes in all those cellphone games targeted at kids). Offering cosmetic and game irrelevant services in an efficient way is not it imo. > > I actually agree with lootboxes, i think parents just dont watch their kids. But holding out on items like they are girl scout cookies, is just blatent psychological manipulation. I disagree with anything that is artificial + limited time, if i want to buy it, i should be able to whenever, otherwise its just total BS. When its a gatcha game I feel like its more transparent and you know the odds of getting something upfront. WHen they take it away for no reason like oh gee its limited time, it feels predatory much more so then offering a game of chance. Likewise, when gatcha games do limited time banners I think those are predatory as well, and 99% of most gatcha horror stories come from limited time banners (ie. girlscout cookie phenomena) How in the world do you think artificial scarcity is predatory but are ok with lootboxes which have scarce items inside with unknown drop rates? Lootboxes are also working on people’s impulses and their inability to see when odds are not in their favor and are far more predatory. Lootboxes are an extreme version of artificial scarcity as some items can’t be obtained in another way and they are only available while in the lootboxes and only if you’re lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Lumpix.6108 Posted December 24, 2018 Share Posted December 24, 2018 > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > @"Ayakaru.6583" said: > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Davion Roth.6709" said: > > > > > > > > > > I agree, I think things should always be available to buy, and I think they'd make more money. > > > > > > > > > The fact is that companies make less money when items are always available. While plenty of people are blocked from purchasing, many more people will spend more time in game, look at alternative items, convert RL cash to gems in preparation, and otherwise spend more on the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rotating inventory does a couple of things > > > > > > > > > * It reduces clutter, making items more noticeable > > > > > > > > > * It reduces "saturation," the "familiarity breeds contempt" problem, in which people start to take items for granted, and therefore feel they are less desirable. > > > > > > > > > * It creates artificial urgency: if know I can always buy something, there's less pressure to buy when it becomes available. > > > > > > > > > * It keeps people paying attention to the gem shop. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There's a reason that artificial scarcity is used by retailers worldwide for, well, since there have been retailers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > yah but it seems predatory and manipulative and negative. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pretty standard marketing. > > > > > > > All businesses have a predatory element, even your local library > > > > > > > > > > > > somehow that makes it ok? what you said? > > > > > > > > > > It makes it common and everyday because they’re using human psychology. Just watch commercials and you’ll see plenty of “buy now while supplies last” pitches. For example, just today I saw an advertisement for a holiday version of a brand name chocolate which was saying “hurry up and get it now. Supply ends at the end of the year.” That’s artificial scarcity right there as the only reason supply ends at the end of the year is to pressure people to “buy before it’s gone”. > > > > > > > > > > > > > lol just because its common, doesn't make it right, or any less negative. > > > > > > Businesses have 1 goal: make money. If they manage to do so while making consumers happy or cater to consumer needs, etc. even better. > > > > > > Guild Wars 2 has no subscription fee. This is a boon and a detriment. You have to take the good with the bad. Does this justify every type of monetization or exploitation or approach to make money? Not if the company wants to remain loved and supported by fans and customers. Does this mean they are allowed to try to sell their goods in an as effective way as possible? Sure. > > > > > > Are you offended by bright and colorful advertisements for kids? What about flashy car commercials for men (and women)? There is a line which should not be crossed (say loot boxes in all those cellphone games targeted at kids). Offering cosmetic and game irrelevant services in an efficient way is not it imo. > > > > I actually agree with lootboxes, i think parents just dont watch their kids. But holding out on items like they are girl scout cookies, is just blatent psychological manipulation. I disagree with anything that is artificial + limited time, if i want to buy it, i should be able to whenever, otherwise its just total BS. When its a gatcha game I feel like its more transparent and you know the odds of getting something upfront. WHen they take it away for no reason like oh gee its limited time, it feels predatory much more so then offering a game of chance. Likewise, when gatcha games do limited time banners I think those are predatory as well, and 99% of most gatcha horror stories come from limited time banners (ie. girlscout cookie phenomena) > > How in the world do you think artificial scarcity is predatory but are ok with lootboxes which have scarce items inside with unknown drop rates? Lootboxes are also working on people’s impulses and their inability to see when odds are not in their favor and are far more predatory. Lootboxes are an extreme version of artificial scarcity as some items can’t be obtained in another way and they are only available while in the lootboxes and only if you’re lucky. gatcha games are required to post their drop rates, so its not unknown. Lootboxes are no more addictive then paint thinner is at the hardware store, why dont we just ban those too, since people could potentially misuse those and not be able to control themselves and get addicted to those as well. Artificial scarcity is exactly as it says, artificial and in my opinion predatory and thus negative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just a flesh wound.3589 Posted December 24, 2018 Share Posted December 24, 2018 > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > @"Ayakaru.6583" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Davion Roth.6709" said: > > > > > > > > > > > I agree, I think things should always be available to buy, and I think they'd make more money. > > > > > > > > > > The fact is that companies make less money when items are always available. While plenty of people are blocked from purchasing, many more people will spend more time in game, look at alternative items, convert RL cash to gems in preparation, and otherwise spend more on the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rotating inventory does a couple of things > > > > > > > > > > * It reduces clutter, making items more noticeable > > > > > > > > > > * It reduces "saturation," the "familiarity breeds contempt" problem, in which people start to take items for granted, and therefore feel they are less desirable. > > > > > > > > > > * It creates artificial urgency: if know I can always buy something, there's less pressure to buy when it becomes available. > > > > > > > > > > * It keeps people paying attention to the gem shop. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There's a reason that artificial scarcity is used by retailers worldwide for, well, since there have been retailers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > yah but it seems predatory and manipulative and negative. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pretty standard marketing. > > > > > > > > All businesses have a predatory element, even your local library > > > > > > > > > > > > > > somehow that makes it ok? what you said? > > > > > > > > > > > > It makes it common and everyday because they’re using human psychology. Just watch commercials and you’ll see plenty of “buy now while supplies last” pitches. For example, just today I saw an advertisement for a holiday version of a brand name chocolate which was saying “hurry up and get it now. Supply ends at the end of the year.” That’s artificial scarcity right there as the only reason supply ends at the end of the year is to pressure people to “buy before it’s gone”. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > lol just because its common, doesn't make it right, or any less negative. > > > > > > > > Businesses have 1 goal: make money. If they manage to do so while making consumers happy or cater to consumer needs, etc. even better. > > > > > > > > Guild Wars 2 has no subscription fee. This is a boon and a detriment. You have to take the good with the bad. Does this justify every type of monetization or exploitation or approach to make money? Not if the company wants to remain loved and supported by fans and customers. Does this mean they are allowed to try to sell their goods in an as effective way as possible? Sure. > > > > > > > > Are you offended by bright and colorful advertisements for kids? What about flashy car commercials for men (and women)? There is a line which should not be crossed (say loot boxes in all those cellphone games targeted at kids). Offering cosmetic and game irrelevant services in an efficient way is not it imo. > > > > > > I actually agree with lootboxes, i think parents just dont watch their kids. But holding out on items like they are girl scout cookies, is just blatent psychological manipulation. I disagree with anything that is artificial + limited time, if i want to buy it, i should be able to whenever, otherwise its just total BS. When its a gatcha game I feel like its more transparent and you know the odds of getting something upfront. WHen they take it away for no reason like oh gee its limited time, it feels predatory much more so then offering a game of chance. Likewise, when gatcha games do limited time banners I think those are predatory as well, and 99% of most gatcha horror stories come from limited time banners (ie. girlscout cookie phenomena) > > > > How in the world do you think artificial scarcity is predatory but are ok with lootboxes which have scarce items inside with unknown drop rates? Lootboxes are also working on people’s impulses and their inability to see when odds are not in their favor and are far more predatory. Lootboxes are an extreme version of artificial scarcity as some items can’t be obtained in another way and they are only available while in the lootboxes and only if you’re lucky. > > gatcha games are required to post their drop rates, so its not unknown. Lootboxes are no more addictive then paint thinner is at the hardware store, why dont we just ban those too, since people could potentially misuse those and not be able to control themselves and get addicted to those as well. Artificial scarcity is exactly as it says, artificial and in my opinion predatory and thus negative. Like I said, lootboxes are extreme versions of artificial scarcity. 1) You can’t buy the most desired items directly but are required to buy and trust to luck (that’s one level of artificially restricting access to an item as not everyone will get the desired item even after multiple purchases) 2) are only in there for a short time and then they’re gone. (Second level of artificial scarcity, the type you are offended by) To be offended by regular artificial scarcity but not by far more predatory artificial scarcity in a box with a shiny come-on is not being consistent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Lumpix.6108 Posted December 24, 2018 Share Posted December 24, 2018 > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Ayakaru.6583" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Davion Roth.6709" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree, I think things should always be available to buy, and I think they'd make more money. > > > > > > > > > > > The fact is that companies make less money when items are always available. While plenty of people are blocked from purchasing, many more people will spend more time in game, look at alternative items, convert RL cash to gems in preparation, and otherwise spend more on the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rotating inventory does a couple of things > > > > > > > > > > > * It reduces clutter, making items more noticeable > > > > > > > > > > > * It reduces "saturation," the "familiarity breeds contempt" problem, in which people start to take items for granted, and therefore feel they are less desirable. > > > > > > > > > > > * It creates artificial urgency: if know I can always buy something, there's less pressure to buy when it becomes available. > > > > > > > > > > > * It keeps people paying attention to the gem shop. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There's a reason that artificial scarcity is used by retailers worldwide for, well, since there have been retailers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > yah but it seems predatory and manipulative and negative. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pretty standard marketing. > > > > > > > > > All businesses have a predatory element, even your local library > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > somehow that makes it ok? what you said? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It makes it common and everyday because they’re using human psychology. Just watch commercials and you’ll see plenty of “buy now while supplies last” pitches. For example, just today I saw an advertisement for a holiday version of a brand name chocolate which was saying “hurry up and get it now. Supply ends at the end of the year.” That’s artificial scarcity right there as the only reason supply ends at the end of the year is to pressure people to “buy before it’s gone”. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > lol just because its common, doesn't make it right, or any less negative. > > > > > > > > > > Businesses have 1 goal: make money. If they manage to do so while making consumers happy or cater to consumer needs, etc. even better. > > > > > > > > > > Guild Wars 2 has no subscription fee. This is a boon and a detriment. You have to take the good with the bad. Does this justify every type of monetization or exploitation or approach to make money? Not if the company wants to remain loved and supported by fans and customers. Does this mean they are allowed to try to sell their goods in an as effective way as possible? Sure. > > > > > > > > > > Are you offended by bright and colorful advertisements for kids? What about flashy car commercials for men (and women)? There is a line which should not be crossed (say loot boxes in all those cellphone games targeted at kids). Offering cosmetic and game irrelevant services in an efficient way is not it imo. > > > > > > > > I actually agree with lootboxes, i think parents just dont watch their kids. But holding out on items like they are girl scout cookies, is just blatent psychological manipulation. I disagree with anything that is artificial + limited time, if i want to buy it, i should be able to whenever, otherwise its just total BS. When its a gatcha game I feel like its more transparent and you know the odds of getting something upfront. WHen they take it away for no reason like oh gee its limited time, it feels predatory much more so then offering a game of chance. Likewise, when gatcha games do limited time banners I think those are predatory as well, and 99% of most gatcha horror stories come from limited time banners (ie. girlscout cookie phenomena) > > > > > > How in the world do you think artificial scarcity is predatory but are ok with lootboxes which have scarce items inside with unknown drop rates? Lootboxes are also working on people’s impulses and their inability to see when odds are not in their favor and are far more predatory. Lootboxes are an extreme version of artificial scarcity as some items can’t be obtained in another way and they are only available while in the lootboxes and only if you’re lucky. > > > > gatcha games are required to post their drop rates, so its not unknown. Lootboxes are no more addictive then paint thinner is at the hardware store, why dont we just ban those too, since people could potentially misuse those and not be able to control themselves and get addicted to those as well. Artificial scarcity is exactly as it says, artificial and in my opinion predatory and thus negative. > > Like I said, lootboxes are extreme versions of artificial scarcity. > 1) You can’t buy the most desired items directly but are required to buy and trust to luck (that’s one level of artificially restricting access to an item as not everyone will get the desired item even after multiple purchases) > 2) are only in there for a short time and then they’re gone. (Second level of artificial scarcity, the type you are offended by) > > To be offended by regular artificial scarcity but not by far more predatory artificial scarcity in a box with a shiny come-on is not being consistent. Loot boxes are a set thing, they show you the odds and you know what you're getting into. Simply taking content away and making it unavailable for purchase in order to induce psychological panic, which then spurs customers to buy something immediately that they might hava preferred to buy at a later date due to financial constraints is just downright manipulation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Lumpix.6108 Posted December 24, 2018 Share Posted December 24, 2018 > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > @"Ayakaru.6583" said: > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said: > > > > > > > > @"Davion Roth.6709" said: > > > > > > > > I agree, I think things should always be available to buy, and I think they'd make more money. > > > > > > > The fact is that companies make less money when items are always available. While plenty of people are blocked from purchasing, many more people will spend more time in game, look at alternative items, convert RL cash to gems in preparation, and otherwise spend more on the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rotating inventory does a couple of things > > > > > > > * It reduces clutter, making items more noticeable > > > > > > > * It reduces "saturation," the "familiarity breeds contempt" problem, in which people start to take items for granted, and therefore feel they are less desirable. > > > > > > > * It creates artificial urgency: if know I can always buy something, there's less pressure to buy when it becomes available. > > > > > > > * It keeps people paying attention to the gem shop. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There's a reason that artificial scarcity is used by retailers worldwide for, well, since there have been retailers. > > > > > > > > > > > > yah but it seems predatory and manipulative and negative. > > > > > > > > > > Pretty standard marketing. > > > > > All businesses have a predatory element, even your local library > > > > > > > > somehow that makes it ok? what you said? > > > > > > It makes it common and everyday because they’re using human psychology. Just watch commercials and you’ll see plenty of “buy now while supplies last” pitches. For example, just today I saw an advertisement for a holiday version of a brand name chocolate which was saying “hurry up and get it now. Supply ends at the end of the year.” That’s artificial scarcity right there as the only reason supply ends at the end of the year is to pressure people to “buy before it’s gone”. > > > > > > > lol just because its common, doesn't make it right, or any less negative. > > But it does make it profitable which is what businesses care about. The people who own or have stock in businesses have a right for a business to do what it can within the laws to turn a profit. It’s not reasonable to expect a business to ignore human behavior when they’re selling their goods. Businesses that ignore human behavior will be outsold by business that don’t ignore human behavior and will go out of business, causing the people that depend on them to lose their jobs and the stock owners to lose money, which makes it not right for them. Every situation has two sides. > This sounds like entitlement. I don't think businesses or stockholders have a right to abuse peoples psychology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just a flesh wound.3589 Posted December 24, 2018 Share Posted December 24, 2018 > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Ayakaru.6583" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Davion Roth.6709" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree, I think things should always be available to buy, and I think they'd make more money. > > > > > > > > > > > > The fact is that companies make less money when items are always available. While plenty of people are blocked from purchasing, many more people will spend more time in game, look at alternative items, convert RL cash to gems in preparation, and otherwise spend more on the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rotating inventory does a couple of things > > > > > > > > > > > > * It reduces clutter, making items more noticeable > > > > > > > > > > > > * It reduces "saturation," the "familiarity breeds contempt" problem, in which people start to take items for granted, and therefore feel they are less desirable. > > > > > > > > > > > > * It creates artificial urgency: if know I can always buy something, there's less pressure to buy when it becomes available. > > > > > > > > > > > > * It keeps people paying attention to the gem shop. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There's a reason that artificial scarcity is used by retailers worldwide for, well, since there have been retailers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > yah but it seems predatory and manipulative and negative. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pretty standard marketing. > > > > > > > > > > All businesses have a predatory element, even your local library > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > somehow that makes it ok? what you said? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It makes it common and everyday because they’re using human psychology. Just watch commercials and you’ll see plenty of “buy now while supplies last” pitches. For example, just today I saw an advertisement for a holiday version of a brand name chocolate which was saying “hurry up and get it now. Supply ends at the end of the year.” That’s artificial scarcity right there as the only reason supply ends at the end of the year is to pressure people to “buy before it’s gone”. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > lol just because its common, doesn't make it right, or any less negative. > > > > > > > > > > > > Businesses have 1 goal: make money. If they manage to do so while making consumers happy or cater to consumer needs, etc. even better. > > > > > > > > > > > > Guild Wars 2 has no subscription fee. This is a boon and a detriment. You have to take the good with the bad. Does this justify every type of monetization or exploitation or approach to make money? Not if the company wants to remain loved and supported by fans and customers. Does this mean they are allowed to try to sell their goods in an as effective way as possible? Sure. > > > > > > > > > > > > Are you offended by bright and colorful advertisements for kids? What about flashy car commercials for men (and women)? There is a line which should not be crossed (say loot boxes in all those cellphone games targeted at kids). Offering cosmetic and game irrelevant services in an efficient way is not it imo. > > > > > > > > > > I actually agree with lootboxes, i think parents just dont watch their kids. But holding out on items like they are girl scout cookies, is just blatent psychological manipulation. I disagree with anything that is artificial + limited time, if i want to buy it, i should be able to whenever, otherwise its just total BS. When its a gatcha game I feel like its more transparent and you know the odds of getting something upfront. WHen they take it away for no reason like oh gee its limited time, it feels predatory much more so then offering a game of chance. Likewise, when gatcha games do limited time banners I think those are predatory as well, and 99% of most gatcha horror stories come from limited time banners (ie. girlscout cookie phenomena) > > > > > > > > How in the world do you think artificial scarcity is predatory but are ok with lootboxes which have scarce items inside with unknown drop rates? Lootboxes are also working on people’s impulses and their inability to see when odds are not in their favor and are far more predatory. Lootboxes are an extreme version of artificial scarcity as some items can’t be obtained in another way and they are only available while in the lootboxes and only if you’re lucky. > > > > > > gatcha games are required to post their drop rates, so its not unknown. Lootboxes are no more addictive then paint thinner is at the hardware store, why dont we just ban those too, since people could potentially misuse those and not be able to control themselves and get addicted to those as well. Artificial scarcity is exactly as it says, artificial and in my opinion predatory and thus negative. > > > > Like I said, lootboxes are extreme versions of artificial scarcity. > > 1) You can’t buy the most desired items directly but are required to buy and trust to luck (that’s one level of artificially restricting access to an item as not everyone will get the desired item even after multiple purchases) > > 2) are only in there for a short time and then they’re gone. (Second level of artificial scarcity, the type you are offended by) > > > > To be offended by regular artificial scarcity but not by far more predatory artificial scarcity in a box with a shiny come-on is not being consistent. > > Loot boxes are a set thing, they show you the odds and you know what you're getting into. Simply taking content away and making it unavailable for purchase in order to induce psychological panic, which then spurs customers to buy something immediately that they might hava preferred to buy at a later date due to financial constraints is just downright manipulation. You’re seeing artificial scarcity as only when companies limit purchases by time. But it’s when companies _artificially limit purchases by any method in order to drive up sales and increase profits by manipulating people’s emotions_. Restriction by time is only one method used. Loot boxes have two types of artificial scarcity. 1) time 2) access of the item restricted by RNG Loot boxes manipulate people’s emotions by 2 methods. 1) Artificial scarcity by time which makes people want to “buy now” 2) how people react to RNG drops. Even with published drop rates people overestimate their chances of getting what they want, leading them to spend more money than if the company were to sell the item directly. As an example, the Grasping Ghosts glider only available in the Black Lion chests during set periods of time. The set period of time of availability is the type you are aware of and the second artificial scarcity is the restriction through RNG access. A buyer can log on during that time (he passes the artificial time checkpoint), attempt to get the glider multiple times and never get it (because he failed the RNG artificial access checkpoint). Therefore a lootboxes has two artificial scarcity checkpoints, time and RNG. Which makes them far more predatory because 1) an RNG checkpoint costs the buyer money per attempt and doesn’t guarantee the desired item 2) loot boxes manipulate people’s emotions by two methods, not just one like time based artificial scarcity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Lumpix.6108 Posted December 24, 2018 Share Posted December 24, 2018 But not all loot boxes are affected by time. In my opinion only when the contents are available for a limited time is it predatory. If a loot box has content that is always available but players have limited access to its content due to rng, then I feel it's no different then playing gw2 itself or any other mmo that has random drops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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