Let us Be Real and Honest

[Kuulpb.5412]

What are your thoughts on the Elite specs AND their New weapons a week after release?

Here's mine:

 

Spellbreaker - Very fast and Fun, Daggers are a bit weak (Dagger + Rifle dmg buff plz)

Firebrand - Love the Tomes, but the pages not regenerating is a bit.. weird.. are you ripping them out of the book? - Axe feels.... odd.

Renegade - Overall meh, Not a great Weapon, not a great set of utilities, not a great Lore mix.

 

Soulbeast - Love the design, Hate the aura effect, Dagger feels a bit slow.

Deadeye - Initially loved the theme of snipers, after playing it's... meh imho, Strong but meh,

Holosmith - never meshed well with me, still doesn't, Sword (I called it 3 years ago) seems quite nice with the heat mechanic giving it up to 25% crit chance extra.

 

Mirage - Seems interesting, the axe is fun, but doesn't change Mesmer too much.

Weaver - In my opinion a bit bland, Sword feels slow and clunky

Scourge - Too strong, Seriously, Summon 3 shades, spam f2-5 everything is dead... and you still have life force spare, Torch I was excited for as I had no clue what it would do, Turns out it's basically just a focus, as in, very little to do with it is burning (lore), Hit the ground, and make the sand attack is basically all I can think of.

 

 

What do you people think? I ask because In the Warrior section of forums, I compared Warrior to Deadeye daggers + Rifle, and how thieves do more damage, then I went to thief forums to have a look, and they're complaining about how rifle is weak, so it got me thinking that since everyone is different, they might love and hate some specs differently.

 

 

[Thornwolf.9721]

I feel like renegade got the worst stick in the hat so to speak, I mean the necro's shades are unkillable and last a duration and cant be CC'd once so ever. But the Renegades spirits get Cc'd, can be killed and are expensive in energy cost and come with a duration. They are pretty freaking useless in most situations and offer NOTHING in most encounters where the enemy will simply AOE, and if the get CC'd then its game over. Icerazor de-summons once he actually is CC'd successfully.

 

Should of made them minion skills with their passive effects there as long as they remain alive, and they should of made THEM the F1-5 skills seeing as those skills seem to be pretty useless, well at least the bombardment is useless. To top that off its scaling is horrible, and the benefits to your team seem weak if its supposed to be a team based spec. Had they made them minion skills they could of made the utilities useful, and allowed to spec to shine and have synergy more so with the other specs as it could offer some cool trade-offs. Maybe the F1-5 skills change with each legend? Offering different minions who do different things? This could make this spec the spiritual successor to the "Ritualist" who seems to be in high demand in the fan-base.

 

Hell why not just make the Ritualist or even something Akin to a Hybrid between the Ritualist and the dervish, making it get main-hand scepter and offhand focus? Or dual wield focus(never done before), and let it be a pure caster? You then could have the Legend be Razah who first appeared in the after-math of the conflict with abaddon the first time we entered this portion of the world. Or even varresh orsa, or abaddon himself as they would all offer some really unique depth to the fact that it is THEY alongside you who is standing against balthazar. And since they made abaddon a "Good guy" Wrong-fully misunderstood by his bretheren and balthazar was the first to rush to fight against him, they could of made abaddon be present in this conflict.( I know he is dead but his echo and essence might still exist within the mist, as it seems that it does not simply work like our conception of the afterlife)

 

Abaddon could of had some really interesting dialouge and been more lore friendly then Kalla who does not even have anything to do with this, hell when you ask the class guy in Amnoon he is like "Oh yeah the renegades just showed up, using the power of some charr named blah blah blah". The spec itself was not rooted in the desert, the others seemed to be tied in some way to the expansion zones/story... Renegade was not, and also seems to have the worst kit.. ( I still love it... just dont see how its strong by any means... But I love Rev as a whole.)

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

Spellbreaker: Do not have a warrior.

Soulbeast: Do not have a ranger.

Weaver: have no fully tested it out yet.

 

Deadeye: The one I'm having the most fun with. Simple to understand, has niche use, and it is the most balanced out of the new specs. The traits provide multiple ways to play, and the ability to stack a lot of might is a blessing in PUGs. It suffers from a pretty bad bug with it's signature weapon. Also, "balanced" doesn't mean much when the power creep is real, so in spite of my enjoyment it is one of the worst specializations this time.

 

Holosmith: Continues the engineer's curse of requiring a massive amount of effort for minuscule returns. The class feels more like maintenance than playing. But, the holosmith makes the engineer sacrifice most utility to get the marginal damage boost, and it does little more than simple damage. The traits are good, the weapon is terrible unless you pick specific traits, and the photon forge is unremarkable.

 

Renegade: I'm not sure much of this is bad design or intended design, but most of this spec simply doesn't work. The weapon is on the low end of mediocre, the utilities are theoretically powerful but bad in practice, the traits are dull and don't add much variety to the spec, and the function skills are generally unreliable. But, it has high modifiers and serves as a secondary condition line, so it keeps up with the power creep in the expansion.

 

Firebrand: It was difficult to first learn, and I still am, but so far it is doing really well. The damage is way too high, but it has good support skills. The mantras and weapons are fairly bland, but an elite that can spam stunbreaks is pretty good. The traits are good, and this class can heal, be really supportive, or do heavy damage.

 

Mirage: Needs some serious buffs. It is a boost to the condi mesmer, but it isn't enough to make condi mesmer noticeable. It also isn't enough to make a clone focused build good enough. The mechanics are obtuse and it is hard to figure out exactly what mirage is supposed to do. Has no supporting traits or skills, and the traits are generally bad. High maintenance, and little returns for it.

 

Scourge: High maintenance, but actually good. Does way too much damage, but the area control is really useful. The traits are pretty simple, though, and don't offer much diversity outside of running 2/2/2 for PVE.

[FaboBabo.3581]

Mirage , bugged. Staff ambush bugged , axe 3 bugged , illusionary bugged. Fix bugs first , then go Over to QoL changes.

 

Whatever drastic change of Playstyle vs chrono. When chrono sits arround doing nothing except blocking , mirage weaves over the Battlefield applying interrupts.

[Kreed.2768]

Deadeye has good traits and utilities, interesting mark and malice mechanics, but the rifle is just undertuned compared to other thief weapons, even double pistols. It needs some buffs, because right now it's a weapon that enforces turret-type play with a single piercing skill, build up time for damage, and very high initiative costs.

[Kuulpb.5412]

> @Kreed.2768 said:

> Deadeye has good traits and utilities, interesting mark and malice mechanics, but the rifle is just undertuned compared to other thief weapons, even double pistols. It needs some buffs, because right now it's a weapon that enforces turret-type play with a single piercing skill, build up time for damage, and very high initiative costs.

 

I'm still waiting for War Rifle buffs :D I want my "Rifle shots pierce" Trait back.

[otto.5684]

Have not played everything but so far:

 

FB: strong in PvE. Recasting mantras when you change map go underwater or die is super annoying. It does not work in PvP cuz the tomes do not work in PvP.

 

Renegade: terrrible all round. You get a mediocre ranged weapon and can do a bit more dps in raid scenario. Not even remotely viable in PvP.

 

Weaver: did not test too much. I preferred tempest.

 

Dead eye: pretty niche, though works with all weapons.

 

Spell breaker: needs a PvE buff.

 

I have played enough PvP to note that scourge and spell breakers are extremely broken. I have seen holo smith and dead eye full some niches, but are not that strong. All other new elities are not viable PvP wise.

[TheSlothArmada.6709]

I don't care about any of the PoF elite specs.

I won't be switching any of my classes' elite specs from their HoT ones.

Since I only play Chronomancer, Druid, Berserker, and Reaper, changing my elite spec would ruin my ability to buff or would just result in a downgrade.

Scourge is the only one I'd be willing to change to, but I hate torches.

[savacli.8172]

From a comedic standpoint, it realyl just looks like the devs mashed two classes together to make the new elites.

 

Spellbreaker: Meditation Warrior

Deadeye: Rifle Warrior Teef

Mirage: Teefy Mesmer

Firebrand: Kits Guard

Scourge: Shatter Necro

Holosmith: Heat Shroud Engi

Renegade: Spirit Rev

Soulbeast: ~~Legend~~ Beast Channeling Ranger

Weaver: Super Ele

 

On a more serious note: I like how most of the PoF Elites contrast their HoT Elites to add more diversity to class choices. Not perfect or 100% polished by any means, but the general direction of the Elites was overall well done.

[Kreed.2768]

> @Kuulpb.5412 said:

> > @Kreed.2768 said:

> > Deadeye has good traits and utilities, interesting mark and malice mechanics, but the rifle is just undertuned compared to other thief weapons, even double pistols. It needs some buffs, because right now it's a weapon that enforces turret-type play with a single piercing skill, build up time for damage, and very high initiative costs.

>

> I'm still waiting for War Rifle buffs :D I want my "Rifle shots pierce" Trait back.

 

Hah, yeah. Like it wasn't hard enough already with all the projectile hate the game currently has across all modes of play.

[Biggabrudda.3641]

I agree that the current aura effect around soulbeast's aura is annoying. My suggestion to arena net would be to add an option that removes player visual effects like the soulbeast aura as well as others like a revanent's glow around their wrists.

[Svarty.8019]

> @Kuulpb.5412 said:

> Weaver - In my opinion a bit bland, Sword feels slow and clunky

DRINK!

#PoFClunkyDrinkingGame

[Dark Schneider.7841]

Can only write for the Firebrand:

Mantras are nice to Spam

The activation of a Tome - the swap to the Tome-Abilities

should be somehow instant, sometimes in battle I really have to smack F1, F2 or F3 multiple times

until it finally swaps to the abilities, a little bit frustrating sometimes.

Well and the Axe - to slow for me, I stick with the 1hand Sword, its so much faster

[Conncept.7638]

Weaver is amazing, needs tweaking numberwise but I suspect most of the new specs do, a few of the old weapons feel really clunky and impossible to pull off any combos with compared to the smooth-as-butter and combo heavy sword and staff.

 

The mirage is fun, but much like the chronomancer, it feels like what the base class should have been like from the start, tricky, not a mindless bomb spammer with all the subtlety and finesse of beating someone with a barrage of well worn bricks.

 

Scourge is okay-ish, powerful but clunky, and kind of boring to be honest. I don't know about PvP but in PvE they have the same problems as the base mesmers phantasms, their CDs are such that they feel like they hold you back from progressing through content, and are nigh unusable in certain content.

 

Firebrand is in a similar place to scourge, powerful but clunky, possibly even clunkier than the scourge. Also, adding bleed to the class also feels very much like a copout, and they should have put in the work for a guardian unique mechanic that kepts its unique mono-condition flavor without compromising on power. Also, going to say this forever, it's a waste of design space to have tomes as a class skill instead of a new weapon type, and the axe, thematically speaking, doesn't fit the firebrand at all anyway. If they couldn't do new weapons in this xpac, they should have saved tomes for when they could, now it's going to forever be a lazy-appearing mar on the game.

 

Soulbeast is good minus the new class mechanic, which feels like its just a softened version of the same bias the design team has always had against the base ranger. Players want the option to make beastmode form permanent, and that should be accommodated. When it was clear not all holosmiths would to stave off heat but instead work towards it, that playstyle was accommodated with a GM trait changing the function of forge mode; a similar accommodation needs to be given to beastmode.

 

The remaining four I haven't really got to yet, just fully unlocked one of them today but haven't had the time or materials to try it out with any build.

[green plum.7514]

I tried Mirage, Firebrand and Holosmith. Mirage I find very confusing to play, and in the end I don't feel like it brings anything essential to the table. Firebrand I really like, but the profession is so incredibly slow and unwieldy (e.g. mantra losing charges on map change) that its bothersome to play in open world. Holosmith feels to me like much less forgiving Reaper that will explode in your face because you forgot your heat bar.

 

In the end, there eis no new elite that would really match my play style and that I would find enticing. I find myself playing my Reaper again, simply because its the most straightforward profession I know for casual and story content...

[Lambros Augustus.6594]

Honestly and truthfully I want them to be all like scourge super powerful. I like the feeling that as long as I am moving and actively playing i can kill all 60 mobs in this one area cause they got no leash and are mount magnets.

[Ace Woodlink.1863]

Renegade has really shone for me. My Revenant has gone from being absurdly glassy back when I was trying to do sword/shield in HoT, to actually being able to do some group damage when the Corruption traitline got completely revamped and I switched my gear to condi, to completely dropping Herald in LS3 and attempting to use Jalis for the hammers for sustain, to today where I can actually solo a group of enemies without gimping my build.

 

It's been a long journey, but it has truly paid off.

[Ardent Heretic.8216]

> @"Ace Woodlink.1863" said:

> Renegade has really shone for me. My Revenant has gone from being absurdly glassy back when I was trying to do sword/shield in HoT, to actually being able to do some group damage when the Corruption traitline got completely revamped and I switched my gear to condi, to completely dropping Herald in LS3 and attempting to use Jalis for the hammers for sustain, to today where I can actually solo a group of enemies without gimping my build.

>

> It's been a long journey, but it has truly paid off.

 

As a Rev main myself, I'm a bit surprised. My experience is that Herald was very sustainable even in zerker gear. I find Renegade lacking in survival but very much improved in damage output.

[HyperLooser.2698]

Renegade massively needs CC immune summons, theres simply too much AoE CC spam from enemies in this game. In Hot maps they are pretty much useless and even if i tactically position them, the enemy just magically rolls over with knockdown. Its either they get insta CC the moment they get summoned or they get CC after being out only for like 20% of the full duration.

 

really like these summons as an idea and if they don't get CC'd they are amazing, which basically only happens when i do lower than lvl 60 maps.

 

At least the trait line itself is amazing and synergies very well with core trait lines. And i absolutely love Citadel Bombardment, though the energy cost is quite high for something which doesn't deal that great damage or well its damage isn't really the problem, but that it lacks any kind of homing so it really becomes a big RNG whether it deals lots of damage or super low damage.

[Lyros.4673]

I'll throw in my input onto the two classes that I've been messing with so far. All of the latter comes from general PVE experience.

 

Really not a fan of deadeye; a full power/zerker build might make it reasonably effective in PVE but there's not much I really like about it otherwise, as you have to commit entirely to it in order to make it work. The whole "melee damage at range" is sort of redundant when it's relatively easy to close the distances in PVE and melee damage actually has cleave. In reality you're isolated to dealing single target melee damage at range while being immobile. It may be more useful in small groups against bosses but most of the time you're absolutely swarming around any big bosses to the point that it hardly matters. It's still fun to play but the ideaology and balance of limiting its damage to being only as good as melee at range only works in PVP. As for PVE, why would I do anything but melee? It also feels extremely initiative heavy to build up proper damage even with Trickery, so I'm back to using base thief.

 

Soulbeast I'm having a great time with. I've been using a Carrion Armor/Trapper/Nightmare Runed Armor + Viper Trinket condition build with Dagger/Torch and Shortbow. I have't used Ranger much beforehand but I'm certainly enjoying the large amounts of condition damage it offers. It's surprisingly effective against groups of enemies with Torch and Shortbow offering more cleave than Dagger could ever wish for, while some Soulbeast abilities give a good synergy with access to some AOEs. The variety of pets almost makes me wish I could equip more than two at once as a result of the vary effectiveness and utility of them. That being said, some pet-merges are lackluster and clearly underpowered compared to HoT and PoF pets which leaves a somewhat sour taste in my mouth. In addition, stances are next to useless in general PVE content. They last too short to even be remotely satisfying, in addition to their general effects being severely undertuned. I even doubt their usefulness in PVP. In my opinion the stances should be worked to full-uptime, actual STANCES that confer both a buff and a debuff. That however, would be more technically difficult to implement so I'm not really planning on using them. For the moment I'm using the Survival utilities in conjunction due to easy access to condition clear and general utility. It's amusing to draw the aggro of Jade Constructs in bloodstone fen with the condition damage while trying to heal everyone else that got downed in a few blows.

[Harry Foud.1935]

**Soulbeast**: Very fun. I love the aura and the dagger attacks.

**Firebrand**: I enjoy the tomes and I believe he has the most beautiful animations in the game.

**Deadeye**: Great concept. Doesn't work well on pve. Does a very good dmg in pvp and wvw but people need to realize that you are a sniper and not a thief. If you keep playing like u used to, you gonna get owned.

**Weaver**: No opinion, he looks fun. Way to many spells for me but I believe he does good dmg.

**Holosmith**: Again no opinion. I love the lightsaber.

**Renegade**: Uhm..."meh" Revenant as a class has great potential with the lore of summoning legends but Renegade is not so good imo. The fact that the spirits can be killed cc'd etc make them kinda..disfuctional.

**Spellbreaker**: Extremely op! Dagger/shield-gs build is a joke cause you are Immortal while killing 3 people alone.

**Scourge**: I don't think I need to say how op he is. Also let's adress the fact that people in pvp lobby are asking to party with scourges or spellbreakers without even asking whats their tier because even if you are bronze you just do that much dmg.

**Mirage**: Bugged and what exactly is he suppose to do? Staff ambush bugged and useless cause the orb goes in a straight line. Axe 2 bugged. Axe 3 bugged and rng. Traits got no synergy. Dmg is low even after the buff. Feels like Mesmer. Also thank you for adding a pick up theme with mirrors something that players are hating years now with agis and ventari. Feels like anet first thought the concept and build around a class that offers nothing. The one thing that he is supose to do(single target dmg) is being done better by other classes. Plus everyone on benchmarkes plays condi mirage with a specific build that requires to keep your phantasms alive so your shatters are now gone and you have no clones for ambush skills. Yet everyone plays power on pvp and wvw cause he is better.