Lead Attacks stacks OOC on Deadeye

MUDse.7623 · February 27, 2019

> @"Safandula.8723" said:

> > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > @"Safandula.8723" said:

> > > > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > > > @"Safandula.8723" said:

> > > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > > > > > @"Safandula.8723" said:

> > > > > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"Safandula.8723" said:

> > > > > > > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @"Safandula.8723" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Safandula.8723" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Safandula.8723" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Safandula.8723" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"TorQ.7041" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Safandula.8723" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"TorQ.7041" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Safandula.8723" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"omgdracula.6345" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"omgdracula.6345" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"syszery.1592" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"omgdracula.6345" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"syszery.1592" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And it can be stacked to 15 instead of only 10.. But this works just with rifle -- However, I am not sure if it is a UI bug or if they simply forgot the rifle.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I hopped in game and equipped a rifle with normal D/P build minus Daredevil and no extra DE traits equipped. Just auto attacking golem crits would be between 1380-1580 with no lead attacks. After stacking up to 15 crits would hit for 1500-1890. So I would have to say lead attacks for sure is affecting damage.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hm interesting. So it might even be true 15% then. I wonder why it was not fixed with the last patch...

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Who knows, but its funny that the nerf was meant to hit deadeye a bit but instead buffed it. Kind of.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nope it was meant to reduce prestacked damage modifier, that it was meant to hit deadeye is just what many thieves claim. i have yet to see anet ever state that.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean you're half right. There was really 0 reason for it to be a nerf to the other specs. None of them were over performing by any means. The only thief spec over performing atm is DE in all forms. I mean it hit DE builds without rifle hard, but you could still just stack with rifle then swap.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it might be your opinion that DE is overperforming and the rest is not, but its still false to assume anets intention was to only hit deadeye. they did hit deadeye in the very patch with making DJ blockable and they surely are not too stupid to specifically nerf deadeye more if they wanted to. you might be upset about the current state of core and daredevil but this hostility towards deadeye for performing better and implying that anet is too stupid to get their own intentions into the game wont really help you there.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if u say, de is not overperforming, u must be rly bad, to not be able to use it. every ape can kneel deal some dmg, than use dodge, reposition completly hit with dj... xd Yea ur right, anet didnt say, it was meant to hit de, becouse balancing team sucks and got no idea how to deal with this game. de on ranged deals more dmg than core/dd on melee, with much less chance to get a punishment. Shiryu on mat made 15k, binding shadow DJ combo in MARAUDER kitten gear. if u say, its not overperforming, than nothing will make u improve in this game

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No good deadeye kneels. Watch dduff. Legendary deadeye. Doesn't kneel once. Over preforming at what excatly? Do you see 2-4 every game? Not really. U see one once in a while that about it. Doesn't sound like u play DE at all tbh if u think pressing 3 buttons is all there is to it.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > any spec, that can 1 shot so easilly with so little risk is overperforming. yea i dont play trashspecs, ur right

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then there's no point arguing. You are basically saying u never played it n don't know how it works but it's over performing. It's like saying a car sucks but u never driven it. Makes zero sense.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > U cant even give good exaples. its more like, im not driving a car, but i see its kitten fast.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > so ur also telling, malicious backstabs that dont hit like track with 1 malice have a good tell? ur trolling. give me 1 post, where all ur arguments will be valid and without flaw plz

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the 1. malice adds just 10% dmg to base backstab. we surely can talk about backstab dealing too much damage, but that hardly is a deadeye only issue.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yea malicious backstab is only deadeye issue. Stacking lead attacks in perma stealth with assassins signet with 10+10 dmg modifications (10 from backstab, 10 from trait to marked ppl), HITS LIKE TRUCK, and doing to so easily with no punishment is only DE issue

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > stacking leadattacks in stealth is a bug or your in combat, in wich case you also do it on DD / core, assassins signet again a core ability. so your only argument being the ease of execution - totally something the target has to worry about and surely something you can comment on with your ample playtime of that build.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > core backstab could be easier to apply and deal more damage if the target had an option to react instead of predict. <- this is a core issue.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > I also commented 1 more thing, u forgot.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > "doing it so easily with no punishment"

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > thats exactly what i did comment on. ease of execution.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I don't even mean about ease of execution(it's ofc broken), but rather ease of escape

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > that applies to any thief.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > It was already touched on forum. There are classes that can chase s/d or d/p or kitten em from range. Nothing can hurt DE when he dodge to stealth. Unless he's ultra stupid

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > actually there are. you may even dodge twice and the AA spamm of a holo with lock on will still connect at the end to reveal you or a ranger/ warrior might apply reveal mid dodge ( cant dodge shout reveals). and then try to use your elite while your opponent is just waiting to interrupt it. or you know just use your CC during the dodge to connect at the end and then cleave the area, much easier counters than trying to catch a thief trying to get away with teleports.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Shadowstep man. Than use ur elite

> > > > > >

> > > > > > exactly! use mobility, because stealth wont get you away half as reliably, my words.

> > > > >

> > > > > U start to troll. What makes DE broken is not just dmg, not just stealth, it's the mix of tools that makes him unkillable while doing crazy dmg. Last time I was playing with guildies on guild arena. I was full zerk vs Warr and 2 soulbeast. Noone could kill me for around 5-10 minutes, cuz of ease of escape i had. 11k hp vs 2 soulbeast and Warr. And yea they wanted me badly

> > > >

> > > > must have been terribly bad soulbeasts or you didnt engage any of them and just tried to stay alive, in that case 10 minutes was bad of you.

> > > > you can avoid a fight alltogether with stealth pretty good, but once engaged those should kill you.

> > > > i am not trolling, you just see the deadeye as much stronger than it is or a core/DD thief as much weaker, not sure.

> > >

> > > I played carefully cuz I'm kitten zerker, but I wasnt only afking . And they always engaged on me with sic em, so I had to avoid some dmg, remove reveal, and than stealth Fiesta begin again

> > > Edit. It is not de being stronger than rest, it just has stupid mechanics that allows him to do what already mentioned

> >

> > so basically your only problem is that you dont enjoy fighting deadeyes, why didnt you say so from the get go? then we wouldnt have to derail this topic, its an important topic - the bug needs fixing.

>

> Trying to predict dodge vs invisible players is not fighting lol

correct, that is why backstab needs a rework.

for example many more asian MMOs have for their assassin/ninja/etc profession a move where instead of their character a woodlog appears usually with a loud noise andwith either a teleport / stealth or both. so taking that for backstab one could make a woodlog appear with a loud noise (as loud as DJ) and the thief disappear ( not stealth but more into the mists/shadows), then after a delay of 0,5 or 0,75 seconds they reapear behind their target for the strike. range 600 or 900.

there you go an option to react to backstab, wich is IMO holding thief back from gaining as much sustained damage in pvp modes as other professions while being defensive. the moment you give thief too much dmg, backstabs on every thief spec will become a low/no tell oneshot issue.

Safandula.8723 · February 27, 2019

> @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > @"Safandula.8723" said:

> > > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > > @"Safandula.8723" said:

> > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > > > > @"Safandula.8723" said:

> > > > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Safandula.8723" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > > > > > > > > @"Safandula.8723" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @"Safandula.8723" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Safandula.8723" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Safandula.8723" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Safandula.8723" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"TorQ.7041" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Safandula.8723" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"TorQ.7041" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Safandula.8723" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"omgdracula.6345" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"omgdracula.6345" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"syszery.1592" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"omgdracula.6345" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"syszery.1592" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And it can be stacked to 15 instead of only 10.. But this works just with rifle -- However, I am not sure if it is a UI bug or if they simply forgot the rifle.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I hopped in game and equipped a rifle with normal D/P build minus Daredevil and no extra DE traits equipped. Just auto attacking golem crits would be between 1380-1580 with no lead attacks. After stacking up to 15 crits would hit for 1500-1890. So I would have to say lead attacks for sure is affecting damage.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hm interesting. So it might even be true 15% then. I wonder why it was not fixed with the last patch...

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Who knows, but its funny that the nerf was meant to hit deadeye a bit but instead buffed it. Kind of.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nope it was meant to reduce prestacked damage modifier, that it was meant to hit deadeye is just what many thieves claim. i have yet to see anet ever state that.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean you're half right. There was really 0 reason for it to be a nerf to the other specs. None of them were over performing by any means. The only thief spec over performing atm is DE in all forms. I mean it hit DE builds without rifle hard, but you could still just stack with rifle then swap.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it might be your opinion that DE is overperforming and the rest is not, but its still false to assume anets intention was to only hit deadeye. they did hit deadeye in the very patch with making DJ blockable and they surely are not too stupid to specifically nerf deadeye more if they wanted to. you might be upset about the current state of core and daredevil but this hostility towards deadeye for performing better and implying that anet is too stupid to get their own intentions into the game wont really help you there.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if u say, de is not overperforming, u must be rly bad, to not be able to use it. every ape can kneel deal some dmg, than use dodge, reposition completly hit with dj... xd Yea ur right, anet didnt say, it was meant to hit de, becouse balancing team sucks and got no idea how to deal with this game. de on ranged deals more dmg than core/dd on melee, with much less chance to get a punishment. Shiryu on mat made 15k, binding shadow DJ combo in MARAUDER kitten gear. if u say, its not overperforming, than nothing will make u improve in this game

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No good deadeye kneels. Watch dduff. Legendary deadeye. Doesn't kneel once. Over preforming at what excatly? Do you see 2-4 every game? Not really. U see one once in a while that about it. Doesn't sound like u play DE at all tbh if u think pressing 3 buttons is all there is to it.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > any spec, that can 1 shot so easilly with so little risk is overperforming. yea i dont play trashspecs, ur right

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then there's no point arguing. You are basically saying u never played it n don't know how it works but it's over performing. It's like saying a car sucks but u never driven it. Makes zero sense.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > U cant even give good exaples. its more like, im not driving a car, but i see its kitten fast.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > so ur also telling, malicious backstabs that dont hit like track with 1 malice have a good tell? ur trolling. give me 1 post, where all ur arguments will be valid and without flaw plz

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the 1. malice adds just 10% dmg to base backstab. we surely can talk about backstab dealing too much damage, but that hardly is a deadeye only issue.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yea malicious backstab is only deadeye issue. Stacking lead attacks in perma stealth with assassins signet with 10+10 dmg modifications (10 from backstab, 10 from trait to marked ppl), HITS LIKE TRUCK, and doing to so easily with no punishment is only DE issue

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > stacking leadattacks in stealth is a bug or your in combat, in wich case you also do it on DD / core, assassins signet again a core ability. so your only argument being the ease of execution - totally something the target has to worry about and surely something you can comment on with your ample playtime of that build.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > core backstab could be easier to apply and deal more damage if the target had an option to react instead of predict. <- this is a core issue.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I also commented 1 more thing, u forgot.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > "doing it so easily with no punishment"

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > thats exactly what i did comment on. ease of execution.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > I don't even mean about ease of execution(it's ofc broken), but rather ease of escape

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > that applies to any thief.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > It was already touched on forum. There are classes that can chase s/d or d/p or kitten em from range. Nothing can hurt DE when he dodge to stealth. Unless he's ultra stupid

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > actually there are. you may even dodge twice and the AA spamm of a holo with lock on will still connect at the end to reveal you or a ranger/ warrior might apply reveal mid dodge ( cant dodge shout reveals). and then try to use your elite while your opponent is just waiting to interrupt it. or you know just use your CC during the dodge to connect at the end and then cleave the area, much easier counters than trying to catch a thief trying to get away with teleports.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Shadowstep man. Than use ur elite

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > exactly! use mobility, because stealth wont get you away half as reliably, my words.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > U start to troll. What makes DE broken is not just dmg, not just stealth, it's the mix of tools that makes him unkillable while doing crazy dmg. Last time I was playing with guildies on guild arena. I was full zerk vs Warr and 2 soulbeast. Noone could kill me for around 5-10 minutes, cuz of ease of escape i had. 11k hp vs 2 soulbeast and Warr. And yea they wanted me badly

> > > > >

> > > > > must have been terribly bad soulbeasts or you didnt engage any of them and just tried to stay alive, in that case 10 minutes was bad of you.

> > > > > you can avoid a fight alltogether with stealth pretty good, but once engaged those should kill you.

> > > > > i am not trolling, you just see the deadeye as much stronger than it is or a core/DD thief as much weaker, not sure.

> > > >

> > > > I played carefully cuz I'm kitten zerker, but I wasnt only afking . And they always engaged on me with sic em, so I had to avoid some dmg, remove reveal, and than stealth Fiesta begin again

> > > > Edit. It is not de being stronger than rest, it just has stupid mechanics that allows him to do what already mentioned

> > >

> > > so basically your only problem is that you dont enjoy fighting deadeyes, why didnt you say so from the get go? then we wouldnt have to derail this topic, its an important topic - the bug needs fixing.

> >

> > Trying to predict dodge vs invisible players is not fighting lol

>

> correct, that is why backstab needs a rework.

> for example many more asian MMOs have for their assassin/ninja/etc profession a move where instead of their character a woodlog appears usually with a loud noise andwith either a teleport / stealth or both. so taking that for backstab one could make a woodlog appear with a loud noise (as loud as DJ) and the thief disappear ( not stealth but more into the mists/shadows), then after a delay of 0,5 or 0,75 seconds they reapear behind their target for the strike. range 600 or 900.

> there you go an option to react to backstab, wich is IMO holding thief back from gaining as much sustained damage in pvp modes as other professions while being defensive. the moment you give thief too much dmg, backstabs on every thief spec will become a low/no tell oneshot issue.

Its stealth that needs rework. Lol or gw2 has better stealth mechanics

MUDse.7623 · February 27, 2019

> @"Safandula.8723" said:

> > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > @"Safandula.8723" said:

> > > > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > > > @"Safandula.8723" said:

> > > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > > > > > @"Safandula.8723" said:

> > > > > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"Safandula.8723" said:

> > > > > > > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @"Safandula.8723" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Safandula.8723" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Safandula.8723" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Safandula.8723" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Safandula.8723" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"TorQ.7041" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Safandula.8723" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"TorQ.7041" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Safandula.8723" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"omgdracula.6345" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"omgdracula.6345" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"syszery.1592" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"omgdracula.6345" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"syszery.1592" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And it can be stacked to 15 instead of only 10.. But this works just with rifle -- However, I am not sure if it is a UI bug or if they simply forgot the rifle.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I hopped in game and equipped a rifle with normal D/P build minus Daredevil and no extra DE traits equipped. Just auto attacking golem crits would be between 1380-1580 with no lead attacks. After stacking up to 15 crits would hit for 1500-1890. So I would have to say lead attacks for sure is affecting damage.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hm interesting. So it might even be true 15% then. I wonder why it was not fixed with the last patch...

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Who knows, but its funny that the nerf was meant to hit deadeye a bit but instead buffed it. Kind of.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nope it was meant to reduce prestacked damage modifier, that it was meant to hit deadeye is just what many thieves claim. i have yet to see anet ever state that.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean you're half right. There was really 0 reason for it to be a nerf to the other specs. None of them were over performing by any means. The only thief spec over performing atm is DE in all forms. I mean it hit DE builds without rifle hard, but you could still just stack with rifle then swap.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it might be your opinion that DE is overperforming and the rest is not, but its still false to assume anets intention was to only hit deadeye. they did hit deadeye in the very patch with making DJ blockable and they surely are not too stupid to specifically nerf deadeye more if they wanted to. you might be upset about the current state of core and daredevil but this hostility towards deadeye for performing better and implying that anet is too stupid to get their own intentions into the game wont really help you there.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if u say, de is not overperforming, u must be rly bad, to not be able to use it. every ape can kneel deal some dmg, than use dodge, reposition completly hit with dj... xd Yea ur right, anet didnt say, it was meant to hit de, becouse balancing team sucks and got no idea how to deal with this game. de on ranged deals more dmg than core/dd on melee, with much less chance to get a punishment. Shiryu on mat made 15k, binding shadow DJ combo in MARAUDER kitten gear. if u say, its not overperforming, than nothing will make u improve in this game

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No good deadeye kneels. Watch dduff. Legendary deadeye. Doesn't kneel once. Over preforming at what excatly? Do you see 2-4 every game? Not really. U see one once in a while that about it. Doesn't sound like u play DE at all tbh if u think pressing 3 buttons is all there is to it.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > any spec, that can 1 shot so easilly with so little risk is overperforming. yea i dont play trashspecs, ur right

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then there's no point arguing. You are basically saying u never played it n don't know how it works but it's over performing. It's like saying a car sucks but u never driven it. Makes zero sense.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > U cant even give good exaples. its more like, im not driving a car, but i see its kitten fast.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > so ur also telling, malicious backstabs that dont hit like track with 1 malice have a good tell? ur trolling. give me 1 post, where all ur arguments will be valid and without flaw plz

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the 1. malice adds just 10% dmg to base backstab. we surely can talk about backstab dealing too much damage, but that hardly is a deadeye only issue.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yea malicious backstab is only deadeye issue. Stacking lead attacks in perma stealth with assassins signet with 10+10 dmg modifications (10 from backstab, 10 from trait to marked ppl), HITS LIKE TRUCK, and doing to so easily with no punishment is only DE issue

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > stacking leadattacks in stealth is a bug or your in combat, in wich case you also do it on DD / core, assassins signet again a core ability. so your only argument being the ease of execution - totally something the target has to worry about and surely something you can comment on with your ample playtime of that build.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > core backstab could be easier to apply and deal more damage if the target had an option to react instead of predict. <- this is a core issue.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I also commented 1 more thing, u forgot.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "doing it so easily with no punishment"

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > thats exactly what i did comment on. ease of execution.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't even mean about ease of execution(it's ofc broken), but rather ease of escape

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > that applies to any thief.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > It was already touched on forum. There are classes that can chase s/d or d/p or kitten em from range. Nothing can hurt DE when he dodge to stealth. Unless he's ultra stupid

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > actually there are. you may even dodge twice and the AA spamm of a holo with lock on will still connect at the end to reveal you or a ranger/ warrior might apply reveal mid dodge ( cant dodge shout reveals). and then try to use your elite while your opponent is just waiting to interrupt it. or you know just use your CC during the dodge to connect at the end and then cleave the area, much easier counters than trying to catch a thief trying to get away with teleports.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Shadowstep man. Than use ur elite

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > exactly! use mobility, because stealth wont get you away half as reliably, my words.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > U start to troll. What makes DE broken is not just dmg, not just stealth, it's the mix of tools that makes him unkillable while doing crazy dmg. Last time I was playing with guildies on guild arena. I was full zerk vs Warr and 2 soulbeast. Noone could kill me for around 5-10 minutes, cuz of ease of escape i had. 11k hp vs 2 soulbeast and Warr. And yea they wanted me badly

> > > > > >

> > > > > > must have been terribly bad soulbeasts or you didnt engage any of them and just tried to stay alive, in that case 10 minutes was bad of you.

> > > > > > you can avoid a fight alltogether with stealth pretty good, but once engaged those should kill you.

> > > > > > i am not trolling, you just see the deadeye as much stronger than it is or a core/DD thief as much weaker, not sure.

> > > > >

> > > > > I played carefully cuz I'm kitten zerker, but I wasnt only afking . And they always engaged on me with sic em, so I had to avoid some dmg, remove reveal, and than stealth Fiesta begin again

> > > > > Edit. It is not de being stronger than rest, it just has stupid mechanics that allows him to do what already mentioned

> > > >

> > > > so basically your only problem is that you dont enjoy fighting deadeyes, why didnt you say so from the get go? then we wouldnt have to derail this topic, its an important topic - the bug needs fixing.

> > >

> > > Trying to predict dodge vs invisible players is not fighting lol

> >

> > correct, that is why backstab needs a rework.

> > for example many more asian MMOs have for their assassin/ninja/etc profession a move where instead of their character a woodlog appears usually with a loud noise andwith either a teleport / stealth or both. so taking that for backstab one could make a woodlog appear with a loud noise (as loud as DJ) and the thief disappear ( not stealth but more into the mists/shadows), then after a delay of 0,5 or 0,75 seconds they reapear behind their target for the strike. range 600 or 900.

> > there you go an option to react to backstab, wich is IMO holding thief back from gaining as much sustained damage in pvp modes as other professions while being defensive. the moment you give thief too much dmg, backstabs on every thief spec will become a low/no tell oneshot issue.

>

> Its stealth that needs rework. Lol or gw2 has better stealth mechanics

thats another option, but its much more unlikely to happen because that would require redesing of alot more.

Sir Vincent III.1286 · February 27, 2019

> @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > @"Safandula.8723" said:

> > > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > > @"Safandula.8723" said:

> > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > > > > @"Safandula.8723" said:

> > > > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Safandula.8723" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > > > > > > > > @"Safandula.8723" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @"Safandula.8723" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Safandula.8723" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Safandula.8723" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Safandula.8723" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Safandula.8723" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"TorQ.7041" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Safandula.8723" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"TorQ.7041" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Safandula.8723" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"omgdracula.6345" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"omgdracula.6345" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"syszery.1592" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"omgdracula.6345" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"syszery.1592" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And it can be stacked to 15 instead of only 10.. But this works just with rifle -- However, I am not sure if it is a UI bug or if they simply forgot the rifle.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I hopped in game and equipped a rifle with normal D/P build minus Daredevil and no extra DE traits equipped. Just auto attacking golem crits would be between 1380-1580 with no lead attacks. After stacking up to 15 crits would hit for 1500-1890. So I would have to say lead attacks for sure is affecting damage.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hm interesting. So it might even be true 15% then. I wonder why it was not fixed with the last patch...

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Who knows, but its funny that the nerf was meant to hit deadeye a bit but instead buffed it. Kind of.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nope it was meant to reduce prestacked damage modifier, that it was meant to hit deadeye is just what many thieves claim. i have yet to see anet ever state that.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean you're half right. There was really 0 reason for it to be a nerf to the other specs. None of them were over performing by any means. The only thief spec over performing atm is DE in all forms. I mean it hit DE builds without rifle hard, but you could still just stack with rifle then swap.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it might be your opinion that DE is overperforming and the rest is not, but its still false to assume anets intention was to only hit deadeye. they did hit deadeye in the very patch with making DJ blockable and they surely are not too stupid to specifically nerf deadeye more if they wanted to. you might be upset about the current state of core and daredevil but this hostility towards deadeye for performing better and implying that anet is too stupid to get their own intentions into the game wont really help you there.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if u say, de is not overperforming, u must be rly bad, to not be able to use it. every ape can kneel deal some dmg, than use dodge, reposition completly hit with dj... xd Yea ur right, anet didnt say, it was meant to hit de, becouse balancing team sucks and got no idea how to deal with this game. de on ranged deals more dmg than core/dd on melee, with much less chance to get a punishment. Shiryu on mat made 15k, binding shadow DJ combo in MARAUDER kitten gear. if u say, its not overperforming, than nothing will make u improve in this game

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No good deadeye kneels. Watch dduff. Legendary deadeye. Doesn't kneel once. Over preforming at what excatly? Do you see 2-4 every game? Not really. U see one once in a while that about it. Doesn't sound like u play DE at all tbh if u think pressing 3 buttons is all there is to it.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > any spec, that can 1 shot so easilly with so little risk is overperforming. yea i dont play trashspecs, ur right

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then there's no point arguing. You are basically saying u never played it n don't know how it works but it's over performing. It's like saying a car sucks but u never driven it. Makes zero sense.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > U cant even give good exaples. its more like, im not driving a car, but i see its kitten fast.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > so ur also telling, malicious backstabs that dont hit like track with 1 malice have a good tell? ur trolling. give me 1 post, where all ur arguments will be valid and without flaw plz

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the 1. malice adds just 10% dmg to base backstab. we surely can talk about backstab dealing too much damage, but that hardly is a deadeye only issue.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yea malicious backstab is only deadeye issue. Stacking lead attacks in perma stealth with assassins signet with 10+10 dmg modifications (10 from backstab, 10 from trait to marked ppl), HITS LIKE TRUCK, and doing to so easily with no punishment is only DE issue

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > stacking leadattacks in stealth is a bug or your in combat, in wich case you also do it on DD / core, assassins signet again a core ability. so your only argument being the ease of execution - totally something the target has to worry about and surely something you can comment on with your ample playtime of that build.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > core backstab could be easier to apply and deal more damage if the target had an option to react instead of predict. <- this is a core issue.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I also commented 1 more thing, u forgot.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "doing it so easily with no punishment"

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thats exactly what i did comment on. ease of execution.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't even mean about ease of execution(it's ofc broken), but rather ease of escape

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > that applies to any thief.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > It was already touched on forum. There are classes that can chase s/d or d/p or kitten em from range. Nothing can hurt DE when he dodge to stealth. Unless he's ultra stupid

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > actually there are. you may even dodge twice and the AA spamm of a holo with lock on will still connect at the end to reveal you or a ranger/ warrior might apply reveal mid dodge ( cant dodge shout reveals). and then try to use your elite while your opponent is just waiting to interrupt it. or you know just use your CC during the dodge to connect at the end and then cleave the area, much easier counters than trying to catch a thief trying to get away with teleports.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Shadowstep man. Than use ur elite

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > exactly! use mobility, because stealth wont get you away half as reliably, my words.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > U start to troll. What makes DE broken is not just dmg, not just stealth, it's the mix of tools that makes him unkillable while doing crazy dmg. Last time I was playing with guildies on guild arena. I was full zerk vs Warr and 2 soulbeast. Noone could kill me for around 5-10 minutes, cuz of ease of escape i had. 11k hp vs 2 soulbeast and Warr. And yea they wanted me badly

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > must have been terribly bad soulbeasts or you didnt engage any of them and just tried to stay alive, in that case 10 minutes was bad of you.

> > > > > > > you can avoid a fight alltogether with stealth pretty good, but once engaged those should kill you.

> > > > > > > i am not trolling, you just see the deadeye as much stronger than it is or a core/DD thief as much weaker, not sure.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I played carefully cuz I'm kitten zerker, but I wasnt only afking . And they always engaged on me with sic em, so I had to avoid some dmg, remove reveal, and than stealth Fiesta begin again

> > > > > > Edit. It is not de being stronger than rest, it just has stupid mechanics that allows him to do what already mentioned

> > > > >

> > > > > so basically your only problem is that you dont enjoy fighting deadeyes, why didnt you say so from the get go? then we wouldnt have to derail this topic, its an important topic - the bug needs fixing.

> > > >

> > > > Trying to predict dodge vs invisible players is not fighting lol

> > >

> > > correct, that is why backstab needs a rework.

> > > for example many more asian MMOs have for their assassin/ninja/etc profession a move where instead of their character a woodlog appears usually with a loud noise andwith either a teleport / stealth or both. so taking that for backstab one could make a woodlog appear with a loud noise (as loud as DJ) and the thief disappear ( not stealth but more into the mists/shadows), then after a delay of 0,5 or 0,75 seconds they reapear behind their target for the strike. range 600 or 900.

> > > there you go an option to react to backstab, wich is IMO holding thief back from gaining as much sustained damage in pvp modes as other professions while being defensive. the moment you give thief too much dmg, backstabs on every thief spec will become a low/no tell oneshot issue.

> >

> > Its stealth that needs rework. Lol or gw2 has better stealth mechanics

>

> thats another option, but its much more unlikely to happen because that would require redesing of alot more.

Stealth was never a problem until DJ and MBS. If anything should be redesigned, it would be those two. Leave stealth alone.

TorQ.7041 · February 28, 2019

> @"Safandula.8723" said:

> > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > @"Safandula.8723" said:

> > > > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > > > @"Safandula.8723" said:

> > > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > > > > > @"Safandula.8723" said:

> > > > > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"Safandula.8723" said:

> > > > > > > > > > @"TorQ.7041" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @"Safandula.8723" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @"TorQ.7041" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Safandula.8723" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"omgdracula.6345" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"omgdracula.6345" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"syszery.1592" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"omgdracula.6345" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"syszery.1592" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And it can be stacked to 15 instead of only 10.. But this works just with rifle -- However, I am not sure if it is a UI bug or if they simply forgot the rifle.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I hopped in game and equipped a rifle with normal D/P build minus Daredevil and no extra DE traits equipped. Just auto attacking golem crits would be between 1380-1580 with no lead attacks. After stacking up to 15 crits would hit for 1500-1890. So I would have to say lead attacks for sure is affecting damage.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hm interesting. So it might even be true 15% then. I wonder why it was not fixed with the last patch...

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Who knows, but its funny that the nerf was meant to hit deadeye a bit but instead buffed it. Kind of.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nope it was meant to reduce prestacked damage modifier, that it was meant to hit deadeye is just what many thieves claim. i have yet to see anet ever state that.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean you're half right. There was really 0 reason for it to be a nerf to the other specs. None of them were over performing by any means. The only thief spec over performing atm is DE in all forms. I mean it hit DE builds without rifle hard, but you could still just stack with rifle then swap.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > it might be your opinion that DE is overperforming and the rest is not, but its still false to assume anets intention was to only hit deadeye. they did hit deadeye in the very patch with making DJ blockable and they surely are not too stupid to specifically nerf deadeye more if they wanted to. you might be upset about the current state of core and daredevil but this hostility towards deadeye for performing better and implying that anet is too stupid to get their own intentions into the game wont really help you there.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > if u say, de is not overperforming, u must be rly bad, to not be able to use it. every ape can kneel deal some dmg, than use dodge, reposition completly hit with dj... xd Yea ur right, anet didnt say, it was meant to hit de, becouse balancing team sucks and got no idea how to deal with this game. de on ranged deals more dmg than core/dd on melee, with much less chance to get a punishment. Shiryu on mat made 15k, binding shadow DJ combo in MARAUDER kitten gear. if u say, its not overperforming, than nothing will make u improve in this game

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > No good deadeye kneels. Watch dduff. Legendary deadeye. Doesn't kneel once. Over preforming at what excatly? Do you see 2-4 every game? Not really. U see one once in a while that about it. Doesn't sound like u play DE at all tbh if u think pressing 3 buttons is all there is to it.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > any spec, that can 1 shot so easilly with so little risk is overperforming. yea i dont play trashspecs, ur right

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Then there's no point arguing. You are basically saying u never played it n don't know how it works but it's over performing. It's like saying a car sucks but u never driven it. Makes zero sense.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > U cant even give good exaples. its more like, im not driving a car, but i see its kitten fast.

> > > > > > > > > so ur also telling, malicious backstabs that dont hit like track with 1 malice have a good tell? ur trolling. give me 1 post, where all ur arguments will be valid and without flaw plz

> > > > > > > > the 1. malice adds just 10% dmg to base backstab. we surely can talk about backstab dealing too much damage, but that hardly is a deadeye only issue.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Yea malicious backstab is only deadeye issue. Stacking lead attacks in perma stealth with assassins signet with 10+10 dmg modifications (10 from backstab, 10 from trait to marked ppl), HITS LIKE TRUCK, and doing to so easily with no punishment is only DE issue

> > > > > >

> > > > > > stacking leadattacks in stealth is a bug or your in combat, in wich case you also do it on DD / core, assassins signet again a core ability. so your only argument being the ease of execution - totally something the target has to worry about and surely something you can comment on with your ample playtime of that build.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > core backstab could be easier to apply and deal more damage if the target had an option to react instead of predict. <- this is a core issue.

> > > > >

> > > > > I also commented 1 more thing, u forgot.

> > > > > "doing it so easily with no punishment"

> > > >

> > > > thats exactly what i did comment on. ease of execution.

> > >

> > > I don't even mean about ease of execution(it's ofc broken), but rather ease of escape

> >

> > that applies to any thief.

>

> It was already touched on forum. There are classes that can chase s/d or d/p or kitten em from range. Nothing can hurt DE when he dodge to stealth. Unless he's ultra stupid

Are you seriously delusional if you think nothing can hurt a DE once he dodges to stealth. Only bad players actually think a DE disappears. I play other classes. As Holo. You can skill 5. Even if he's stealthed he will be KD. N stealth doesn't last long enough for him to be concealed b4 getting up. Skill 5 followed by skill 3 ll finish instantly. This comes down to how well the DE will dodge or evade and or burn cool downs.

As guardian you can port and hammer C. He's then trapped. Hammer 2 and he's done. Again this depends on the DE's map awareness on not getting bursted

As mesmer u basically have so much reflect up time the moment u dodge 1 shot ur reflect is up.

As boonbeast u can't get 1 shotted cos of perma protection and with whirling on skill 5 u can deflect shots.

Honestly you have never played DE don't understand it's weaknesses and how to fight it and then come here can cry about it.

TorQ.7041 · February 28, 2019