Eleazar.9478 Posted February 25, 2019 Author Share Posted February 25, 2019 > @"Raknar.4735" said: > > @"Eleazar.9478" said: > > > @"Raknar.4735" said: > > > > @"Eleazar.9478" said: > > > > SO this must be awkward given my last posts, but if people dont want a balanced stat system in wvw maybe they should just go all in and make ranks give you more stats or such, If wvw is supposed to be unbalnced and gear dependent i think it would be best if they go all in (member how good it felt when you grinded out the vs guard stats for extra powr and vit) > > > > > > > > 1) most mmos that have popular battlegrounds have unbalanced stats, player probably stick around because they get more powerful the more they play thus creating a really cool "ancient vampire" like power feedback loop > > > > 2) how cool would it be if you had your core old school dudes able to fight off much bigger numbers because you put in the time > > > > 3) currently teh system discourages new players (they have to grind for optimal stats) and doese not really reward old players > > > > 4) this would make coming across a dimond player and such like oh snap its gunna get real > > > > 5) this may encourge crazy broken over the limit builds that wouldnt be able to exist in a normal climate > > > > 6) it would make wvw hilariously fun > > > > > > 1. Comparing it to WoW: It was never fun for me to kill green geared people in BGs while wearing full Arena gear. If someone was more geared than me, i didn't think it was "cool" that he could 2 shot me, it just made me feel bad for being undergeared and holding my team back > > > 2. Not cool at all, if i couldn't kill someone in a 10v1 just because he has "better stats", and not "better skill", i would just go ahead and quit the game because i can't catch up. > > > 3. This new system would discourage new players even more, because they have to grind ranks for optimal stats. How do they do that? By fighting those with higher stats and getting one-shot? Bad idea. Veterans are already rewarded by having more skill than new players. > > > 4. It wouldn't be "oh snap", it would be "why even bother, just going to waypoint away" > > > 5. Crazy broken builds are only fun for the person using them, they destroy gameplay balance > > > 6. No, it would scare away new players with "lesser stats/builds", and create a situation where the only people playing are those with "op-builds". > > > > > > In my honest opinion this is an overall bad idea. > > > > > For the most part I actually agree with hence my other post how ever those other games seem to have thriving populations in their battle grounds while ours is really struggling (hoping this week brings in new blood) > > However I think it would be a good idea if wvw went either extremely balanced with stats reigned in or extremely unbalanced with power gear fantasy the current system just I think imo is not working it's a barrier to entry for newer players (have to grind for at least hours if not days) and wvw ranks really don't mean much outside you use siege a little bit better, not a whole lot of incentive to keep playing > > Reigned in stats via amulets would kill build variety. I can only speak for Revs here, but there are way more WvW builds with "personality" by mixing stats than SPvP builds. (Examples: Obelix Ventari Roamer, Helly/Hobo's Hybrid Rev, Justine's Glasscannon Backbreaker Rev) > > I don't think the main problem of WvW balance are the stats, it mostly has to do with class balance and overloaded kits. > Some classes are better for Zerging (Rev, Guardian, Necro), others are better for roaming (Thief, Mesmer, Ranger). Of course i would prefer it if every class would be "atleast good" for both gameplay styles, but amulets wouldn't change that. It has to do with what each class has to offer. > > I'm not sure if the amulet system would actually "lower" the barrier of entry, since it is already pretty low (Atleast for public zergs). > > The incentive to keep playing WvW should be that it is a fun gamemode, not ranking up or getter better stats. (Though Rewards could be better!) > About the ranks not offering much: I can't really say how useful they are, since i'm not a full-time WvW player, so my opinion on them would not help. Thanks for the discussion btw I'm enjoying it anyways Why would the builds not still work? They would still be needed they just would have maybe a little less effectiveness. There's actually twice as many viable builds in pvp heck the only reason why hammer rev isn't there is cuase range issues it's always better to go staff. And like I say on the other post wvw could have it's own separate stats from PvP (for example PvP doesn't allow healing/toughness because it slowed the point rotation focus down way too much but it would be insane to not have that combo in wvw) I only bring up the ranks currently I see a high rank and I'm like that guy zergs it's not really a good indicator of skill past bronze, and doesn't really offer much you hit a wall and I in my opinion feel like they should either A make it super balance were you increase in skill or b) make it super unbalanced where you increase in power, that would create situations we're oh shit that guy means buisness and from watching other games that have successful battlegrounds people seem to enjoy that (iron banner/gambit destiny (btw they're making open world PvP for destiny 3 which I assume will be light dependant)) wow esp ff. People must really enjoy that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackelk.3784 Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 > @"zinkz.7045" said: > > @"Eleazar.9478" said: > > > @"zinkz.7045" said: > > > > @"Eleazar.9478" said: > > > > Alot of those builds save for ghost thief are that way because the stats are so extreme in wvw the numbers kind of brake the game now. Those builds are extremely less effective in PvP because there is a stat reduction thus reigning in stats. > > > > > > Not really, the stats are a very minor reason as to why balance is non-existent in WvW. > > > > > > The classes/combat were designed and balanced around 5v5 conquest (and nowadays also raids), when you put them into WvW many things either become pretty useless or become very OP simply because they were not designed for the situations you find in WvW. > > > > > > For example it isn't stats that have made engy, ranger, etc weak in large scale for 6 years it is things like having lots of projectiles on skills, a core mechanic like a pet, things like flamethrower/nades that trigger retal to silly levels in a zerg, etc that work fine for what they were designed for (PvP), but are very weak in WvW large scale. > > > > > > Same thing with roaming, high mobility and stealth are broken OP in roaming because it lets players too easily disengage and breaks the rule of risk vs reward. Where as for what the game was designed around - PvP conquest they are balanced by the game mode as if you 'run away" there you get punished for it by losing the capture point. > > > > > > So unless after 6 years Anet are suddenly going to start designing and balancing classes / mechanics for WvW rather then virtually ignoring it in those regards, then nothing is going to change, you could have amulets in WvW and balance would still be complete garbage, because stats aren't the big problem. > > > > > > And then even if Anet wanted to, really they couldn't, you can't design/balance for 3 game modes (then for different things like zerging vs roaming within it), the only way you can do that is with a very strict trait/skill/weapon system that basically forces completely separate builds for different game modes, somehow I doubt Anet are going to revamp their entire system for that. > > > > > > > > > > Stats have totally made wvw,for roaming you go super tanky generally or 1shot for example try going into PvP with a one shot build the second you face compentant players it's over why cause your kit hits waay less. There's a reason why everyone and their mother runs boon runes stats matter. Another example you can hit just as hard if not harder in wvw as a hybrid stat as a pvper running full dps. The health of classes don't change so thus right there it creates an imbalance. > > > > zergs are just minstrel zerker trailblazers you can only do alot of comps because of extreme stats. And it's insane the damage you can do in wvw vs PvP try it run your build and just try on a golem or Ina match it's crazy > > > > You missed the point. > > If you added amulets tomorrow mirage would still be OP for roaming and zergs would still be full of scourges / revs / firebrands, because the garbage balance in WvW is mainly down to class skills / traits and essentially that they are designed around PvP / PvE raids whilst WvW is barely considered, not stats. ^^ this 100 times this! The issue boils down to skill and trait tuning more than great stats. They try to tune WvW akin to PvP and PvE but that can never be the case. Simply put a 30v30 will always need different tuning than a 5v5 or a 25v1. Putting amulets in WvW isn't suddenly going to fix it, if anything it will drive off the WvW players who already avoid PvP and stagnate the game mode further. When gearing isn't even an issue...just geared a new 80 alt with just money it got leveling for under 20g in exotics for the current meta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EremiteAngel.9765 Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 When I was first introduced to the game, I wasn't really attracted to it as I came from a stat grind game like Runescape and not being able to stat grind to get more powerful each day just turned me off. And then I was introduced to WvW and everything changed from that day. I realised that there was a way for me to get stronger even after hitting level 80. That's right, I could get more skilful! Instead of showing people how powerful I was through a endless stat grind system like Runescape was, I could show people how powerful I was through developing my combat skills. Whether it was large blob fights, medium guild fights, small havoc skirmishes or solo duels. There was a place for skills. Many of us have developed combat skills and knowledge that we're proud of. And introducing stat grind now will just negate all the time we've spent to develop our combat skills. So I'll have to say no to a stat grind system. The current Dps, mobility, stealth and sustain power creep via skill mechanics alone in the tripartite specs of Soulbeasts, Deadeyes and Mirages have already diluted the effects of skills greatly when it comes to roaming on any other class so lets not make it irreparably worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleazar.9478 Posted February 25, 2019 Author Share Posted February 25, 2019 > @"zinkz.7045" said: > > @"Eleazar.9478" said: > > > @"zinkz.7045" said: > > > > @"Eleazar.9478" said: > > > > Alot of those builds save for ghost thief are that way because the stats are so extreme in wvw the numbers kind of brake the game now. Those builds are extremely less effective in PvP because there is a stat reduction thus reigning in stats. > > > > > > Not really, the stats are a very minor reason as to why balance is non-existent in WvW. > > > > > > The classes/combat were designed and balanced around 5v5 conquest (and nowadays also raids), when you put them into WvW many things either become pretty useless or become very OP simply because they were not designed for the situations you find in WvW. > > > > > > For example it isn't stats that have made engy, ranger, etc weak in large scale for 6 years it is things like having lots of projectiles on skills, a core mechanic like a pet, things like flamethrower/nades that trigger retal to silly levels in a zerg, etc that work fine for what they were designed for (PvP), but are very weak in WvW large scale. > > > > > > Same thing with roaming, high mobility and stealth are broken OP in roaming because it lets players too easily disengage and breaks the rule of risk vs reward. Where as for what the game was designed around - PvP conquest they are balanced by the game mode as if you 'run away" there you get punished for it by losing the capture point. > > > > > > So unless after 6 years Anet are suddenly going to start designing and balancing classes / mechanics for WvW rather then virtually ignoring it in those regards, then nothing is going to change, you could have amulets in WvW and balance would still be complete garbage, because stats aren't the big problem. > > > > > > And then even if Anet wanted to, really they couldn't, you can't design/balance for 3 game modes (then for different things like zerging vs roaming within it), the only way you can do that is with a very strict trait/skill/weapon system that basically forces completely separate builds for different game modes, somehow I doubt Anet are going to revamp their entire system for that. > > > > > > > > > > Stats have totally made wvw,for roaming you go super tanky generally or 1shot for example try going into PvP with a one shot build the second you face compentant players it's over why cause your kit hits waay less. There's a reason why everyone and their mother runs boon runes stats matter. Another example you can hit just as hard if not harder in wvw as a hybrid stat as a pvper running full dps. The health of classes don't change so thus right there it creates an imbalance. > > > > zergs are just minstrel zerker trailblazers you can only do alot of comps because of extreme stats. And it's insane the damage you can do in wvw vs PvP try it run your build and just try on a golem or Ina match it's crazy > > > > You missed the point. > > If you added amulets tomorrow mirage for example would still be OP for roaming and zergs would still be full of scourges / revs / firebrands, because the garbage balance in WvW is mainly down to class skills / traits and essentially that they are designed around PvP / PvE raids whilst WvW is barely considered, not stats. Imagine firebrands without minstrel gear or mirages that are weak to condition or toughness, no more or reduction of trailblazers mirages while strong in PvP are over the top in wvw due to stats and food (if it's strong in PvP you bet it's op in wvw) And they've made quite a bit wvw specific balance changes these past 3 years the huge rev and Mesmer boon Nerf, the aoe cap, the quickness stomping I suspect the new quick rez were for wvw too. Hell spell breaker scourge and firebrand all seem to be designed with wvw in mind (boon support rip and corrupt with barrier generation) lol spell breakers bubble is only used in wvw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zinkz.7045 Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 > @"Eleazar.9478" said: > > @"zinkz.7045" said: > > > @"Eleazar.9478" said: > > > > @"zinkz.7045" said: > > > > > @"Eleazar.9478" said: > > > > > Alot of those builds save for ghost thief are that way because the stats are so extreme in wvw the numbers kind of brake the game now. Those builds are extremely less effective in PvP because there is a stat reduction thus reigning in stats. > > > > > > > > Not really, the stats are a very minor reason as to why balance is non-existent in WvW. > > > > > > > > The classes/combat were designed and balanced around 5v5 conquest (and nowadays also raids), when you put them into WvW many things either become pretty useless or become very OP simply because they were not designed for the situations you find in WvW. > > > > > > > > For example it isn't stats that have made engy, ranger, etc weak in large scale for 6 years it is things like having lots of projectiles on skills, a core mechanic like a pet, things like flamethrower/nades that trigger retal to silly levels in a zerg, etc that work fine for what they were designed for (PvP), but are very weak in WvW large scale. > > > > > > > > Same thing with roaming, high mobility and stealth are broken OP in roaming because it lets players too easily disengage and breaks the rule of risk vs reward. Where as for what the game was designed around - PvP conquest they are balanced by the game mode as if you 'run away" there you get punished for it by losing the capture point. > > > > > > > > So unless after 6 years Anet are suddenly going to start designing and balancing classes / mechanics for WvW rather then virtually ignoring it in those regards, then nothing is going to change, you could have amulets in WvW and balance would still be complete garbage, because stats aren't the big problem. > > > > > > > > And then even if Anet wanted to, really they couldn't, you can't design/balance for 3 game modes (then for different things like zerging vs roaming within it), the only way you can do that is with a very strict trait/skill/weapon system that basically forces completely separate builds for different game modes, somehow I doubt Anet are going to revamp their entire system for that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stats have totally made wvw,for roaming you go super tanky generally or 1shot for example try going into PvP with a one shot build the second you face compentant players it's over why cause your kit hits waay less. There's a reason why everyone and their mother runs boon runes stats matter. Another example you can hit just as hard if not harder in wvw as a hybrid stat as a pvper running full dps. The health of classes don't change so thus right there it creates an imbalance. > > > > > > zergs are just minstrel zerker trailblazers you can only do alot of comps because of extreme stats. And it's insane the damage you can do in wvw vs PvP try it run your build and just try on a golem or Ina match it's crazy > > > > > > > You missed the point. > > > > If you added amulets tomorrow mirage for example would still be OP for roaming and zergs would still be full of scourges / revs / firebrands, because the garbage balance in WvW is mainly down to class skills / traits and essentially that they are designed around PvP / PvE raids whilst WvW is barely considered, not stats. > > Imagine firebrands without minstrel gear. Guardians have been meta for large scale the entire 6 years of the game under a whole variety of stats and builds, they have always had a combination of support that no other class can replace, you could remove minstrel tomorrow and they will still be meta. > mirages that are weak to condition or toughness, no more or reduction of trailblazers... You can roam power, condi, hybrid on mirage, you could remove trailblazer tomorrow and mirage would still be OP for roaming, because guess what the things that make it OP have nothing to do with the stats. > if it's strong in PvP you bet it's op in wvw. Wrong, lots of things have been way stronger in PvP than they have been in WvW over the years, e.g - spirt ranger was broken in PvP meanwhile in WvW it was useless. Not sure why it is so difficult to grasp that 5v5 fighting over points has very different balance requirements than 60vs60 zerg or roaming in WvW... > And they've made quite a bit wvw specific balance changes these past 3 years the huge rev and Mesmer boon Nerf, the aoe cap, the quickness stomping I suspect the new quick rez were for wvw too. Hell spell breaker scourge and firebrand all seem to be designed with wvw in mind (boon support rip and corrupt with barrier generation) lol spell breakers bubble is only used in wvw. They have made thousands and thousands of changes in this game, the amount actually for WvW is tiny compared to PvP and since HoT also PvE raids. All that gets changed for WvW is the odd thing for large scale like nerfing the spellbreaker bubble, meanwhile PvE/PvP will get ten times the changes. Did you even watch the Twtich streams they did early in the game for balance patches with Jon Peters, Jon Sharp, etc, literally 90%+ of changes every week were down to PvP. Even the recent patch showed how much little WvW is considered, you have chrono that is something of a niche pick for large scale WvW get a huge nerf, because they wanted to nerf god-tier chrono boon share in PvE. They even nerfed healing scrapper that was so niche you only wanted maybe 2 of them in the squad, yet they nerfed the superspeed, again WvW is basically not considered most of the time. As I and others have told you stats are minor, balance is garbage in WvW due to class skills / traits / mechanics, changing stats will not alter that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hitman.5829 Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 Posts like this are the reason why we need thumbs down option like when the forums were released. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigpapasmurf.5623 Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 > @"Eleazar.9478" said: > > @"Raknar.4735" said: > > > @"Eleazar.9478" said: > > > > @"Raknar.4735" said: > > > > > @"Eleazar.9478" said: > > > > > SO this must be awkward given my last posts, but if people dont want a balanced stat system in wvw maybe they should just go all in and make ranks give you more stats or such, If wvw is supposed to be unbalnced and gear dependent i think it would be best if they go all in (member how good it felt when you grinded out the vs guard stats for extra powr and vit) > > > > > > > > > > 1) most mmos that have popular battlegrounds have unbalanced stats, player probably stick around because they get more powerful the more they play thus creating a really cool "ancient vampire" like power feedback loop > > > > > 2) how cool would it be if you had your core old school dudes able to fight off much bigger numbers because you put in the time > > > > > 3) currently teh system discourages new players (they have to grind for optimal stats) and doese not really reward old players > > > > > 4) this would make coming across a dimond player and such like oh snap its gunna get real > > > > > 5) this may encourge crazy broken over the limit builds that wouldnt be able to exist in a normal climate > > > > > 6) it would make wvw hilariously fun > > > > > > > > 1. Comparing it to WoW: It was never fun for me to kill green geared people in BGs while wearing full Arena gear. If someone was more geared than me, i didn't think it was "cool" that he could 2 shot me, it just made me feel bad for being undergeared and holding my team back > > > > 2. Not cool at all, if i couldn't kill someone in a 10v1 just because he has "better stats", and not "better skill", i would just go ahead and quit the game because i can't catch up. > > > > 3. This new system would discourage new players even more, because they have to grind ranks for optimal stats. How do they do that? By fighting those with higher stats and getting one-shot? Bad idea. Veterans are already rewarded by having more skill than new players. > > > > 4. It wouldn't be "oh snap", it would be "why even bother, just going to waypoint away" > > > > 5. Crazy broken builds are only fun for the person using them, they destroy gameplay balance > > > > 6. No, it would scare away new players with "lesser stats/builds", and create a situation where the only people playing are those with "op-builds". > > > > > > > > In my honest opinion this is an overall bad idea. > > > > > > > For the most part I actually agree with hence my other post how ever those other games seem to have thriving populations in their battle grounds while ours is really struggling (hoping this week brings in new blood) > > > However I think it would be a good idea if wvw went either extremely balanced with stats reigned in or extremely unbalanced with power gear fantasy the current system just I think imo is not working it's a barrier to entry for newer players (have to grind for at least hours if not days) and wvw ranks really don't mean much outside you use siege a little bit better, not a whole lot of incentive to keep playing > > > > Reigned in stats via amulets would kill build variety. I can only speak for Revs here, but there are way more WvW builds with "personality" by mixing stats than SPvP builds. (Examples: Obelix Ventari Roamer, Helly/Hobo's Hybrid Rev, Justine's Glasscannon Backbreaker Rev) > > > > I don't think the main problem of WvW balance are the stats, it mostly has to do with class balance and overloaded kits. > > Some classes are better for Zerging (Rev, Guardian, Necro), others are better for roaming (Thief, Mesmer, Ranger). Of course i would prefer it if every class would be "atleast good" for both gameplay styles, but amulets wouldn't change that. It has to do with what each class has to offer. > > > > I'm not sure if the amulet system would actually "lower" the barrier of entry, since it is already pretty low (Atleast for public zergs). > > > > The incentive to keep playing WvW should be that it is a fun gamemode, not ranking up or getter better stats. (Though Rewards could be better!) > > About the ranks not offering much: I can't really say how useful they are, since i'm not a full-time WvW player, so my opinion on them would not help. > > There's actually twice as many viable builds in pvp No, there isnt. Many people have stated this. There are more "viable" builds in WvW due to the lack of restrictions in stats/gear and add in consumables, makes the # of builds that are viable in WvW way more than pvp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleazar.9478 Posted February 25, 2019 Author Share Posted February 25, 2019 > @"Bigpapasmurf.5623" said: > > @"Eleazar.9478" said: > > > @"Raknar.4735" said: > > > > @"Eleazar.9478" said: > > > > > @"Raknar.4735" said: > > > > > > @"Eleazar.9478" said: > > > > > > SO this must be awkward given my last posts, but if people dont want a balanced stat system in wvw maybe they should just go all in and make ranks give you more stats or such, If wvw is supposed to be unbalnced and gear dependent i think it would be best if they go all in (member how good it felt when you grinded out the vs guard stats for extra powr and vit) > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) most mmos that have popular battlegrounds have unbalanced stats, player probably stick around because they get more powerful the more they play thus creating a really cool "ancient vampire" like power feedback loop > > > > > > 2) how cool would it be if you had your core old school dudes able to fight off much bigger numbers because you put in the time > > > > > > 3) currently teh system discourages new players (they have to grind for optimal stats) and doese not really reward old players > > > > > > 4) this would make coming across a dimond player and such like oh snap its gunna get real > > > > > > 5) this may encourge crazy broken over the limit builds that wouldnt be able to exist in a normal climate > > > > > > 6) it would make wvw hilariously fun > > > > > > > > > > 1. Comparing it to WoW: It was never fun for me to kill green geared people in BGs while wearing full Arena gear. If someone was more geared than me, i didn't think it was "cool" that he could 2 shot me, it just made me feel bad for being undergeared and holding my team back > > > > > 2. Not cool at all, if i couldn't kill someone in a 10v1 just because he has "better stats", and not "better skill", i would just go ahead and quit the game because i can't catch up. > > > > > 3. This new system would discourage new players even more, because they have to grind ranks for optimal stats. How do they do that? By fighting those with higher stats and getting one-shot? Bad idea. Veterans are already rewarded by having more skill than new players. > > > > > 4. It wouldn't be "oh snap", it would be "why even bother, just going to waypoint away" > > > > > 5. Crazy broken builds are only fun for the person using them, they destroy gameplay balance > > > > > 6. No, it would scare away new players with "lesser stats/builds", and create a situation where the only people playing are those with "op-builds". > > > > > > > > > > In my honest opinion this is an overall bad idea. > > > > > > > > > For the most part I actually agree with hence my other post how ever those other games seem to have thriving populations in their battle grounds while ours is really struggling (hoping this week brings in new blood) > > > > However I think it would be a good idea if wvw went either extremely balanced with stats reigned in or extremely unbalanced with power gear fantasy the current system just I think imo is not working it's a barrier to entry for newer players (have to grind for at least hours if not days) and wvw ranks really don't mean much outside you use siege a little bit better, not a whole lot of incentive to keep playing > > > > > > Reigned in stats via amulets would kill build variety. I can only speak for Revs here, but there are way more WvW builds with "personality" by mixing stats than SPvP builds. (Examples: Obelix Ventari Roamer, Helly/Hobo's Hybrid Rev, Justine's Glasscannon Backbreaker Rev) > > > > > > I don't think the main problem of WvW balance are the stats, it mostly has to do with class balance and overloaded kits. > > > Some classes are better for Zerging (Rev, Guardian, Necro), others are better for roaming (Thief, Mesmer, Ranger). Of course i would prefer it if every class would be "atleast good" for both gameplay styles, but amulets wouldn't change that. It has to do with what each class has to offer. > > > > > > I'm not sure if the amulet system would actually "lower" the barrier of entry, since it is already pretty low (Atleast for public zergs). > > > > > > The incentive to keep playing WvW should be that it is a fun gamemode, not ranking up or getter better stats. (Though Rewards could be better!) > > > About the ranks not offering much: I can't really say how useful they are, since i'm not a full-time WvW player, so my opinion on them would not help. > > > > > There's actually twice as many viable builds in pvp > > No, there isnt. Many people have stated this. There are more "viable" builds in WvW due to the lack of restrictions in stats/gear and add in consumables, makes the # of builds that are viable in WvW way more than pvp. > How come metabattle which is actually update regularly has twice as many builds in every category and twice as many test builds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigpapasmurf.5623 Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 > @"Eleazar.9478" said: > > @"Bigpapasmurf.5623" said: > > > @"Eleazar.9478" said: > > > > @"Raknar.4735" said: > > > > > @"Eleazar.9478" said: > > > > > > @"Raknar.4735" said: > > > > > > > @"Eleazar.9478" said: > > > > > > > SO this must be awkward given my last posts, but if people dont want a balanced stat system in wvw maybe they should just go all in and make ranks give you more stats or such, If wvw is supposed to be unbalnced and gear dependent i think it would be best if they go all in (member how good it felt when you grinded out the vs guard stats for extra powr and vit) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) most mmos that have popular battlegrounds have unbalanced stats, player probably stick around because they get more powerful the more they play thus creating a really cool "ancient vampire" like power feedback loop > > > > > > > 2) how cool would it be if you had your core old school dudes able to fight off much bigger numbers because you put in the time > > > > > > > 3) currently teh system discourages new players (they have to grind for optimal stats) and doese not really reward old players > > > > > > > 4) this would make coming across a dimond player and such like oh snap its gunna get real > > > > > > > 5) this may encourge crazy broken over the limit builds that wouldnt be able to exist in a normal climate > > > > > > > 6) it would make wvw hilariously fun > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. Comparing it to WoW: It was never fun for me to kill green geared people in BGs while wearing full Arena gear. If someone was more geared than me, i didn't think it was "cool" that he could 2 shot me, it just made me feel bad for being undergeared and holding my team back > > > > > > 2. Not cool at all, if i couldn't kill someone in a 10v1 just because he has "better stats", and not "better skill", i would just go ahead and quit the game because i can't catch up. > > > > > > 3. This new system would discourage new players even more, because they have to grind ranks for optimal stats. How do they do that? By fighting those with higher stats and getting one-shot? Bad idea. Veterans are already rewarded by having more skill than new players. > > > > > > 4. It wouldn't be "oh snap", it would be "why even bother, just going to waypoint away" > > > > > > 5. Crazy broken builds are only fun for the person using them, they destroy gameplay balance > > > > > > 6. No, it would scare away new players with "lesser stats/builds", and create a situation where the only people playing are those with "op-builds". > > > > > > > > > > > > In my honest opinion this is an overall bad idea. > > > > > > > > > > > For the most part I actually agree with hence my other post how ever those other games seem to have thriving populations in their battle grounds while ours is really struggling (hoping this week brings in new blood) > > > > > However I think it would be a good idea if wvw went either extremely balanced with stats reigned in or extremely unbalanced with power gear fantasy the current system just I think imo is not working it's a barrier to entry for newer players (have to grind for at least hours if not days) and wvw ranks really don't mean much outside you use siege a little bit better, not a whole lot of incentive to keep playing > > > > > > > > Reigned in stats via amulets would kill build variety. I can only speak for Revs here, but there are way more WvW builds with "personality" by mixing stats than SPvP builds. (Examples: Obelix Ventari Roamer, Helly/Hobo's Hybrid Rev, Justine's Glasscannon Backbreaker Rev) > > > > > > > > I don't think the main problem of WvW balance are the stats, it mostly has to do with class balance and overloaded kits. > > > > Some classes are better for Zerging (Rev, Guardian, Necro), others are better for roaming (Thief, Mesmer, Ranger). Of course i would prefer it if every class would be "atleast good" for both gameplay styles, but amulets wouldn't change that. It has to do with what each class has to offer. > > > > > > > > I'm not sure if the amulet system would actually "lower" the barrier of entry, since it is already pretty low (Atleast for public zergs). > > > > > > > > The incentive to keep playing WvW should be that it is a fun gamemode, not ranking up or getter better stats. (Though Rewards could be better!) > > > > About the ranks not offering much: I can't really say how useful they are, since i'm not a full-time WvW player, so my opinion on them would not help. > > > > > > > > There's actually twice as many viable builds in pvp > > > > No, there isnt. Many people have stated this. There are more "viable" builds in WvW due to the lack of restrictions in stats/gear and add in consumables, makes the # of builds that are viable in WvW way more than pvp. > > > > How come metabattle which is actually update regularly has twice as many builds in every category and twice as many test builds? This is what you are misinterpreting then....."Viable" and "Meta" are 2 completely different things. A "viable" build is one that works....a "meta" build is one that is min/maxed for a specific task, thus cookie cutter. PvP needs more META as there isnt as many "viable" builds, whereas there are many many "viable" builds in WvW on top of "meta". You are confusing yourself between the 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleazar.9478 Posted February 25, 2019 Author Share Posted February 25, 2019 > @"Bigpapasmurf.5623" said: > > @"Eleazar.9478" said: > > > @"Bigpapasmurf.5623" said: > > > > @"Eleazar.9478" said: > > > > > @"Raknar.4735" said: > > > > > > @"Eleazar.9478" said: > > > > > > > @"Raknar.4735" said: > > > > > > > > @"Eleazar.9478" said: > > > > > > > > SO this must be awkward given my last posts, but if people dont want a balanced stat system in wvw maybe they should just go all in and make ranks give you more stats or such, If wvw is supposed to be unbalnced and gear dependent i think it would be best if they go all in (member how good it felt when you grinded out the vs guard stats for extra powr and vit) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) most mmos that have popular battlegrounds have unbalanced stats, player probably stick around because they get more powerful the more they play thus creating a really cool "ancient vampire" like power feedback loop > > > > > > > > 2) how cool would it be if you had your core old school dudes able to fight off much bigger numbers because you put in the time > > > > > > > > 3) currently teh system discourages new players (they have to grind for optimal stats) and doese not really reward old players > > > > > > > > 4) this would make coming across a dimond player and such like oh snap its gunna get real > > > > > > > > 5) this may encourge crazy broken over the limit builds that wouldnt be able to exist in a normal climate > > > > > > > > 6) it would make wvw hilariously fun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. Comparing it to WoW: It was never fun for me to kill green geared people in BGs while wearing full Arena gear. If someone was more geared than me, i didn't think it was "cool" that he could 2 shot me, it just made me feel bad for being undergeared and holding my team back > > > > > > > 2. Not cool at all, if i couldn't kill someone in a 10v1 just because he has "better stats", and not "better skill", i would just go ahead and quit the game because i can't catch up. > > > > > > > 3. This new system would discourage new players even more, because they have to grind ranks for optimal stats. How do they do that? By fighting those with higher stats and getting one-shot? Bad idea. Veterans are already rewarded by having more skill than new players. > > > > > > > 4. It wouldn't be "oh snap", it would be "why even bother, just going to waypoint away" > > > > > > > 5. Crazy broken builds are only fun for the person using them, they destroy gameplay balance > > > > > > > 6. No, it would scare away new players with "lesser stats/builds", and create a situation where the only people playing are those with "op-builds". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In my honest opinion this is an overall bad idea. > > > > > > > > > > > > > For the most part I actually agree with hence my other post how ever those other games seem to have thriving populations in their battle grounds while ours is really struggling (hoping this week brings in new blood) > > > > > > However I think it would be a good idea if wvw went either extremely balanced with stats reigned in or extremely unbalanced with power gear fantasy the current system just I think imo is not working it's a barrier to entry for newer players (have to grind for at least hours if not days) and wvw ranks really don't mean much outside you use siege a little bit better, not a whole lot of incentive to keep playing > > > > > > > > > > Reigned in stats via amulets would kill build variety. I can only speak for Revs here, but there are way more WvW builds with "personality" by mixing stats than SPvP builds. (Examples: Obelix Ventari Roamer, Helly/Hobo's Hybrid Rev, Justine's Glasscannon Backbreaker Rev) > > > > > > > > > > I don't think the main problem of WvW balance are the stats, it mostly has to do with class balance and overloaded kits. > > > > > Some classes are better for Zerging (Rev, Guardian, Necro), others are better for roaming (Thief, Mesmer, Ranger). Of course i would prefer it if every class would be "atleast good" for both gameplay styles, but amulets wouldn't change that. It has to do with what each class has to offer. > > > > > > > > > > I'm not sure if the amulet system would actually "lower" the barrier of entry, since it is already pretty low (Atleast for public zergs). > > > > > > > > > > The incentive to keep playing WvW should be that it is a fun gamemode, not ranking up or getter better stats. (Though Rewards could be better!) > > > > > About the ranks not offering much: I can't really say how useful they are, since i'm not a full-time WvW player, so my opinion on them would not help. > > > > > > > > > > > There's actually twice as many viable builds in pvp > > > > > > No, there isnt. Many people have stated this. There are more "viable" builds in WvW due to the lack of restrictions in stats/gear and add in consumables, makes the # of builds that are viable in WvW way more than pvp. > > > > > > > How come metabattle which is actually update regularly has twice as many builds in every category and twice as many test builds? > > This is what you are misinterpreting then....."Viable" and "Meta" are 2 completely different things. A "viable" build is one that works....a "meta" build is one that is min/maxed for a specific task, thus cookie cutter. PvP needs more META as there isnt as many "viable" builds, whereas there are many many "viable" builds in WvW on top of "meta". You are confusing yourself between the 2. I'm notz metabattle has different teirs of builds I've tried most of em they work great. Even the "good" rated builds The balance is so much better in PvP thus allowing for more less strong builds to survive (I'm constantly in plat (just about every season) so I'm not fighting newer or bad players) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juno.1840 Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 They had this feature already -- it was when the WvW Masteries had "guard stacks". You required enough WvW ranks to get the max tier in those masteries, which would then award significant stat bonuses once you've killed a certain number of guards. It would last until you died. All this created was a disparity between low-rank players vs. high-rank players. In other words, a time-played advantage. It's bad for the game mode to give advantages that are not related to "skill". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigpapasmurf.5623 Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 > @"Eleazar.9478" said: > > @"Bigpapasmurf.5623" said: > > > @"Eleazar.9478" said: > > > > @"Bigpapasmurf.5623" said: > > > > > @"Eleazar.9478" said: > > > > > > @"Raknar.4735" said: > > > > > > > @"Eleazar.9478" said: > > > > > > > > @"Raknar.4735" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Eleazar.9478" said: > > > > > > > > > SO this must be awkward given my last posts, but if people dont want a balanced stat system in wvw maybe they should just go all in and make ranks give you more stats or such, If wvw is supposed to be unbalnced and gear dependent i think it would be best if they go all in (member how good it felt when you grinded out the vs guard stats for extra powr and vit) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) most mmos that have popular battlegrounds have unbalanced stats, player probably stick around because they get more powerful the more they play thus creating a really cool "ancient vampire" like power feedback loop > > > > > > > > > 2) how cool would it be if you had your core old school dudes able to fight off much bigger numbers because you put in the time > > > > > > > > > 3) currently teh system discourages new players (they have to grind for optimal stats) and doese not really reward old players > > > > > > > > > 4) this would make coming across a dimond player and such like oh snap its gunna get real > > > > > > > > > 5) this may encourge crazy broken over the limit builds that wouldnt be able to exist in a normal climate > > > > > > > > > 6) it would make wvw hilariously fun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. Comparing it to WoW: It was never fun for me to kill green geared people in BGs while wearing full Arena gear. If someone was more geared than me, i didn't think it was "cool" that he could 2 shot me, it just made me feel bad for being undergeared and holding my team back > > > > > > > > 2. Not cool at all, if i couldn't kill someone in a 10v1 just because he has "better stats", and not "better skill", i would just go ahead and quit the game because i can't catch up. > > > > > > > > 3. This new system would discourage new players even more, because they have to grind ranks for optimal stats. How do they do that? By fighting those with higher stats and getting one-shot? Bad idea. Veterans are already rewarded by having more skill than new players. > > > > > > > > 4. It wouldn't be "oh snap", it would be "why even bother, just going to waypoint away" > > > > > > > > 5. Crazy broken builds are only fun for the person using them, they destroy gameplay balance > > > > > > > > 6. No, it would scare away new players with "lesser stats/builds", and create a situation where the only people playing are those with "op-builds". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In my honest opinion this is an overall bad idea. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For the most part I actually agree with hence my other post how ever those other games seem to have thriving populations in their battle grounds while ours is really struggling (hoping this week brings in new blood) > > > > > > > However I think it would be a good idea if wvw went either extremely balanced with stats reigned in or extremely unbalanced with power gear fantasy the current system just I think imo is not working it's a barrier to entry for newer players (have to grind for at least hours if not days) and wvw ranks really don't mean much outside you use siege a little bit better, not a whole lot of incentive to keep playing > > > > > > > > > > > > Reigned in stats via amulets would kill build variety. I can only speak for Revs here, but there are way more WvW builds with "personality" by mixing stats than SPvP builds. (Examples: Obelix Ventari Roamer, Helly/Hobo's Hybrid Rev, Justine's Glasscannon Backbreaker Rev) > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't think the main problem of WvW balance are the stats, it mostly has to do with class balance and overloaded kits. > > > > > > Some classes are better for Zerging (Rev, Guardian, Necro), others are better for roaming (Thief, Mesmer, Ranger). Of course i would prefer it if every class would be "atleast good" for both gameplay styles, but amulets wouldn't change that. It has to do with what each class has to offer. > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not sure if the amulet system would actually "lower" the barrier of entry, since it is already pretty low (Atleast for public zergs). > > > > > > > > > > > > The incentive to keep playing WvW should be that it is a fun gamemode, not ranking up or getter better stats. (Though Rewards could be better!) > > > > > > About the ranks not offering much: I can't really say how useful they are, since i'm not a full-time WvW player, so my opinion on them would not help. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There's actually twice as many viable builds in pvp > > > > > > > > No, there isnt. Many people have stated this. There are more "viable" builds in WvW due to the lack of restrictions in stats/gear and add in consumables, makes the # of builds that are viable in WvW way more than pvp. > > > > > > > > > > How come metabattle which is actually update regularly has twice as many builds in every category and twice as many test builds? > > > > This is what you are misinterpreting then....."Viable" and "Meta" are 2 completely different things. A "viable" build is one that works....a "meta" build is one that is min/maxed for a specific task, thus cookie cutter. PvP needs more META as there isnt as many "viable" builds, whereas there are many many "viable" builds in WvW on top of "meta". You are confusing yourself between the 2. > > I'm notz metabattle has different teirs of builds I've tried most of em they work great. Even the "good" rated builds The balance is so much better in PvP thus allowing for more less strong builds to survive (I'm constantly in plat (just about every season) so I'm not fighting newer or bad players) An an Ex PvPer who was hitting plat who is currently a WvW'er, that means nothing in terms of what works in PvP vs WvW. Still have way more build diversity in WvW, thus more to work with, this more "viable" builds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleazar.9478 Posted February 25, 2019 Author Share Posted February 25, 2019 > @"Bigpapasmurf.5623" said: > > An an Ex PvPer who was hitting plat who is currently a WvW'er, that means nothing in terms of what works in PvP vs WvW. Still have way more build diversity in WvW, thus more to work with, this more "viable" builds > how so? roamers just use pvp dueling builds or 1 shot with monir rune changes and zergs just use pvp teamfighting builds, the only diffrnece really is that one has crazy more stats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigpapasmurf.5623 Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 > @"Eleazar.9478" said: > > @"Bigpapasmurf.5623" said: > > > > > An an Ex PvPer who was hitting plat who is currently a WvW'er, that means nothing in terms of what works in PvP vs WvW. Still have way more build diversity in WvW, thus more to work with, this more "viable" builds > > > > how so? roamers just use pvp dueling builds or 1 shot with monir rune changes and zergs just use pvp teamfighting builds, the only diffrnece really is that one has crazy more stats As a roamer/small scale commander, I don't run a PvP build and don't do 1 shot (happened once but was a zerk ele on a cata and iirc was a very low rank so doesn't count lol). There's more to WvW that "PvP dueling builds" and "1 shot" builds for starters. A good roamer compensates for both....sort of a hybrid so to speak. Your 1st mistake was taking things like metabattle as gospel. Less people I find run meta now than say 1 or 2 years ago. Again...you are confusing "viable" with "meta". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Safandula.8723 Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 Dude I'll reply last time in ur thread cuz it seems pointless Wvw has balance issues, but they come from shitty mechanics/scaling/traits. Amulet system wouldn't change anything,sic em would still give 40% bonus dmg, malicious backstabs would still have crazy dmg modifications, assassin signet would still grant 540 power. Things that need to see change are the ones I mentioned above. If ppl want to go full berserker, then let them they are squishy, 1 shot build are problematic cuz of crazy range dmg in this game and junk stealth mechanic (yea i play thief and i say stealth is junk). If ppl want to be tanky, let them, just reduce base dmg of skills so they don't hit for 2k with aa in tank stats. Unless traits/scaling/skills won't get changes, amulets won't change anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleazar.9478 Posted February 25, 2019 Author Share Posted February 25, 2019 > @"Safandula.8723" said: > Dude I'll reply last time in ur thread cuz it seems pointless > Wvw has balance issues, but they come from kitten mechanics/scaling/traits. Amulet system wouldn't change anything,sic em would still give 40% bonus dmg, malicious backstabs would still have crazy dmg modifications, assassin signet would still grant 540 power. Things that need to see change are the ones I mentioned above. > If ppl want to go full berserker, then let them they are squishy, 1 shot build are problematic cuz of crazy range dmg in this game and junk stealth mechanic (yea i play thief and i say stealth is junk). > If ppl want to be tanky, let them, just reduce base dmg of skills so they don't hit for 2k with aa in tank stats. > Unless traits/scaling/skills won't get changes, amulets won't change anything. > hey its a conversation on a discussion forum, I apologize if you are tired of me taking part but I'm trying to point out issues, (hence why i have two opposing posts) and its more than just modifiers because you can do wayyy more damage, healing, boon duration in wvw than pvp this is becuase of stats, so something that works well in pvp get a huge boost in wvw, for example try 1 shoting with glass beast or deadeye, a competent team will delete you (in pvp) , 1 reason is your bursts do usually about half as much thus making you have to use more skills and more hits while wvw heck you down people 1 skill. that same issue also has an effect on sustain, whats strong team fighter/team support becomes super tanky and heals crazy amounts with perma boon uptime, I encourage you try numbers its insane the power disparety between the two. Thanks for at least engaging Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash.9213 Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 The structure of WvW itself has to grow and keep up with the rest of the game, messing with individual players doesn't help that. People want to work on their builds, make stuff blow up, and run around with their guilds/teams, it's not fun working on your build against new players with npc stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleazar.9478 Posted February 25, 2019 Author Share Posted February 25, 2019 > @"Bigpapasmurf.5623" said: > > @"Eleazar.9478" said: > > > @"Bigpapasmurf.5623" said: > > > > > > > > An an Ex PvPer who was hitting plat who is currently a WvW'er, that means nothing in terms of what works in PvP vs WvW. Still have way more build diversity in WvW, thus more to work with, this more "viable" builds > > > > > > > how so? roamers just use pvp dueling builds or 1 shot with monir rune changes and zergs just use pvp teamfighting builds, the only diffrnece really is that one has crazy more stats > > As a roamer/small scale commander, I don't run a PvP build and don't do 1 shot (happened once but was a zerk ele on a cata and iirc was a very low rank so doesn't count lol). There's more to WvW that "PvP dueling builds" and "1 shot" builds for starters. A good roamer compensates for both....sort of a hybrid so to speak. Your 1st mistake was taking things like metabattle as gospel. Less people I find run meta now than say 1 or 2 years ago. Again...you are confusing "viable" with "meta". Give examples please and im not confusing meta with viable, i pointed out metabattle has a pretty up to date snap shot of viable builds (if a build is listed good its a viable build) ive even tried alot of those builds becuase its a great resource to use when learning other classes and have done fine with them against plat players (i only bring up the rank to emphasize this is against good/compentant players) A conclusion that can be drawn that sense so many diff builds are viable that means the balance is actually really healthy (yes there is still some realy overtooned builds but theres deffinly no instawin, those builds however when broguht to wvw usually end up being wayy overtooned due to the huge stat increase which makes your skills that might be string even more strong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korgov.7645 Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 > @"Hitman.5829" said: > Posts like this are the reason why we need thumbs down option like when the forums were released. Dissent without any explanation is not very useful, is it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigpapasmurf.5623 Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 > @"Eleazar.9478" said: > > @"Bigpapasmurf.5623" said: > > > @"Eleazar.9478" said: > > > > @"Bigpapasmurf.5623" said: > > > > > > > > > > > An an Ex PvPer who was hitting plat who is currently a WvW'er, that means nothing in terms of what works in PvP vs WvW. Still have way more build diversity in WvW, thus more to work with, this more "viable" builds > > > > > > > > > > how so? roamers just use pvp dueling builds or 1 shot with monir rune changes and zergs just use pvp teamfighting builds, the only diffrnece really is that one has crazy more stats > > > > As a roamer/small scale commander, I don't run a PvP build and don't do 1 shot (happened once but was a zerk ele on a cata and iirc was a very low rank so doesn't count lol). There's more to WvW that "PvP dueling builds" and "1 shot" builds for starters. A good roamer compensates for both....sort of a hybrid so to speak. Your 1st mistake was taking things like metabattle as gospel. Less people I find run meta now than say 1 or 2 years ago. Again...you are confusing "viable" with "meta". > > Give examples please and im not confusing meta with viable, i pointed out metabattle has a pretty up to date snap shot of viable builds (if a build is listed good its a viable build) ive even tried alot of those builds becuase its a great resource to use when learning other classes and have done fine with them against plat players (i only bring up the rank to emphasize this is against good/compentant players) A conclusion that can be drawn that sense so many diff builds are viable that means the balance is actually really healthy (yes there is still some realy overtooned builds but theres deffinly no instawin, those builds however when broguht to wvw usually end up being wayy overtooned due to the huge stat increase which makes your skills that might be string even more strong. You think that metabattle will have every....single....viable build out there? Ive created builds that people are still using in WvW that wouldnt work in PvP as well that metabattle doesnt have. Im still using builds Ive made that are viable in WvW that are not in metabattle....most aren't even close. When it comes to builds that are viable in PvP and WvW....thoerycrafters know. regardless how much stronger the builds can be in WvW, they are still viable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleazar.9478 Posted February 25, 2019 Author Share Posted February 25, 2019 > @"Bigpapasmurf.5623" said: > > @"Eleazar.9478" said: > > > @"Bigpapasmurf.5623" said: > > > > @"Eleazar.9478" said: > > > > > @"Bigpapasmurf.5623" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > An an Ex PvPer who was hitting plat who is currently a WvW'er, that means nothing in terms of what works in PvP vs WvW. Still have way more build diversity in WvW, thus more to work with, this more "viable" builds > > > > > > > > > > > > > how so? roamers just use pvp dueling builds or 1 shot with monir rune changes and zergs just use pvp teamfighting builds, the only diffrnece really is that one has crazy more stats > > > > > > As a roamer/small scale commander, I don't run a PvP build and don't do 1 shot (happened once but was a zerk ele on a cata and iirc was a very low rank so doesn't count lol). There's more to WvW that "PvP dueling builds" and "1 shot" builds for starters. A good roamer compensates for both....sort of a hybrid so to speak. Your 1st mistake was taking things like metabattle as gospel. Less people I find run meta now than say 1 or 2 years ago. Again...you are confusing "viable" with "meta". > > > > Give examples please and im not confusing meta with viable, i pointed out metabattle has a pretty up to date snap shot of viable builds (if a build is listed good its a viable build) ive even tried alot of those builds becuase its a great resource to use when learning other classes and have done fine with them against plat players (i only bring up the rank to emphasize this is against good/compentant players) A conclusion that can be drawn that sense so many diff builds are viable that means the balance is actually really healthy (yes there is still some realy overtooned builds but theres deffinly no instawin, those builds however when broguht to wvw usually end up being wayy overtooned due to the huge stat increase which makes your skills that might be string even more strong. > > You think that metabattle will have every....single....viable build out there? Ive created builds that people are still using in WvW that wouldnt work in PvP as well that metabattle doesnt have. Im still using builds Ive made that are viable in WvW that are not in metabattle....most aren't even close. When it comes to builds that are viable in PvP and WvW....thoerycrafters know. regardless how much stronger the builds can be in WvW, they are still viable. I never said that I'm saying it's a good snapshot, and its the only source you can really point out and it's updated regularly the mods have done an excellent job with it this past year and give some hard examples I'm all ears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anduriell.6280 Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 * Just saying but we already have the leg armor for grind. * We have the wvw trinkets that work like the bloodstone ones (need to buy special item to reset them) but with all the stats in the game. as such almost legendary trinkets. We have enough grind in the game mode. * What about giving gold + an new exclusive wvw skin of choice of a weapon set if you finish the week first? * Just gold + a big box of materials for second? Ascended, laurels, crafting.... * And gold for the third? * What about giving significant buffs stats to the PvE side of the game depending on your WvW world \ guild and their position in the last match? * What about all get buffs, just more the better your world does? * And to opt for those buffs you should have the loyalty bonus in your account (play at least to finish the wood rank) * And when you finish the collection for the weapon sets you get something really cool? (skins or infusion something flashy to show your guild is a winner) And then after some time when most of the guilds finish the collection you bring collection 2 into the game. No need even to change the basic rewards, just to add the new weapon skins to the chest so whoever didnt finish the first can still continue with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigpapasmurf.5623 Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 > @"Eleazar.9478" said: > > @"Bigpapasmurf.5623" said: > > > @"Eleazar.9478" said: > > > > @"Bigpapasmurf.5623" said: > > > > > @"Eleazar.9478" said: > > > > > > @"Bigpapasmurf.5623" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > An an Ex PvPer who was hitting plat who is currently a WvW'er, that means nothing in terms of what works in PvP vs WvW. Still have way more build diversity in WvW, thus more to work with, this more "viable" builds > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > how so? roamers just use pvp dueling builds or 1 shot with monir rune changes and zergs just use pvp teamfighting builds, the only diffrnece really is that one has crazy more stats > > > > > > > > As a roamer/small scale commander, I don't run a PvP build and don't do 1 shot (happened once but was a zerk ele on a cata and iirc was a very low rank so doesn't count lol). There's more to WvW that "PvP dueling builds" and "1 shot" builds for starters. A good roamer compensates for both....sort of a hybrid so to speak. Your 1st mistake was taking things like metabattle as gospel. Less people I find run meta now than say 1 or 2 years ago. Again...you are confusing "viable" with "meta". > > > > > > Give examples please and im not confusing meta with viable, i pointed out metabattle has a pretty up to date snap shot of viable builds (if a build is listed good its a viable build) ive even tried alot of those builds becuase its a great resource to use when learning other classes and have done fine with them against plat players (i only bring up the rank to emphasize this is against good/compentant players) A conclusion that can be drawn that sense so many diff builds are viable that means the balance is actually really healthy (yes there is still some realy overtooned builds but theres deffinly no instawin, those builds however when broguht to wvw usually end up being wayy overtooned due to the huge stat increase which makes your skills that might be string even more strong. > > > > You think that metabattle will have every....single....viable build out there? Ive created builds that people are still using in WvW that wouldnt work in PvP as well that metabattle doesnt have. Im still using builds Ive made that are viable in WvW that are not in metabattle....most aren't even close. When it comes to builds that are viable in PvP and WvW....thoerycrafters know. regardless how much stronger the builds can be in WvW, they are still viable. > > I never said that I'm saying it's a good snapshot, and its the only source you can really point out and it's updated regularly the mods have done an excellent job with it this past year and give some hard examples I'm all ears. Lets see.... My viable builds in no particular order: 1.) P/P scrapper (only issue is vs condi mirage and those eles that can cleanse all condis in under 5 seconds lol...all else it rocks) 2.) Marauder/Valk DPS Mirage 3.) Staff/LB Druid 4.) Hammer Scrapper (Knights/Marauder) 5.) Hammer/GS Core Warrior Those are 5 I can think of that I either run with, or have others running with that works for them (all are WvW). Theres prob more, but im at work and cant think of any others. I remember back in the day before meta was a thing I had like 5 builds for every class that worked. I was 2 guild's thoerycrafter....those were the days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleazar.9478 Posted February 25, 2019 Author Share Posted February 25, 2019 > @"anduriell.6280" said: > * Just saying but we already have the leg armor for grind. > * We have the wvw trinkets that work like the bloodstone ones (need to buy special item to reset them) but with all the stats in the game. as such almost legendary trinkets. > > We have enough grind in the game mode. > * What about giving gold + an new exclusive wvw skin of choice of a weapon set if you finish the week first? > * Just gold + a big box of materials for second? Ascended, laurels, crafting.... > * And gold for the third? > > * What about giving significant buffs stats to the PvE side of the game depending on your WvW world \ guild and their position in the last match? > * What about all get buffs, just more the better your world does? > * And to opt for those buffs you should have the loyalty bonus in your account (play at least to finish the wood rank) > * And when you finish the collection for the weapon sets you get something really cool? (skins or infusion something flashy to show your guild is a winner) > > And then after some time when most of the guilds finish the collection you bring collection 2 into the game. No need even to change the basic rewards, just to add the new weapon skins to the chest so whoever didnt finish the first can still continue with it. Here's my thing the end state of the grind is what to be equal with everyone else? The ability to change stats easily? Play a build competivly? Why not just remove that wall and put everyone on equal footing (this was made because when I saw they should do a amulet system the most common complaint was but I grinded for my stats), the whole reason why RPGs came up with gear systems in the first place was to make you feel that power fantasy of getting stronger and better. Wvw I believe tries to be both poorly balance players out and has unbalanced stats for players who grind it, so it's like for anew player a pretty grind Hill and when you get to the top it flattens out. I think that's a huge issue on why it's not as popular commpaired to it's peers in the genre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voltekka.2375 Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 Delete, other thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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