Henry.5713 Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 WvW offers a rather wide range of content. There is more to the mode than just zerging and Pip farming or those mean gankers who have been killing you while you tried to get back to your zerg. Different people enjoy everything from solo roaming and scouting to said open tag zerging. There is havocing and there are hardcore GvGs. There are closed tags of different sizes, PPT lovers and so on. We love the mode because it allows us to do all of those things at once or just one of them or none while we roleplay as frogs. People feared the mount would negatively affect different parts of the content offered by the mode and that pretty much came true. The design behind the mounts seems to be mostly focus around this type of casual or new player. Another fear that was voiced before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lagrangewei.8516 Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 > @"alain.1659" said: > You all need to take out your heads of your tushies and realize that the scouting is an important part of the wvw tactics and warclaw is legitimately killing it. uh, i actually think it encourage scouting as scout will use the mount themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biczkowski.2961 Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 > @"Neftex.7594" said: > oh no my one shot cheese build won't work on mounted folks I see your problem :cookie: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alain.1659 Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 > @"lagrangewei.8516" said: > > @"alain.1659" said: > > You all need to take out your heads of your tushies and realize that the scouting is an important part of the wvw tactics and warclaw is legitimately killing it. > > uh, i actually think it encourage scouting as scout will use the mount themselves. > > It might seem like that at the first look but it prevents counter-scouting due to mount being immune to cc and you cannot let an enemy scout watch your movements and report it back. It also prevents capturing camps if you are less than 3 people, as the mount catches up to you quickly (as I have experienced last night). Problem is that only PoF users can use mounts. This is a huge imbalance. Without PoF, it already is hard to scout and roam (not gank, I mean roam). With the mounts the mobility aspect is done and gone. What advantage is there to play a mobile character, if the mobility can be covered by mount? Let me give an example from a DH perspective (as it is the easiest example). DH-1 uses mounts, so he does not need to invest in fireworks runes or ms trait. DH-2 does not have a mount so he is forced to invest. AoE stomp is another issue. I never liked frontline zerging that much so maybe someone more experienced should comment on mounts and their effects on zergs. Last night was the first, so it was expected to have some irregularities. Only good thing is that it will increase the build diversity for PoF users, which is needed for all game modes but especially in wvw. No profession should be forced to take a traitline (soul reaping, trickery, virtues, water etc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neftex.7594 Posted March 6, 2019 Author Share Posted March 6, 2019 > @"biczkowski.2961" said: > > @"Neftex.7594" said: > > oh no my one shot cheese build won't work on mounted folks > I see your problem :cookie: > > you dont see my problem, one shot build are the ones that can manage to dismount someone, others cant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killahmayne.9518 Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > @"killahmayne.9518" said: > > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > the question is why do you want to fight the opponent? > > > it will be harder to fight for the sake of it against an opponent that is unwilling. > > > however if you fight over something, like a camp, sentry, tower, keep, dolyak etc whatever then you shouldnt have trouble getting your fights. > > > > you heard it here folks > > > > somebody asking why you would want to fight in world vs world > > > > lol > > > > you do realize preventing people from making it to objectives in order to defend it is also legitimate WvW strategy right? And ganking is also a legitimate strategy in order to reduce numbers of a zerg or preventing them from being able to contribute to a zerg vs zerg fight? Who are people to say what is and what isn't WvW? > > i think you misunderstood. > i only wanted the OP to think about what he is complaining. > you can still small scale fight and gank people plenty. > > the thing that mainly is affected are ganks **on the road**, therefor without any nearby objective against an opponent unwilling to fight you (usually in a disadvantageous build for it). yes that is part of the game and a 'legitimate strategy' and its efficiency is being reduced. i have made plenty of such ganks on the road, having played mostly solo thief for years. but i also have seen that people can deal much better with a lost fight or gank when it happens in a fight over an objective, than if it happens on the road. probably because then i have a more valid reason for such an 'unfair' fight. so putting the focus more to ganks on objectives is IMO a good thing as it should keep people a little more in the mode. its important how your opponent feels on a loss, if you need opponents to have someone to play with. > If the intended objective of bringing in mounts was to "nerf" ganks then why not just nerf mobility of certain builds like soulbeast, mirage and certain thief skills? It literally makes no sense to bring in something that is unpredictable and potentially game breaking rather than tuning down what is already there. If they wanted to focus more on objectives there are 1000 things ANet could have done to emphasize that other than bringing in mounts. Which leads me to think there were other reasons why mounts were brought out much more than so called "focus on less ganking". There is nothing "unfair" about being "ganked". It's fair game. By that virtue the zerg with the most numbers is "unfair". If you die by getting ganked 80-90% of the time it is your fault. It's very easy not to get ganked over non-objectives with a little bit of awareness. It literally doesn't matter how an opponent feels on a loss, anybody can take anything, any which way. If a person doesn't want to fight, then he has to work on his positioning and his ability to disengage and then he is rewarded with avoiding the fight. He's gonna have to work for it just like a person who wants to engage in combat. Mounts in this game basically presents an easy get out of jail free card which bails people out on their lack of awareness and basic skill. The focus overall becomes less on class mechanics and class specific gameplay/strategy to something as gimmicky as mounts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUDse.7623 Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 > @"killahmayne.9518" said: > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > @"killahmayne.9518" said: > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > > the question is why do you want to fight the opponent? > > > > it will be harder to fight for the sake of it against an opponent that is unwilling. > > > > however if you fight over something, like a camp, sentry, tower, keep, dolyak etc whatever then you shouldnt have trouble getting your fights. > > > > > > you heard it here folks > > > > > > somebody asking why you would want to fight in world vs world > > > > > > lol > > > > > > you do realize preventing people from making it to objectives in order to defend it is also legitimate WvW strategy right? And ganking is also a legitimate strategy in order to reduce numbers of a zerg or preventing them from being able to contribute to a zerg vs zerg fight? Who are people to say what is and what isn't WvW? > > > > i think you misunderstood. > > i only wanted the OP to think about what he is complaining. > > you can still small scale fight and gank people plenty. > > > > the thing that mainly is affected are ganks **on the road**, therefor without any nearby objective against an opponent unwilling to fight you (usually in a disadvantageous build for it). yes that is part of the game and a 'legitimate strategy' and its efficiency is being reduced. i have made plenty of such ganks on the road, having played mostly solo thief for years. but i also have seen that people can deal much better with a lost fight or gank when it happens in a fight over an objective, than if it happens on the road. probably because then i have a more valid reason for such an 'unfair' fight. so putting the focus more to ganks on objectives is IMO a good thing as it should keep people a little more in the mode. its important how your opponent feels on a loss, if you need opponents to have someone to play with. > > > > > If the intended objective of bringing in mounts was to "nerf" ganks then why not just nerf mobility of certain builds like soulbeast, mirage and certain thief skills? It literally makes no sense to bring in something that is unpredictable and potentially game breaking rather than tuning down what is already there. If they wanted to focus more on objectives there are 1000 things ANet could have done to emphasize that other than bringing in mounts. Which leads me to think there were other reasons why mounts were brought out much more than so called "focus on less ganking". no i dont think that this was the main intent and further i dont think that minor nerfs to these professions would change something, unless you would nerf them to be unviable. i think it was mainly aimed at getting more people to try and stay in WvW, then it was for actual WvW veterans. > There is nothing "unfair" about being "ganked". It's fair game. By that virtue the zerg with the most numbers is "unfair". If you die by getting ganked 80-90% of the time it is your fault. It's very easy not to get ganked over non-objectives with a little bit of awareness. It literally doesn't matter how an opponent feels on a loss, anybody can take anything, any which way. If a person doesn't want to fight, then he has to work on his positioning and his ability to disengage and then he is rewarded with avoiding the fight. He's gonna have to work for it just like a person who wants to engage in combat. Mounts in this game basically presents an easy get out of jail free card which bails people out on their lack of awareness and basic skill. The focus overall becomes less on class mechanics and class specific gameplay/strategy to something as gimmicky as mounts. obviously its ones own fault if you get ganked. thats why i did wrote it in the way i did. it was to emphesize that the ones on the recieving end often do feel like that. and yes it does matter how your opponents feel. maybe not in the moment, but it matters in the long run. both sides in a fight need to have fun and should not be too discouraged from a loss, so that they stay and try again. the game has evolved. utilizing everything new to maximum effect is part of skill. yes people now might escape fights that they couldnt without a mount, yet you only need as much awareness and 'skill' to avoid a fight as the options you have at hand require. it is now no longer enough to have a better ganking build to claim the loot. if it is too inefficient to gank people sight seeing, gank people while they are participating. the choice of where and how to hunt is also part of your skill as a ganker, yet you only see their 'lack' of skill for using the abilities at their hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aleen.8561 Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 > @"L A T I O N.8923" said: > Wvw is either zerging or roaming? Euh? Of course not :) And small groups would benefit as well if there were less roamers and more players to organize. That was my main point. Never meant to offend anyone :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L A T I O N.8923 Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 > @"Aleen.8561" said: > > @"L A T I O N.8923" said: > > Wvw is either zerging or roaming? Euh? > Of course not :) And small groups would benefit as well if there were less roamers and more players to organize. That was my main point. Never meant to offend anyone :) Ive had some small group fights yesterday They all started on the mount It was either a staring contest or grab the enemy offguard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jen.6021 Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 > @"L A T I O N.8923" said: > > @"Aleen.8561" said: > > > @"L A T I O N.8923" said: > > > Wvw is either zerging or roaming? Euh? > > Of course not :) And small groups would benefit as well if there were less roamers and more players to organize. That was my main point. Never meant to offend anyone :) > > Ive had some small group fights yesterday > They all started on the mount > It was either a staring contest or grab the enemy offguard i can relate, and actually the first who use engage skill is already at disvantage, totally ruined the way of the fights at smale scale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eramonster.2718 Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 > @"derd.6413" said: > > @"Neftex.7594" said: > > > @"derd.6413" said: > > > > @"Neftex.7594" said: > > > > > @"derd.6413" said: > > > > > that'd require some time to test. > > > > > did you already forget my first post? > > > > > > > > ye i read it, but i expected you to recognize mechanics that arent counterable... you cant counter dodge while also having CC immunity, you cant counter extra speed without even more speed... > > > > > > a massive target with 12k health with barely(?) any toughness isn't a massive exploitable weakness to you > > > > because its not. it requires you to waste 12k damage JUST to stop them from running, effectively giving them barrier of 12k. you need to catch them first (gl, they got extra speed) > > how horrible, ganking some rando who's not interested in fighting you might require actual effort, oh the humanity I think they're interested to fight(I do). But prefer to wait for the right time eg. Cd's down or while they're occupied. :grimace: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derd.6413 Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 > @"Eramonster.2718" said: > > @"derd.6413" said: > > > @"Neftex.7594" said: > > > > @"derd.6413" said: > > > > > @"Neftex.7594" said: > > > > > > @"derd.6413" said: > > > > > > that'd require some time to test. > > > > > > did you already forget my first post? > > > > > > > > > > ye i read it, but i expected you to recognize mechanics that arent counterable... you cant counter dodge while also having CC immunity, you cant counter extra speed without even more speed... > > > > > > > > a massive target with 12k health with barely(?) any toughness isn't a massive exploitable weakness to you > > > > > > because its not. it requires you to waste 12k damage JUST to stop them from running, effectively giving them barrier of 12k. you need to catch them first (gl, they got extra speed) > > > > how horrible, ganking some rando who's not interested in fighting you might require actual effort, oh the humanity > > I think they're interested to fight(I do). But prefer to wait for the right time eg. Cd's down or while they're occupied. :grimace: i doubt many ppl trying to catch up to a zerg is interested in dueling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiniMe.1960 Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 > @"Neftex.7594" said: > Are you guys serious? This is what you sound like - "i dont wanna fight in pvp game mode so you have to leave me alone until i decide you can have a fight". The hell is wrong with you It's called care bears. I want to hide in the zerg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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