Koen.1327 Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 > @"zoopop.5630" said: > > @"Mbelch.9028" said: > > > @"toxic.3648" said: > > > > @"Mbelch.9028" said: > > > > > @"Odik.4587" said: > > > > > ...Snips... > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm confused about your whole back and forth with @"Vagrant.7206" as the following set of statements are as close to "facts" as you get: > > > > * It's not possible for the META builds to stack 25 stacks of might unless they get very lucky on a conversion build, and it's plain old not possible on its own in a rifle build. > > > > * There's no such thing as a one-shot Holosmith build that is viable in any realm of high-level PvP. > > > > * When debating what is or isn't "a one shot build" it's hard to lump engineer in with that. No one skill has one-shot people on engi since 100-nades. The build I think you dislike is a spike build that utilizes a lot of CC plus a lot of little hits to kill you quickly. But it doesn't always work against skilled players and it doesn't work in games. > > > > * Holo dishes out great damage and can still survive a licking, which some certainly would see as a problem. But folks always see problems. Too much damage? That's a problem. Too little damage? That's a problem. Too many condis? That's a problem. Too many bruisers? That's a problem. There's no panacea for balance, and Holo sits pretty well in the meta right now. It has counters and it counters certain classes. Seems fine to me right now. > > > > > >  > > > > > > it is possible to get 25 stacks of might on elixir build. holo can ez self stack 12-15 stacks of might. now imagine getting some dmg and hidden flask b pops with another 7 might. now ure at 19-22 stacks. convert a torment and we're at 22-25 stacks . mind u this is easely done without even trying on "META ELIXIR SD BUILD" > > > > > > so holo downing the heavy golem in 2 sec from a combo that can be done every 15 sec is not counted as 1 shot? i mean it uses 5-6 skills to pull this off but when u look at power mesmer using 5-6 skills pulling off the same thing in 1 sec thats considered 1 shot while holo is considered spike? > > > in that case id rather fight a power mes any day since u know theres no dmg comming after his burst while holo is gonna keep nuking u after burst rotation is done > > > > > > also i play in plat 2-3 in EU when i can be asked to bother with ranked . this 1 spike burst is happening on meta elixir build in those divisions. why spec for offmeta 1 sec 1 shot build when normal meta build does the same thing in 2 secs ?? > > > > > > the problem with holo is it got too much of everything. /perma swiftness and vigor/easy acces to stab and quickness/sustain is easy 15k healing every 20 sec when counting HT and passives/enough dmg to down a max toughness, 21k hp golem in 2 secs from 1 rotation/the fact that they got 6 sec aoe stealth on 31 sec cd(closest we get to this is mesmer elite 5 sec stealth on 90 cd. thats 18 sec of engi stealth for mes 5 lol)/easy cc on short cd/mobility and superspeed to disengage/invul for those 'oh kitten' moments/constant output of 5-6 boons when fighting/being tanky on top of all this since demo amulet is bae... i mean i could go on but im sure u get the picture by now. > > > > > > sure stacked up to other pof specs it might not seem like much but as i already said. only classes holo feels weak to right now is wellplayed warriors and necros(corrupt boons) boonbeast is just stalemate.. > > > and ive been playing only holo since pof released > > > > If you've only been playing Holo, then why are you trying to drag it down? I've historically called for Holo shaves, but real nerfs need to be done in conjunction with nerfing other specs, too. > > > > That's my point, it's not out of line with the meta. If you play one-shot holo, you're irrelevant, if you play Demolishers DPS (very different from one-shot) you're outclassed DPS wise by rev, if you play bunker conversion, you bring team utility, but are a worse bunker than a scrapper. > > > > Holo isn't out of line with anything that is currently played, so I can't agree with just about anything you're saying until PoF is toned down as a whole. Even then, HoT will need to be re-addressed, too. Everything is creeped to hell past core. > > > > PS: To your pic, it's not possible to sustain 25 stacks of might on that build. Maybe get there especially with leadership, but I don't particularly love HGH. Good call-out though. That build stacks might higher than the iron-blood builds I'm used to running. > > someone with actual logic and common sense. > > I'll like to see these Holo Build with 25 might stack In a video if possible showing everything they are running and how exactly they are getting "25" might stack. Not word by mouth and paper calculation half assed by eu players. Someone earlier said you can Use Exilir S for +2 might stacks without also saying you'll be useless to dps for 3 seconds by then you'll lose some of your stacks..... > > @"toxic.3648" Make a video if you can so i can see what exactly im doing wrong cause most amount of might stack im able to stack was 15 and that's with all my offensive elixirs being used + CornaBurst. I just need to see these viable 25 stack might builds on holo that are possibly being played all around ! here you can see a top holosmith popping his rotation and i think he reached 21 or 24 stacks of might edit, at 7:10 mark he kills a thief with corona burst, granting him the last of his 25 might stack (in a 1v2 btw) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odik.4587 Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 > @"Koen.1327" said: > > @"zoopop.5630" said: > > > @"Mbelch.9028" said: > > > > @"toxic.3648" said: > > > > > @"Mbelch.9028" said: > > > > > > @"Odik.4587" said: > > > > > > ...Snips... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm confused about your whole back and forth with @"Vagrant.7206" as the following set of statements are as close to "facts" as you get: > > > > > * It's not possible for the META builds to stack 25 stacks of might unless they get very lucky on a conversion build, and it's plain old not possible on its own in a rifle build. > > > > > * There's no such thing as a one-shot Holosmith build that is viable in any realm of high-level PvP. > > > > > * When debating what is or isn't "a one shot build" it's hard to lump engineer in with that. No one skill has one-shot people on engi since 100-nades. The build I think you dislike is a spike build that utilizes a lot of CC plus a lot of little hits to kill you quickly. But it doesn't always work against skilled players and it doesn't work in games. > > > > > * Holo dishes out great damage and can still survive a licking, which some certainly would see as a problem. But folks always see problems. Too much damage? That's a problem. Too little damage? That's a problem. Too many condis? That's a problem. Too many bruisers? That's a problem. There's no panacea for balance, and Holo sits pretty well in the meta right now. It has counters and it counters certain classes. Seems fine to me right now. > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > it is possible to get 25 stacks of might on elixir build. holo can ez self stack 12-15 stacks of might. now imagine getting some dmg and hidden flask b pops with another 7 might. now ure at 19-22 stacks. convert a torment and we're at 22-25 stacks . mind u this is easely done without even trying on "META ELIXIR SD BUILD" > > > > > > > > so holo downing the heavy golem in 2 sec from a combo that can be done every 15 sec is not counted as 1 shot? i mean it uses 5-6 skills to pull this off but when u look at power mesmer using 5-6 skills pulling off the same thing in 1 sec thats considered 1 shot while holo is considered spike? > > > > in that case id rather fight a power mes any day since u know theres no dmg comming after his burst while holo is gonna keep nuking u after burst rotation is done > > > > > > > > also i play in plat 2-3 in EU when i can be asked to bother with ranked . this 1 spike burst is happening on meta elixir build in those divisions. why spec for offmeta 1 sec 1 shot build when normal meta build does the same thing in 2 secs ?? > > > > > > > > the problem with holo is it got too much of everything. /perma swiftness and vigor/easy acces to stab and quickness/sustain is easy 15k healing every 20 sec when counting HT and passives/enough dmg to down a max toughness, 21k hp golem in 2 secs from 1 rotation/the fact that they got 6 sec aoe stealth on 31 sec cd(closest we get to this is mesmer elite 5 sec stealth on 90 cd. thats 18 sec of engi stealth for mes 5 lol)/easy cc on short cd/mobility and superspeed to disengage/invul for those 'oh kitten' moments/constant output of 5-6 boons when fighting/being tanky on top of all this since demo amulet is bae... i mean i could go on but im sure u get the picture by now. > > > > > > > > sure stacked up to other pof specs it might not seem like much but as i already said. only classes holo feels weak to right now is wellplayed warriors and necros(corrupt boons) boonbeast is just stalemate.. > > > > and ive been playing only holo since pof released > > > > > > If you've only been playing Holo, then why are you trying to drag it down? I've historically called for Holo shaves, but real nerfs need to be done in conjunction with nerfing other specs, too. > > > > > > That's my point, it's not out of line with the meta. If you play one-shot holo, you're irrelevant, if you play Demolishers DPS (very different from one-shot) you're outclassed DPS wise by rev, if you play bunker conversion, you bring team utility, but are a worse bunker than a scrapper. > > > > > > Holo isn't out of line with anything that is currently played, so I can't agree with just about anything you're saying until PoF is toned down as a whole. Even then, HoT will need to be re-addressed, too. Everything is creeped to hell past core. > > > > > > PS: To your pic, it's not possible to sustain 25 stacks of might on that build. Maybe get there especially with leadership, but I don't particularly love HGH. Good call-out though. That build stacks might higher than the iron-blood builds I'm used to running. > > > > someone with actual logic and common sense. > > > > I'll like to see these Holo Build with 25 might stack In a video if possible showing everything they are running and how exactly they are getting "25" might stack. Not word by mouth and paper calculation half assed by eu players. Someone earlier said you can Use Exilir S for +2 might stacks without also saying you'll be useless to dps for 3 seconds by then you'll lose some of your stacks..... > > > > @"toxic.3648" Make a video if you can so i can see what exactly im doing wrong cause most amount of might stack im able to stack was 15 and that's with all my offensive elixirs being used + CornaBurst. I just need to see these viable 25 stack might builds on holo that are possibly being played all around ! > > > > here you can see a top holosmith popping his rotation and i think he reached 21 or 24 stacks of might > > edit, at 7:10 mark he kills a thief with corona burst, granting him the last of his 25 might stack (in a 1v2 btw) I'm surprised that you bothered to actually find this... You could just ignore "someone with actual logic and common sense" He also got hit by disenchanter twice btw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagrant.7206 Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 > @"zoopop.5630" said: > > @"Vagrant.7206" said: > > > @"Odik.4587" said: > > > > @"Vagrant.7206" said: > > > > > @"Odik.4587" said: > > > > > You contradicting himself in your own post about might stacks . Telling me a big no , exaggerations, and say yes to a Toxic guy... > > > > > https://imgur.com/a/Llvgbt5 > > > > > > > > What you said was not accurate. A holosmith by itself cannot generate 25 might without messing up its build in a substantial way. > > > > > > > > However, what @"toxic.3648" said **is** accurate, that if an enemy class outputs a bunch of agony or weakness, it can be converted into might with a conversion prot build that has [purity of purpose](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Purity_of_Purpose "purity of purpose"). This is **ONLY** when an enemy is planting these conditions on the conversion holo, and cannot consistently be done with any other enemy. > > > > > > > > So yeah, I am going to agree with Toxic -- he's right. However, you're complaining about things that you don't seem to understand, and couldn't explain to me in a way I could understand. > > > > > > What i dont understand ? Toxic explained what I complaint about : > > > >>the fact that holo can be tanky with demo amulet. have 10k+ healing every 20 sec + the passive heals from boonstacking, regen and heat therapy holo passive sustain is broken for what it does when u see the dmg it puts out without having to sacrifice dmg for healing. > > > >>not to mention a single cc photon forge burst rotation with static discharge is enough to kill mostly anything not running a real bunker build > > > >Valid complaints. I have nothing to argue against that. > > > You literally confirmed that himself that you CAN, YOU DID and you WERE oneshotted in that manner while arent speccing for it even > > > > You are misreading what both he and I said. :smile: What he described is not a oneshot build, but it is a spike build. > > > > > >Perhaps, but the setup is by no means a one-shot. I've had it happen to me too (and I've done it to others), but I couldn't describe it as a oneshot build. That was my complaint with @Odik.4587, because he's treating what's closer to backstab from thief to a oneshot build. > > > So far as Toxic said you dont need purity of purpose to reach 20+ mights > > > May bey you dont understand yourself about your own class/traits but when you leave forge you convert conditions into boons . I didnt fought conversion holo . They all had meta rifle photon wall,quickness elixir and invul elixir. > > > > So let me lay it out for you: > > > > * Corona Burst = 5 might > > * HGH + Elixir U = 2 might > > * HGH + Toss Elixir U = 2 might > > * HGH + Elixir S = 2 might > > * HGH + Toss Elixir S = 2 Might > > * Convert a stack of Agony from exiting PF = 3 Might > > * Convert a stack of Weakness from Exiting PF = 3 Might > > > > So even under a "perfect" scenario where an engineer uses all his elixirs and exits photon forge simultaneously while only converting weakness and agony (a rather ridiculous scenario), he can only reach 19 might without team buffs. Now if you include gear or extra agony and weakness applied, it *is* possible to reach 25 might under this ideal scenario. Sigil of Battle can add [5 might for weapon swapping](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sigil_of_Battle_(disambiguation) "5 might for weapon swapping"). And [Rune of Leadership](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rune_of_Leadership_(PvP) "Rune of Leadership") can convert another 3 conditions to boons -- but this requires the use of an elite to pull. > > > > So in other words, the hypothetical scenario looks something like this: > > > > * Engineer uses Corona Burst, busts out the 4 elixir skills (for some reason) -- +13 might > > * Enemy applies weakness + agony -> Engineer exits photon forge and Sigil of Battle procs -- +11 might **(Most don't run sigil of battle)** > > * Enemy reapplies weakness + agony -> Engineer hits Elite skill and Rune of Leadership (6) procs. -- +6 might -> capped might > > * OR Enemy reapplies weakness + agony and [Lesser Elixir C procs (due to damage)](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lesser_Elixir_C "Lesser Elixir C procs (due to damage)") -- +6 might -> capped might > > > > This scenario is so contrived that it's worthless to even point out, but I know you'll latch onto it anyway as proof. :smile: > > > > ----- > > > > Whereas if we look at a conversion build, it's really easy to see what's happening that you're complaining about: > > > > * HLA is up and Engi is converting conditions (1 per second) plus whatever other skills conversion holo is using to convert > > * Condi mirage is constantly reapplying agony+weakness, instead of waiting for HLA to go away. > > * Engineer stacks 25 might in a very short period thanks to [Purity of Purpose](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Purity_of_Purpose "Purity of Purpose"). > > > > Conversion holo is a build explicitly designed to counter condition builds -- it's so good at it that I have to talk about it [in my other thread about condis.](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/72346/a-discussion-about-condition-damage-and-cleansing-why-is-it-always-broken/p1 "in my other thread about condis.") So you are complaining about a build designed be the direct counter for what's meta for ~~mesmer~~ mirage. > > > > > @"toxic.3648" said: > > > > @"Vagrant.7206" said: > > > > > @"Odik.4587" said: > > > > > You contradicting himself in your own post about might stacks . Telling me a big no , exaggerations, and say yes to a Toxic guy... > > > > > https://imgur.com/a/Llvgbt5 > > > > > > > > What you said was not accurate. A holosmith by itself cannot generate 25 might without messing up its build in a substantial way. > > > > > > > > However, what @"toxic.3648" said **is** accurate, that if an enemy class outputs a bunch of agony or weakness, it can be converted into might with a conversion prot build that has [purity of purpose](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Purity_of_Purpose "purity of purpose"). This is **ONLY** when an enemy is planting these conditions on the conversion holo, and cannot consistently be done with any other enemy. In other words, if you fight a conversion holo without placing agony or weakness on them, you will not see 25 might, and will usually only see between 5-10 might. > > > > > > > > So yeah, I am going to agree with Toxic -- he's right. However, you're complaining about things that you don't seem to understand, and couldn't explain to me in a way I could understand. > > > > > > also seems to me u misunderstand what odik was trying to tell u when it came to holo being unfun since its class with zerk dmg, bunker sustain and cc + boonspam . its literally the same reasons he said why its unfun as i did .. ehm > > > > Well, if that's his main point, he has a weird way of arguing it. In which case... yeah, I agree it's unfun from that perspective. It's powercreeped to hell and back. But as far as other elite specs from PoF go, I still can't say it stands out in particular - it's on par with the other specs. > > > > So again, I go back to this point -- in absolute terms, yes, it's OP. But in relative terms, it's not. > > Btw You can't have HgH and purity of purpose together so how is someone converting condi into boons let alone might stacks? Good catch, I had a brain-fart there. So even with two grandmasters it would still be difficult to stack that much might. :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoopop.5630 Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 > @"Koen.1327" said: > > @"zoopop.5630" said: > > > @"Mbelch.9028" said: > > > > @"toxic.3648" said: > > > > > @"Mbelch.9028" said: > > > > > > @"Odik.4587" said: > > > > > > ...Snips... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm confused about your whole back and forth with @"Vagrant.7206" as the following set of statements are as close to "facts" as you get: > > > > > * It's not possible for the META builds to stack 25 stacks of might unless they get very lucky on a conversion build, and it's plain old not possible on its own in a rifle build. > > > > > * There's no such thing as a one-shot Holosmith build that is viable in any realm of high-level PvP. > > > > > * When debating what is or isn't "a one shot build" it's hard to lump engineer in with that. No one skill has one-shot people on engi since 100-nades. The build I think you dislike is a spike build that utilizes a lot of CC plus a lot of little hits to kill you quickly. But it doesn't always work against skilled players and it doesn't work in games. > > > > > * Holo dishes out great damage and can still survive a licking, which some certainly would see as a problem. But folks always see problems. Too much damage? That's a problem. Too little damage? That's a problem. Too many condis? That's a problem. Too many bruisers? That's a problem. There's no panacea for balance, and Holo sits pretty well in the meta right now. It has counters and it counters certain classes. Seems fine to me right now. > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > it is possible to get 25 stacks of might on elixir build. holo can ez self stack 12-15 stacks of might. now imagine getting some dmg and hidden flask b pops with another 7 might. now ure at 19-22 stacks. convert a torment and we're at 22-25 stacks . mind u this is easely done without even trying on "META ELIXIR SD BUILD" > > > > > > > > so holo downing the heavy golem in 2 sec from a combo that can be done every 15 sec is not counted as 1 shot? i mean it uses 5-6 skills to pull this off but when u look at power mesmer using 5-6 skills pulling off the same thing in 1 sec thats considered 1 shot while holo is considered spike? > > > > in that case id rather fight a power mes any day since u know theres no dmg comming after his burst while holo is gonna keep nuking u after burst rotation is done > > > > > > > > also i play in plat 2-3 in EU when i can be asked to bother with ranked . this 1 spike burst is happening on meta elixir build in those divisions. why spec for offmeta 1 sec 1 shot build when normal meta build does the same thing in 2 secs ?? > > > > > > > > the problem with holo is it got too much of everything. /perma swiftness and vigor/easy acces to stab and quickness/sustain is easy 15k healing every 20 sec when counting HT and passives/enough dmg to down a max toughness, 21k hp golem in 2 secs from 1 rotation/the fact that they got 6 sec aoe stealth on 31 sec cd(closest we get to this is mesmer elite 5 sec stealth on 90 cd. thats 18 sec of engi stealth for mes 5 lol)/easy cc on short cd/mobility and superspeed to disengage/invul for those 'oh kitten' moments/constant output of 5-6 boons when fighting/being tanky on top of all this since demo amulet is bae... i mean i could go on but im sure u get the picture by now. > > > > > > > > sure stacked up to other pof specs it might not seem like much but as i already said. only classes holo feels weak to right now is wellplayed warriors and necros(corrupt boons) boonbeast is just stalemate.. > > > > and ive been playing only holo since pof released > > > > > > If you've only been playing Holo, then why are you trying to drag it down? I've historically called for Holo shaves, but real nerfs need to be done in conjunction with nerfing other specs, too. > > > > > > That's my point, it's not out of line with the meta. If you play one-shot holo, you're irrelevant, if you play Demolishers DPS (very different from one-shot) you're outclassed DPS wise by rev, if you play bunker conversion, you bring team utility, but are a worse bunker than a scrapper. > > > > > > Holo isn't out of line with anything that is currently played, so I can't agree with just about anything you're saying until PoF is toned down as a whole. Even then, HoT will need to be re-addressed, too. Everything is creeped to hell past core. > > > > > > PS: To your pic, it's not possible to sustain 25 stacks of might on that build. Maybe get there especially with leadership, but I don't particularly love HGH. Good call-out though. That build stacks might higher than the iron-blood builds I'm used to running. > > > > someone with actual logic and common sense. > > > > I'll like to see these Holo Build with 25 might stack In a video if possible showing everything they are running and how exactly they are getting "25" might stack. Not word by mouth and paper calculation half assed by eu players. Someone earlier said you can Use Exilir S for +2 might stacks without also saying you'll be useless to dps for 3 seconds by then you'll lose some of your stacks..... > > > > @"toxic.3648" Make a video if you can so i can see what exactly im doing wrong cause most amount of might stack im able to stack was 15 and that's with all my offensive elixirs being used + CornaBurst. I just need to see these viable 25 stack might builds on holo that are possibly being played all around ! > > > > here you can see a top holosmith popping his rotation and i think he reached 21 or 24 stacks of might > > edit, at 7:10 mark he kills a thief with corona burst, granting him the last of his 25 might stack (in a 1v2 btw) Ty for the video. What's the exact build hes running? I notice he got the last stack from 19-25 with corona then Elixir X. I'm gonna assume he doesn't take HgH but takes Purity of purposes over it for the condi conversation to boons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toxic.3648 Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 > @"zoopop.5630" said: > Ty for the video. What's the exact build hes running? I notice he got the last stack from 19-25 with corona then Elixir X. I'm gonna assume he doesn't take HgH but takes Purity of purposes over it for the condi conversation to boons? dude watch the twitch clip and notice elixir U pop at 7.02 giving him 2 might. even better. look at elixir cooldowns. lets assume he is running purity of purpose on his elixir X build yea .... no Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koen.1327 Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 > @"zoopop.5630" said: > > @"Koen.1327" said: > > > @"zoopop.5630" said: > > > > @"Mbelch.9028" said: > > > > > @"toxic.3648" said: > > > > > > @"Mbelch.9028" said: > > > > > > > @"Odik.4587" said: > > > > > > > ...Snips... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm confused about your whole back and forth with @"Vagrant.7206" as the following set of statements are as close to "facts" as you get: > > > > > > * It's not possible for the META builds to stack 25 stacks of might unless they get very lucky on a conversion build, and it's plain old not possible on its own in a rifle build. > > > > > > * There's no such thing as a one-shot Holosmith build that is viable in any realm of high-level PvP. > > > > > > * When debating what is or isn't "a one shot build" it's hard to lump engineer in with that. No one skill has one-shot people on engi since 100-nades. The build I think you dislike is a spike build that utilizes a lot of CC plus a lot of little hits to kill you quickly. But it doesn't always work against skilled players and it doesn't work in games. > > > > > > * Holo dishes out great damage and can still survive a licking, which some certainly would see as a problem. But folks always see problems. Too much damage? That's a problem. Too little damage? That's a problem. Too many condis? That's a problem. Too many bruisers? That's a problem. There's no panacea for balance, and Holo sits pretty well in the meta right now. It has counters and it counters certain classes. Seems fine to me right now. > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > it is possible to get 25 stacks of might on elixir build. holo can ez self stack 12-15 stacks of might. now imagine getting some dmg and hidden flask b pops with another 7 might. now ure at 19-22 stacks. convert a torment and we're at 22-25 stacks . mind u this is easely done without even trying on "META ELIXIR SD BUILD" > > > > > > > > > > so holo downing the heavy golem in 2 sec from a combo that can be done every 15 sec is not counted as 1 shot? i mean it uses 5-6 skills to pull this off but when u look at power mesmer using 5-6 skills pulling off the same thing in 1 sec thats considered 1 shot while holo is considered spike? > > > > > in that case id rather fight a power mes any day since u know theres no dmg comming after his burst while holo is gonna keep nuking u after burst rotation is done > > > > > > > > > > also i play in plat 2-3 in EU when i can be asked to bother with ranked . this 1 spike burst is happening on meta elixir build in those divisions. why spec for offmeta 1 sec 1 shot build when normal meta build does the same thing in 2 secs ?? > > > > > > > > > > the problem with holo is it got too much of everything. /perma swiftness and vigor/easy acces to stab and quickness/sustain is easy 15k healing every 20 sec when counting HT and passives/enough dmg to down a max toughness, 21k hp golem in 2 secs from 1 rotation/the fact that they got 6 sec aoe stealth on 31 sec cd(closest we get to this is mesmer elite 5 sec stealth on 90 cd. thats 18 sec of engi stealth for mes 5 lol)/easy cc on short cd/mobility and superspeed to disengage/invul for those 'oh kitten' moments/constant output of 5-6 boons when fighting/being tanky on top of all this since demo amulet is bae... i mean i could go on but im sure u get the picture by now. > > > > > > > > > > sure stacked up to other pof specs it might not seem like much but as i already said. only classes holo feels weak to right now is wellplayed warriors and necros(corrupt boons) boonbeast is just stalemate.. > > > > > and ive been playing only holo since pof released > > > > > > > > If you've only been playing Holo, then why are you trying to drag it down? I've historically called for Holo shaves, but real nerfs need to be done in conjunction with nerfing other specs, too. > > > > > > > > That's my point, it's not out of line with the meta. If you play one-shot holo, you're irrelevant, if you play Demolishers DPS (very different from one-shot) you're outclassed DPS wise by rev, if you play bunker conversion, you bring team utility, but are a worse bunker than a scrapper. > > > > > > > > Holo isn't out of line with anything that is currently played, so I can't agree with just about anything you're saying until PoF is toned down as a whole. Even then, HoT will need to be re-addressed, too. Everything is creeped to hell past core. > > > > > > > > PS: To your pic, it's not possible to sustain 25 stacks of might on that build. Maybe get there especially with leadership, but I don't particularly love HGH. Good call-out though. That build stacks might higher than the iron-blood builds I'm used to running. > > > > > > someone with actual logic and common sense. > > > > > > I'll like to see these Holo Build with 25 might stack In a video if possible showing everything they are running and how exactly they are getting "25" might stack. Not word by mouth and paper calculation half assed by eu players. Someone earlier said you can Use Exilir S for +2 might stacks without also saying you'll be useless to dps for 3 seconds by then you'll lose some of your stacks..... > > > > > > @"toxic.3648" Make a video if you can so i can see what exactly im doing wrong cause most amount of might stack im able to stack was 15 and that's with all my offensive elixirs being used + CornaBurst. I just need to see these viable 25 stack might builds on holo that are possibly being played all around ! > > > > > > > > here you can see a top holosmith popping his rotation and i think he reached 21 or 24 stacks of might > > > > edit, at 7:10 mark he kills a thief with corona burst, granting him the last of his 25 might stack (in a 1v2 btw) > > Ty for the video. What's the exact build hes running? I notice he got the last stack from 19-25 with corona then Elixir X. I'm gonna assume he doesn't take HgH but takes Purity of purposes over it for the condi conversation to boons? he runs the standard exlir rifle on metabattle (its pretty much based on what HE uses btw), so hgh purity of purposes is not really popular on holosmith, maybe some protection holos still use it holosmith has 3 sources of condi to boon convertion: Transmute (2 condis, 60 sec cd, passive) Prismatic converter (1 or 2 condis depending on heat, 6 sec cd) leadership rune (3 condis, 45 sec cooldown) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoopop.5630 Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 > @"Koen.1327" said: > > @"zoopop.5630" said: > > > @"Koen.1327" said: > > > > @"zoopop.5630" said: > > > > > @"Mbelch.9028" said: > > > > > > @"toxic.3648" said: > > > > > > > @"Mbelch.9028" said: > > > > > > > > @"Odik.4587" said: > > > > > > > > ...Snips... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm confused about your whole back and forth with @"Vagrant.7206" as the following set of statements are as close to "facts" as you get: > > > > > > > * It's not possible for the META builds to stack 25 stacks of might unless they get very lucky on a conversion build, and it's plain old not possible on its own in a rifle build. > > > > > > > * There's no such thing as a one-shot Holosmith build that is viable in any realm of high-level PvP. > > > > > > > * When debating what is or isn't "a one shot build" it's hard to lump engineer in with that. No one skill has one-shot people on engi since 100-nades. The build I think you dislike is a spike build that utilizes a lot of CC plus a lot of little hits to kill you quickly. But it doesn't always work against skilled players and it doesn't work in games. > > > > > > > * Holo dishes out great damage and can still survive a licking, which some certainly would see as a problem. But folks always see problems. Too much damage? That's a problem. Too little damage? That's a problem. Too many condis? That's a problem. Too many bruisers? That's a problem. There's no panacea for balance, and Holo sits pretty well in the meta right now. It has counters and it counters certain classes. Seems fine to me right now. > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > it is possible to get 25 stacks of might on elixir build. holo can ez self stack 12-15 stacks of might. now imagine getting some dmg and hidden flask b pops with another 7 might. now ure at 19-22 stacks. convert a torment and we're at 22-25 stacks . mind u this is easely done without even trying on "META ELIXIR SD BUILD" > > > > > > > > > > > > so holo downing the heavy golem in 2 sec from a combo that can be done every 15 sec is not counted as 1 shot? i mean it uses 5-6 skills to pull this off but when u look at power mesmer using 5-6 skills pulling off the same thing in 1 sec thats considered 1 shot while holo is considered spike? > > > > > > in that case id rather fight a power mes any day since u know theres no dmg comming after his burst while holo is gonna keep nuking u after burst rotation is done > > > > > > > > > > > > also i play in plat 2-3 in EU when i can be asked to bother with ranked . this 1 spike burst is happening on meta elixir build in those divisions. why spec for offmeta 1 sec 1 shot build when normal meta build does the same thing in 2 secs ?? > > > > > > > > > > > > the problem with holo is it got too much of everything. /perma swiftness and vigor/easy acces to stab and quickness/sustain is easy 15k healing every 20 sec when counting HT and passives/enough dmg to down a max toughness, 21k hp golem in 2 secs from 1 rotation/the fact that they got 6 sec aoe stealth on 31 sec cd(closest we get to this is mesmer elite 5 sec stealth on 90 cd. thats 18 sec of engi stealth for mes 5 lol)/easy cc on short cd/mobility and superspeed to disengage/invul for those 'oh kitten' moments/constant output of 5-6 boons when fighting/being tanky on top of all this since demo amulet is bae... i mean i could go on but im sure u get the picture by now. > > > > > > > > > > > > sure stacked up to other pof specs it might not seem like much but as i already said. only classes holo feels weak to right now is wellplayed warriors and necros(corrupt boons) boonbeast is just stalemate.. > > > > > > and ive been playing only holo since pof released > > > > > > > > > > If you've only been playing Holo, then why are you trying to drag it down? I've historically called for Holo shaves, but real nerfs need to be done in conjunction with nerfing other specs, too. > > > > > > > > > > That's my point, it's not out of line with the meta. If you play one-shot holo, you're irrelevant, if you play Demolishers DPS (very different from one-shot) you're outclassed DPS wise by rev, if you play bunker conversion, you bring team utility, but are a worse bunker than a scrapper. > > > > > > > > > > Holo isn't out of line with anything that is currently played, so I can't agree with just about anything you're saying until PoF is toned down as a whole. Even then, HoT will need to be re-addressed, too. Everything is creeped to hell past core. > > > > > > > > > > PS: To your pic, it's not possible to sustain 25 stacks of might on that build. Maybe get there especially with leadership, but I don't particularly love HGH. Good call-out though. That build stacks might higher than the iron-blood builds I'm used to running. > > > > > > > > someone with actual logic and common sense. > > > > > > > > I'll like to see these Holo Build with 25 might stack In a video if possible showing everything they are running and how exactly they are getting "25" might stack. Not word by mouth and paper calculation half assed by eu players. Someone earlier said you can Use Exilir S for +2 might stacks without also saying you'll be useless to dps for 3 seconds by then you'll lose some of your stacks..... > > > > > > > > @"toxic.3648" Make a video if you can so i can see what exactly im doing wrong cause most amount of might stack im able to stack was 15 and that's with all my offensive elixirs being used + CornaBurst. I just need to see these viable 25 stack might builds on holo that are possibly being played all around ! > > > > > > > > > > > > here you can see a top holosmith popping his rotation and i think he reached 21 or 24 stacks of might > > > > > > edit, at 7:10 mark he kills a thief with corona burst, granting him the last of his 25 might stack (in a 1v2 btw) > > > > Ty for the video. What's the exact build hes running? I notice he got the last stack from 19-25 with corona then Elixir X. I'm gonna assume he doesn't take HgH but takes Purity of purposes over it for the condi conversation to boons? > > he runs the standard exlir rifle on metabattle (its pretty much based on what HE uses btw), so hgh > purity of purposes is not really popular on holosmith, maybe some protection holos still use it > > holosmith has 3 sources of condi to boon convertion: > Transmute (2 condis, 60 sec cd, passive) > Prismatic converter (1 or 2 condis depending on heat, 6 sec cd) > leadership rune (3 condis, 45 sec cooldown) that's right leadership rune. I haven't been running leadership but makes sense now. Thanks for the clear up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now