nosleepdemon.1368 Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 I said I wasn't going to do this. I sat there, slowly stewing in my chair, determined that I wouldn't complain about jump puzzles. Inspite of my love for them - I've got both of Moto's auras afterall, so I've cleared "jumping puzzle hell" 16 times over. But. BUT! As my kitten forsaken springer does its utmost to lob me off a cliff for the umpteenth time, I finally snapped. So here I am. Complaining. I happen to think Super Adventure Box Tribulation Mode is the single greatest level design feat in the history of MMOs, and some stupid, oversized bunny rabbit with a saddle finally broke me. So, what is it that I detest so much about these new "puzzles"? It's actually not the mounts, they just happen to be the focus of my ire after the simplistic beauty of HoT's multi-level gliding. The mounts are definitely clunky, aggravating and imprecise, but no, that's not why I'm so peeved. What really grinds my gears, is how lazily the "puzzles" are designed. Invisible walls abound, ledges that are mere pixels too high for my unmastered mounts are everywhere. Apparently viable alternative routes are deliberately blocked off midway, even though physically, there appear to be sizeable ledges to which you should be able to jump. Everywhere I am slapped in the face by some level designer going "ummm! You can't be here yet!". I am forced to use none of my cunning, none of my well honed platforming skills, because if I don't have The Mastery yet, or I am even slightly off the beaten path, there will be an invisible wall to slide me all the way back down. Nevertheless, this is progress. Mounts are here because reasons. Maps are 'uge! But not really, they are just upscaled to increase traversal time now that players can fire themselves across them like cannon balls. I just get the distinct feeling that things are only going to get worse from here on out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coulter.2315 Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 This is equivalent to, in HoT, trying a jumping puzzle which has a bouncing mushroom in it before training the mastery. Just get the mastery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manasa Devi.7958 Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 There's a mastery to get through invisible walls? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coulter.2315 Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 > @"Manasa Devi.7958" said: > There's a mastery to get through invisible walls? He is attempting to take a route he wasn't meant to purely because he lacks the mastery to take the way he should. You'll need to get used to invisible walls now that the bunny-roo and griffon are in the game, it is sad in a way and immersion breaking but will be used more and more from now on. The most offensive use in my opinion is the mastery point inside the Tomb of Primeval Kings, very clearly underneath a hole in the roof so I climbed the outside planning to run along the top and fall down to it - alas this was not the prescribed method so invisible walls were placed along the top. The bunny-roo and griffon will allow you to get around almost any interesting design constructed from now on so they will need to place barriers, I was very concerned before PoF that we would have access to flight but the bunny-roo is also very constraining on the devs without invisible walls. This is the new normal, get used to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manasa Devi.7958 Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 > @Coulter.2315 said: > > @"Manasa Devi.7958" said: > > There's a mastery to get through invisible walls? > > He is attempting to take a route he wasn't meant to purely because he lacks the mastery to take the way he should. You'll need to get used to invisible walls now that the bunny-roo and griffon are in the game, it is sad in a way and immersion breaking but will be used more and more from now on. The most offensive use in my opinion is the mastery point inside the Tomb of Primeval Kings, very clearly underneath a hole in the roof so I climbed the outside planning to run along the top and fall down to it - alas this was not the prescribed method so invisible walls were placed along the top. > > The bunny-roo and griffon will allow you to get around almost any interesting design constructed from now on so they will need to place barriers, I was very concerned before PoF that we would have access to flight but the bunny-roo is also very constraining on the devs without invisible walls. This is the new normal, get used to it. When I first get to a place, the game is not about taking the right route. It's about exploring. If I see a tall place, and a possible way up, I'm going to want to go there. There's no telling that you're not "meant to" until after you've tried, and that's often a galling waste of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coulter.2315 Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 > @"Manasa Devi.7958" said: > > @Coulter.2315 said: > > > @"Manasa Devi.7958" said: > > > There's a mastery to get through invisible walls? > > > > He is attempting to take a route he wasn't meant to purely because he lacks the mastery to take the way he should. You'll need to get used to invisible walls now that the bunny-roo and griffon are in the game, it is sad in a way and immersion breaking but will be used more and more from now on. The most offensive use in my opinion is the mastery point inside the Tomb of Primeval Kings, very clearly underneath a hole in the roof so I climbed the outside planning to run along the top and fall down to it - alas this was not the prescribed method so invisible walls were placed along the top. > > > > The bunny-roo and griffon will allow you to get around almost any interesting design constructed from now on so they will need to place barriers, I was very concerned before PoF that we would have access to flight but the bunny-roo is also very constraining on the devs without invisible walls. This is the new normal, get used to it. > > When I first get to a place, the game is not about taking the right route. It's about exploring. If I see a tall place, and a possible way up, I'm going to want to go there. There's no telling that you're not "meant to" until after you've tried, and that's often a galling waste of time. This was always a risk with verticle boosts under control of the player, remember the designers want to lay out a path for you and want you to discover the way - your exploration will always need hobbled to give the full experience the game makers wanted you to have (this won't occur everywhere but there will be points the designers want you to experience in a specific way, a puzzle being one of them). Imagine they made a hedgemaze for you but you use the bunny-roo just to jump over it, this is awful, so it is necessary to stop you doing that so you enjoy the maze. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manasa Devi.7958 Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 You make it sound as if this is something inevitable. But here's a weird idea: how about they design the graphical aspect of their maps to be in tune with the pathing aspect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coulter.2315 Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 > @"Manasa Devi.7958" said: > You make it sound as if this is something inevitable. But here's a weird idea: how about they design the graphical aspect of their maps to be in tune with the pathing aspect? They try and succeed for the most part but expecting 100% coverage is unrealistic and they also have requirements of art and beauty - forcing them to dump extremely high, vertical and detailless walls everywhere would be awful. Remember any detail with collision is a trap that could undermine the design, so you need to make a choice between detail and "do I make this extremely bland just incase someone extremely determined wants to spam jump against this wall for 15mins?" These choices will always spawn issues like the one you describe, you will not always be pleased but that is life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manasa Devi.7958 Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 > @Coulter.2315 said: > > @"Manasa Devi.7958" said: > > You make it sound as if this is something inevitable. But here's a weird idea: how about they design the graphical aspect of their maps to be in tune with the pathing aspect? > > They try and succeed for the most part but expecting 100% coverage is unrealistic and they also have requirements of art and beauty - forcing them to dump extremely high, vertical and detailless walls everywhere would be awful. Remember any detail with collision is a trap that could undermine the design, so you need to make a choice between detail and "do I make this extremely bland just incase someone extremely determined wants to spam jump against this wall for 15mins?" > > These choices will always spawn issues like the one you describe, you will not always be pleased but that is life. Issues like that only happen when designers bite off more than they can chew. And it's not always a matter of people brute forcing their bunny jumps for 15 minutes in the hopes that one of the landings will stick. There are plenty of situations where there are extremely obvious visual paths where you can make a few jumps to get almost all the way to the top, in like 15 seconds instead of minutes, but bump into an invisible wall at the very top. If that's the way it has to be, why don't they put the invisible wall at the start of the disallowed route, so people don't bang their heads against this failing design? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nosleepdemon.1368 Posted October 4, 2017 Author Share Posted October 4, 2017 What's annoying is that aside from obvious places that you shouldn't get to before you have a certain mount, I don't understand why the level designers saw fit to enforce their One True Path so brutally. What almighty cheat does the player perform by getting a mastery point a little sooner, since the story vomits them out anyway? Besides which, in some cases, I was able to find an even cheekier route, so the only effect was one of severe aggravation. Also, if we could *not* have mounts with a quarter mile turning circle and a very sudden acceleration, that'd be greeeat. "But they're mounts! They should *feel* real!" - granted. However Arena Net have quite literally designed at least one for the sole purpose of jumping... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stalkingwolf.6035 Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 and there are a lot of walls you can jump in but not out. Desolation East is very buggy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nosleepdemon.1368 Posted October 4, 2017 Author Share Posted October 4, 2017 > @Stalkingwolf.6035 said: > and there are a lot of walls you can jump in but not out. Desolation East is very buggy I got jammed between two stoney outcrops in the Brand, mountless. Jump! "You have no room to mount." Bzzzzt! ... Jump! Jump! "You have n~" Bzzzzzzzzt! ... Jump! Bzzzzzt! ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coulter.2315 Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 > @"Manasa Devi.7958" said: >There are plenty of situations where there are extremely obvious visual paths where you can make a few jumps to get almost all the way to the top, in like 15 seconds instead of minutes, but bump into an invisible wall at the very top. Oh your complaint is you lost 15secs of your life? Give me a moment, I'm sure my violin is somewhere.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nosleepdemon.1368 Posted October 4, 2017 Author Share Posted October 4, 2017 > @Coulter.2315 said: > > @"Manasa Devi.7958" said: > >There are plenty of situations where there are extremely obvious visual paths where you can make a few jumps to get almost all the way to the top, in like 15 seconds instead of minutes, but bump into an invisible wall at the very top. > > Oh your complaint is you lost 15secs of your life? Give me a moment, I'm sure my violin is somewhere.. > Reread what they said, it's not the time wasted, it's how obvious the artificial arrangement of the puzzles is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoSundown.5419 Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 There are some alternate routes. I spent over two hours trying to get to the Hero Challenge on the Tetrahedron. I got high enough at one point that the Springer discorporated on hitting the ground. I got high enough another time to glide down to the HC ... and while gliding, I saw the no-mount-needed path... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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