Dyfinz.2348 Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 I believe with some buffing to renegade, such as a lower CD for the heal, or a boost to reduce condi damage like 75% (the bonus of the heal), and make auto attack(of the short bow) instant cast like thief dagger can change the game without a total rework of 3 classes. Perhaps people who wish to enjoy renegade as something other than a free 5 points for the other team can help kill the currently two most contested classes in regards to nerf or not nerf. Kill, 3 birds with one stone. Let me be honest...you scored huge with Mesmer..and you made another new awesome class (Revenant)..don't kill it......reveal it Now...I really did not think about how to improve it...it is just a bunch random suggestions. I have been told don't point out a problem without offering a solution, but I must say it does seem those suggestions can go unnoticed for a while. You know I think this is your sculpture, and I won't be allowed to carve it for you but....... Hey, Ms. Renegade designer, let us seem some flex. Please folks....the ones smarter than me(most if not all)...make some better suggestions...but if the other two have a real (HARD) counter...they can stay strong too! Thank you all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razor.6392 Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 Yes yes more power creep!!!!! Then we buff soulbeast to keep renegade in check, then we buff mirage to keep soulbeast in check, then we buff firebrand to buff people so they can survive, then we buff holosmith so they can actually penetrate the hardcore bunkering, then we buff weaver... jk we dont buff those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dyfinz.2348 Posted October 7, 2017 Author Share Posted October 7, 2017 > @Razor.6392 said: > Yes yes more power creep!!!!! Then we buff soulbeast to keep renegade in check, then we buff mirage to keep soulbeast in check, then we buff firebrand to buff people so they can survive, then we buff holosmith so they can actually penetrate the hardcore bunkering, then we buff weaver... jk we dont buff those. Do you think Renegade is viable? Will you please share your build? I guess it is a big secret.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
synergy.5809 Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 > @Dyfinz.2348 said: > > @Razor.6392 said: > > Yes yes more power creep!!!!! Then we buff soulbeast to keep renegade in check, then we buff mirage to keep soulbeast in check, then we buff firebrand to buff people so they can survive, then we buff holosmith so they can actually penetrate the hardcore bunkering, then we buff weaver... jk we dont buff those. > > Do you think Renegade is viable? Will you please share your build? I guess it is a big secret.... not sure where you got that from his post. hes just saying power creep is bad for this game as HoT has shown. they should tone everything down instead of throwing damage / condis at them to try and fix the problems Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dyfinz.2348 Posted October 7, 2017 Author Share Posted October 7, 2017 > @synergy.5809 said: > > @Dyfinz.2348 said: > > > @Razor.6392 said: > > > Yes yes more power creep!!!!! Then we buff soulbeast to keep renegade in check, then we buff mirage to keep soulbeast in check, then we buff firebrand to buff people so they can survive, then we buff holosmith so they can actually penetrate the hardcore bunkering, then we buff weaver... jk we dont buff those. > > > > Do you think Renegade is viable? Will you please share your build? I guess it is a big secret.... > > not sure where you got that from his post. hes just saying power creep is bad for this game as HoT has shown. they should tone everything down instead of throwing damage / condis at them to try and fix the problems I not asking about power creep.... This is not about those problems. Can you offer a build? That would shut this thread down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dyfinz.2348 Posted October 7, 2017 Author Share Posted October 7, 2017 To clarify, I would like to see Revenant be the counter for the Scourge and/or Spell breaker. I am not a theory crafter...but I am not seeing a lot of the Renegade.. and I myself have tried it...but fail to see something viable...help...please don't reignite old complaints on this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaboBabo.3581 Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 > @Dyfinz.2348 said: > To clarify, > > I would like to see Revenant be the counter for the Scourge and/or Spell breaker. > > I am not a theory crafter...but I am not seeing a lot of the Renegade.. and I myself have tried it...but fail to see something viable...help...please don't reignite old complaints on this thread. The Problem is ur Headliner "...Then we don't need to nerf scourge and spellbreaker". We allready have Scourge and Spellbreaker counters. Ppl are just unskilled and arrogant, that's it. Take helseth for example. World's champion BEST MESMER ever super mega insane Player. Walks into a scourge and uses every condi cleanse he has avaible when he has 0 conditions on him. Scourge kills him with conditions, and Helseth implifies Scourge is OP. -> https://clips.twitch.tv/RockyVivaciousSnakeDxAbomb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dyfinz.2348 Posted October 7, 2017 Author Share Posted October 7, 2017 > @FaboBabo.3581 said: > > @Dyfinz.2348 said: > > To clarify, > > > > I would like to see Revenant be the counter for the Scourge and/or Spell breaker. > > > > I am not a theory crafter...but I am not seeing a lot of the Renegade.. and I myself have tried it...but fail to see something viable...help...please don't reignite old complaints on this thread. > > The Problem is ur Headliner "...Then we don't need to nerf scourge and spellbreaker". We allready have Scourge and Spellbreaker counters. Ppl are just unskilled and arrogant, that's it. > > Take helseth for example. World's champion BEST MESMER ever super mega insane Player. > > Walks into a scourge and uses every condi cleanse he has avaible when he has 0 conditions on him. > Scourge kills him with conditions, and Helseth implifies Scourge is OP. > -> https://clips.twitch.tv/RockyVivaciousSnakeDxAbomb I can respect your ideas, please though, share them. What counters do we have to scourge and spell breaker? I can understand if you don't want to retype it, please just provide a link to the thread that you explain with the details of what to do against these two classes (also I hope it has the solution for when they stack). If not, offer a suggestion for the Renegade, why is the community so dead set on derailing this topic? I am asking for suggestions on how to improve playing renegade, or a renegade buff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArthurDent.9538 Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 I have no clue how to make renegade able to counter scourge and spellbreaker other than tweaking the damage coefficients so that it does absurd damage and as a result just counters everything. The spec is just completely dysfunctional in pvp game modes in so many ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exciton.8942 Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 > @FaboBabo.3581 said: > > @Dyfinz.2348 said: > > To clarify, > > > > I would like to see Revenant be the counter for the Scourge and/or Spell breaker. > > > > I am not a theory crafter...but I am not seeing a lot of the Renegade.. and I myself have tried it...but fail to see something viable...help...please don't reignite old complaints on this thread. > > The Problem is ur Headliner "...Then we don't need to nerf scourge and spellbreaker". We allready have Scourge and Spellbreaker counters. Ppl are just unskilled and arrogant, that's it. > > Take helseth for example. World's champion BEST MESMER ever super mega insane Player. > > Walks into a scourge and uses every condi cleanse he has avaible when he has 0 conditions on him. > Scourge kills him with conditions, and Helseth implifies Scourge is OP. > -> https://clips.twitch.tv/RockyVivaciousSnakeDxAbomb LOL, go check out phantaram and Sind's stream. Both of them had similar moment of being loaded by 20+ torment in a matter of seconds. All these players are obviously too arrogent to learn to counter play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euthymias.7984 Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 Not sure about Scourge, but a power Revenant can manage to 1v1 a Spellbreaker since attacks like Unrelenting Assault and Surge of the Mists wont let you be hit by Full Counter. That said, Renegade/SB needs to be straight up reworked on some traits to even manage to be pvp viable, and I question whether the Devs want to go that far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Ketsu.4569 Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 The main problem with Renegade is the new profession mechanic skills are mostly useless. The cooldown buff means very little since Rev skills already have very low cooldown. As Rev our resource is energy, not CDs, so it's a mechanic that is counter intuitive to how the class is supposed to work. Compared to what other professions got Citadel orders are an absolute joke. The fact that these trash abilities cost so much on top of being trash is the punchline. Vs Herald which gives tons of boons for free when proced why would anyone use this new trait. Something that would make way more sense considering Renegade is supposed to be a condi spec is to give one of the three order abilities some form of condi cleanse. Then at least it could be a counter pick to scourge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troops.8276 Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 Maybe they could get an aoe condi corrupt. So scourge spreads condis and corrupts then renegade turns them into boons and then sb strips them. It would be a tug of war/roundabout. Also, as things are all relative would nerfing one thing not be much the same as buffing everything else. "In the land of the blind the one eyed man is King" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shala.8352 Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 > @Euthymias.7984 said: > Not sure about Scourge, but a power Revenant can manage to 1v1 a Spellbreaker since attacks like Unrelenting Assault and Surge of the Mists wont let you be hit by Full Counter. > That said, Renegade/SB needs to be straight up reworked on some traits to even manage to be pvp viable, and I question whether the Devs want to go that far. yes, power rev is a good counter to spellbreaker, since many revenant skill are telegraphic and easy to weapon fold, in fact revenant has not many immediate skill except Surge of the mist, wich is nerfed to the ground in a way that it is just a knocback. I have killed many spellbreaker in 1v1, only because i just stop when full counter activate. But this doesnt mean revenant is a counter to spellbreaker in team fights, also i noticed that sometimes Full counter hits me during my evade frames, like the unblockable effect goes through revenants evade frames. Back in topic, renegade should not be buffed to the point of beeing a counter to scourge/spellbreaker, renegade should be buffed just because at the moment is USELESS. Bow skills are all very technical and hard to land, and even when they land they dont do enough damage. Also renegade survivability is no exsistent. And dont even let me start with renegade legend skills... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dyfinz.2348 Posted October 7, 2017 Author Share Posted October 7, 2017 I have some **SUGGESTIONS** for the Legendary Renegade Skills. Increase the casting range to 900 for all of them. Breakrazor's Bastion - I can see that it has potential, but the rest of the bar needs work for it to be effective. Razorclaw's Rage - Give a bump to the bleeding...perhaps double the base bleed, and lower the pulses to 6 Icerazors's Ire - Instead of applying cripple, apply chill instead - to compensate increase recharge and lower hit count...I know that chill can apply torment and in turn apply poison....that would be OP....but chill would make more sense with the name and have better synergy with revenant traits...not just one sigil. Darkrazor's Daring - Increase cooldown, and lower the pulses, but make the attack unblockable. Soulcleave's Summit - I can see how this can be OP if buffed, but Ill ask for a buff anyway, make the cast time 1/4 s. For the Shortbow, I believe some kinda bonus on critical would be nice (with its own cooldown - perhaps the can be built into the traits) Shorbow skill five, blind on successful knockdown. The renegade trait line seems to want to split between condi and power with crits , but I think it needs some tuning, or we may be spreading our peanut butter too thin. Please keyboard warriors and caffeinated fellow players under stress from the real world...realize that all of these are **SUGGESTIONS** Please if you wish modify my suggestions to be better, preferably in a non-condescending way....one that will enrich this thread. Ill edit the title if that helps calm people down. Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
messiah.1908 Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 renegade design for group play and not 1v1. so attacking any class in 1v1 should puts you in disadvantage position. in group play it should shine more and have good potential to bring all builds diversity (power, condi, support) i dont want to buff the renegade rather nerf other strong classes. but sb needs a buff nevertheless: increase bleed duration on AA to 5 sec base. bloodbane path need direct dmf buff 25% sevenshot needs to spread arrows and not focus 7 arrows at one spot. so each arrow hits with 7 torment spirit crush - why the slow i really dont know. i would go with confusion. and direct dmg increase by 25% scorchrazor increase burning duration to 4 sec base. and direct dmg increase by 100%. also three skills should be 100% projectile finisher. we lack swiftness and evade with this weapon so this is the reason for buff . or you could give sevenshot evade 1 sec and swiftness for 10 sec (like ranger sb) f2-f4 - team support remove casting time reduce nrg by 30% to all F skills f4 add 1 condition cleanse to allies each pulse - team support with alacrity and cleanse 4-6 condition each second. f1 also aoe stun break - should i save it for stunbreak of the buff my team with 5-10 might stacks utilities warbands needs to get stability procing for 1 sec every 1 sec. more hp so its hard to kill them razarclaw - also increase direct dmg by 10%, bleeding duration base at 4 sec. (even in pvp 5 team had hard time to reach 50 stacks) icerazor - should proc ice field (like the elite burn field). this can combo nice with projectile finisher and corruption to proc torment. soulcleave - reduce nrg to -7 traits: all for one - also proc protection on yourself for 4 sec (so if you range the warband you still got 4 sec and if you cast it on yourself you get 8 sec). also warband skills cleasne 1 condition off you. wrought iron will - duration increase for regen and retal to 5 sec. vindication should be 4 sec base might duration and not 3. this changes i think wont be huge buff but will give renegade the ability to handle himself and be team player who buff the team or puts conditions or support depends on his build. and without boons from the herald. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miles Smiles.8951 Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 It shouldn't be buffed. It should be redesigned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exedore.6320 Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 Revenant doesn't work without Glint. Until you re-design the whole profession, Renegade will be useless or extremely OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buran.3796 Posted October 8, 2017 Share Posted October 8, 2017 > @Dyfinz.2348 said: > I believe with some buffing to renegade, such as a lower CD for the heal, or a boost to reduce condi damage like 75% (the bonus of the heal), and make auto attack(of the short bow) instant cast like thief dagger can change the game without a total rework of 3 classes. Won't work. The short bow lacks mobility/defense so you are forced to use mace + axe and staff so pretty much is the same condi build which currently is weaker than Herald AND you should use Mallyx + Shiro (Kalla is useless for PvP, as the F keys) which is weaker than Mallyx + Glint. You can ask for a buff in core condi Rev or condi Herald, but the Renegade won't work in PvP or roaming, ever. Renegade is a PvE raid + PvNothing spec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bezerker.2379 Posted October 8, 2017 Share Posted October 8, 2017 > @Dyfinz.2348 said: > > @synergy.5809 said: > > > @Dyfinz.2348 said: > > > > @Razor.6392 said: > > > > Yes yes more power creep!!!!! Then we buff soulbeast to keep renegade in check, then we buff mirage to keep soulbeast in check, then we buff firebrand to buff people so they can survive, then we buff holosmith so they can actually penetrate the hardcore bunkering, then we buff weaver... jk we dont buff those. > > > > > > Do you think Renegade is viable? Will you please share your build? I guess it is a big secret.... > > > > not sure where you got that from his post. hes just saying power creep is bad for this game as HoT has shown. they should tone everything down instead of throwing damage / condis at them to try and fix the problems > > I not asking about power creep.... > > This is not about those problems. > > Can you offer a build? That would shut this thread down. > He is arguing that if we nerf everyone else, renegade will not be unviable. I guess if nobody does damage, our summons wont be knocked down. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exciton.8942 Posted October 8, 2017 Share Posted October 8, 2017 The whole mechanics of renegade is essentially spirit ranger. I never remember spirit ranger was viable with stationary spirits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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