TheoryCraft What Ranger build would Counter Scourge in sPvP?

[EnderzShadow.2506]

> @Aomine.5012 said:

> > @Zenith.7301 said:

> > > @LughLongArm.5460 said:

> > > Druid can kill scourge, but not on point.

> >

> > No different from spellbreaker or any dangerous melee opponent.

>

> Druid don't have the dps to kill Spellbreaker 1 on 1 unless that spellbreaker is extremely bad.

>

> I tried Spellbreaker a few days ago and reach platinum division 2, and I have yet to see any good ranger that stand a chance.

> They're like free kills to me cuz their pets screw them over. If they run Druid, they don't hurt me at all, if they run Soulbeast they can't kill me either, and they get revenge killed quite easily. Unlike fighting other Spellbreaker/ Firebrand which I may not kill them at all, or fighting Holosmith which has the potential to CC chain spike down me , or playing against good Scourge which knows how to dodge and counter Full Counter and screw me over, Druid/ Soulbeast is never a threat, and often feels like free kill and non-existence point defender. They often get decapped so fast that they might as well not exist at all.

>

> This is the state of ranger atm.

 

 

Congrats on the bandwagon, trader. I didn't ask for the state of ranger. There is enough whining on the other threads, that's not what this thread is about.

Are you going to share a build?

 

I can stand toe to toe with spellbreaker and a +1 long enough to waste your time and give reprieve to the rest of my team.

I don't need to kill you. Plat 2? I thought you would of understood conquest is not dueling.

 

Oh whats that you went to mid?

I just stealthed past you and decapped far, again.

 

[DerJoker.9081]

Im still running Shoutbow Berzerker Druid with Trooper Runes and that works fairly well.

 

Kite them, make use of ancient seeds and go in and out of Celestial Avatar to remove condis. Shouts remove condis as well and the only weapon that will consistently hit you is staff marks, when you are not at maximum range.

 

When they get closer knockback or stealth (so many opportunities with Celestial Shadow and Smokescale) and kite again....

 

It wont work on point, but what class will at the moment... -.-

Any other situation, +1 ing, etc works great.

[Sol.4310]

> @Eurantien.4632 said:

> @Sol.4310

>

> Hunter's Shot while melded should give you swiftness, even if you don't hit anything.

 

Nice, is it a bug or just how things are.

[Sol.4310]

> @Aomine.5012 said:

> > @Sol.4310 said:

> > > @Khenzy.9348 said:

> > > It's Spellbreakers you need to worry about, not Scourges. You counter Scourges with Ancient Seeds and a longbow.

> > >

> > > Spellbreaker is the greatest counter this profession has ever faced. Unless they get some serious nerfs, good luck.

> >

> > Only class that can effectively beat a Spellbroken is Scourge, kinda funny. Nothing else really stands a chance.

>

> Firebrand is even more tanky than Spellbreaker btw.

>

> Try fighting against a good one, or a pair of them working in duo que, they're unkillable unless your team have 2 Scourges.

 

That's why you take, Unstoppable Union and Sic'Em or am I the only Soulbeast using Sic'Em? The only viable utilities for Soulbeast burst build, are Quickening Zephyr, "Sick 'Em!" and Lightning Reflexes. Hopefully people start catching on and make the shift.

[Eurantien.4632]

@Sol.4310

 

I know the swiftness applies to the pet even if you hit nothing, it's always been this way. I'm assuming the same would happen when melded.

[Pvt Frosty.6973]

> @Eurantien.4632 said:

> @Sol.4310

>

> I know the swiftness applies to the pet even if you hit nothing, it's always been this way. I'm assuming the same would happen when melded.

 

it does and is not a bug either, though its nothing to really write home about

[Sol.4310]

> @Eurantien.4632 said:

> @Sol.4310

>

> I know the swiftness applies to the pet even if you hit nothing, it's always been this way. I'm assuming the same would happen when melded.

 

Funny, as this is first time I've needed out of combat swiftness and never noticed or bothered to even check. Solved that problem are fast, Eura Soulbeast is solid are you planning to give the new Xpac a run? if ya do make sure to use Sic'Em without that Soulbeast isn't much different to Druid.

[Eurantien.4632]

> @Sol.4310 said:

> > @Eurantien.4632 said:

> > @Sol.4310

> >

> > I know the swiftness applies to the pet even if you hit nothing, it's always been this way. I'm assuming the same would happen when melded.

>

> Funny, as this is first time I've needed out of combat swiftness and never noticed or bothered to even check. Solved that problem are fast, Eura Soulbeast is solid are you planning to give the new Xpac a run? if ya do make sure to use Sic'Em without that Soulbeast isn't much different to Druid.

 

Next chance I get to play will be August but I definitely will. I've personally never loved druid, so I'll be going hard into finding a soulbeast build that works for me.

[EnderzShadow.2506]

> @Eurantien.4632 said:

> > @Sol.4310 said:

> > > @Eurantien.4632 said:

> > > @Sol.4310

> > >

> > > I know the swiftness applies to the pet even if you hit nothing, it's always been this way. I'm assuming the same would happen when melded.

> >

> > Funny, as this is first time I've needed out of combat swiftness and never noticed or bothered to even check. Solved that problem are fast, Eura Soulbeast is solid are you planning to give the new Xpac a run? if ya do make sure to use Sic'Em without that Soulbeast isn't much different to Druid.

>

> Next chance I get to play will be August ...

 

You mean next year.

almost a full year from now :0

[Lazze.9870]

> @Khenzy.9348 said:

> It's Spellbreakers you need to worry about, not Scourges. You counter Scourges with Ancient Seeds and a longbow.

>

> Spellbreaker is the greatest counter this profession has ever faced. Unless they get some serious nerfs, good luck.

 

Depends. I've had great success dueling a fair few on a full melee ranger. But obviously that build isn't generaly optimal for conqeust at "higher levels". And ye, it's dueling.

[Malafaia.8903]

> @Lazze.9870 said:

> > @Khenzy.9348 said:

> > It's Spellbreakers you need to worry about, not Scourges. You counter Scourges with Ancient Seeds and a longbow.

> >

> > Spellbreaker is the greatest counter this profession has ever faced. Unless they get some serious nerfs, good luck.

>

> Depends. I've had great success dueling a fair few on a full melee ranger. But obviously that build isn't generaly optimal for conqeust at "higher levels". And ye, it's dueling.

 

I'm playing as a power druid, LB/GS and i don't even bother swapping to GS when fighting Spellbreakers.

Daze from glyph? Nop. Interrupt from GS5? Nop. Interrupt from pet? Nop. Burst dmg? Nop.

The window in wich Spellbreakers are "hitable" is just to short to kill them with burst damage. Of course you can do it, but only when your enemy skills would make it possible, independently of wich class he's playing.

[Sol.4310]

> @Eurantien.4632 said:

> > @Sol.4310 said:

> > > @Eurantien.4632 said:

> > > @Sol.4310

> > >

> > > I know the swiftness applies to the pet even if you hit nothing, it's always been this way. I'm assuming the same would happen when melded.

> >

> > Funny, as this is first time I've needed out of combat swiftness and never noticed or bothered to even check. Solved that problem are fast, Eura Soulbeast is solid are you planning to give the new Xpac a run? if ya do make sure to use Sic'Em without that Soulbeast isn't much different to Druid.

>

> Next chance I get to play will be August but I definitely will. I've personally never loved druid, so I'll be going hard into finding a soulbeast build that works for me.

 

Are you sure you mean August? or does time slow down where you work? anyways you will like Soulbeast. There is lot of hate like always and lots of stupids, but it's more or less WS/SB and pick a line, I switch between NM and BM marauders and menders. I do like one of the new pet's, Jacaranda. It has nice 25% to outgoing healing, with menders makes your healing rather interesting to say the least.

 

Cya when you get back.

[Eurantien.4632]

> @Sol.4310 said:

> > @Eurantien.4632 said:

> > > @Sol.4310 said:

> > > > @Eurantien.4632 said:

> > > > @Sol.4310

> > > >

> > > > I know the swiftness applies to the pet even if you hit nothing, it's always been this way. I'm assuming the same would happen when melded.

> > >

> > > Funny, as this is first time I've needed out of combat swiftness and never noticed or bothered to even check. Solved that problem are fast, Eura Soulbeast is solid are you planning to give the new Xpac a run? if ya do make sure to use Sic'Em without that Soulbeast isn't much different to Druid.

> >

> > Next chance I get to play will be August but I definitely will. I've personally never loved druid, so I'll be going hard into finding a soulbeast build that works for me.

>

> Are you sure you mean August? or does time slow down where you work? anyways you will like Soulbeast. There is lot of hate like always and lots of stupids, but it's more or less WS/SB and pick a line, I switch between NM and BM marauders and menders. I do like one of the new pet's, Jacaranda. It has nice 25% to outgoing healing, with menders makes your healing rather interesting to say the least.

>

> Cya when you get back.

 

Yes, I do mean August haha. It will be interesting to see what you all come up with using the new amulets that are coming soon, like Marshall.

[GodSpeedFist.8642]

from what I've been experiencing I have a fighting chance against a scourge w/ bunker druid ... soul beast & vanilla ranger for me is having a hard time w/ the condi's especially when they mark you down... either you just run or have a teammate help you deal w/ scourge.

[Lazze.9870]

> @Malafaia.8903 said:

> > @Lazze.9870 said:

> > > @Khenzy.9348 said:

> > > It's Spellbreakers you need to worry about, not Scourges. You counter Scourges with Ancient Seeds and a longbow.

> > >

> > > Spellbreaker is the greatest counter this profession has ever faced. Unless they get some serious nerfs, good luck.

> >

> > Depends. I've had great success dueling a fair few on a full melee ranger. But obviously that build isn't generaly optimal for conqeust at "higher levels". And ye, it's dueling.

>

> I'm playing as a power druid, LB/GS and i don't even bother swapping to GS when fighting Spellbreakers.

> Daze from glyph? Nop. Interrupt from GS5? Nop. Interrupt from pet? Nop. Burst dmg? Nop.

> The window in wich Spellbreakers are "hitable" is just to short to kill them with burst damage. Of course you can do it, but only when your enemy skills would make it possible, independently of wich class he's playing.

 

Just because it is a full melee build doesn't mean I did the majority of the damage against a *spellbreaker* using hilt bash and maul bursts. It's a GS/S&WH build, running WS/NM/BM. Unblockable pet attacks with WH5, abusing quickness and superspeed pet swap. You have to dance around them and make them waste cooldowns. And don't waste your own evades while at it.

Your power druid build is hardly comparable.

[ZhouX.8742]

With scourge stop thinking of a "build" to counter scourges. You counter scourges with positioning and range. It's the only way you can win as a ranger against them. There's not a build you can come up with to face tank them on the point, you will die easily.

 

So you're asking to beat scourge? druid longbow and stay > 800 range, the only reliable way to kill scourge at this moment in time as a ranger class... You won't beat them as a soulbeast unless , again, you keep your distance and utilize longbow.

 

I'm referring to good scourges though. Bait trails of anguish , use ancient seeds and LB 4 are your friends coupled with pet CC.

[EnderzShadow.2506]

:o > @ZhouX.8742 said:

> With scourge stop thinking of a "build" to counter scourges. You counter scourges with positioning and range. It's the only way you can win as a ranger against them. There's not a build you can come up with to face tank them on the point, you will die easily.

>

> So you're asking to beat scourge? druid longbow and stay > 800 range, the only reliable way to kill scourge at this moment in time as a ranger class... You won't beat them as a soulbeast unless , again, you keep your distance and utilize longbow.

>

> I'm referring to good scourges though. Bait trails of anguish , use ancient seeds and LB 4 are your friends coupled with pet CC.

 

I made this post, because Scourge is such a strong spec, it's important to make some changes to what we run as meta. If you don't make some changes to deal with the condis that come from that class, you'll get rekt.

 

"Keep them at range"--of course. It won't always work. Every fight isn't a static 4v4 midfight.

 

Staff Menders won't kill a Necro.

Lb Menders, eh that's not doing it either. And at some point a scourge is going to drop some condi on you.

 

I made the thread to get the Good Rangers opinion on

-Optimizing a build to counter scourges

-Being Viable outside of that fight.

[Aomine.5012]

> @Zenith.7301 said:

> > @LughLongArm.5460 said:

> > Druid can kill scourge, but not on point.

>

> No different from spellbreaker or any dangerous melee opponent.

 

Except ranger/ druid CAN'T kill Spellbreaker whatsoever in 1 on 1 , no matter which build you use, unless that Spellbreaker is terrible.

 

[HeadCrowned.6834]

Just LB/Staff druid is enough to win vs scourge, but a good scourge won't really 1v1 you then. Theres not really a need to build for countering scourge.

[Sol.4310]

> @Eurantien.4632 said:

> > @Sol.4310 said:

> > > @Eurantien.4632 said:

> > > > @Sol.4310 said:

> > > > > @Eurantien.4632 said:

> > > > > @Sol.4310

> > > > >

> > > > > I know the swiftness applies to the pet even if you hit nothing, it's always been this way. I'm assuming the same would happen when melded.

> > > >

> > > > Funny, as this is first time I've needed out of combat swiftness and never noticed or bothered to even check. Solved that problem are fast, Eura Soulbeast is solid are you planning to give the new Xpac a run? if ya do make sure to use Sic'Em without that Soulbeast isn't much different to Druid.

> > >

> > > Next chance I get to play will be August but I definitely will. I've personally never loved druid, so I'll be going hard into finding a soulbeast build that works for me.

> >

> > Are you sure you mean August? or does time slow down where you work? anyways you will like Soulbeast. There is lot of hate like always and lots of stupids, but it's more or less WS/SB and pick a line, I switch between NM and BM marauders and menders. I do like one of the new pet's, Jacaranda. It has nice 25% to outgoing healing, with menders makes your healing rather interesting to say the least.

> >

> > Cya when you get back.

>

> Yes, I do mean August haha. It will be interesting to see what you all come up with using the new amulets that are coming soon, like Marshall.

 

So next year August? if that is the case might have next xpac out by then.

[EnderzShadow.2506]

> @HeadCrowned.6834 said:

> Just LB/Staff druid is enough to win vs scourge, but a good scourge won't really 1v1 you then. Theres not really a need to build for countering scourge.

 

I don't follow your logic.

 

But I get 1v1's with scourge.

 

Regardless, it's good to take them out of a fight because they will f your team up.

 

You think they just sit at mid all day?

[EnderzShadow.2506]

> @Sol.4310 said:

> @EnderzShadow.2506

> My current build [soulbeast](http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQJATRnEqAlsgtCCusAUtglJBLv3+bLuNBgGwEwZyVByclI95A-jpBHQBi7IAwwLAQ52fAAHCg6VGggPAAA "Soulbeast")

> This build eats Necros alive, the damage is just too much. I've been dueling with it and I'm finding it too easy now.

>

> At first I was worried cause of the Runes and Amulet I was running wouldn't cut it, but the synergy between the traits and pets turned out to have a great balance and allowed me to sustain damage from different classes not just necro condition burst while still dealing decent pressure and burst damage myself. The only complaint I have is I have no swiftness, so being mobile is a pain all I have is my Quickness and Leap, which some what does the job.

>

> When I first used the Runes I was worried, they look garbage. But the synergy it has with Companion's Defense, Rugged Growth and Second Skin turned out to be really good. I get around 3000+ heal per dodge roll and Second Skin tones damage down big time. I was training in 1v1 and I was mitigating the damage so much just with dodge roll I didn't need to heal as often. Add in Evasive Purity and it's just icing on the cake.

>

> Then you have Spiritual Reprieve as your team support skill, which does 6k+ heal and resistance and your elite removes 2 conditions.

>

> I do understand Necro has fair bit of boon hate, but most of time your going to have protection up. As your at range, and cause you have Sic'Em your able to melt the necro so fast with your burst combo, and control the fight from range. You can't with any class hold the point with a necro on top of it so doesn't matter if you lose cap, so just kill the necro and try to regain the point.

>

> Well that's my current build and feedback, I've tried many versions of the build and so far this one has proven solid vs current meta. I can't really beat good Warriors, they just have to much sustain, but I can decap the point and hold until backup comes to finish him off. Sometimes burst classes can be rough if I'm not on my game but its more of skill thing, knowing your counters and controlling them.

 

 

Am I missing something, how do you get 3k heals for dodging?

[Sol.4310]

> @EnderzShadow.2506 said:

> > @Sol.4310 said:

> > @EnderzShadow.2506

> > My current build [soulbeast](http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQJATRnEqAlsgtCCusAUtglJBLv3+bLuNBgGwEwZyVByclI95A-jpBHQBi7IAwwLAQ52fAAHCg6VGggPAAA "Soulbeast")

> > This build eats Necros alive, the damage is just too much. I've been dueling with it and I'm finding it too easy now.

> >

> > At first I was worried cause of the Runes and Amulet I was running wouldn't cut it, but the synergy between the traits and pets turned out to have a great balance and allowed me to sustain damage from different classes not just necro condition burst while still dealing decent pressure and burst damage myself. The only complaint I have is I have no swiftness, so being mobile is a pain all I have is my Quickness and Leap, which some what does the job.

> >

> > When I first used the Runes I was worried, they look garbage. But the synergy it has with Companion's Defense, Rugged Growth and Second Skin turned out to be really good. I get around 3000+ heal per dodge roll and Second Skin tones damage down big time. I was training in 1v1 and I was mitigating the damage so much just with dodge roll I didn't need to heal as often. Add in Evasive Purity and it's just icing on the cake.

> >

> > Then you have Spiritual Reprieve as your team support skill, which does 6k+ heal and resistance and your elite removes 2 conditions.

> >

> > I do understand Necro has fair bit of boon hate, but most of time your going to have protection up. As your at range, and cause you have Sic'Em your able to melt the necro so fast with your burst combo, and control the fight from range. You can't with any class hold the point with a necro on top of it so doesn't matter if you lose cap, so just kill the necro and try to regain the point.

> >

> > Well that's my current build and feedback, I've tried many versions of the build and so far this one has proven solid vs current meta. I can't really beat good Warriors, they just have to much sustain, but I can decap the point and hold until backup comes to finish him off. Sometimes burst classes can be rough if I'm not on my game but its more of skill thing, knowing your counters and controlling them.

>

>

> Am I missing something, how do you get 3k heals for dodging?

 

Sorry, it was based on Companion's Defense, which I figured people would get what I meant by per dodge roll. You get it to around 743 per second on Protection, also regeneration ticks for 376 per second and trolls 1533 per second. In total, you heal 2652 per second while Trolls is up. You can heal teammates 8250 with Spiritual Reprieve and it gives Resistances as well.

 

Just a Menders Soulbeast build I've been working on for side points. It's ok in team fights but built for small scale fights. Won't beat a Spellbreaker but it won't be able to kill you.

[jcbroe.4329]

So yeah, PvP balance is ALL out of whack right now, with it basically being a 3 optimal class metagame right now.

 

But yeah, as others have said, you just have to out position the Scourge. They lose roughly half their damage if they can't keep you close enough to them, so you have to just ranged poke them, which is why LB keeps getting suggested.

 

With 2 out of 3 of the meta PoF classes being classes you can't sit on point with and the 3rd being a support class you'll only stalemate on bunker Druid, playing Staff/LB and using positioning and rotations seems like the best way to go until a balance patch reigns in some of the silliness.