power creep fix - remove ferocity, make crits do double damage as base line

[Stand The Wall.6987]

> @"Thorstienn.1642" said:

> Why ferocity? Why not nerf crit chance? The only way to get 100% crit chance should involve every trait, armor piece, fury, all external factors (banners etc), utilities (talking "activate" sigil), plus food and enhancement (so impossible in PvP?). So now you would actually have to build to a "perfect" balance.

 

that might work.

[SeikeNz.3526]

why remove ferocity if they can just cap it at 200% so you still need to build stats?

[Dante.1508]

Just go back to the original release gear exotics.. raise their stats to ascended and make them all craftable ... power creep gone.

[ugrakarma.9416]

instead of meddling with ferocity, do like neverwinter and introduce some "absortion" status thats works a sponge against criticals and (non existent in gw2) "penetration".

[sephiroth.4217]

I only get one shot when wearing gear without Toughness or if my mount is one shot.. maybe try adding toughness stat to your build OP? If you already have some, add more ?

[Stand The Wall.6987]

> @"sephiroth.4217" said:

> I only get one shot when wearing gear without Toughness or if my mount is one shot.. maybe try adding toughness stat to your build OP? If you already have some, add more ?

 

plenty of bursts / common skills eat through toughness like butter. thus the nerf to over performing power builds.

[sephiroth.4217]

> @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> > @"sephiroth.4217" said:

> > I only get one shot when wearing gear without Toughness or if my mount is one shot.. maybe try adding toughness stat to your build OP? If you already have some, add more ?

>

> plenty of bursts / common skills eat through toughness like butter. thus the nerf to over performing power builds.

 

"Bursts" and "skills" is plural which means it's not a one shot.

 

I thought you were having issues with being one shot as per the OP which is why I suggested Toughness but Toughness could probably help you here too if the fights are ending too quick for you.

 

Edit: I just realized you have brought up 2 seperate complaints. You're complaints about power creep in general... I agree. Its the main reason I enjoyed bruiser builds and DD Tempest until the mount introduction which rendered that style absolete. So my builds now are either full glass or full tank. Full glass meaning I accept being 1 shot and full tank meaning that I accept that I cant kill anything on my own but know full well I can handle multiple high burst classes and couldn't be one shot.

[Arzurag.7506]

> @"FrigginPaco.4178" said:

> > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> > > @"FrigginPaco.4178" said:

> > > A better solution would be to have toughness reduce incoming crit damage by a certain amount for each 100 toughness beyond the bass 1000 that you get at level 80. This achieves both your original idea of removing power creep a bit and also elevating the toughness stat to be more important in every game mode. If you really wanted you could also have it reduced incoming condition damaged by the same amount.

> >

> > sounds like a good solution at first, but how much would toughness reduce crit damage? 25% at +1k toughness? combined with the natural damage reduction of armor that would add up to a ton of damage reduction. add another 1k toughness and its a pseudo invuln lol.

>

> Well remember two important things:

>

> 1. I was just giving a very basic formula that could be iterated upon to make it less oppressive than our current hypothetical. It just serves to get the idea out there. Someone else better suited at measuring damage metrics at Anet would find a better number, most likely anyhow. I'm just a guy on a forum!

> 2. By "beyond" the standard 1k just means that there's no change to it when no additional toughness has been added. Essentially, my proposed beneficial effects of toughness would only take place after investing in it. All it would be is something like … 200% crit - 15% toughness crit reduction = 175% effective crit before damage reduction from armor.

>

> I would definitely never suggest anything so oppressive as a way to get to full mitigation. Unfortunately that may mean a cap is necessary. Even still, if the numbers are appropriate, all it might mean is that if someone has Ferocity as main stat fighting someone with Toughness as a main stat, it would just get back down to 150% critical damage by the end of it. Again, I don't have a way to back this up beyond my hypothetical, but it could be a good way to support toughness. At the end of the day it doesn't even need to be massive, even 15% crit damage reduction as an active part of your stat selection can be a good boost.

>

> [Also, back to the Condition Damage reduction Toughness could give, that would be very small per 100 Toughness... like 1.2% or some number, but still significant in the face of condi pressure. I don't have a way to gauge the right number I'm just trying to communicate the concept]

 

Your concept could be expanded by adding diminishing returns.

The more are amor you get, the lower is its effectiveness.

League of Legends uses such system, where armor drops in value, if you have huge amounts of it.

[Glider.5792]

Step 1:

Reduce the amount of power Might gives. Currently at lvl 80 each stack gives 30 power and condition damage, for a total of 750, which is IMO waay too much. It seems to almost double your damage if you're at 25 stacks, which is broken. Should be reduced by idk.. 50% ? Thats still 375 of each stat, which is still alot.

 

Step 2:

???? Idk, nerf the quickness uptime a bit i guess, same with alacrity. Whats the point of these op boons if we can have them on litteraly all the time. Might aswell just make them baseline then. Make boons actualy be "short time buffs/advantage", not just a possible permanent bonus.

[Astralporing.1957]

I like how OP says he's going to fix the power creep, then gives a suggestion that is something completely separate to power creep (hint: the effects of ferocity are now in fact even lower than the original critical damage in core gw2 of old was).

 

No, you don't fix something (assuming it even needs fixed), by changing something completely unrelated.

[Metasynaptic.1093]

I would be fine with more power creep tbh. Somewhere there's a complaint that power creep is bad. I don't agree.

[Antycypator.9874]

Cap Ferocity (critical strike damage) at 150%, base fero should be at 100%.

Cap Critical strike chance at 50%.

Fury can give only 10% crit chance or be completly reworked to give only ferocity.

 

Unfortunately some classes would suffer, e.g. dagger thief. It's strenght comes with stealth attacks (+ critical strikes), without it, power thief would become complete garbage.

[Etterwyn.5263]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> Why would this have any impact on power creep?

 

He wants a hard cap on critical damage. But that won't fix power creep. Probably make it worse depending on what players choose for the 3d stat.

[EmmetOtter.8542]

You guys are really blowing this way out of proportion.

 

Other games keep upping the max level or releasing new tiers of gear and the power creep is palpable. GW2's "Power creep" from game balancing barely qualifies as that. Players demand it! They want buffs and tunings! They cry incessantly when their main's are nerfed ("you should just buff everyone else!"). They complain when their favorite prof/build isn't buffed in balancing passes ("the dev's hate us, they don't play _InsertProfessionHere_ ever!"). Anet gave you what you asked for and its not overdone.

 

You might make a more intelligent sounding argument by focusing on elite specs and mastery skills. Even there its a questionable argument.

 

Frankly, end game characters should become stronger and stronger over time. That is a natural progression that must exist as part of game play. My first visit to Orr in 2013 I was getting my teeth kicked in by everything. For many reasons I decided the game just wasn't for me back in 2013. 6 years later, I've played several other MMO's and gave GW2 another shot and now my original character has a much easier time in Orr. Some of that is from the profession changes (elite specs and other things), but mostly its from from knowing how to properly gear and play.

[derd.6413]

better solution: delete combat

[Stand The Wall.6987]

> @"Glider.5792" said:

> Step 1:

> Reduce the amount of power Might gives. Currently at lvl 80 each stack gives 30 power and condition damage, for a total of 750, which is IMO waay too much. It seems to almost double your damage if you're at 25 stacks, which is broken. Should be reduced by idk.. 50% ? Thats still 375 of each stat, which is still alot.

>

> Step 2:

> ???? Idk, nerf the quickness uptime a bit i guess, same with alacrity. Whats the point of these op boons if we can have them on litteraly all the time. Might aswell just make them baseline then. Make boons actualy be "short time buffs/advantage", not just a possible permanent bonus.

 

ye, good suggestions.

[FrigginPaco.4178]

> @"Arzurag.7506" said:

> > @"FrigginPaco.4178" said:

> > > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> > > > @"FrigginPaco.4178" said:

> > > > A better solution would be to have toughness reduce incoming crit damage by a certain amount for each 100 toughness beyond the bass 1000 that you get at level 80. This achieves both your original idea of removing power creep a bit and also elevating the toughness stat to be more important in every game mode. If you really wanted you could also have it reduced incoming condition damaged by the same amount.

> > >

> > > sounds like a good solution at first, but how much would toughness reduce crit damage? 25% at +1k toughness? combined with the natural damage reduction of armor that would add up to a ton of damage reduction. add another 1k toughness and its a pseudo invuln lol.

> >

> > Well remember two important things:

> >

> > 1. I was just giving a very basic formula that could be iterated upon to make it less oppressive than our current hypothetical. It just serves to get the idea out there. Someone else better suited at measuring damage metrics at Anet would find a better number, most likely anyhow. I'm just a guy on a forum!

> > 2. By "beyond" the standard 1k just means that there's no change to it when no additional toughness has been added. Essentially, my proposed beneficial effects of toughness would only take place after investing in it. All it would be is something like … 200% crit - 15% toughness crit reduction = 175% effective crit before damage reduction from armor.

> >

> > I would definitely never suggest anything so oppressive as a way to get to full mitigation. Unfortunately that may mean a cap is necessary. Even still, if the numbers are appropriate, all it might mean is that if someone has Ferocity as main stat fighting someone with Toughness as a main stat, it would just get back down to 150% critical damage by the end of it. Again, I don't have a way to back this up beyond my hypothetical, but it could be a good way to support toughness. At the end of the day it doesn't even need to be massive, even 15% crit damage reduction as an active part of your stat selection can be a good boost.

> >

> > [Also, back to the Condition Damage reduction Toughness could give, that would be very small per 100 Toughness... like 1.2% or some number, but still significant in the face of condi pressure. I don't have a way to gauge the right number I'm just trying to communicate the concept]

>

> Your concept could be expanded by adding diminishing returns.

> The more are amor you get, the lower is its effectiveness.

> League of Legends uses such system, where armor drops in value, if you have huge amounts of it.

 

Yeah, that might be a good idea. Though that could also encourage to just parse out the "optimal" range and stop before DR. Although, it probably would still be more significant if it were a main stat.

 

Now, if the Critical Multiplier/Condition Damage Negation that I was talking about were the only thing hit with DR, that could be the useful part. Armor as it stands is still quite useful, and is supposed to be the way to deal with bursty and/or sustained power attacks and weak to condi that bypasses armor/toughness. I would have liked to see something in the vicinity of this suggestion take effect as a test. I feel like the concept is a strong candidate for healthy gear stat balance and a way to promote variety in gearing and builds.

[FrigginPaco.4178]

It occurs to me, a number of other possibilities exist:

 

1. ~~A stacking buff comparable to the opposite of Vulnerability could be something, though it may have half the effectiveness. Lets just call it "Fortification" for now. For each stack of this buff, gain .5% damage reduction, to a maximum stack of 20 or something.~~ (Numbers not final). This way, it can be ripped or converted if necessary, or swapped around via Mesmer nonsense (still keeping a weary eye on Mesmer nonsense :P). What I MEANT to say, was stacking intensity of Protection. I know prot has some modifiers in game already, both doing similar things to reduce condi pressure on SB and augmented effectiveness on Tempest (I think). But I feel like the flat 33% is... difficult to gauge how effective that can be in some circumstances. For some game content it's relatively insignificant, and sometimes it's so necessary in order to surviving something as well.

2. Another popular change is to halve the potency of vulnerability and double its maximum stacks. It caps out at 25 super easily and frankly, I don't see the harm.