DPS meter policy needs to be revised

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

> @Kheldorn.5123 said:

> > @TheRandomGuy.7246 said:

> > > @Panda.1967 said:

> > > > @TheRandomGuy.7246 said:

> > > > But what will you do about people who can estimate your contribution by looking at your rotation and buff panel. Aka the majority of players that care enough to use dps meter.

> > >

> > > Wow... that is the biggest piece of misinformation I have ever seen... it's so wrong it's laughable. The number of people who can estimate someone's contribution by looking at their buffs and observing the attacks they can see, are far from a majority... they are as far from a majority as you can possibly even get. We're talking less than 1% of 1% here.

> >

> > You don't need to be a minmax elitist to see wrong status effects and wrong or missing buffs on people. Or to see PS warrior spinning with double axe and then swap to rifle.

>

> All of these are in game functions provided and supported by developer. ArcDPS is 3rd party tool.

 

Fun fact though Combat Meters are approved for use by the Devs and the game, with one of them helping to ensure Combat Meters meet the approved parameters set forth by Anet, soo yeah there is that, and the reason behind Anet not having their own Combat Meter is they think they can better use their resources elsewhere while th community handles the Combat Meters.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

> @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

> > @Kheldorn.5123 said:

> > > @TheRandomGuy.7246 said:

> > > > @Panda.1967 said:

> > > > > @TheRandomGuy.7246 said:

> > > > > But what will you do about people who can estimate your contribution by looking at your rotation and buff panel. Aka the majority of players that care enough to use dps meter.

> > > >

> > > > Wow... that is the biggest piece of misinformation I have ever seen... it's so wrong it's laughable. The number of people who can estimate someone's contribution by looking at their buffs and observing the attacks they can see, are far from a majority... they are as far from a majority as you can possibly even get. We're talking less than 1% of 1% here.

> > >

> > > You don't need to be a minmax elitist to see wrong status effects and wrong or missing buffs on people. Or to see PS warrior spinning with double axe and then swap to rifle.

> >

> > All of these are in game functions provided and supported by developer. ArcDPS is 3rd party tool.

>

> Fun fact though Cobat Meters are approved for use by the Devs and the game, with one of them helping to ensure Combat Meters meet the approved parameters set forth by Anet, soo yeah there is that, and the reason behind Anet not having their own Combat Meter is they think they can better use their resources elsewhere while th community handles the Combat Meters.

 

And yet Anet takes no responsibility for damage caused by such tools. I do not trust its developer and other players, I don't know what other data than my dps numbers are being transfered through game memory to their clients.

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

> @Kheldorn.5123 said:

> > @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

> > > @Kheldorn.5123 said:

> > > > @TheRandomGuy.7246 said:

> > > > > @Panda.1967 said:

> > > > > > @TheRandomGuy.7246 said:

> > > > > > But what will you do about people who can estimate your contribution by looking at your rotation and buff panel. Aka the majority of players that care enough to use dps meter.

> > > > >

> > > > > Wow... that is the biggest piece of misinformation I have ever seen... it's so wrong it's laughable. The number of people who can estimate someone's contribution by looking at their buffs and observing the attacks they can see, are far from a majority... they are as far from a majority as you can possibly even get. We're talking less than 1% of 1% here.

> > > >

> > > > You don't need to be a minmax elitist to see wrong status effects and wrong or missing buffs on people. Or to see PS warrior spinning with double axe and then swap to rifle.

> > >

> > > All of these are in game functions provided and supported by developer. ArcDPS is 3rd party tool.

> >

> > Fun fact though Cobat Meters are approved for use by the Devs and the game, with one of them helping to ensure Combat Meters meet the approved parameters set forth by Anet, soo yeah there is that, and the reason behind Anet not having their own Combat Meter is they think they can better use their resources elsewhere while th community handles the Combat Meters.

>

> And yet Anet takes no responsibility for damage caused by such tools. I do not trust its developer and other players, I don't know what other data than my dps numbers are being transfered through game memory to their clients.

 

Again a Dev goes through the Combat Meters to ensure the only do what Anet approves for them to see and that is only Combat Data, remember Combat Data isn’t owned by anyone, so no privacy invasion or spying happening.

 

We all saw what happens when Combat Meters don’t meet Anets approved parameters, they get banned and so do players using those meters after the banning and information of the ban are released.

[TexZero.7910]

> @Kheldorn.5123 said:

> And yet Anet takes no responsibility for damage caused by such tools. I do not trust its developer and other players, I don't know what other data than my dps numbers are being transfered through game memory to their clients.

 

Pretty sure if you reported someone for verbal abuse with enough proof, something would be done.

 

Unfortunately what we have here is a conjecture with wildly unsubstantiated claims of what could be instead of Facts.

[Mara.6782]

Guildwars 2 has become Numberwars 2. People only look numbers was it about builds or dpsmeter. Always looking how much one class can do damage and if its not enough that class is worthless. This happen every time there is a nerf. Even if after that nerf that class still deal enough damage to kill stuff but just not enough to be "meta".

Is it fun playing game and only care about numbers just play for fun. I know its frustrated when someone is not doing much damage but in raids you should have enough people to kill boss in time. When i play a game i dont care how fast i can beat it i care how fun it is. Doing something in a hurry is not fun. Dps meter and meta make people toxic.

[TexZero.7910]

> @Mara.6782 said:

> Guildwars 2 has become Numberwars 2. People only look numbers was it about builds or dpsmeter. Always looking how much one class can do damage and if its not enough that class is worthless. This happen every time there is a nerf. Even if after that nerf that class still deal enough damage to kill stuff but just not enough to be "meta".

> Is it fun playing game and only care about numbers just play for fun. I know its frustrated when someone is not doing much damage but in raids you should have enough people to kill boss in time. When i play a game i dont care how fast i can beat it i care how fun it is. Doing something in a hurry is not fun. Dps meter and meta make people toxic.

 

You're confusing the issue.

 

People want to be efficient in raids not because big numbers are fun to see but because the quicker you kill it the less chances you have at failing. To this end, people come up with meta comps that deal with the fight the quickest and most efficient ways possible. This doesn't mean the game is numberwars as you the player have the choice to either acquiesce to it or form your own non-meta comps.

 

At the end of the day this is the real opt-in system people keep forgetting to use.

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

> @Mara.6782 said:

> Guildwars 2 has become Numberwars 2. People only look numbers was it about builds or dpsmeter. Always looking how much one class can do damage and if its not enough that class is worthless. This happen every time there is a nerf. Even if after that nerf that class still deal enough damage to kill stuff but just not enough to be "meta".

> Is it fun playing game and only care about numbers just play for fun. I know its frustrated when someone is not doing much damage but in raids you should have enough people to kill boss in time. When i play a game i dont care how fast i can beat it i care how fun it is. Doing something in a hurry is not fun. Dps meter and meta make people toxic.

 

 

No toxic people are Toxic, Combat meters are just a tool.

 

If Combat Meters were what caused people to be Toxic and caused Meta to happen then there would have never been any toxicity or Metas before Combat Meters were allowed, but History Shows us Toxicity and Meta existed long before and it was all Arbitrarily based.

 

[Javelin.7960]

> @TexZero.7910 said:

> > @Kheldorn.5123 said:

> > And yet Anet takes no responsibility for damage caused by such tools. I do not trust its developer and other players, I don't know what other data than my dps numbers are being transfered through game memory to their clients.

>

> Pretty sure if you reported someone for verbal abuse with enough proof, something would be done.

>

> Unfortunately what we have here is a conjecture with wildly unsubstantiated claims of what could be instead of Facts.

 

What we have here is a worldwide hay shortage due to all the strawmen constructed by the pro-meter side of this discussion. I don't think a single person has addressed the substance of the OPs suggestion from the opposing side. It's bizarre at this point, almost like a group of people desperately trying to avoid talking about an elephant standing in the middle of the room.

 

If you'd like to be the first one to take a crack at it, I'll start you off:

 

"I know you don't want to ban DPS meters, and your solution would seem to make both sides of the issue happy, but here's why you're wrong: ......"

[Yakubyogami.7586]

TL:DR; short story is this - DPS meters do not list group support and do not list survivability. I have played MMOs since 1999 and never have I see a DPS meter provide an overall positive result to any MMO, ever.

 

DPS meters are the Ferrari of the MMO world: people focus on how fast you can go and not handling, braking or fuel consumption.

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

> @Yakubyogami.7586 said:

> TL:DR; short story is this - DPS meters do not list group support and do not list survivability. I have played MMOs since 1999 and never have I see a DPS meter provide an overall positive result to any MMO, ever.

>

> DPS meters are the Ferrari of the MMO world: people focus on how fast you can go and not handling, braking or fuel consumption.

 

Except ArcDps( which is the only approved combat meter allowed in game) does list everything combat related rezzing, Boon uptime, healing, damage, who got hit by what mechanics, who succeeded in what mechanics, who failed mechanics even Skills used

[TexZero.7910]

> @Javelin.7960 said:

> If you'd like to be the first one to take a crack at it, I'll start you off:

> "I know you don't want to ban DPS meters, and your solution would seem to make both sides of the issue happy, but here's why you're wrong: ......"

 

I've already addressed why his premise is wrong. If you'd like to read it feel free as it's in this thread.

 

The whole notion is based around a faulty premise of an invasion of privacy, but no privacy is being violated as nothing from the user claiming it is being taken from them without their consent. Instead a system is estimating based on Time, Mob health, and Known Quantities.

 

TL;DR unless guess somehow became an invasion of your privacy then you have no complaint. If you have a complaint about guessing then you have other issues as the game as a whole has always had people make false assumptions. To which i'd ask would you rather arbitrary exclusion based on a non-factor like Class, AP, or Race or Proper performance based metrics to address problems that occur.

 

 

 

[Deihnyx.6318]

> @Panda.1967 said:

> > @VaaCrow.3076 said:

> > Have you considered that i don't care about someone being sensitive, or that someone has a "thin skin" or is easily offended, or if someone has issues etc. And i don't believe that everyone should be given respect just because they're a human being, respect is EARNED, not given. As for being positive, you do you.

> >

>

> Actually, respect is given, not earned. A little fact of reality. People who believe respect is earned, not given, expect others to respect them before they in turn respect others. That's a one-sided exchange, they expect others to GIVE them respect before they GIVE respect back. It is in fact given, not earned. I'm sure you've heard it said before as well "if you expect others to respect you, you must show them respect first". Yeah, it's given.

 

> @Javelin.7960 said:

> So it's a complete non-issue, for someone who's never experienced the issue. Got it.

 

Not saying it doesn't happen. But i've seen far more people lying about their experience and ending up being a waste of time for everyone than the other way around (exp going to noobs group just to troll them).

This alone isn't a justification for banning a tool.> @Rhanoa.3960 said:

> > @Fallesafe.5932 said:

> > **The only reason somebody would have an issue with this is if they wanted to hide their poor performance.**

> >

> > What you do when you join a group is the business of the whole group (since everyone's time and effort are involved). It's not a matter of "privacy" to go AFK and let everyone else do the work. It's not a matter of "privacy" to be ignorant of the fight mechanics. And it isn't a matter of privacy to do 1/4 of the damage you should be doing to pull your weight.

> >

> > DPS-meters only have value, as diagnostic tools, in context of the group. For example... I joined a T4, Thaumanova-Reactor group that was wiping over and over to Subject 6. The DPS-meter showed that everybody was doing less than 2500 dps (horrendous). So instead of wasting any more time, I wished everyone "good luck" and left. What good would it have done me to only know that my numbers were ok?

> >

> > We have every right to know when we're involved in hopeless groups. There's no "privacy" issue whatsoever. It's a red-herring. Your name, address, phone-number, etc... those are actual privacy issues.

>

> There is nothing clever about ASSUMING the worst about people!

>

> Many of us understand rotations, mechanics, and our profession. We simply do not **WANT YOU** to tell us how to play. Nor do we care about your numbers.

> Benchmark all you want it wasn't how the game was designed or intended.

> Keep it to yourself, I simply do not want to hear about **HOW EPIC** you are!

>

> **BAN DPS METERS** or **BAN THE PLAYERS** sharing it with others in game!

They can do it IN THEIR GROUP. This is what you are forgetting.

You want to ban people for setting their own rules in THEIR GROUP.

They bought the game too and they have as many rights as you have. The only difference is that, if you don't like the way they play, make your own group.

 

Talking about banning players who are using something that has been okayed by anet is ridiculous.

... And I'm not exactly a fan of dps meters in the first place.

[Javelin.7960]

> @TexZero.7910 said:

> > @Javelin.7960 said:

> > If you'd like to be the first one to take a crack at it, I'll start you off:

> > "I know you don't want to ban DPS meters, and your solution would seem to make both sides of the issue happy, but here's why you're wrong: ......"

>

> I've already addressed why his premise is wrong. If you'd like to read it feel free as it's in this thread.

>

> The whole notion is based around a faulty premise of an invasion of privacy, but no privacy is being violated as nothing from the user claiming it is being taken from them without their consent. Instead a system is estimating based on Time, Mob health, and Known Quantities.

>

> TL;DR unless guess somehow became an invasion of your privacy then you have no complaint. If you have a complaint about guessing then you have other issues as the game as a whole has always had people make false assumptions. To which i'd ask would you rather arbitrary exclusion based on a non-factor like Class, AP, or Race or Proper performance based metrics to address problems that occur.

>

 

What you addressed is a straw man, built to avoid addressing his actual premise. He wants a choice. A publicly visible choice. That's the premise. Privacy is not the premise, it's a rationale used to support it. For what it's worth, I disagree that this is a privacy issue, and said as much in my first post in the thread. Choice is the central premise, and it's not dependent upon privacy concerns. If you don't want to group with someone who chooses not to share DPS info, then don't. A choice, for both parties, instead of a choice for one, and no choice for the other. What do you find objectionable about that, as a concept?

[Rhanoa.3960]

> @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

> > @Mara.6782 said:

> > Guildwars 2 has become Numberwars 2. People only look numbers was it about builds or dpsmeter. Always looking how much one class can do damage and if its not enough that class is worthless. This happen every time there is a nerf. Even if after that nerf that class still deal enough damage to kill stuff but just not enough to be "meta".

> > Is it fun playing game and only care about numbers just play for fun. I know its frustrated when someone is not doing much damage but in raids you should have enough people to kill boss in time. When i play a game i dont care how fast i can beat it i care how fun it is. Doing something in a hurry is not fun. Dps meter and meta make people toxic.

>

>

> No toxic people are Toxic, Combat meters are just a tool.

>

> If Combat Meters were what caused people to be Toxic and caused Meta to happen then there would have never been any toxicity or Metas before Combat Meters were allowed, but History Shows us Toxicity and Meta existed long before and it was all Arbitrarily based.

>

 

Ya ya ya,..the toxicity plaguing both sides of the argument.

Frankly, it's still a pitiful claim for those pushing these Meta Builds and Meters.

 

I'm here to play a VIDEO GAME have FUN not to be measured even if it means ruining your game experience. As I am not the one creating or agree to these benchmarks, nor should anyone else be subjected to them.

 

This is not the NBA, NFL, or NHL DRAFT! I'm not here to perform for you.

[Deihnyx.6318]

> @Javelin.7960 said:

> > @TexZero.7910 said:

> > > @Kheldorn.5123 said:

> > > And yet Anet takes no responsibility for damage caused by such tools. I do not trust its developer and other players, I don't know what other data than my dps numbers are being transfered through game memory to their clients.

> >

> > Pretty sure if you reported someone for verbal abuse with enough proof, something would be done.

> >

> > Unfortunately what we have here is a conjecture with wildly unsubstantiated claims of what could be instead of Facts.

>

> What we have here is a worldwide hay shortage due to all the strawmen constructed by the pro-meter side of this discussion. I don't think a single person has addressed the substance of the OPs suggestion from the opposing side. It's bizarre at this point, almost like a group of people desperately trying to avoid talking about an elephant standing in the middle of the room.

>

> If you'd like to be the first one to take a crack at it, I'll start you off:

>

> "I know you don't want to ban DPS meters, and your solution would seem to make both sides of the issue happy, but here's why you're wrong: ......"

 

How do you call people who use the "it's a strawman argument" against every argument to silent them?

It's gonna be called something too.

 

Seriously, not everything here is a strawman, there are legit arguments from both sides.

 

People have a publicly visible choice: To join or not to join a group.

[Lanhelin.3480]

> @Kheldorn.5123 said:

> *snip*

I fully second this.

 

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

> @Rhanoa.3960 said:

> > @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

> > > @Mara.6782 said:

> > > Guildwars 2 has become Numberwars 2. People only look numbers was it about builds or dpsmeter. Always looking how much one class can do damage and if its not enough that class is worthless. This happen every time there is a nerf. Even if after that nerf that class still deal enough damage to kill stuff but just not enough to be "meta".

> > > Is it fun playing game and only care about numbers just play for fun. I know its frustrated when someone is not doing much damage but in raids you should have enough people to kill boss in time. When i play a game i dont care how fast i can beat it i care how fun it is. Doing something in a hurry is not fun. Dps meter and meta make people toxic.

> >

> >

> > No toxic people are Toxic, Combat meters are just a tool.

> >

> > If Combat Meters were what caused people to be Toxic and caused Meta to happen then there would have never been any toxicity or Metas before Combat Meters were allowed, but History Shows us Toxicity and Meta existed long before and it was all Arbitrarily based.

> >

>

> Ya ya ya,..the toxicity plaguing both sides of the argument.

> Frankly, it's still a pitiful claim for those pushing these Meta Builds and Meters.

>

> I'm here to play a VIDEO GAME have FUN not to be measured even if it means ruining your game experience. As I am not the one creating or agree to these benchmarks, nor should anyone else be subjected to them.

>

> This is not the NBA, NFL, or NHL DRAFT! I'm not here to perform for you.

 

And what pray tell entitles you to other player’s time? Oh right nothing.

 

And you have every means to avoid players using Combat Meters in a toxic manner. Oh who would have ever thought that such tools already existed in game.

[TexZero.7910]

> @Javelin.7960 said:

> > @TexZero.7910 said:

> > > @Javelin.7960 said:

> > > If you'd like to be the first one to take a crack at it, I'll start you off:

> > > "I know you don't want to ban DPS meters, and your solution would seem to make both sides of the issue happy, but here's why you're wrong: ......"

> >

> > I've already addressed why his premise is wrong. If you'd like to read it feel free as it's in this thread.

> >

> > The whole notion is based around a faulty premise of an invasion of privacy, but no privacy is being violated as nothing from the user claiming it is being taken from them without their consent. Instead a system is estimating based on Time, Mob health, and Known Quantities.

> >

> > TL;DR unless guess somehow became an invasion of your privacy then you have no complaint. If you have a complaint about guessing then you have other issues as the game as a whole has always had people make false assumptions. To which i'd ask would you rather arbitrary exclusion based on a non-factor like Class, AP, or Race or Proper performance based metrics to address problems that occur.

> >

>

> What you addressed is a straw man, built to avoid addressing his actual premise. He wants a choice. A publicly visible choice. That's the premise. Privacy is not the premise, it's a rationale used to support it. For what it's worth, I disagree that this is a privacy issue, and said as much in my first post in the thread. Choice is the central premise, and it's not dependent upon privacy concerns. If you don't want to group with someone who chooses not to share DPS info, then don't. A choice, for both parties, instead of a choice for one, and no choice for the other. What do you find objectionable about that, as a concept?

 

Such a choice already exist ? Whats stopping you or anyone else from forming their own guild/group/party and not using them ?

 

Personally im not seeing it, and im not seeing the actual argument being made for a redundancy check when there's no violations occurring.

[Javelin.7960]

> @Deihnyx.6318 said:

> > @Javelin.7960 said:

> > > @TexZero.7910 said:

> > > > @Kheldorn.5123 said:

> > > > And yet Anet takes no responsibility for damage caused by such tools. I do not trust its developer and other players, I don't know what other data than my dps numbers are being transfered through game memory to their clients.

> > >

> > > Pretty sure if you reported someone for verbal abuse with enough proof, something would be done.

> > >

> > > Unfortunately what we have here is a conjecture with wildly unsubstantiated claims of what could be instead of Facts.

> >

> > What we have here is a worldwide hay shortage due to all the strawmen constructed by the pro-meter side of this discussion. I don't think a single person has addressed the substance of the OPs suggestion from the opposing side. It's bizarre at this point, almost like a group of people desperately trying to avoid talking about an elephant standing in the middle of the room.

> >

> > If you'd like to be the first one to take a crack at it, I'll start you off:

> >

> > "I know you don't want to ban DPS meters, and your solution would seem to make both sides of the issue happy, but here's why you're wrong: ......"

>

> How do you call people who use the "it's a strawman argument" against every argument to silent them?

> It's gonna be called something too.

>

> Seriously, not everything here is a strawman, there are legit arguments from both sides.

 

Because, even at this moment, 4+ pages into this thread, no one has addressed the central theme of Kheldorn's OP, which is that he wants a choice. We've seen all kinds of arguments about why we don't need a choice, countless posts about how meters are great, some about how meters are bad, a few about why people who don't like meters don't like them from both sides, and not a single one, so far, about why having a choice is a bad thing.

[Deihnyx.6318]

> @Javelin.7960 said:

> > @Deihnyx.6318 said:

> > > @Javelin.7960 said:

> > > > @TexZero.7910 said:

> > > > > @Kheldorn.5123 said:

> > > > > And yet Anet takes no responsibility for damage caused by such tools. I do not trust its developer and other players, I don't know what other data than my dps numbers are being transfered through game memory to their clients.

> > > >

> > > > Pretty sure if you reported someone for verbal abuse with enough proof, something would be done.

> > > >

> > > > Unfortunately what we have here is a conjecture with wildly unsubstantiated claims of what could be instead of Facts.

> > >

> > > What we have here is a worldwide hay shortage due to all the strawmen constructed by the pro-meter side of this discussion. I don't think a single person has addressed the substance of the OPs suggestion from the opposing side. It's bizarre at this point, almost like a group of people desperately trying to avoid talking about an elephant standing in the middle of the room.

> > >

> > > If you'd like to be the first one to take a crack at it, I'll start you off:

> > >

> > > "I know you don't want to ban DPS meters, and your solution would seem to make both sides of the issue happy, but here's why you're wrong: ......"

> >

> > How do you call people who use the "it's a strawman argument" against every argument to silent them?

> > It's gonna be called something too.

> >

> > Seriously, not everything here is a strawman, there are legit arguments from both sides.

>

> Because, even at this moment, 4+ pages into this thread, no one has addressed the central theme of Kheldorn's OP, which is that he wants a choice. We've seen all kinds of arguments about why we don't need a choice, countless posts about how meters are great, some about how meters are bad, a few about why people who don't like meters don't like them from both sides, and not a single one, so far, about why having a choice is a bad thing.

 

Did you consider the fact that the one answer that was given to you (You have a choice, make your own group, and leave the groups of people who want to use them) was actually pretty legit?

[Torzini.1523]

Jesus Christ. Some form of DPS meter exists in most MMOs, guys. It's not an "invasion of privacy" or some crazy spy tool or whatever people think it is. I can't believe this is even a serious discussion.

[Javelin.7960]

> @TexZero.7910 said:

> > @Javelin.7960 said:

> > > @TexZero.7910 said:

> > > > @Javelin.7960 said:

> > > > If you'd like to be the first one to take a crack at it, I'll start you off:

> > > > "I know you don't want to ban DPS meters, and your solution would seem to make both sides of the issue happy, but here's why you're wrong: ......"

> > >

> > > I've already addressed why his premise is wrong. If you'd like to read it feel free as it's in this thread.

> > >

> > > The whole notion is based around a faulty premise of an invasion of privacy, but no privacy is being violated as nothing from the user claiming it is being taken from them without their consent. Instead a system is estimating based on Time, Mob health, and Known Quantities.

> > >

> > > TL;DR unless guess somehow became an invasion of your privacy then you have no complaint. If you have a complaint about guessing then you have other issues as the game as a whole has always had people make false assumptions. To which i'd ask would you rather arbitrary exclusion based on a non-factor like Class, AP, or Race or Proper performance based metrics to address problems that occur.

> > >

> >

> > What you addressed is a straw man, built to avoid addressing his actual premise. He wants a choice. A publicly visible choice. That's the premise. Privacy is not the premise, it's a rationale used to support it. For what it's worth, I disagree that this is a privacy issue, and said as much in my first post in the thread. Choice is the central premise, and it's not dependent upon privacy concerns. If you don't want to group with someone who chooses not to share DPS info, then don't. A choice, for both parties, instead of a choice for one, and no choice for the other. What do you find objectionable about that, as a concept?

>

> Such a choice already exist ? Whats stopping you or anyone else from forming their own guild/group/party and not using them ?

>

> Personally im not seeing it, and im not seeing the actual argument being made for a redundancy check when there's no violations occurring.

 

I don't think anyone in this thread is a senior developer or producer for this game. None of us are making resource allocation decisions, so feel free to 'dream big'. As a concept, absent any resource constraints, would you have a problem with a programmatic solution that addressed the concern and allowed individual accounts to disable DPS metering for their toons, provided their status in that regard was publicly provided prior to joining a group/squad/whatever?

 

I just don't see why anyone would have a problem with that, rationales used to justify it notwithstanding.

[Rhanoa.3960]

> @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

> > @Rhanoa.3960 said:

> > > @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

> > > > @Mara.6782 said:

> > > > Guildwars 2 has become Numberwars 2. People only look numbers was it about builds or dpsmeter. Always looking how much one class can do damage and if its not enough that class is worthless. This happen every time there is a nerf. Even if after that nerf that class still deal enough damage to kill stuff but just not enough to be "meta".

> > > > Is it fun playing game and only care about numbers just play for fun. I know its frustrated when someone is not doing much damage but in raids you should have enough people to kill boss in time. When i play a game i dont care how fast i can beat it i care how fun it is. Doing something in a hurry is not fun. Dps meter and meta make people toxic.

> > >

> > >

> > > No toxic people are Toxic, Combat meters are just a tool.

> > >

> > > If Combat Meters were what caused people to be Toxic and caused Meta to happen then there would have never been any toxicity or Metas before Combat Meters were allowed, but History Shows us Toxicity and Meta existed long before and it was all Arbitrarily based.

> > >

> >

> > Ya ya ya,..the toxicity plaguing both sides of the argument.

> > Frankly, it's still a pitiful claim for those pushing these Meta Builds and Meters.

> >

> > I'm here to play a VIDEO GAME have FUN not to be measured even if it means ruining your game experience. As I am not the one creating or agree to these benchmarks, nor should anyone else be subjected to them.

> >

> > This is not the NBA, NFL, or NHL DRAFT! I'm not here to perform for you.

>

> **And what pray tell entitles you to other player’s time? Oh right nothing.**

>

> And you have every means to avoid players using Combat Meters in a toxic manner. Oh who would have ever thought that such tools already existed in game.

 

Very good, but what you should have said is **No one is entitled or obligated to other players time.**

 

We do not have every means to avoid toxic players, you do not know until it actually occurs, even if it's with your own guild members.

[TexZero.7910]

> @Javelin.7960 said:

> I don't think anyone in this thread is a senior developer or producer for this game. None of us are making resource allocation decisions, so feel free to 'dream big'. As a concept, absent any resource constraints, would you have a problem with a programmatic solution that addressed the concern and allowed individual accounts to disable DPS metering for their toons, provided their status in that regard was publicly provided prior to joining a group/squad/whatever?

>

> I just don't see why anyone would have a problem with that, rationales used to justify it notwithstanding.

 

Why ?

 

If you absolutely do not want DPS meters, don't install one and don't join groups that use them. It's the much simpler approach and requires significantly less overhead.

Sorry if you don't like my liberal nature when it comes to programming but there's never been a need to add more checks when a human system already exist.

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

> @Javelin.7960 said:

> > @TexZero.7910 said:

> > > @Javelin.7960 said:

> > > > @TexZero.7910 said:

> > > > > @Javelin.7960 said:

> > > > > If you'd like to be the first one to take a crack at it, I'll start you off:

> > > > > "I know you don't want to ban DPS meters, and your solution would seem to make both sides of the issue happy, but here's why you're wrong: ......"

> > > >

> > > > I've already addressed why his premise is wrong. If you'd like to read it feel free as it's in this thread.

> > > >

> > > > The whole notion is based around a faulty premise of an invasion of privacy, but no privacy is being violated as nothing from the user claiming it is being taken from them without their consent. Instead a system is estimating based on Time, Mob health, and Known Quantities.

> > > >

> > > > TL;DR unless guess somehow became an invasion of your privacy then you have no complaint. If you have a complaint about guessing then you have other issues as the game as a whole has always had people make false assumptions. To which i'd ask would you rather arbitrary exclusion based on a non-factor like Class, AP, or Race or Proper performance based metrics to address problems that occur.

> > > >

> > >

> > > What you addressed is a straw man, built to avoid addressing his actual premise. He wants a choice. A publicly visible choice. That's the premise. Privacy is not the premise, it's a rationale used to support it. For what it's worth, I disagree that this is a privacy issue, and said as much in my first post in the thread. Choice is the central premise, and it's not dependent upon privacy concerns. If you don't want to group with someone who chooses not to share DPS info, then don't. A choice, for both parties, instead of a choice for one, and no choice for the other. What do you find objectionable about that, as a concept?

> >

> > Such a choice already exist ? Whats stopping you or anyone else from forming their own guild/group/party and not using them ?

> >

> > Personally im not seeing it, and im not seeing the actual argument being made for a redundancy check when there's no violations occurring.

>

> I don't think anyone in this thread is a senior developer or producer for this game. None of us are making resource allocation decisions, so feel free to 'dream big'. As a concept, absent any resource constraints, would you have a problem with a programmatic solution that addressed the concern and allowed individual accounts to disable DPS metering for their toons, provided their status in that regard was publicly provided prior to joining a group/squad/whatever?

>

> I just don't see why anyone would have a problem with that, rationales used to justify it notwithstanding.

 

But Anet has stated their stance and that the Combat Meters aren’t a priority and won’t receive any form of support besides checking on compliance with their set forth criteria. Funny how that has been answered and their are already tools to limit exposure to Combat Meters. Go see all my previous posts. The answers already exist.