Feanor.2358 Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 > @Luciferior.4802 said: > Now if you made it to the end of that horrific block of text being the thread while actually reading what I typed then I applaud you and I humbly ask your opinions if you agree or disagree Here's my honest opinion: you're wrong in this case (assuming it's about "stealing" champ train events). Don't get me wrong. I fully understand your side. I, too, have taken on group events solo for the fun of it. But please consider the other side. Just like you would like to do something, 30 other people would like to do something else. It doesn't matter if you understand or agree with their wishes, it is their right to, just like it is your right. In the end, it boils down to respecting the will of the majority. Which is a healthy thing to do. It avoids conflicts and creates a friendlier environment. If you don't have a specific reason for a particular event, step down. It's the smarter thing to do. Or wait the train. Yeah, it's not challenging. You'll have another shot. Or try to find a different instance of the map. Or wait for the champ train week to be over. Plenty of options. Only one leads to conflict. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexZero.7910 Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 > @Oldirtbeard.9834 said: > > @TexZero.7910 said: > > You don't pay my sub, you can't make me! > > > > Oh wait, this game doesn't have a sub.... > > And no one can make any one do anything any way regardless of whether there's a sub or not so what's your point exactly? You type out a one liner with no further explanation, what have you contributed to the discussion so that some one can make a meaningful reply? Calm down there, can't you enjoy a slight bit of levity in a conversation once in your life. Keep Calm and Praise Joko! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seera.5916 Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 > @Feanor.2358 said: > > @Luciferior.4802 said: > > Now if you made it to the end of that horrific block of text being the thread while actually reading what I typed then I applaud you and I humbly ask your opinions if you agree or disagree > > Here's my honest opinion: you're wrong in this case (assuming it's about "stealing" champ train events). Don't get me wrong. I fully understand your side. I, too, have taken on group events solo for the fun of it. But please consider the other side. Just like you would like to do something, 30 other people would like to do something else. It doesn't matter if you understand or agree with their wishes, it is their right to, just like it is your right. In the end, it boils down to respecting the will of the majority. Which is a healthy thing to do. It avoids conflicts and creates a friendlier environment. If you don't have a specific reason for a particular event, step down. It's the smarter thing to do. Or wait the train. Yeah, it's not challenging. You'll have another shot. Or try to find a different instance of the map. Or wait for the champ train week to be over. Plenty of options. Only one leads to conflict. Eh a player shouldn't have to wait for the train to go elsewhere if they want the challenge of the solo. The train doesn't own the instance. A player shouldn't go and explicitly try to find the next champ in the train to kill with the sole purpose of derailing the train. But if you're on the map going for map completion and you like the challenge of soloing champions and you end up finding one, even if it is the next in line for a champ train, one shouldn't have to wait for the train to come to do the event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luciferior.4802 Posted October 16, 2017 Author Share Posted October 16, 2017 In regards to DeWolfe.2174 about the statement "wait.... is this 2013? Sorry OP, you come off as someone going out of their way to be hostile and antagonistic toward your fellow Tyrians. You're likely to not stand on sound moral footing with such a low opinion of others." Why would I have a high opinion regarding people who are going out their way to rage at me via whispers because I'm not playing by their standards? sorry but I'm not big on turning the other cheek if I go out my way to be an asshole to them sure they have that go ahead to return fire but if I'm just playing by my self and I happen to be at the same event ...that isn't a opening for them to let loose on me because I don't follow their trends if by doing that it makes me hostile or antagonistic towards people who are starting on me when I havnt done anything to them that seems kind of backwards tbh. If I am just there to part take in the event *referencing the breaking the ice chain event and I'm not derailing anything trolling anything I'm just contributing and they start cussing me out in whispers without me saying a word ...that makes them *hostile and antagonistic* not me. I'm not trying to play the innocent little butterfly card here I'm just trying to enjoy my self by doing some events I'm not out to ruin anyone else's fun but if someone lets loose in a whisper raging at me because I wasn't joining their zerg then yes I give them what I feel they deserve in return and I don't try to play it off like its nice it isn't... Years ago it used to be if someone went up to you and did something whether it was in game or real life and the goal was to cause you issues be it physical or mental they were the ones held accountable and dealt with not the person they went after ....Now it feels like people can do what they want to ya and if you have the gall to do something in return in defense of your self then you are the bad guy. If by chance someone decides to say you can be the bigger man and not say anything in return I don't play that game we are all accountable for our actions not just me and not just them I admit I'm guilty when I say my shit in return to them I don't pretend otherwise but I'm not the one initiating these issues intentionally if me being there playing how I do someone triggers them that's their issue they might want to work on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrbitalButt.5708 Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 I don't get it, was there supposed to be a poll to vote on or something? This just seems like a bunch of vaguely insulting wall of text rants about "entitlement" or whatever the word-of-the-day to use wrong happens to be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shard.4791 Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 People follow their own made up rules but you forge your own path. Good for you. I don't think any game can get rid of the common "scrub" mentality as famously explained in Sirlin's Playing to Win e-book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luciferior.4802 Posted October 16, 2017 Author Share Posted October 16, 2017 Its more of an informed opinion gathering thread one day I will learn how to actually create a poll and then people can vote how they want in it because currently I don't know how tbh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 Don't worry OP, no players "owns" open world content. If you wanted to kill a champ and managed to do it, you have no obligation to consult with players in the map. If you were attacked by players and game rules were broken in terms of player chat, you can report players to GMs to investigate their behaviour. Until they are punished, blocking players overly attracted to your choice of gameplay should help with avoiding escalation of the conflict. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldirtbeard.9834 Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 > @Vayne.8563 said: > > @Oldirtbeard.9834 said: > > > @Djinn.9245 said: > > > > @Luciferior.4802 said: > > > > Now before this thread gets start ill start off saying I tend to ramble and my grammar is poor at best so please bare with me if not your choice ...Now this thread is being started because my experiences regarding events during nice map bonus rotations like Frostgorge Sound is this week seem to be getting out of hand specifically during event chains like Breaking the Ice ..Anytime there is a zerg with a tag up or a few people that are wanting their max loot for minimal effort ...me playing how I do I tend to go try and earn my loot by actually pressing my skills rather then standing still on someone else's tag waiting for orders ...ill flat out say anytime I am not sitting at a zergs blueprint in the fetal position or I am fighting a lone scaled up champion ...because I actually made a spec that was able to do it I seem to be in the wrong getting rage whispers from people map chat public shaming and the usual angry mob tactic because I didn't join their squad or I'm not fighting where they are > > > > > > I completely understand your POV, and no one should say anything nasty or insulting to you for choosing to play the game the way you choose. If they do, you should report them. On the other side of the coin, it sounds like you joined a map where a group of people are all trying to accomplish the same thing that you are trying to accomplish, but instead of joining them so everyone on the map can benefit you chose to go solo which only benefits you and actually detracts from the experience of the zerg full of people. > > > > > > As I said in my first sentence, that is your choice and no one should denigrate you for it. But don't pretend that you are on the high moral ground here. We are taught when we are toddlers about sharing and cooperating for a reason. > > > > He's not the one harassing people so yes he is on the moral high ground since he is a victim. > > Being a victim doesn't automatically give you moral highground. Just means that guy who beat you don't have it. If you're talking about some one's over all character then yes you are correct, thankfully though in any courts that matter they base it off of an incident by incident basis unless you're trying to set up a circumstantial case to bolster the actual evidence, that's why at least in a court of criminal law guilt is based off of the burden of truth where we both originate. As some one that has no value or love for the silent majority I find things to be a slippery slope when you base moral high ground on morals and community standards because then you can say that some one that chooses to not conform can not have the moral high ground if they are attacked for breaking a society's rules be it violating the Zergling Laws of Open World PVE, choosing to live openly as a Homosexual in a deeply rural community, or worshiping the wrong god in a country that has a knee jerk reaction against a general group of a fairy tale enthusiasts because of an unfortunate event that occurred almost 20 years ago such as being a Star Wars fan because of the new movies despite the terror and sociological damage the Prequel Trilogy did to us around the turn of the 20th century in US culture (I kid I kid, even though those movies were a tragedy I was really referring to the treatment of Muslims after 9/11). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 > @Seera.5916 said: > > @Feanor.2358 said: > > > @Luciferior.4802 said: > > > Now if you made it to the end of that horrific block of text being the thread while actually reading what I typed then I applaud you and I humbly ask your opinions if you agree or disagree > > > > Here's my honest opinion: you're wrong in this case (assuming it's about "stealing" champ train events). Don't get me wrong. I fully understand your side. I, too, have taken on group events solo for the fun of it. But please consider the other side. Just like you would like to do something, 30 other people would like to do something else. It doesn't matter if you understand or agree with their wishes, it is their right to, just like it is your right. In the end, it boils down to respecting the will of the majority. Which is a healthy thing to do. It avoids conflicts and creates a friendlier environment. If you don't have a specific reason for a particular event, step down. It's the smarter thing to do. Or wait the train. Yeah, it's not challenging. You'll have another shot. Or try to find a different instance of the map. Or wait for the champ train week to be over. Plenty of options. Only one leads to conflict. > > Eh a player shouldn't have to wait for the train to go elsewhere if they want the challenge of the solo. The train doesn't own the instance. > > A player shouldn't go and explicitly try to find the next champ in the train to kill with the sole purpose of derailing the train. > > But if you're on the map going for map completion and you like the challenge of soloing champions and you end up finding one, even if it is the next in line for a champ train, one shouldn't have to wait for the train to come to do the event. It's about mutual respect. Conforming to the will of the majority, it's the essence of the democracy. You're not forced to do it if you don't willingly choose to. But in my opinion you have no right to complain when people get angry at you for that. You've chosen to act according to your own wishes and disregarding those of a large group. It's an act of selfishness and you lose the moral authority by taking it. You, of course, are free to disagree with me. However, keep in mind my stance explains the dynamics of this interaction. They don't change. They repeat, like Arkk says "over and over and over again". If everyone else is doing the same thing which seems wrong to you, maybe it's time to ask yourself if you're doing the right thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 > @Feanor.2358 said: > > @Seera.5916 said: > > > @Feanor.2358 said: > > > > @Luciferior.4802 said: > > > > Now if you made it to the end of that horrific block of text being the thread while actually reading what I typed then I applaud you and I humbly ask your opinions if you agree or disagree > > > > > > Here's my honest opinion: you're wrong in this case (assuming it's about "stealing" champ train events). Don't get me wrong. I fully understand your side. I, too, have taken on group events solo for the fun of it. But please consider the other side. Just like you would like to do something, 30 other people would like to do something else. It doesn't matter if you understand or agree with their wishes, it is their right to, just like it is your right. In the end, it boils down to respecting the will of the majority. Which is a healthy thing to do. It avoids conflicts and creates a friendlier environment. If you don't have a specific reason for a particular event, step down. It's the smarter thing to do. Or wait the train. Yeah, it's not challenging. You'll have another shot. Or try to find a different instance of the map. Or wait for the champ train week to be over. Plenty of options. Only one leads to conflict. > > > > Eh a player shouldn't have to wait for the train to go elsewhere if they want the challenge of the solo. The train doesn't own the instance. > > > > A player shouldn't go and explicitly try to find the next champ in the train to kill with the sole purpose of derailing the train. > > > > But if you're on the map going for map completion and you like the challenge of soloing champions and you end up finding one, even if it is the next in line for a champ train, one shouldn't have to wait for the train to come to do the event. > > It's about mutual respect. Conforming to the will of the majority, it's the essence of the democracy. You're not forced to do it if you don't willingly choose to. But in my opinion you have no right to complain when people get angry at you for that. You've chosen to act according to your own wishes and disregarding those of a large group. It's an act of selfishness and you lose the moral authority by taking it. > > You, of course, are free to disagree with me. However, keep in mind my stance explains the dynamics of this interaction. They don't change. They repeat, like Arkk says "over and over and over again". If everyone else is doing the same thing which seems wrong to you, maybe it's time to ask yourself if you're doing the right thing. Democracy doesn't apply here as no official voting has been done and no official state controls decision making by players in game. You may call it rude, it's just a matter of personal opinion, but there is no rule in game to ask players in map if you are allowed to participate in the event. The purpose of the event is to kill teh champ so killing a champ is playing the game as intended. If there was a requirement e.g. of 20 people to spawn the bounty, than we could talk about official policing how this group content should be played. Currently it's all about free will and personal choice. About people being angry, if they are civilized about it and don't break User Agreement in how you are supposed to use chat they are free to do so. As much as person being attacked is free to ignore them and even block if he wishes to do so. Basically, if he manages to kill the champ, he earned his reward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrizzFreston.5290 Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 Its a game. Basically a playground where the big group bullies the lone kid because he plays a little differently than the rest. Seriously, you guys all talking about moral high ground and democracy and selfishness are out of depth here. Its ridiculous that a group might be stalled less than a few minutes for the next less than a gold drop and that that is important enough to justify being aggressive and negative to one person who doesnt fall in and be a sheep to the unwritten playground rules. There's enough events for everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldirtbeard.9834 Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 > @FrizzFreston.5290 said: > Its a game. Basically a playground where the big group bullies the lone kid because he plays a little differently than the rest. > > Seriously, you guys all talking about moral high ground and democracy and selfishness are out of depth here. > > Its ridiculous that a group might be stalled less than a few minutes for the next less than a gold drop and that that is important enough to justify being aggressive and negative to one person who doesnt fall in and be a sheep to the unwritten playground rules. There's enough events for everyone. The only difference between a group of bullies with mob mentality and a Hate Group is scale and organization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > Basically, if he manages to kill the champ, he earned his reward. Yup. Both literally and figuratively. That's why I said he won't be right to complain about being flamed. Whenever you make a choice, you shouldn't complain about its consequences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 > @Feanor.2358 said: > > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > > Basically, if he manages to kill the champ, he earned his reward. > > Yup. Both literally and figuratively. That's why I said he won't be right to complain about being flamed. Whenever you make a choice, you shouldn't complain about its consequences. Oh if this is what you mean, than I agree completely. However if people attacking OP are breaking game rules regarding chat OP has every right to report them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rashagar.8349 Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 > @Luciferior.4802 said: > #3 Thou shalt let low levels players who are 20 levels below the minimal zone suggestion tag the mobs your fighting even if they will get 1 shot > ...I mean exaggerations and cheeky kitten mode aside who am I playing this game for if not me? I didn't join their guilds or their LFMs or their squads If I did then yes id be obligated to comply Just regarding the quoted bit, I mean it's not a commandment but yes I'd often scale back my own attacks to let lower level people or inefficiently geared people or people who mentioned in map chat that they were on their way to it but were still a little ways out get hits in and a chance for credit before I finished the targets off for myself. Assuming I'm paying attention enough to notice anyway. I sort of assumed that anyone would do that though, regardless of how they'd geared their character? Maybe I'm not taking the right thing away from your OP (in my defence it is a very solid wall of text) but there seemed to be an insinuation that you'd deliberately choose to not let other people get in there? Which is honestly baffling to me. Not defending people who harass or flame or whatever but, yeah. There might be a need for a bit of a distinction here between "I have the right to do it" and "I'm in the right when I do it". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luciferior.4802 Posted October 16, 2017 Author Share Posted October 16, 2017 In regards to Rashagar.8349 ...how the lowbies geared their toon is their choice I'm not picking on that they were just blatantly below the suggested zone level some were in their 50s level wise and it was during the escort part of the breaking the ice chain where you have to protect the dolyaks some of the mobs were vets there were several chances for people to tag these mobs as they were already close to the dolyaks but if your asking did I wait all day for them to press tab and spam one a few times? No I did not and here is an example why ..mind you only an example ...Someone makes a plate of cookies and puts it out for everyone in the area then puts a sign out saying "These cookies are for everyone" someone looking at the cookie plate says meh I'm not really hungry atm ill come back and get one later on 4 hours pass by that plate is licked clean everyone was nice and kept it to 1 cookie per just to be safe the guy that missed out comes back and says I didn't get one.. The person who made the cookies asked if you wanted one why did you wait? I realize that's a vague example but imo it fits the roll ...regarding these low levels and the mobs ...These mobs are literally coming in droves especially when scaled up they take a moment to kill and I'm not out to tell these lowbie players how to play but there is a certain amount of time that passes from letting lowbies getting a couple of hits in vs risking the event failing because the dolyaks got swarmed there are plenty of mobs in that area no single person can take them all out that fast when they are scaled up. That is why I named the thread the way I did if people want their loot their experience "Imo" they should atleast be willing to put some effort in for it expecting those mobs to just run up in a blob die with a single 1 spam and cough up a bunch of XP and Loot for it as I stated *imo* doesn't really count as earning it *to me* I realize everyone that might be a different story and if they want to sit there and wait for a drove of mobs to just run up to them GL with that I prefer to pull my weight to a certain extent when it comes to group events even if I stay off in an area by my self. People used to teach the concept of proactivity to their kids telling them as an example *if you want some result in life you want to be a fireman a doctor you want to do something specific Go do it get it done don't just sit there and wait for it" people are welcome to make the choices they want but in this game and even in real life the world doesn't stop spinning because you wanted to take a moment and look up at the clouds. I know some people have forgotten some of these events in the game are actually capable of failing and nothing will piss off a bunch of people more than an event that fails because people weren't paying attention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purgatori.3645 Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 any legitimate points you may have made have been skewed beyond belief. If you want the community to take you seriously then take a few moments to sit back and think before you type. This game is for everyone including those who may feel entitled. If you dont roll that way then do what you came to do and move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luciferior.4802 Posted October 16, 2017 Author Share Posted October 16, 2017 Whether the community as a whole takes me serious is up to them some will some wont I accept that. I realize I stretched it out further then it needed to be but I would rather be certain the point of the thread was made clear rather then people still trying to figure out what I was referring to. Some people in the more recent part of the thread made statements implying they needed more elaboration from me about what I was talking about and I elaborated yes a bit too much but I think its settled for the most part. id close the thread but ermm I don't know how lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBZVelena.5186 Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 I think somebody missed where they can actually make polls? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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