Likely Themes for Third Wave of Elite Specializations

[Eddy.7051]

The list below is _mostly_ an analysis, rather than speculation or proposition, **identifying the remaining core profession themes that are not used by the current elite specializations**. Elite specs primarily expand upon core profession themes, and they may additionally have secondary themes that do not exist within their core professions. These primary and secondary themes allude to the secondary profession mechanic in GW1. For example, the Druid's primary theme is the Ranger's nature/plant theme, while the Druid's secondary theme is the unique astral/celestial theme.

 

These core profession themes are identified within core specializations, core utility skill types, and core profession skills (aka F1-5 skills). Primary themes in new elite specs should be core profession themes that are unused by our current elite specs, while secondary themes in new elite specs are not limited to this list. This analysis does not identify missing play styles (ranged, brawler, skirmisher, etc.), roles (damage, support, utility, etc.), or weapons for each profession and their respective elite specs. This analysis focuses purely on fantasy themes and flavor.

 

**Elementalist Unused Theme: Non-Elemental Magic or Essence of Magic (Arcane spec/skills)**

* Tempest Themes: AoE Storms (Fire Attunement/spec), Sharing Auras/Elements (Water Attunement/spec and Conjure skills)

* Weaver Themes: Mixing Attunements (Glyph skills), Defense (Earth Attunement/spec and Cantrip skills), Mobility (Air Attunement/spec)

* _Potential Third Elite Spec Themes: Discovered Ancient/Mists Magic or Experimental Synergistics/Metaphysical Magic_

 

**Engineer Unused Themes: Chemistry (Alchemy spec and Elixir skills), Gear Tech (Gadget skills)**

* Scrapper: Gyros and Barrier (Inventions spec and Turret skills), Superspeed and Electricity (Tools spec)

* Holosmith: Photon Forge (Firearms spec and Kit skills), Overheat (Explosives spec), Holograms

* _Potential Third Elite Spec Themes: Chemical Warfare, Transforming Matter, Medicine, or Synthetic Coating like Thief Venoms_

 

**Mesmer Unused Themes: Lyssa's Magic of Beauty (Glamour skills), Emotional Influence (Inspiration spec), Randomness (Chaos spec)**

* Chronomancer Themes: Interruption and Slow (Domination spec and Diversion), Quickness and Alacrity (Mantra skills)

* Mirage Themes: Mirage Cloak (Illusion spec/skills, Dueling spec, Manipulation skills, and Distortion), Confusion (Cry of Frustration)

* _Potential Third Elite Spec Themes: Performing Arts, like Dance and Music, or Visual Arts_

 

**Necromancer Unused Themes: Corporeal (Death Magic spec and Minion skills), Sacrifice (Corruption skills), Fear**

* Reaper Themes: Martial Shroud (Soul Reaping spec and Spectral skills), Leeching Shouts (Blood Magic spec), Chill and Grenth's magic

* Scourge Themes: Boon Corruption and Attrition (Spite spec), Condition Management and Diversity (Curses spec), Barrier

* _Potential Third Elite Spec Themes: Disease, Flesh, or Mutation_

 

**Ranger Unused Themes: Distance and Accuracy (Marksmanship spec), Flanking and Ambushing (Skirmishing spec and Trap skills)**

* Druid: Plants (Wilderness Survival spec/skills and Nature Magic spec), Celestial/Astral (Spirit skills)

* Soulbeast: Beastmode and Animal Stances (Beastmastery spec, Command skills, and Pet skills)

* _Potential Third Elite Spec Themes: Hunting/Stalking, Heightened Senses, or Makeshift Weapon Resourcefulness_

 

**Revenant Unused Themes: N/A**

* Revenants are the profession of all professions, and they can have any theme from any other profession. Revenant elite specializations add new themes to the Revenant, rather than expand upon existing themes from the Revenant, so there are no used Revenant themes in the Revenant elite specs. This type of analysis does not apply to the Revenant.

* _There is speculation that the third elite spec for the Revenant may be related to a playable race. Humans have Shiro, Sylvari have Ventari, and Charr have Kalla. The third elite spec may be related to the Asura, Norn, or new playable race. The legendary character invoked by the third elite spec may also be a villain because the current elite specs do not invoke villains._

 

**Thief Unused Themes: Fighting Dirty (Trickery spec/skills and Steal), Poison (Deadly Arts spec and Venom skills)**

* Daredevil: Dodging and Martial Arts (Acrobatics spec), Weakness

* Deadeye: Mark and Malice (Critical Strikes spec), Malice Stealth Attacks (Shadow Arts spec and Deception skills), Ambush Tech (Preparation skills)

* _Potential Third Elite Spec Themes: Outlawed/Unethical Substances, Craftiness and Unfair Advantages, or Criminal/Gang Activity_

 

**Warrior Unused Themes: Weapon Versatility (Discipline spec), Military Formations (Tactics spec and Shout skills), and War Supplies (Banner skills)**

* Berserker: Rage and Berserk mode (Strength spec, Arms spec, Physical skills, and Burst skills), Burning and Balthazar's magic

* Spellbreaker: Full Counter (Defense spec and Stance skills), Anti Magic

* _Potential Third Elite Spec Themes: Adapting Combat Styles or Sharing Arsenal (2H battleaxe, spear, etc.) like Elementalist Conjures_

 

**Guardian Unused Themes: Tanking and Retaliation (Valor spec), Dwayna's Domains of Healing and Air (Honor spec), and Spirits**

* Dragonhunter: Physical Virtues (Meditation skills and Spirit Weapon skills), Traps (Zeal spec and Consecration skills), Long Range

* Firebrand: Quickness and Boon Support (Virtues spec and Shout skills), Burn (Radiance spec), Non-combat Weapons

* _Potential Third Elite Spec Themes: Leading Spirit Troops or Reflecting Wind_

 

Edit: Condensed the introduction and tweaked profession listings

There is also another analysis focused on elite spec roles, rather than themes, linked below.

[https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/101554/likely-roles-for-third-wave-of-elite-specs/p1?new=1](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/101554/likely-roles-for-third-wave-of-elite-specs/p1?new=1)

[Fenom.9457]

Feeling hyped right now and I'm doing my own version of Canthan specs, would like to see others' ideas. You've got a good foundation here but no outlines for lore, gameplay, name, new weapons?

[zealex.9410]

The performer aspect for .esmer could potentially lead to some kind of bard mesmer using lb or sb.

 

Could be interesting.

[Eddy.7051]

> @"Fenom.9457" said:

> Feeling hyped right now and I'm doing my own version of Canthan specs, would like to see others' ideas. You've got a good foundation here but no outlines for lore, gameplay, name, new weapons?

 

Yes. I don’t want to provide too much speculation because that isn’t useful information to anybody. Speculation would just be my biases, preferences, and imagination. I want to provide information by highlighting missing themes from core specializations. Please feel free to use that information as the foundation for your speculations.

[The Greyhawk.9107]

> @"zealex.9410" said:

> The performer aspect for .esmer could potentially lead to some kind of bard mesmer using lb or sb.

>

> Could be interesting.

 

What about warhorn, wouldn't an instrument better fit a Performer type?

[ErickDntn.1847]

This is a great way to see the possibilities as a big picture!

 

Worth to note that it seems some of the considerations also fall on the ground that a number of the existing elite specializations have borrowed the underlying mechanics of other base professions, e.g. utility skill types. Other examples also how druid, holo, berserker have transformation mechanics akin to necro shroud with their own resource pool albeit not a one-on-one comparison. Or even mirage and daredevil that revolves on dodging! So what I'm trying to say is that some of the ideas mentioned and whatnot might translate to something similar or already existing mechanics, and even crazier ideas they might come up in the end! :smiley:

 

On another note, I was screwing around about an elementalist elite spec a long time ago called Runebinder, and on the opposite, it forgoes the arcane magic aspect of the class (I'm just gonna leave a link here if anyone is wondering: [https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/59575/elite-spec-concept-rune-binder#latest](http://https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/59575/elite-spec-concept-rune-binder#latest) )

[zealex.9410]

> @"The Greyhawk.9107" said:

> > @"zealex.9410" said:

> > The performer aspect for .esmer could potentially lead to some kind of bard mesmer using lb or sb.

> >

> > Could be interesting.

>

> What about warhorn, wouldn't an instrument better fit a Performer type?

 

The skin for the sb lb could be a harpbow.

[Lurana.7506]

> **Thief**

> * Daredevil: Acrobatics, Martial Arts, Dodging

> * Deadeye: Shadow Arts, Deception, Critical Strikes

> * Missing Themes: Trickery/Steal, Deadly Arts/Venom/Preparations

> * Potential theme may focus on **Fighting Dirty and/or Hidden Tricks**

 

I like that idea!

[Liewec.2896]

engineer is missing Golemancer, though its not really thematic with Cantha (because GW1 had no engies)

 

but Thief getting Greatsword in a Samurai kinda spec is almost certain.

[SoulGuardian.6203]

If we're going to cantha, it most likely be oriental themed es and weapons.

Or we could possibly get the dual class feature.

Either one or the other.

I hope mesmers finally get the proper interrupts that made them so famous in gw1, together with fast casting.

 

Elona was the right moment and time for a land spear and scythe, so doubt we'll see them now; but most likely cantha will give us shuriken, Pole-Axe, and other ninja and samurai weapons?

Maybe no new weapons at all...

But warrior is running out of options, and much rather seeing it with a double chained swords than a scepter and focus.

[The Greyhawk.9107]

> @"Liewec.2896" said:

> engineer is missing Golemancer, though its not really thematic with Cantha (because GW1 had no engies)

>

> but Thief getting Greatsword in a Samurai kinda spec is almost certain.

 

There is a part of me that would like the Thief to get the GS, but Samurai thematically doesn't fit their archetype. Theme wise Samurai would best be applied to a heavy armored class, perhaps the Revs, they're missing GS's too and the 'Legend' stance could be based off of Talon Silverwing.

[Linken.6345]

> @"The Greyhawk.9107" said:

> > @"Liewec.2896" said:

> > engineer is missing Golemancer, though its not really thematic with Cantha (because GW1 had no engies)

> >

> > but Thief getting Greatsword in a Samurai kinda spec is almost certain.

>

> There is a part of me that would like the Thief to get the GS, but Samurai thematically doesn't fit their archetype. Theme wise Samurai would best be applied to a heavy armored class, perhaps the Revs, they're missing GS's too and the 'Legend' stance could be based off of Talon Silverwing.

 

Thief could get off hand sword as a ninja instead of Samurai tho.

[The Greyhawk.9107]

> @"Linken.6345" said:

> > @"The Greyhawk.9107" said:

> > > @"Liewec.2896" said:

> > > engineer is missing Golemancer, though its not really thematic with Cantha (because GW1 had no engies)

> > >

> > > but Thief getting Greatsword in a Samurai kinda spec is almost certain.

> >

> > There is a part of me that would like the Thief to get the GS, but Samurai thematically doesn't fit their archetype. Theme wise Samurai would best be applied to a heavy armored class, perhaps the Revs, they're missing GS's too and the 'Legend' stance could be based off of Talon Silverwing.

>

> Thief could get off hand sword as a ninja instead of Samurai tho.

 

I would be perfectly happy with that, especially now that there isn't the excuse of "having an off hand sword with a main hand dagger wouldn't work" anymore thanks to the Spellbreaker.

[Kodama.6453]

> @"Linken.6345" said:

> > @"The Greyhawk.9107" said:

> > > @"Liewec.2896" said:

> > > engineer is missing Golemancer, though its not really thematic with Cantha (because GW1 had no engies)

> > >

> > > but Thief getting Greatsword in a Samurai kinda spec is almost certain.

> >

> > There is a part of me that would like the Thief to get the GS, but Samurai thematically doesn't fit their archetype. Theme wise Samurai would best be applied to a heavy armored class, perhaps the Revs, they're missing GS's too and the 'Legend' stance could be based off of Talon Silverwing.

>

> Thief could get off hand sword as a ninja instead of Samurai tho.

 

I said it once and I will say it again: A ninja elite spec for thief would be redundant.

 

Daredevil already fills the thematical niche of a ninja. Look at their head armor piece, the weapon (Bo), they have alot of martial arts references in their skills and traits, many Asian culture references (Bo, Lotus Training, etc) and also is a high mobility fighter.

You can't tell me that "ninja" was not the first thing coming to your mind when their artwork got revealed to us:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/thumb/e/e8/Spec_image_Daredevil.jpg/719px-Spec_image_Daredevil.jpg

 

So I think Anet should not give us another take on the ninja thematic and give us another espec for the thief instead.

My personal opinion: Make the thief a gang leader ala Yakuza. It would fit the Asian thematic of the expansion and also fits Cantha in general quite nicely. In GW1 Factions, there have been gangs fighting for power in Kaineng, like the Am Fah and the Jade Brotherhood.

 

Thief also is one of the last 2 remaining classes without any real minion archetype (warrior is the other one).

So maybe thief can get a specialisation that makes them the leader of their own small gang, each utility skill summoning one of their members.

[Kodama.6453]

And my suggestion for the engineer elite spec: **Plaguedoctors**

 

It would just be amazing. In Cantha's history, there has been that magical disease called the "plague" that forged the flesh of people into abominations, they were called the "afflicted".

 

Before the disease disappeared, there surely have been scientists trying to find a solution for it. Experimenting with different chemicals, concoctions and other ways to influence biology. And even if these haven't been successful, they could have found an offensive use for their studies. With the high amount of organised crime in Cantha (underground gangs and such), surely there would have been people interested in this knowledge to find new creative ways to get rid of their enemies.

 

And so the Plaguedoctors over time started to become a symbol of chemical warfare instead of just healing.

[SoulGuardian.6203]

Of course this is merely speculation.

But I've heard there's going to be a twist in the game.

Even cellofrag says so himself.

I wonder if the twist will be dual class Elite Specs, rather than anything discussed so far?

What if you get to go on quests to unlock all other 8 classes, in order to allow you to mix and match specialisations.

For instance Revs devastastion with mesmer dueling.

Not entirely sure how would that work, but the "twist" could really mean anything.

[Kodama.6453]

> @"SoulGuardian.6203" said:

> Of course this is merely speculation.

> But I've heard there's going to be a twist in the game.

> Even cellofrag says so himself.

> I wonder if the twist will be dual class Elite Specs, rather than anything discussed so far?

> What if you get to go on quests to unlock all other 8 classes, in order to allow you to mix and match specialisations.

> For instance Revs devastastion with mesmer dueling.

> Not entirely sure how would that work, but the "twist" could really mean anything.

 

The game is already hard enough to balance with the current system. Allowing dual classing would be an absolute nightmare and I hope that this is not going to happen.

Elite specs are Anets ways to give us "dual classes", they stated so themselves. When creating elite specs, they partly get inspired by the thought "what would be a fusion of these 2 classes"?

 

An example by Anet: Spellbreaker.

Thematically, the spellbreaker is their fusion of the warrior and the mesmer. Instead of creating illusions themselves, the spellbreaker is able to see **through** illusions, seeing the truth behind everything. Also they have anti-magical feats.

 

I think this is the road they should continue on. My own idea for the Plaguedoctor for engineer, for example, would thematically be a fusion of the engineer and the necromancer.

 

But you got me interested: Can you share a link where that "twist" is mentioned?

[SoulGuardian.6203]

> @"Kodama.6453" said:

> > @"SoulGuardian.6203" said:

> > Of course this is merely speculation.

> > But I've heard there's going to be a twist in the game.

> > Even cellofrag says so himself.

> > I wonder if the twist will be dual class Elite Specs, rather than anything discussed so far?

> > What if you get to go on quests to unlock all other 8 classes, in order to allow you to mix and match specialisations.

> > For instance Revs devastastion with mesmer dueling.

> > Not entirely sure how would that work, but the "twist" could really mean anything.

>

>

> But you got me interested: Can you share a link where that "twist" is mentioned?

 

I think it is in one of his latest videos on youtube.

But I warn you... he does have a very heavy french accent.

[Eddy.7051]

> @"Liewec.2896" said:

> engineer is missing Golemancer, though its not really thematic with Cantha (because GW1 had no engies)

>

> but Thief getting Greatsword in a Samurai kinda spec is almost certain.

 

Holosmith feels like enough asuran tech for me. I like that scrapper is charr tech, holomancer is asura tech, and something chemical-based could be sylvari or human tech.

I also think Thief should avoid bulkier martial weapons. I enjoy that their current flavor is to use lighter martial weapons.

[VocalThought.9835]

Warrior---------------------------------Prof Mech.:---------------Weapon:--------Skill:-----

Elite 1: Berserker -------------------Primal Burst--------------Torch-------------Rage

Elite 2: Spellbreaker----------------Full Counter--------------Dual Daggers--Meditations

Elite 3: Champion/Juggernaut---Absorption-----------------M.H. Shield-----Ward (Punishment)

Elite 4: Warlord----------------------Field Command (Well)-Staff(Melee)-----Recruits (Minions)

 

Guardian-----------------------------Prof Mech.:-------------------Weapon:--------Skill:-----

Elite 1: Dragon Hunter:-----------Physical Virtues-------------Long Bow-------Traps

Elite 2: Fire Brand-----------------Tomes--------------------------M.H. Axe--------Mantras

Elite 3: Archon----------------------Virtuous Attunement-------O.H. Sword-----Glyphs

Elite 4: Mystic-----------------------Summons Virtuous Pets---O.H. Scepter---Spectral

 

Revenant----------------------------Prof Mech.:---------------Weapon:--------Skill:-----

Elite 1: Herald----------------------Facet of Nature-----------Shield------------Dragon Stance (Signet)

Elite 2: Renegade-----------------Citadel Orders------------Short Bow-------Warband (Spirits)

Elite 3: Rift Slayer-----------------Plane Merge (Marks)---Great Sword----Dimensional Gates

Elite 4: Mist Walker---------------Overcharge----------------Dual Pistols-----Gadgets

 

Ranger-----------------------------Prof Mech.:------------------Weapon:--------Skill:-----

Elite 1: Druid---------------------Celestial Avatar-------------Staff-------------Glyphs

Elite 2: Soul Beast--------------Beastmode------------------M.H. Dagger--Stances

Elite 3: Warden-----------------Dual Pets---------------------Shield-----------Glamours

Elite 4: Shaman----------------Shape-shift-------------------Focus-----------Totems

 

Thief -------------------------------Prof Mech.:---------------Weapon:--------Skill:-----

Elite 1: Daredevil--------------Extra Endurance----------Staff------------ Physical

Elite 2: Deadeye----------------Malice----------------------Rifle------------ Cantrips

Elite 3: Inquisitor----------------Intuition--------------------Torch-----------Stances

Elite 4: Shadow Mage--------Shadow Thief-------------- Focus---------- Arcane

 

Engineer--------------------------Prof Mech.:---------------Weapon:--------Skill:-----

Elite 1: Scrapper-------------Function Gyro---------------Hammer--------Gyros

Elite 2: Holosmith------------Photon Forge----------------M.H. Sword-----Exceed

Elite 3: Technomancer-----Cybernetics------------------Staff--------------Signets

Elite 4: Machinist-------------Mech Suit(Shroud)---------M.H. Mace------Gears(Conjures)

 

Elementalist-------------------------------Prof Mech.:---------------Weapon:--------Skill:-----

Elite 1: Tempest----------Overcharge--------------------War Horn-----------Shouts

Elite 2: Weaver-----------Dual Attune---------------------M.H. Sword----------Stances

Elite 3: Warlock-----------5th Element--------------------M.H. Focus----------Mantras

Elite 4: Rune Master-----Elemental Avatars-----------Long Bow----------Runes (Traps)

 

Mesmer-------------------------------Prof Mech.:---------------Weapon:--------Skill:-----

Elite 1: Chronomancer----Continuum Split------------Shield---------------Wells

Elite 2: Mirage--------------Mirage Cloak----------------M.H. Axe-----------Deception

Elite 3: Enchanter----------5 Clones (Reduce Dmg)-Short Bow----------Enchantment(Turrets)

Elite 4: Psionic-------------Hex (Adrenaline, 1 clone)-Dual Daggers-----Shouts

 

Necromancer-----------------------Prof Mech.:-------------------Weapon:--------------Skill:-----

Elite 1: Reaper---------------------Reaper Shroud--------------Great Sword----------Shouts

Elite 2: Scourge--------------------Shade---------------------------Torch-------------------Punishment

Elite 3: Diabolist-------------------Demon Shroud----------------Hammer---------------Tricks

Elite 4: Death Stalker------------Soul Burst ---------------------Rifle--------------------Mantras

[Klypto.1703]

These would be somewhat okay for pve only specs but as far as across game modes they are pretty down right horrible. Biggest design flaw in things only designed for pve content is the stationary aspects of objects and npc objects that are destroyed by 50+ people running over them and/or having to always be in one spot at all times. So as it stands much anything involving a longbow, traps, anything related to conjured weapons, npc's, banners, etc should just be eliminated from the start, Reminds me so much of scourge shades vs renegade charr spirits. The shades have always been way more OP but never have had health to kill but could finally be actually interrupted but you take renegade far less useful skills that you can basically kill in one hit so easily interrupted. So more of that kinda crap just isn't good for the game not sure if anet will need a third expansion of this to find out it is still a horrible idea or not.

[Gustavolm.7308]

the Bard Specialization would be perfect for the warrior:

A character tells his victory histories and that now he abandons his hunger for blood, preferring to play his guitar and spread joy.

[Jski.6180]

Weaver has nothing to do with Glyph. I would love to see an arcane base ele beyond what we have now.

[Eddy.7051]

> @"Jski.6180" said:

> Weaver has nothing to do with Glyph.

 

Glyphs are all about adapting to changing attunements. Weaver is all about adapting to changing attunments. Tempests do not expand any further than the core Elementalist with the theme of changing attunements, and Tempests actually stay in attunement to use their Overload abilities.

 

Various Weaver stances adapt to attunements, Weaver Dual Attacks are the penultimate attunement adaptation, and Weaver traits involve attunement swapping and changing stats based on the attunement. Do you still think Weaver shares no themes in common with Glyphs?

[SkyCakeLight.3750]

The two that I would personally want for Engineer is either an espec based around plagues (alchemy) or construction in the mind of themes. The plague thing is just a tie-in with the storyline from Factions. Maybe some people got interested in the whole idea of a plague and decided to study that idea further. Construction is because Keunig City was awful to navigate and I hope they brought in some experts to fix the place up! I think a chemical-based spec has the potential to shake things up a bit more thematically for Engi. But, I really want an espec that takes the ideas of turrets and amps them up to make them not only useful, but more interact-able and interesting. I don't want them to be turrets for the espec, just in the same vein as them. Maybe something like a super-structure than you can continually build on as the fight progresses using a new resource for the Engineer that is generated in-combat. Also, more explosions for the demolition side of construction!

 

I normally try to avoid posting thoughts that go directly against others. But, I will say that the idea of a "Golemancer" does not sound like a fun idea to me. Engineer is already too racially influenced and a spec based around golems is very clearly and explicitly Asuran. Way more racially influenced than Scrapper or Holosmith and I would suggest that even those "cross the line". If Engineer gets a pseudo-pet class, then I would hope that either the summons are per-race in animation or pull entirely from Cantha. They could be the spirit constructs from Cantha.

 

Another idea is to make something akin to World of Warcraft's Glyph system but actually good since WoW's Glyphs are pretty awfully utilized by Blizzard. Make the summons default to Canthan-themed. Then, add a way to skin abilities. In this case, making the summons appeal to other races. This idea could of course extend to other abilities and not all of them have to have individual races in mind. This probably a bit much effort than it's worth. Could be fun!