narcx.3570

They should have at least returned SotM's release level damage... Cuz like, if you are able to hit somebody with this skill now, it means that they are so far below you in skill level that it might as well be a one-shot so that everyone can just move on with their lives faster.

I don't wanna be negative, but these are all super busted-op-strong... I get that it's fun to think up super-strong skills that would let you crush the competition, but some of these are definitely not designed with balance in mind.

> @"Drgnfly.5812" said:

> Shiro - Dark Apostasy

> Your critical hits remove boons. If there are no boons, then the target is tormented.

Crazy OP... The boon rip in PvP/WvW would be insane and the torment on hit would be bonkers for condirens in raids--especially in conjunction with rampant vex and impossible odds.

> Mallyx - Words of Madness

> Target for is dazed, tormented, and slowed. Stun instead of daze if target foe is using a skill.

Depending on energy cost (it would be high's since hard cc's tend to be) this is kinda worse than the existing three skills.

> Jalis - Great Dwarf’s Weapon

> Your weapon attacks have a chance to knock down.

Only a little OP cuz the rest of Jalis is nothing to write home about... But it would just be annoying and cheap in competitive modes.

> Ventari - Ronan’s Harrow

> Drag the tablet across the ground creating a line that slows and cripples foes and gives quickness and swiftness to allies.

Super-duper OP... And would make Rev's a one stop shop for quickness/alacrity/heals, freeing up a compositional slot for another dps in fractals and raids. (Similar to how chrono's were a bunch of nerfs ago)

> Glint - Move Facet of Nature to utility slot. Grant Ancient Echo to Heralds.

This is a nerf/useless since Heralds don't need energy restore and you'd be losing Facet of Nature's functionality in non-Glint legends, which is where it's active is the strongest.

> Kalla - No change due to her Citadel Orders.

No comment, but don't get why this would negate a 4th utility since it's a base skill not a Kalla legend skill... And if citadel was moved to a kalla utility, t'd be a straight nerf for shiro/mallyx.

> @"Taygus.4571" said:

> I really struggle with rotation..and sadly my dps on raids is 12k-20k depending on class and boss.

>

For a lot of bosses and groups this is normal... Remember boss numbers are not benchmarks and lots of bosses have phases where you're doing 0 dps to them... And if your group phases slowly, this will effect your dps even more. For example, if your group has hyper-quick split phases during VG, it will be pretty easy to get close to 26-27k on that fight, but if the split takes longer, you could have performed exactly the same personally, but your end numbers will be like 20-22 simply because there was a longer period where you couldn't attack the boss.

If yer ending a fight at 20k in a pug group, yer actually doing pretty decent (unless it's like KC/Cairn/MO/SH/CA).

> @"Scoobaniec.9561" said:

> Yechnically speaking with the expection of engineer all classes have 5 types of utilities with 4 skills in them which result in 20 utilities to choose from (not counting elites).

> Revenant on the other hand has 4 legends with 3 skills resulting in 12 utility skills. The gap gets larger with more elite specs added in

>

> Idk why would some people even argue about adding more utility skills to choose from. We should get either up to 5 skills per legends like engineer or another extra skill+new core legend. Stop defending laziness

It's not laziness, it was by design.

Multiple utilities are an illusion of choice anyways... Everyone uses the same 3 utilities anyways or they get straight boo'd out of their groups/matches.

> @"Alyster.9470" said:

> -Lastly please DONT nerf condition weaver, we are only like 5 people only who play it :(

>

> Thank you.

Condi Weaver bump... It's legit the only class that's even fun to play in raids anymore.

> @"Eugchriss.2046" said:

> I don't find it fair to only have the drawbacks of projectiles' concept without having their advantages.

Except the inherent advantage of being ranged... And in the case of Ice Razor, being a cast and forget dps skill. (Although I suppose you could smack down that argument by pointing out the 20% finisher chance that Rifle Turret gets.)

I think they tend to balance combo finishers around a skill's strength tho... And Icrazor has a 6.0 (!!!!!!!!!!) power scaling coefficient, which is just.... Insanely high.

> @"Ashantara.8731" said:

> > @"hugo.4705" said:

> > > @"Ashantara.8731" said:

> > > > @"hugo.4705" said:

> > > > Sorry if it's already reported bug, but this is urgent. If trying the portal, you are tp away or with a "Tournament timed out" prompt.

> > > >

> > > > Update: Toyacpocalypse instanced/squad is also bugged, only Tixx infinitarium story is working. So consider that everything is broken.

> > >

> > > As I have run into **none** of the above issues, I suggest you repair your GW2 client.

> > I am NOT THE ONLY ONE, all the players in my map are facing them. Thanks for the non constructive answer, don't you see all the others players stacking on me on the screenshot? Stop trolling.

>

> I wasn't trolling, I was assuming and trying to help. I did not pay attention to the other players in your screenshot. (It's also quite non-constructive to insult others for no reason, you know? ;) )

>

> Anyway, I _assume_ relogging did not solve the issue, either? Have read many reports in map chat since your bug report. I hope they'll fix this for you soon.

Yeah, I don't know why that guy got so triggered at you--that screenshot is super inconclusive... There's like 4 people standing there and the chat box is all blacked out.

This thread doesn't even make sense... You say Rev needs more weapon choices because every weapon they have is ether unusable or has been nerfed so hard that it's now grossly underpowered. While that's mostly true'ish, why would the solution to that be "Rev needs more weapons" instead of just making the ones they have useable/given back some of their previous power.

Staff and Sword both used to have crazy burst, but it got removed for balance reasons... WHY would anet give Revs a new weapon to fill the burst role? They would just be simultaneously recreating that problem and making existing weapons even more irrelevant. If anet wanted revs to have more burst, they would just return dps to sotm/ps/ua or re-reduce the cat time of shackling.

Let's be honest and admit that this is secretly just another "Plz let my edgeknight use his Twilight!" thread. :bleep_bloop:

> @"Scoobaniec.9561" said:

> > @"narcx.3570" said:

> > > @"Drgnfly.5812" said:

> > >Revenants are the only class that is locked into a set of 3 utility skills.

> >

> > Except for like, how Revs have access to 6 utility, 2 heals, and 2 elites at once... So technically you are "locked into TWO sets of 3 utility skills," and you can pick which sets those are. You lose a bit of build diversity vs the other classes, but you get to have in-combat access to twice the number of skills... It's a pretty fair trade off--especially when you factor in how those classes with tons of different utility skills to pick from all end up using the same 5-6 anyways cuz the rest are super-garbage.

>

> What twice number of skills? So F keys doesnt matter now? Necromancer doesnt gain 5 extra skills, guardian doesnt access 3 extra utilities called virtues etc?

OP was complaining about being locked into only 3 utility skills, so I left weapon and f-skills out of it and just thought I would point out the trade off going on with Rev Utilities.

> @"Drgnfly.5812" said:

>Revenants are the only class that is locked into a set of 3 utility skills.

Except for like, how Revs have access to 6 utility, 2 heals, and 2 elites at once... So technically you are "locked into TWO sets of 3 utility skills," and you can pick which sets those are. You lose a bit of build diversity vs the other classes, but you get to have in-combat access to twice the number of skills... It's a pretty fair trade off--especially when you factor in how those classes with tons of different utility skills to pick from all end up using the same 5-6 anyways cuz the rest are super-garbage.

> @"Aigleborgne.2981" said:

> Seriously man? PT+PS is your answer in OW??

> Power rev is seriously lacking in AOE options.

It's just one of several combos that you rotate through... I just mentioned that one because of PS's low cool down and the fact that it one shots anything that's not an Elite or Champion.

As for AoE, I don't personally use it, but Vengeful Hammers is always an option... I've just never found a need to use it cuz Elemental Blast does way more damage than it should, leaving everything in a state where you can spread your PS and SW to finish them all (without having to abandon your boi, Shiro), but if you wanna add jalishammers to those 3 things, that's actually a pretty big chunk of aoe output--and that's not even counting if you wanna quickly swap staff for hammer to bring actual, real AoE burst to the table.

But as I said originally (but everyone seems to cut out of their quotes so they can keep arguing), it doesn't really even matter what you play in OW because the stakes are so low. Literally any build will kill anything with little-to-no-risk of you dying... So people should just play what they want. That said, if you are trying to mix/max/tryhard your output and time spent there, you can't ignore condi rev's insanely slow condi ramp up time (slower than any other condi dps class except vs Huge Hitbox)... It's literally what its meta viability is and always has been built around: "Do I have enough time to ramp up my condis, and does the target have enough health to take advantage of that and make it worth it." Again though, since it is open world, if people find it more fun to drop torment on mobs and kite them around in a circle until they die from it, that's there prerogative! Just personally for me, I'd rather instantly delete everything and move on with my day... And if someone asks what the most effective build is for something, I'm gonna point them to the one that kills things the fastest, since that's what basically everything in gw2 pve comes down to.

> @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> > @"narcx.3570" said:

> > > @"Grimp.5624" said:

> > > Ahh right, I actually thought the meta was set tbf.

> > > Are we talking power or condi here?

> >

> > There's not really an "open world meta," things are so low stakes and low difficulty that any build should be obliterating through it, unless you're playing like a pure defensive set-up--BUT EVEN THEN--if that's what you enjoy playing, then it's meta for you because the entire goal of open world content is just to have fun I guess, so what's most-effective-at achieving that goal varies from person to person.

> >

> > If you just want a fine-tuned Rev build to crush open world though, straight Zerker/Scholar Power Herald (sword/sword/staff/hammer to swap for bosses/bounties with Phase Shifted) is the way to go. You can make an argument for Power Renegade or Power Core, but they all generally underperform Herald in a solo play (bring your own boons) environment--especially in the new zone where you can generate your own Quickness with the new mastery.

> >

> > Generally as a Revenant, unless you're really married to the idea of playing one, you want to avoid condi builds in open world... Not to say that they're bad, but condi Rev builds have a really long dps ramp up time and poor burst vs non-huge hitbox, so things will die before you've even peaked your dps--and that is further compounded by the more people that are around.

> >

> >

>

> Not accurate.

> I kill as fast or sometimes with less effort on my condi rev than my zerker rev.

>

> The condi burst happens faster than most think, I also use this build to kill players on wvw when they go lame, I go condi lame as well.

>

> Weaver/tempests/FB just melt, won a 1 vs 5 on marshal stats due healing sustain and applying mass torment and burns due movement nature of pvp combats was constantly ticking 2k 4K at max.

>

> Renegade/Deamon (While using both legend elites u will gain heal per sec (steadfast rejuvenation) plus torment runes will heal u and renegade elite is a vampiric aoe, while can still use other heals :P while aplying mass torment, heals skill from legends will give dome every 20sec) .

> http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PmwAUlflhQLsIajJRaMIKjBSjMBygDzi/zE-zRJYvRNfJ49A-e

The OP's talking open world, not WvW... The mobs in open world have almost no toughness compared to your random wvw player, where power is less effective due to player mitigation weight. You literally can't compare the two game modes and I don't even know why you'd bring it up. That'd be like if somebody was asking about what the best graphic card on the market is and you told them that your Roku TV is great for streaming.

And I'm sorry, no matter how well you coordinate your condi burst, it's still slower then just 1-shotting a trash mob with PT+PS. There's a reason Condi Rev is probably the *worst* dps choice in the fractal meta, and that same principle carries over doubly into open world where the mobs have EVEN LESS hp and there's even MORE people potentially spamming damage on them.

I'm not saying people shouldn't play condi in open world, people can play whatever they want--it's the entire point of the game mode. But to say that your condi roaming build kills things faster in open world than a zerker/scholar setup is just misleading for the sake of being misleading.

> @"Grimp.5624" said:

> Ahh right, I actually thought the meta was set tbf.

> Are we talking power or condi here?

There's not really an "open world meta," things are so low stakes and low difficulty that any build should be obliterating through it, unless you're playing like a pure defensive set-up--BUT EVEN THEN--if that's what you enjoy playing, then it's meta for you because the entire goal of open world content is just to have fun I guess, so what's most-effective-at achieving that goal varies from person to person.

If you just want a fine-tuned Rev build to crush open world though, straight Zerker/Scholar Power Herald (sword/sword/staff/hammer to swap for bosses/bounties with Phase Shifted) is the way to go. You can make an argument for Power Renegade or Power Core, but they all generally underperform Herald in a solo play (bring your own boons) environment--especially in the new zone where you can generate your own Quickness with the new mastery.

Generally as a Revenant, unless you're really married to the idea of playing one, you want to avoid condi builds in open world... Not to say that they're bad, but condi Rev builds have a really long dps ramp up time and poor burst vs non-huge hitbox, so things will die before you've even peaked your dps--and that is further compounded by the more people that are around.

> @"ollbirtan.2915" said:

> > @"narcx.3570" said:

> > In b4 this gets nerfed in a few weeks when anet sees some meme comps with 2 renegades alternating SC for permanent fire field uptime while a bunch of condi dd's spam whirl finishers across it all fight.

>

> You do know that the skill used to work be4, don't you?

It's spent more time not working than working... And when it did work, nobody really played support renegade because they couldn't wrap their heads around firebrigade yet, partly due to no diviners, but more so cuz of a lot of propaganda from Big Chrono.

> @"Trepidation Lost.3469" said:

> Yeah this guy is completely wrong. If they’re changing the ambush on dodge to an f4 skill it will be useless.

Please tell me that's a PvP only change? Because this mechanic is literally what makes mirages mirages... Without heavy ambush play, it's essentially just a condi-shatter-mesmer with better clone generation.

In b4 this gets nerfed in a few weeks when anet sees some meme comps with 2 renegades alternating SC for permanent fire field uptime while a bunch of condi dd's spam whirl finishers across it all fight.

> @"Catchyfx.5768" said:

> Well I tried Herlad Ventari healer in pugs PvP unranked...end hell i feel like I'm mega mind and everything is ez. I was missing every skills because tablet is 2012 :smiley:

> Piano playing ended up runing thru allies and spaming tablet on myself. Heals arent that juicy as i thought they will be. Rev is OK support. reworking herald only kill every possible way to play competitve modes.

Maybe they should give Herald's the "Scourge Treatment," and have a Herald GM trait that triples the tablet radius so it covers an entire capture node. :bleep_bloop:

I don't wat to be a hater, but what would this accomplish?

Revenant already has the highest pure healing output of any class... Keeping people alive is not a problem. In order to be viable within the current state of the game, it would need to bring either some sought after Offensive buff (which it kind of does in the form of Alacrity, but Ren does this better) or in some insanely OP utility like heal Scourge/Tempest's power rez'ing ability.

I guess this could be a little wanted in WvW where the amount of people you can bring is less limited--but you'd be more likely to just seee people running the trait while playing current power Herald hammer dps shenanigans, not really a support spec.

This bug has been around for years off and on... I don't think anet will ever be able to fully fix it--it comes and goes with certain patches in a seemingly random fashion, which makes it kind of clear that they still don't know what causes it or how they keep breaking it.

It's for sure super unfortunate in PvP/WvW tho when you quickswap to shiro to PT on somebody, but just riposte away instead... Luckily those game modes are all but dead to me, so whatever. :bleep_bloop:

> @"Temper.2190" said:

> 3. I tend to play the condi herald as a team fighter, sticking mostly to mid fights, or big engagements. The condi herald build feels fairly solid as a duelist, but it seems to me to be best in team fights. Is this right?

Mallyx's strength is 90% about point control, so ya, sticking to team fights is where it will be most effective... Although it still gets super shut down in this regard by FB/Scourge duo's. If you're getting out point-pressured tho, it's not super hopeless, you can still just spam Banish on whatever the called focus target is to ensure the kill.

> @"Virdo.1540" said:

> > @"Julius Seizure.4985" said:

> > > @"Virdo.1540" said:

> > > > @"Julius Seizure.4985" said:

> > > > This skill is not a channel ability. The reason it misses foes that stealth during its animation is because each of the 5 attacks will retarget a new foe, or follow the same foe if just 1 is in range. Stealth makes you unable to be seen or targeted, so that obviously is the counter. A true channel ability does not recalculate targets between damage ticks in this game— think Rapid Fire or Ghastly Claws.

> > > >

> > > > Good news though! If you are a Herald, cast Gaze of Darkness at the beginning of the animation or anytime during it for both additional damage and revealed. They won’t be able to stealth unless a specific deadeye build.

> > >

> > > its not like its still preventing targets to become invisible... the most classes teleport too far away when becoming invisible, so it wont hit anymore

> > >

> > > no need to rely on that

> >

> > Gaze of Darkness 100% prevents targets from becoming invisible, all except for Deadeyes with Shadow Meld as an elite.

> >

> > I am not sure what you are talking about with “teleport too far” breaking the assault, as this skill used to follow targets through a 6,000 range portal last time that was a thing...

>

> they changed it... they get "revealed" if u hit them with Gaze of Darkness when being invisible. If u hit them while they are still visible, they arent going to be revealed and are not being prevented in becoming invis

GoD not working vs non-stealthed targets was a bug that they fixed last update?

> @"anduriell.6280" said:

> It is the only chanelled skill which doesnt follow targets who stealth. Every other chanelled skill in game follow the target, and this one behaves almost the same following the target thru teleports and leaps, but as soon as the target goes into stealth the skill is stopped.

>

> May i ask why is that? Wouldnt be better for balance and consistency if the skill would follow the target like any other chanelled skill?

Obviously this is not always true/best case scenario... But it's almost always worth it to use Gaze of Darkness during your offensive UA's vs thiefs/mezes. This will prevent them from stealthing (except deadeye's elite skill), and the ua will 'follow' them if they teleport. It's a really good two-pronged shutdown to ensure kills vs them.

> @"Shao.7236" said:

> > @"narcx.3570" said:

> None of that removes it, the player is shadowstepping with the condition still running down the time left.

>

>

Technically it doesn't cleanse the condi, but it functionally "removes" immob due to how skills that stack immob work.

> @"Virdo.1540" said:

> I got an idea to improve the revenant a tiny bit, which also lines up with its logic.

> What about making all skills the turns the Rev into mist being able to remove the chains of immobilize?

> Like Sword 3, Staff 5, Axe 4, Dodge (with resistance)

>

> It would be very helpful due to revs incredibly bad cleansing and would make much more sense ,cuz mist cant be chained down.

Sword 3 does free you from immob (assuming there's something in range to use it on), as does Sword 5... I *think* axe 4 does too, but I honestly haven't used that skill in so long, it might not. :bleep_bloop:

> @"Shao.7236" said:

> > @"narcx.3570" said:

> Giving Mallyx a non-boon is a bad idea, it's already strong as it is. Giving Dwarf the same treatment is also a bad idea because of the isolation of effect.

>

> Giving CC immunity up to 5 players in a form non counter-able buff with Stability already available on demand.. I'd prefer that we actually fix the glaring issues of the skill first rather than jump right away into overwhelmingly strong ideas.

>

> Buffs mechanics needs to be unified so that we can improve them, being stuck with 2 seconds of unchangeable Resistance would suck, so much for Dwarf as well because that's not the actual issue right now with the skill.

Should clarify that I meant these nonboon buffs would be self only, it would obviously be too strong to give your whole group immunty to cc or condis...

And Mallyx is only strong against people who can't kite/strip properly.