narcx.3570
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> @Zenith.7301 said:
> > @narcx.3570 said:
> > > @Zenith.7301 said:
> > > > @narcx.3570 said:
> > > >
> > > > > @Zenith.7301 said:
> > > > > > @narcx.3570 said:
> > > > > > > @Zenith.7301 said:
> > > > > > > > @narcx.3570 said:
> > > > > > > > > @Solori.6025 said:
> > > > > > > > > > @dchsknight.3042 said:
> > > > > > > > > > > @Zenith.7301 said:
> > > > > > > > > > > Something needs to change with the class. So long as we have no means of generating energy without legend swap, the class will be stuck using a single utility and then autoattacking till weaponswap is back.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > The spec also has serious lack of access to boons unless gaining access to Glint. This is what makes core rev such a nonstarter in most builds. You're supposed to be using each legend for their situational utility, but all we do right now is swap to a legend, use a single utility that empties our energy bar as we autoattack, then be forced to swap to another legend even if that other legend has marginal benefit for the current situation.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > This is particularly egregious with the staff weapon, which has such large costs on all its skills, two of them utterly mediocre (skills 2 and 4 are way too weak). Worse, staff's autoattack is anemic in DPS, and the rationale is that it offers healing, but the healing fragments spawned by the autoattack are absurdly undertuned.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > We're talking about 300-400 hp per completed autoattack chain. That is nothing for placing such a massive penalty on the autoattack's DPS.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > All revenant power builds are weak for this reason. You've massively nerfed the autoattack DPS options of the revenant in PvE, and the skills that used to hit hard like unrelenting assault have been castrated and put on longer cooldowns because there was no split balancing.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > The easiest solution to bringing in PvE class balance is to do a balance pass on autoattack DPS across all class weapons to establish a baseline as a safety net, then look at individual keystone skills like unrelenting assault, gravedigger, maul, and bring those up to the level of currently competitive weapons like thief staff and guardian greatsword.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Why would you use staff on a clear condition spec?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > And all power builds are weak? You must not actually play Revenant. Power shiro is a beast...
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Compared to a lot of other Power builds, Power Shiro is a hindrance and you would be better bringing a Warrior or a DH
> > > > > > > > > That's not saying it's bad, just worse than a lot of other power builds, and has been for a while now.
> > > > > > > > > One of the biggest issues is, Power Rev folds under any type of condi pressure, and we are moving into (Probably) a condi/power Hybrid meta with the introduction of PoF and griever stats.
> > > > > > > > > Speaking of PoF, most of the new elite specs leave power shiro in the dirt.
> > > > > > > > > Something to consider because the future for rev is pretty bleak
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > This... ^^^
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The only reason Shiro seems weak compared to War or DH is the lack of cleanse... It has nothing to do with their damage output or energy cost restrictions. If Shiro Rev's didn't have to avoid literally every incoming condibomb or instantly die, they would insanely destroy those other classes. I mean, when have you ever lost to a power War/DH 1v1? 0.o It's when you're in a team fight and a condi teef, giggling at his keyboard, steal bombs you from behind a pillar 1200 away that you feel weak.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > And it's only going to get worse for all revenant specs, not just power... PoF has so many new insane condi bomb builds, and our only defense against them is being indirectly nerfed by all the boon strip classes also being added.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I'm talking PvE, and no power rev doesn't even come close to those in DPS.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Power rev is doing miserably because of all the pvp related nerfs to their autoattack DPS, unrelenting assault's nerf to damage and cooldown, and the nerf to facet of nature.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Who's letting Power Warrior's play PvE?!?!
> > > > >
> > > > > A group that doesn't have the condi version for PS.
> > > > >
> > > > > Power warrior may be bad DPS, but PS+ banners is still immense raid DPS that a power revenant doesn't even get close to matching.
> > > > >
> > > > > A warrior of any PS variant is increasing the raid DPS by 25%+.
> > > >
> > > > Rev's aren't even competing for the might share support spot though, so that's a crazy comparison to try and make...
> > > >
> > > > Also, if you're so concerned with your group's composition that you're ruling out dps Revs, you should also automatically be ruling out power PS's... The gap between a power PS and a CPS or Condi Might Share Ele is much bigger than the difference between an ele/dh and a dps rev is.
> > >
> > > They're not competing for it because anet demolished glint over several patches, and PS warrior has gone untouched because nobody uses PS+banners in PvP, which is what they obviously balance around. If any spec should compete with warrior for might and fury sharing, it should bloody well be Herald considering it's the boon centric elite spec.
> > >
> > > And please let's not conflate all revenant DPS specs. Power revenant in gw2raid logs is doing just as abysmal as power warrior. Except power warrior still offers something with banners whereas revenants offers only a 225 ferocity aura, a far worse version of banner of discipline+empower allies.
> > >
> > >
> > The only change they made to Glint that "demolished" rev's was nerfing Natural Resonance... And Honestly, that had nothing to do with PvP.
> >
> > It also happened in the same patch that nerfed SoI. So I mean, with SoI losing it's ability to share stacks of boons, the chrono/PS/Rev meta was gone whether they nerfed Rev or not, since you now needed 4 slots just for the Quickness/Might uptime and Rev wasn't there for it's individual DPS anyways.
> >
> > And I can't speak to gw2raidlogs, but I assume that's a pretty inaccurate source for true benchmark numbers? As far as I've seen, power rev is a solid 9k above power war... But I mean, yeah, it's still a sub 30k benchmark so it's whatever.
>
> .....what the kitten? Benchmark numbers will never be as accurate as actual statistical analysis on raid logs.
>
> That's like saying Simcraft in WoW would be more accurate than looking at wowlogs. Raid logs show the average performance under actual raid scenarios of any given spec.
>
> And the nerfs that demolished rev started long before the nerf to facet of nature.
>
> 20%+ nerf to autoattacks. Same nerf for Unrelenting assault on top of increased cd, shifting a bit of that damage to sword 2 but it's a far worse trade anyways. These were all PvP derived nerfs.
>
> Facet of Nature nerf was a nerf specifically due to WvW (which is still pvp as much as people like to pretend it isn't), people were whining mesmers and revenants were stacking infinite resistance.
Except combined statistical analysis also factors in all the mouth breathers playing that spec with bad mechanics and rotations. Whereas a benchmark shows you the highest threshold that a class can be pushed to. I'd take my max number to aim for instead of some mean number based on everyone from the good to the truly bad any day.
Hearing, "Oh don't worry, 17k is actually okay for Cairn" is not what I aim to achieve when I actually get to dps instead of chrono/druiding.
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> @Quget.1670 said:
> Resistance is useless skill against condi anyway....
> It get's corrupted or stripped easily :)
>
> Revenant's only utility skill against condi and its bad :'(
It's decent if you're using Herald to blanket it. (For the time being)
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I mean, it's clear they had the least work put into Renegade at the time of the demo weekend, so maaaaaaybe, with that extra month and a half of work it'll be a little closer to what all the other classes are getting.
BUT, that said, what renegade brings to the table does nothing to address any of the major problems with Revenant. And a lot of those problems are only going to be more glaring when some of the other new elite specs enter the game. (Those new Condibomb and Boon rip spam elites are going to just ruin us in pvp)
And all in all, it's just a bad design standpoint... The other classes elite specs, take their core abilities, and augment them in some new and interesting way. Revenants just get... a different stance to pick from and a new buff. It's like rather than have Herald/Renegade take core revenant and enhance it in a way that makes it feel elite and well tied together, they are just there to do most of the heavy lifting while you use your core legends to refill your energy. Hardly the same as, say an elementalist getting new ways to interact with their attunements, or a warrior getting new ways to spend adrenaline and use bursts, or a necro getting different forms of their shroud, or a mesmer getting new ways to use their clones/phantasms, or... etc... We're literally the only profession who's elite spec doesn't really affect our core and just lazily tacks something extra onto the end.
As far as raiding goes, it'll for sure be a dps upgrade to both condi and power revenant, but we'll have to wait and see if it'll even come close to hanging with how insane the other elite specs are in dps right now... It probably will not. And, I can *maybe* see some groups going 1 druid/1 ventari renegade instead of 2 druids in Condi Compositions. Aside from that, I don't think it's going to zomg-change-the-meta. Firebrand + Renegade won't be more efficient than a single chrono for quickness/alacrity, since the renegade would have to dedicate 100% of their energy consumption to keeping that alacrity up. Maybe if they added a PvE trait where when you gain Kalla's Fervour you pulse 1 second of alacrity to your sub or something, then maybe it could work... But that's pretty op, so I wouldn't expect our alacrity generation to see any boosts to make it competitive.
In conclusion, I would love to be wrong, obviously... But I think Renegade is just going to be another eye-roll in a long series of Revenant's not finding their place in the game eye-rolls. And PvP/WvW Core Rev/Herald is going to have a REAL rough time vs the invasion of spellbreakers/scourges/holo's/firebrands/mirages that are coming.
Maybe there'll be some new PoF Rune who's 6 set bonus is "Where you gain Kalla's Fervour, you instantly deal 30,000 damage to any nearby raid bosses." Then we'll be solid gold! :dissapointed:
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> @Aoi.8570 said:
> > @ibkillin.9610 said:
> > Don't hold your breath, I've experienced at least 12 matches this season where I get stuck in the terrain and have to log out and back in to basically fix it giving me dishonor and an auto 30 second respawn timer. Usually that costs my team the game.
>
> Same, I got stuck in a wall at Skyhammer 3 times now, always need to re-log or wait for enemy to kill me (what never happens because well - it's an advantage for them).
One of the pro's of playing revenant is you can Phase Traversal out being stuck because your target doesn't actually have to be in range to teleport towards them.
Then again, all of our STILL glitchy patting gets us stuck all the time, so I guess it's needed. :pensive:
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> @Zenith.7301 said:
> > @narcx.3570 said:
> >
> > > @Zenith.7301 said:
> > > > @narcx.3570 said:
> > > > > @Zenith.7301 said:
> > > > > > @narcx.3570 said:
> > > > > > > @Solori.6025 said:
> > > > > > > > @dchsknight.3042 said:
> > > > > > > > > @Zenith.7301 said:
> > > > > > > > > Something needs to change with the class. So long as we have no means of generating energy without legend swap, the class will be stuck using a single utility and then autoattacking till weaponswap is back.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The spec also has serious lack of access to boons unless gaining access to Glint. This is what makes core rev such a nonstarter in most builds. You're supposed to be using each legend for their situational utility, but all we do right now is swap to a legend, use a single utility that empties our energy bar as we autoattack, then be forced to swap to another legend even if that other legend has marginal benefit for the current situation.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > This is particularly egregious with the staff weapon, which has such large costs on all its skills, two of them utterly mediocre (skills 2 and 4 are way too weak). Worse, staff's autoattack is anemic in DPS, and the rationale is that it offers healing, but the healing fragments spawned by the autoattack are absurdly undertuned.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > We're talking about 300-400 hp per completed autoattack chain. That is nothing for placing such a massive penalty on the autoattack's DPS.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > All revenant power builds are weak for this reason. You've massively nerfed the autoattack DPS options of the revenant in PvE, and the skills that used to hit hard like unrelenting assault have been castrated and put on longer cooldowns because there was no split balancing.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The easiest solution to bringing in PvE class balance is to do a balance pass on autoattack DPS across all class weapons to establish a baseline as a safety net, then look at individual keystone skills like unrelenting assault, gravedigger, maul, and bring those up to the level of currently competitive weapons like thief staff and guardian greatsword.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Why would you use staff on a clear condition spec?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > And all power builds are weak? You must not actually play Revenant. Power shiro is a beast...
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Compared to a lot of other Power builds, Power Shiro is a hindrance and you would be better bringing a Warrior or a DH
> > > > > > > That's not saying it's bad, just worse than a lot of other power builds, and has been for a while now.
> > > > > > > One of the biggest issues is, Power Rev folds under any type of condi pressure, and we are moving into (Probably) a condi/power Hybrid meta with the introduction of PoF and griever stats.
> > > > > > > Speaking of PoF, most of the new elite specs leave power shiro in the dirt.
> > > > > > > Something to consider because the future for rev is pretty bleak
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This... ^^^
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The only reason Shiro seems weak compared to War or DH is the lack of cleanse... It has nothing to do with their damage output or energy cost restrictions. If Shiro Rev's didn't have to avoid literally every incoming condibomb or instantly die, they would insanely destroy those other classes. I mean, when have you ever lost to a power War/DH 1v1? 0.o It's when you're in a team fight and a condi teef, giggling at his keyboard, steal bombs you from behind a pillar 1200 away that you feel weak.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > And it's only going to get worse for all revenant specs, not just power... PoF has so many new insane condi bomb builds, and our only defense against them is being indirectly nerfed by all the boon strip classes also being added.
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm talking PvE, and no power rev doesn't even come close to those in DPS.
> > > > >
> > > > > Power rev is doing miserably because of all the pvp related nerfs to their autoattack DPS, unrelenting assault's nerf to damage and cooldown, and the nerf to facet of nature.
> > > >
> > > > Who's letting Power Warrior's play PvE?!?!
> > >
> > > A group that doesn't have the condi version for PS.
> > >
> > > Power warrior may be bad DPS, but PS+ banners is still immense raid DPS that a power revenant doesn't even get close to matching.
> > >
> > > A warrior of any PS variant is increasing the raid DPS by 25%+.
> >
> > Rev's aren't even competing for the might share support spot though, so that's a crazy comparison to try and make...
> >
> > Also, if you're so concerned with your group's composition that you're ruling out dps Revs, you should also automatically be ruling out power PS's... The gap between a power PS and a CPS or Condi Might Share Ele is much bigger than the difference between an ele/dh and a dps rev is.
>
> They're not competing for it because anet demolished glint over several patches, and PS warrior has gone untouched because nobody uses PS+banners in PvP, which is what they obviously balance around. If any spec should compete with warrior for might and fury sharing, it should bloody well be Herald considering it's the boon centric elite spec.
>
> And please let's not conflate all revenant DPS specs. Power revenant in gw2raid logs is doing just as abysmal as power warrior. Except power warrior still offers something with banners whereas revenants offers only a 225 ferocity aura, a far worse version of banner of discipline+empower allies.
>
>
The only change they made to Glint that "demolished" rev's was nerfing Natural Resonance... And Honestly, that had nothing to do with PvP.
It also happened in the same patch that nerfed SoI. So I mean, with SoI losing it's ability to share stacks of boons, the chrono/PS/Rev meta was gone whether they nerfed Rev or not, since you now needed 4 slots just for the Quickness/Might uptime and Rev wasn't there for it's individual DPS anyways.
And I can't speak to gw2raidlogs, but I assume that's a pretty inaccurate source for true benchmark numbers? As far as I've seen, power rev is a solid 9k above power war... But I mean, yeah, it's still a sub 30k benchmark so it's whatever.
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If you crash or d/c, come back, and still win the game in Ranked, you shouldn't get 10 minutes of dishonor... Especially with how craptastically crashy the client has been since the 8/8 PoF rebrand.
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> @LucianDK.8615 said:
> I know geo triggers on both legend swapping and weapon swapping. But surely optimal geo use doesnt require you to swap to offset constantly? That would loose you a lot of dps moves from equipping staff.
Geo triggers off of both, but it has a global cooldown, so you can't double proc a geomancy sigil twice in the same 9 second period--even if it's from a second sigil. So if you have it on one of your weapons you can get maximum procs from just legend swapping and never even have to swap your weapons.
But you're right that double swapping is a powerful mechanic that should be taken advantage of, so most raiding rev's use Mace/Axe with malice/geomancy and then have a second axe with a hydromancy sigil for double swapping.
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> @Zenith.7301 said:
> > @narcx.3570 said:
> > > @Zenith.7301 said:
> > > > @narcx.3570 said:
> > > > > @Solori.6025 said:
> > > > > > @dchsknight.3042 said:
> > > > > > > @Zenith.7301 said:
> > > > > > > Something needs to change with the class. So long as we have no means of generating energy without legend swap, the class will be stuck using a single utility and then autoattacking till weaponswap is back.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The spec also has serious lack of access to boons unless gaining access to Glint. This is what makes core rev such a nonstarter in most builds. You're supposed to be using each legend for their situational utility, but all we do right now is swap to a legend, use a single utility that empties our energy bar as we autoattack, then be forced to swap to another legend even if that other legend has marginal benefit for the current situation.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > This is particularly egregious with the staff weapon, which has such large costs on all its skills, two of them utterly mediocre (skills 2 and 4 are way too weak). Worse, staff's autoattack is anemic in DPS, and the rationale is that it offers healing, but the healing fragments spawned by the autoattack are absurdly undertuned.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > We're talking about 300-400 hp per completed autoattack chain. That is nothing for placing such a massive penalty on the autoattack's DPS.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > All revenant power builds are weak for this reason. You've massively nerfed the autoattack DPS options of the revenant in PvE, and the skills that used to hit hard like unrelenting assault have been castrated and put on longer cooldowns because there was no split balancing.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The easiest solution to bringing in PvE class balance is to do a balance pass on autoattack DPS across all class weapons to establish a baseline as a safety net, then look at individual keystone skills like unrelenting assault, gravedigger, maul, and bring those up to the level of currently competitive weapons like thief staff and guardian greatsword.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Why would you use staff on a clear condition spec?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > And all power builds are weak? You must not actually play Revenant. Power shiro is a beast...
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Compared to a lot of other Power builds, Power Shiro is a hindrance and you would be better bringing a Warrior or a DH
> > > > > That's not saying it's bad, just worse than a lot of other power builds, and has been for a while now.
> > > > > One of the biggest issues is, Power Rev folds under any type of condi pressure, and we are moving into (Probably) a condi/power Hybrid meta with the introduction of PoF and griever stats.
> > > > > Speaking of PoF, most of the new elite specs leave power shiro in the dirt.
> > > > > Something to consider because the future for rev is pretty bleak
> > > >
> > > > This... ^^^
> > > >
> > > > The only reason Shiro seems weak compared to War or DH is the lack of cleanse... It has nothing to do with their damage output or energy cost restrictions. If Shiro Rev's didn't have to avoid literally every incoming condibomb or instantly die, they would insanely destroy those other classes. I mean, when have you ever lost to a power War/DH 1v1? 0.o It's when you're in a team fight and a condi teef, giggling at his keyboard, steal bombs you from behind a pillar 1200 away that you feel weak.
> > > >
> > > > And it's only going to get worse for all revenant specs, not just power... PoF has so many new insane condi bomb builds, and our only defense against them is being indirectly nerfed by all the boon strip classes also being added.
> > >
> > > I'm talking PvE, and no power rev doesn't even come close to those in DPS.
> > >
> > > Power rev is doing miserably because of all the pvp related nerfs to their autoattack DPS, unrelenting assault's nerf to damage and cooldown, and the nerf to facet of nature.
> >
> > Who's letting Power Warrior's play PvE?!?!
>
> A group that doesn't have the condi version for PS.
>
> Power warrior may be bad DPS, but PS+ banners is still immense raid DPS that a power revenant doesn't even get close to matching.
>
> A warrior of any PS variant is increasing the raid DPS by 25%+.
Rev's aren't even competing for the might share support spot though, so that's a crazy comparison to try and make...
Also, if you're so concerned with your group's composition that you're ruling out dps Revs, you should also automatically be ruling out power PS's... The gap between a power PS and a CPS or Condi Might Share Ele is much bigger than the difference between an ele/dh and a dps rev is.
-
New stat combinations have been showing up on old legendaries, but not in old select-a-stat boxes... Like, you can't pick Seraphs from any of the wing 1-3 drops. I'd imagine it'll be the same, but hey, there's always the mystic forge.
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> @Zenith.7301 said:
> > @narcx.3570 said:
> > > @Solori.6025 said:
> > > > @dchsknight.3042 said:
> > > > > @Zenith.7301 said:
> > > > > Something needs to change with the class. So long as we have no means of generating energy without legend swap, the class will be stuck using a single utility and then autoattacking till weaponswap is back.
> > > > >
> > > > > The spec also has serious lack of access to boons unless gaining access to Glint. This is what makes core rev such a nonstarter in most builds. You're supposed to be using each legend for their situational utility, but all we do right now is swap to a legend, use a single utility that empties our energy bar as we autoattack, then be forced to swap to another legend even if that other legend has marginal benefit for the current situation.
> > > > >
> > > > > This is particularly egregious with the staff weapon, which has such large costs on all its skills, two of them utterly mediocre (skills 2 and 4 are way too weak). Worse, staff's autoattack is anemic in DPS, and the rationale is that it offers healing, but the healing fragments spawned by the autoattack are absurdly undertuned.
> > > > >
> > > > > We're talking about 300-400 hp per completed autoattack chain. That is nothing for placing such a massive penalty on the autoattack's DPS.
> > > > >
> > > > > All revenant power builds are weak for this reason. You've massively nerfed the autoattack DPS options of the revenant in PvE, and the skills that used to hit hard like unrelenting assault have been castrated and put on longer cooldowns because there was no split balancing.
> > > > >
> > > > > The easiest solution to bringing in PvE class balance is to do a balance pass on autoattack DPS across all class weapons to establish a baseline as a safety net, then look at individual keystone skills like unrelenting assault, gravedigger, maul, and bring those up to the level of currently competitive weapons like thief staff and guardian greatsword.
> > > >
> > > > Why would you use staff on a clear condition spec?
> > > >
> > > > And all power builds are weak? You must not actually play Revenant. Power shiro is a beast...
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > Compared to a lot of other Power builds, Power Shiro is a hindrance and you would be better bringing a Warrior or a DH
> > > That's not saying it's bad, just worse than a lot of other power builds, and has been for a while now.
> > > One of the biggest issues is, Power Rev folds under any type of condi pressure, and we are moving into (Probably) a condi/power Hybrid meta with the introduction of PoF and griever stats.
> > > Speaking of PoF, most of the new elite specs leave power shiro in the dirt.
> > > Something to consider because the future for rev is pretty bleak
> >
> > This... ^^^
> >
> > The only reason Shiro seems weak compared to War or DH is the lack of cleanse... It has nothing to do with their damage output or energy cost restrictions. If Shiro Rev's didn't have to avoid literally every incoming condibomb or instantly die, they would insanely destroy those other classes. I mean, when have you ever lost to a power War/DH 1v1? 0.o It's when you're in a team fight and a condi teef, giggling at his keyboard, steal bombs you from behind a pillar 1200 away that you feel weak.
> >
> > And it's only going to get worse for all revenant specs, not just power... PoF has so many new insane condi bomb builds, and our only defense against them is being indirectly nerfed by all the boon strip classes also being added.
>
> I'm talking PvE, and no power rev doesn't even come close to those in DPS.
>
> Power rev is doing miserably because of all the pvp related nerfs to their autoattack DPS, unrelenting assault's nerf to damage and cooldown, and the nerf to facet of nature.
Who's letting Power Warrior's play PvE?!?!
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> @maxray.8452 said:
> hey have just got my acended weapons on my dragonhunter but i was think that with PoF only 9 days away is it woth it to put agony into my weapons i try to build up my agony to get into higher lvl fractals as i hav only done t1(24) as the highest dont have acended armor yet but full rings amulet and so on
If it's all you have, go for it, but generally you want to infuse your accessories and armor first, because you only have your weapon infusions active if you don't swap out of them.
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I gotta disagree with that... Condi duration is sort of a wasted stat in team fights (which is where a condi rev should be), since everyone is puking out AoE cleanses for their teams. Whereas power will always be useful in any situation, because it covers your damage output against cleanse spam just as your condi's cover your direct damage against toughness stacking/protection.
The end game stats don't segregate them anymore, so it's more difficult to quantify the impact since you can't see the power vs condi dmg numbers at the end of every game anymore, but Condirevs still put out a surprising amount of power damage with Mace and it's chaining. And add in to that that you're probably also running sword for the iframes/chill, so you'll still able to apply some pressure when swapped to your more defensive set.
I mean your power damage in Sage/Leadership isn't going to burst anyone down in a second with only the little bit of ferocity your runes give you, but with the free 40% crit from Invocation and all the Might you're stacking, it does add up. And it's more of a sustain/consistent damage/Celestial Lite play style anyways. I dunno, often you end up top damage tho, unless you've been forced into playing the decap game with the other team's thief for the bulk of the game.
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> @Solori.6025 said:
> > @dchsknight.3042 said:
> > > @Zenith.7301 said:
> > > Something needs to change with the class. So long as we have no means of generating energy without legend swap, the class will be stuck using a single utility and then autoattacking till weaponswap is back.
> > >
> > > The spec also has serious lack of access to boons unless gaining access to Glint. This is what makes core rev such a nonstarter in most builds. You're supposed to be using each legend for their situational utility, but all we do right now is swap to a legend, use a single utility that empties our energy bar as we autoattack, then be forced to swap to another legend even if that other legend has marginal benefit for the current situation.
> > >
> > > This is particularly egregious with the staff weapon, which has such large costs on all its skills, two of them utterly mediocre (skills 2 and 4 are way too weak). Worse, staff's autoattack is anemic in DPS, and the rationale is that it offers healing, but the healing fragments spawned by the autoattack are absurdly undertuned.
> > >
> > > We're talking about 300-400 hp per completed autoattack chain. That is nothing for placing such a massive penalty on the autoattack's DPS.
> > >
> > > All revenant power builds are weak for this reason. You've massively nerfed the autoattack DPS options of the revenant in PvE, and the skills that used to hit hard like unrelenting assault have been castrated and put on longer cooldowns because there was no split balancing.
> > >
> > > The easiest solution to bringing in PvE class balance is to do a balance pass on autoattack DPS across all class weapons to establish a baseline as a safety net, then look at individual keystone skills like unrelenting assault, gravedigger, maul, and bring those up to the level of currently competitive weapons like thief staff and guardian greatsword.
> >
> > Why would you use staff on a clear condition spec?
> >
> > And all power builds are weak? You must not actually play Revenant. Power shiro is a beast...
> >
> >
>
> Compared to a lot of other Power builds, Power Shiro is a hindrance and you would be better bringing a Warrior or a DH
> That's not saying it's bad, just worse than a lot of other power builds, and has been for a while now.
> One of the biggest issues is, Power Rev folds under any type of condi pressure, and we are moving into (Probably) a condi/power Hybrid meta with the introduction of PoF and griever stats.
> Speaking of PoF, most of the new elite specs leave power shiro in the dirt.
> Something to consider because the future for rev is pretty bleak
This... ^^^
The only reason Shiro seems weak compared to War or DH is the lack of cleanse... It has nothing to do with their damage output or energy cost restrictions. If Shiro Rev's didn't have to avoid literally every incoming condibomb or instantly die, they would insanely destroy those other classes. I mean, when have you ever lost to a power War/DH 1v1? 0.o It's when you're in a team fight and a condi teef, giggling at his keyboard, steal bombs you from behind a pillar 1200 away that you feel weak.
And it's only going to get worse for all revenant specs, not just power... PoF has so many new insane condi bomb builds, and our only defense against them is being indirectly nerfed by all the boon strip classes also being added.
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I use Sage, and it's pretty great. Turns you into even more of a brawler.
But yeah, I would use Carrion over Deadshot... Deadshot is horrible for Rev's IMO, it's a runeset for shortbow/scepter users (super low end direct weapon damage).
Is Renegade really going to be that bad...?
in Revenant
Posted
> @LucianDK.8615 said:
> yeah, looks quite unlikely that renegades will play much different from current condi revs, kalla is just a straight up upgrade to condi rev, since she allows us to pair two condi legends. I heard the bleed spirit is pretty good, so im going to take advantage of it for sure. and I dearly miss not having a ranged wep as condi, will be sweet for sure. Jalis is going -out!- Maybe anet will surprise us and buffs shortbow to be primary weapon viable. That would sure make for a different playstyle.
I'm not convinced the Bleed spirit in it's last seen state would beat the torment generated from Jalis hammer strikes... But we'll see. Maybe in Kalla, Bleed spirit + now is when you have the energy for orbital bombardment will beat it tho.