Buran.3796
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Posts posted by Buran.3796
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> @narcx.3570 said:
> Dueling with condi rev is kind of stupid though... You can certainly do it, and beat people I guess if you're that much better than them, but most of a condi rev's strength lies in point pressure and aoe, which doesn't matter in a duel where there's no penalty for simply moving off of the node.
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And again, every PvP team with some degree of success in the last year using Revenant chose to run the power build. Condi Rev didn't have a place in competitive tournaments since the times in which teams can double a class and we saw two Revs of the same team insta-bursting foes with a synchronized axe #4 (before the nerfs). I also think that the buffs to condi Rev don't fill the hole that the nerfs to Retribution made in October of 2016.
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> @otto.5684 said:
> > @Buran.3796 said:
> > > @otto.5684 said:
> > > Condi Rev is pretty good. Power, not so much.
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> > Look at the tournaments, is the other way around.
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> We already know that in competitive scene power rev is used more often due to AOE CC and boon dump. If you are playing with an organized team competing in a tournament, sure go power, assuming you enjoy being boon bot and AOE CC bot.
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> Every where else PvP wise condi rev is much better. TBH, even in PvE.
We saw some 1 vs 1 tournaments casted by Jebro which ended with a power Revenant beating all clases (including hard counetrs as condi Mesmers and Necros), you can check those in Youtube. I never saw a condi Revenant wining a relevant tournament. If you search Revenant roaming or duelling videos at Youtube the 90%+ of them are from power builds. I do play both condi and power Rev and power Rev is stronger in both duels and small skirmishes, even after the buffs to the mace and the Corruption traitline. Condi Rev is easier to play because has (somewhat) better tools to deal with conditions and can fight with tankier stats, but its skill ceiling is lower and when you fight really good players condi Rev just has no chance, whereas power Rev played at perfection can win vs any class.
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^ I agree in which Deadeye won't replace current DD meta and yes the rifle damage over time is bad... But the spike damage is great and has two cripples, one immobilize, a shadow step and two skills with condi cleanses. Damage ISN'T the main drawback of Renegade's shortbow (albeit is weak), but the fact that any Revenant weapon you replace with sb has better utilities. Rev's hammer is a stronger and better designed peice of weaponry, and even then has very small use in PvP/roaming due it compromises your survability.
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> @Jthug.9506 said:
> Second I can't think of any spec where ranged weapons are more dps than mele against a single target.
Guardian's scepter instantly comes to my mind. The two top current dps builds for PvE raid Guardians do use scepter. Deadeye's rifle, also.
Plus, our "ranged condi weapon" didn't have to be top notch in terms of damage: our staff does mediocre damage and is meta in almost every Revenant build because the tools that provide are extremely useful. We can argue about short bow's damage is better or worse but, where are the tools? Has defensive capabilities? Has mobility? Has cripple, chill, daze, stun or blind in any of their skills? No? Has only a weak aa and a knockdown, but we already had a (cheaper) area pull down in axe #5 with a 900 units range and (go figure) axe #4 has also a 900 unit range and chills!
As I said, a main hand pistol or ranged dagger with decent aa and two empty skills would have given use better service (because sword #4 and #5 are stronger than the ones in the shortbow).
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> @otto.5684 said:
> Condi Rev is pretty good. Power, not so much.
Look at the tournaments, is the other way around.
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> @bhaldor.9837 said:
> But boy Rev seems like a crazy amount of work to perform mediocre in pvp. Is it just me?
> So much easier to do the same amount of work on other classes. or am I missing something Rev excels at?..
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Is very hard to use due power Rev essentially lacks any sort of access to stability and your condition cleasing is heavily compromised (you oftenly find yourselve swapping legend not because you need a clean but just you need the energy, the same happens with the breakstuns oftenly) and the lack of flexibility in the chosen utilities. But played at its best is very rewarding (and competitive) because the high burst damage + AoE cleave/cc.
So yes, you can do better with other classes and less effort, but that's part of the appealing of the class. If you play Mishimas, you need to master the EWGF, is hard but the way it is.
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> @Kodiak.3281 said:
> I guess we can't really complain, we did ask very loudly for a ranged condi weapon.
I disagree. We did ask for a ranged condi weapon, and ANet didn't bring us a ranged condi weapon.
Beacuse using the bow will be a net loss in terms of damage compared to the mace, with also a lot less utility or defense (both axe and off hand sword do provide cc and either a block or a condi spike). So they gave us a weapon with no use. Did we ask loudly a weapon with no use? I don't think so.
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> @ZeftheWicked.3076 said:
> I'm quite hyped for Renegade. PVE wise it's gonna be awesome. Power builds get free 20% crit damage, 33% crit chance, and a legend that actually is doing damage in a raid setting (shiro is negliable damage boost if we are already provided quickness from elsewhere).
> Condi builds get 20% extra condi damage for free with Kalla's Fervor. I wouldn't call that a "mild boost".
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I think that you're missing part of the picture here.
Using the Renegade traitline for the +20% theoretical damage boost with Kalla's Fervor doesn't comes free: has an opportunity cost.
The current "meta" for condi Revenant in PvE raids uses Corruption + Devastation + Invocation. To equip the Renegade traitline you need to discard one of those. Discard Invocation and you will lose a +20% crit chance, a +7% raw damage under fury and a breakstun and 5 secs of fury each time you swap a legend. Discard Devastation and you will lose a +20% bonus damage against foes under their 50% HP, +7% damage vs foes with vulnerability, etc.
So Renegade doesn't magically buffs your damage as a blank gain: it does at the cost of some other damage enhancers.
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In PvP Renegade has no chance: is weaker than condi Herald and condi core Rev. Power Herald MAYBE still will be fine, because half of new specs are really weak in PvP, but the thing is that after two years the best option will be to keep using the same power Herald as day 1 in HoT. Same can be said about roaming.
In PvE the Renegade will be a condition upgrade over the current builds, but with the gameplay being mostly the same. If some new specs do enhance their damage output then Renegade will be back to the start celd. And about the support, Ventari can't beat the healing numbers of a Firebrand.
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> @Cadaveris.8153 said:
> I'm kind of excited for Renegade but I don't know if a power revenant with hammer will be more optimal.
Condition builds probably will be more effective in open PvE due:
* Condition damage utterly ignores any armor the foe has.
* After the latest patches condition Revenant can stack insanely amounts of torment (which now works more like bleed) and the torment + burn damage output is great.
* Albeit power Rev has great cleave damage some of the tools He has are better suited for single foes, whereas mace + axe is mostly an AoE game.
* Conditions let you to land damage and retreat/run in circles staying away from damage; power demands more exposition in order to deliver the damage.
I would start using something like:
...And then after having access to Renegade:
^ Which is more a roaming build but can work wll in PvE with a few changes.
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...But in the Honor traitline. Why? Every other trait related to symbols is in Zeal, except the strongest one (which happens to be a weak traitline). It forces us to either discard Virtues or Valor to get the whole package or to use half of the potential of a symbol based build. Makes little sense, breaks synergies and wastes potential.
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> @FOX.3582 said:
> Oh man, I can't wait to see the drama. Specially the people who are getting one-shot by a Deadeye. I'm gonna be here for some time.
Deadeye was way easier to deal with using my power Rev than the current condi DD. Most of PoF specs seems weaker for the PvP environment than the core/HoT meta builds. Of course will be some exceptions, but some of the current meta builds seems to hard counter the incoming ones.
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Question: if I already have the pieces of the ascended PvP armor, is better to use them to gradually craft the legendary ones using them as part of the recipes or is better to start from zero? I already have 4 sets of heavy ascendant armor, one of them (obtained from PvP) with unasigned stats, and was waiting to PoF to chose the stats, but maybe I could use them towards the crat of the legendary one. Anyway: congrats for the success!
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Deadshot, because Rampant Vex: critical hits had a 33% chance to cause torment; if you have a 100% critrical chance (very easy to obtain with deadshot + Roiling Mists + Brutal Momentum) then 1 of each 3 attacks you do add an extra stack of torment. Carrion is decent but barely adds survability for the damage lost, and Viper is also an option but I found Deadshot the best choice for me.
Renegade Specialization Updates for the Path of Fire Launch
in Revenant
Posted
Not sure if the short bow's #5 change is a downgrade or an enhancement. The other ones doesn't matter to me since I have no plans to use Kalla.