DakotaCoty.5721
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Posts posted by DakotaCoty.5721
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> @"Vault Girl.6792" said:
> Ah, I forgot to mention that groups also require full ascended armor sets and certain runes (I got kicked once just because of "wrong" runes in my armor). For me it's not a problem to get an armor set, and I agree that it's better to have ascended armor due to higher stats. But I find it not reasonable to have a set that you use JUST for raids, because you wouldn't use it in normal PvE. Well, in addition to a character that is used just for raids too.
> So, the necessity to have a certain build + certain armor just for raids kills a lot of fun.
But why avoid raids just because they require you to run a specific build? There are very many friendly and cheap builds that are widely accepted within raids - you should try them out and get the chance to enjoy the raids rather than completely avoid them.
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> @"Gabbynot.2654" said:
> raids was the worst thing put in to this game by anet. next to tying stuff to raids that should never been hooked to raids at all !!
Like what? Raids need to have rewards and incentive to play, otherwise they will be empty content.
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> @"Shiyo.3578" said:
> That is the very definition of a DESTROYED economy.
Can you stop with the hyperbole? The economy is MUCH bigger than 6-7 items.
This farm gave people a specific thing to farm for, without RNG. You want cloth? buy cloth crates. You want T6? Buy t6 crates.
I haven't seen a LW map more packed after the first week of release than this one - it is great, and has definitely promoted more people to achieve their first legendaries, something that was out of reach for them - Gift of Fortune went from 1,400g -> 700-800g. It's great.
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> @Rennie.6750 said:
> > @DakotaCoty.5721 said:
> > > @Menadena.7482 said:
> > > > @TheGrimm.5624 said:
> > > > Not sure what the answer is to this one, just a shame that people will look to game the system when the map design is like this. I think one of the better options might be less timer based and more event base triggers to advance the map. Now that said we don't have visibility into the upcoming maps so this might cause issues with maps we have no information on yet and conflicting events, but map advances driven by events do require players to play the content versus just jump to the rewards section. I don't have problems with farmers unless they farm at the expense of everyone else playing the content as designed, that becomes an issue.
> > >
> > > Actually, they do cause a problem: they spike the population, making the event scale up, then leave for another map all at once. I joined the squad near me during one of the new metas yesterday and they were openly hostile about there being another commander on the map, even trying to figure out a way to get them to disconnect.
> >
> > This is completely and utterly false, the entire point of hosting a multimap is to complete the events on each map, and with great succession - I am waiting for a response on my ticket and from various twitters w/ ArenaNet employees to see whether or not this was intended or unintended.
> >
> > If the commander was threatening with a "ddos" then you should report it to the appropriate authorities, but your entire view and stance on how multimaps work is really out of whack with how they actually work - it's all about getting all the maps to succeed, not to bail the events and fail them at all.
> >
> > ----------
> > On the word "exploit", in ArenaNet's own legal documents of ToS, section 17 outlines an exploit as taking advantage of a bug to unfairly benefit the user. (**You will not exploit any bug** in Guild Wars 2 and you will not communicate the existence of any such exploitable bug (bugs that grant the user unnatural or unintended benefits) either directly or through public posting, to any other user of Guild Wars 2.) Link: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/legal/guild-wars-2-rules-of-conduct/
> >
> > **To what MO said:**
> > "Auric Basic ML is exploity" (notice the Y), within English language, when you disapprove of something but isn't explicitly stated, you add something to demean the value or strength of the word. Saying "exploity" isn't calling it an exploit, they are outlining that the mechanics they added into it weren't being used as intended. An exploit this does not make.
> >
> > **Domain of Istan ML:**
> > This multiloot map has mechanics that have been coded to prevent unlimited gathering of these resources. Someone had to have sat down and planned out this and the evidence is in game.
> >
> > I've had people make up their own definition of what ArenaNet's ToS mean, I've also had people insult me, call my guild gold sellers, personally whisper my commanders to flame them and report them for botting, I've had people insulting other people for farming in squad chat.
> >
> > Let's talk about this:
> > **Why is ML actually good within mechanic limitations** (anti-floodgates)?
> > When GC forms a squad and we get 10 maps, 95% of the time those 10 maps succeed due to the numbers they have, this means, within the maps populations up to 100 player on each map has filled these spots. so in a 10 map-squad, we're effectively communicating a 1,000 player-wide effort to complete these events on time and successfully. And yet, we have people disgruntled that we finally have a farmable meta because the method of the farm in question is being manipulated into a narrative that it is not and actually scaring people away from participating
> >
> > Multiloot map by ArenaNet's own ToS standards is not an exploit, it is not generating infinite gold, it takes time and effort to set up these events - and making stuff up like the quote above, is not helping the cause and is only throwing fuel on the fire.
> >
>
> The fact that there is some sort of limit is obviously an attempt at minimizing the effects of a potential unintended use of game mechanics. It does not mean it's intended gameplay at all. This is the dev team's safety net, it's not meant to be used. It's going to greatly effect the prices of a lot of materials and I doubt the guys balancing the economy are going to be thrilled when they see the results, because prices already dropped a lot already. In 2 days most mats lost 10%, some a lot more. That's obviously not intended. Of course this does not fit your mental narrative of "if the game lets me do it it's fine", but that has always been the motto of every exploiter ever.
Again, you're shifting the meaning of "exploit" when I link the VERY definition of an exploit by ArenaNet themselves. Also, I find your condescension laughable "mental narrative", there are people that enjoy this farm, and yet the people that don't enjoy it label the people that do enjoy it as exploiters and cheaters, where's the logic?
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'No breaks in content delivery'
'6 raid wings a year'.
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> @Ayrilana.1396 said:
> Crafting doesn’t matter since the only item you mentioned were the toxic focusing crystals which yield a marginal profit overall as you won’t be crafting many since the mats don’t drop on that map.
Okay - there's no point further discussing this, your lack of knowledge is affecting your ability to convey a valid point - I'm not trying to be rude, but the materials drop there and I'm not going to continue this argument and accusation of purposefully inflating prices.
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> @Ayrilana.1396 said:
> > @DakotaCoty.5721 said:
> > > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:
> > > > @Ayrilana.1396 said:
> > > > I'm not saying that it's a bad farm but just that their numbers appear to be incorrect. While SW may still be more profitable than PoF, the actual difference that they're stating appears to be misleading. I just don't want this to be used to persuade players from doing potential future PoF meta farms or even saying that a potential PoF meta farm could be worse when in fact it's the opposite.
> > >
> > > Agreed.
> > > And that's another reason why I wish the OP had separated the valuation of the farm from opinions about what that means for the game and separated that from what (if anything) ANet should do in response. Measuring gold/hour is difficult enough, with all the estimates that we have to make. Comparing benchmarks is even trickier because all assumptions and all mat values and time measurements have to be consistent. Compound that with making suggestions that depend on those benchmarks ... not a good mix.
> >
> > On our website, we attribute the gold difference in the loss of leather 13s vs 9s, basically - TL;DR: mounts allow extra time for digging because of two big reasons:
> > 1. they're faster and have burst teleports / movement for quick chest opening
> > 2. items can be used WHILST you are mounted, namely the shovel - this allowed us to farm an extra 8-10 bags in mini-CF and an additional 20-25 in big CF with a deviation of 5-7 minutes when our loops would have ended without mounts.
> > 3. More chests is also more crafting materials, since the mats you get from chests are only from the chests and not the RIBA itself.
> >
> > RIBA gold per hour at around 39g-41g is only accurate if you patiently wait for things to sell on buy order, you craft all your resources and sometimes waiting to know when the right moment to sell is w/ a specific type of item.
> >
> > The numbers are very achievable but it requires a little bit more dedication than just tagging events.
> >
> > Every cloth you get from a Lost Bandit Chest gives value.
> > Every event you complete gives value.
> > Every tree or mithril node you harvest gives value.
> > Every piece of karma you earn gives value (not included in my calculations.)
> > Every Pile of Silky Sand + Geodes adds value. (9g /day)
> > Every Ascended mat adds value (40s*5 = 2g, investment: 30~s, return: 1g 70s-15% for tax).
> > Every rare you get adds value
> > Every single nightmare key you get from META is an additional 6 champion bags and 1 rare guaranteed.
>
> 1) Faster travel time between chests, not quicker chest opening
> 2) Items could be used while running between chests without mounts so being able to use them on mounts doesn’t give them an advantage.
> 3) That’s a given and I don’t disagree with you there.
>
> After looking at the numbers, I’m heavily leaning towards your numbers being wrong and very inflated. I’m questioning them on here because what you’re claiming to achieve will be used to compare the worth of existing, and potential future, PoF meta farms.
>
> **Facts:**
>
> 1) Reported 121 hours spent to earn 2,800G
> 2) 2,500G earned from opening 15K Bags
> 3) Before PoF, you claimed that the farm would net upwards to 25-35G an hour
> 4) Post-PoF, you now claim it to be 39-41G per hour
> 5) The only change being the supposed ability to do an extra chest farm for 25-35 more bags.
> 6) You based each bag being worth 4 silver
>
> **Maths:**
>
> Assuming that you did one full SW cycle an hour, those 25-35 bags would have to have yielded 14-16 more gold which would but then being worth an average of 42-60 silver per bag. Considerably higher than the 4 silver per bag that you also claimed.
>
> Of the 15,000 bags opened, at 4 silver each, that’s 600G. If you obtained those during the 121 hours, that comes to an hour rate of 4.96G.
>
> You claim that the difference in rugged leather squares (13s vs 9s) to be compensated by the mounts. The total difference, accounting for the tax, between the two is 123G. At your claimed 4s per bag, you’d have to open an additional 3,095 bags.
> Assuming you always hit the upper limit of the 20-25 extra bags that you claim to get, this means that you would have to do 124 metas. This does put you at roughly break even if you complete a meta every hour. **However**, it’s not just rugged leather prices that fell but **all** prices.
>
> I suggest that you re-do all of the math on your FB page to reflect current prices. I plan to do that after work today. If your numbers are going to be used to compare the worth of existing, and any potential PoF metas from the LS, they had better be accurate. I find it strange that you’re yielding more G/hr now, with very reduced material prices across the board, than people who did the solely the chest farm when prices were very much higher. Your numbers also appear to rival the fractal farm too. Very strange.
I said in my facebook post and here, that those calculations at the time did not include any form of crafting or refining.
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> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:
> > @Ayrilana.1396 said:
> > I'm not saying that it's a bad farm but just that their numbers appear to be incorrect. While SW may still be more profitable than PoF, the actual difference that they're stating appears to be misleading. I just don't want this to be used to persuade players from doing potential future PoF meta farms or even saying that a potential PoF meta farm could be worse when in fact it's the opposite.
>
> Agreed.
> And that's another reason why I wish the OP had separated the valuation of the farm from opinions about what that means for the game and separated that from what (if anything) ANet should do in response. Measuring gold/hour is difficult enough, with all the estimates that we have to make. Comparing benchmarks is even trickier because all assumptions and all mat values and time measurements have to be consistent. Compound that with making suggestions that depend on those benchmarks ... not a good mix.
On our website, we attribute the gold difference in the loss of leather 13s vs 9s, basically - TL;DR: mounts allow extra time for digging because of two big reasons:
1. they're faster and have burst teleports / movement for quick chest opening
2. items can be used WHILST you are mounted, namely the shovel - this allowed us to farm an extra 8-10 bags in mini-CF and an additional 20-25 in big CF with a deviation of 5-7 minutes when our loops would have ended without mounts.
3. More chests is also more crafting materials, since the mats you get from chests are only from the chests and not the RIBA itself.
RIBA gold per hour at around 39g-41g is only accurate if you patiently wait for things to sell on buy order, you craft all your resources and sometimes waiting to know when the right moment to sell is w/ a specific type of item.
The numbers are very achievable but it requires a little bit more dedication than just tagging events.
Every cloth you get from a Lost Bandit Chest gives value.
Every event you complete gives value.
Every tree or mithril node you harvest gives value.
Every piece of karma you earn gives value (not included in my calculations.)
Every Pile of Silky Sand + Geodes adds value. (9g /day)
Every Ascended mat adds value (40s*5 = 2g, investment: 30~s, return: 1g 70s-15% for tax).
Every rare you get adds value
Every single nightmare key you get from META is an additional 6 champion bags and 1 rare guaranteed.
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> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:
> Regarding farming numbers: It apparently doesn't go without saying:
> > there's no such thing as "accurate gold per hour rates".
> All any researcher can do is to try to figure out how much _they_ can make. The most useful posts include detailed descriptions of the techniques used, in a manner that allows us to replicate across different farms.
>
> That allows us to compare g/hr benchmarks, i.e. the most important criterion in deciding on a farm.
> (There are other considerations: how long can we stomach each farm, are they fun, can we be as efficient in monetizing loot or are we too impatient?)
>
> In effect, _Grind Coven_ does for farming what _Quantify_ does for speedclearing builds:
> * They test techniques for optimizing loot drops and monetizing loot & currency.
> * They practice getting consistent results from particular farms.
> * Just as QT's benchmarks vary depending on the rest of your squad, CG's results depend heavily on the players in map, your person ability to monetize, and how accurately you follow their guide.
>
> No "gold per hour" estimate is ever going to be "proven" accurate, because mileage will vary. The idea is to use the numbers from optimizers to benchmark the best possible and compare to how well you can replicate it.
>
> ****
> > > > > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:
> > > > > * **Silverwastes RIBA farming can generate 30-40g/hour** (based on previous work by CG & others). Requires particular methods and conversion of bandit crests to reach that amount
>
> > > > @Ayrilana.1396 said:
> > > > Has the bolded been proven to be accurate?
>
> In the sense that [CG] can obtain those numbers? Yes. Can I obtain those numbers? Almost for sure not (I can't focus-farm for the length of time required).
> (besides when have you known me to post numbers without researching? I meant to include the reddit link. Sorry about leaving it out)
>
> > > @DakotaCoty.5721 said:
> > > https://www.facebook.com/notes/dakotacoty/cg-sw-riba-2800-gold-in-two-weeks/1582631455140649/
>
> > > > @Ayrilana.1396 said:
> > Thanks for the link. I’m still hesitant to believe that it’s that high but I’ll try it again post-PoF to see if there are any improvements.
>
> Again, [CG] isn't showing what **you** are going to make. They have demonstrated the best case and compared it to the best case for the known PoF farms. Your mileage is going to vary.
>
> The point of including the 30-40g number is that CG obtained that and compared to their best numbers from various PoF farms. If they can't obtain 30-40g, then I think it's a fair statement of fact that PoF farms are less profitable (regardless of whether your earnings or mine hit their optimum).
>
> ****
> tl;dr what [CG] is saying that, all things being equal, their techniques can generate a lot more gold per hour from Silverwastes than any PoF farm.
>
> (That just means PoF is less profitable, not "unprofitable". And that might... or might not be good for the game that is less profitable.)
I agree with what you are saying entirely - it is impossible to give 100% accuracy on any research that involves RNG upon RNG with variables - and definitely something we will be adding to our website, amongst other points raised here.
For us, we personally did runs, collected hours of researched and determined that PoF was simply not profitable compared to RIBA or even remotely close by the numbers that we can pull; this being said, not everyone enjoys RIBA, but, there has been shared concerns on the forums, reddit and in-game about the loot rewards from PoF itself and being basically 'meh' as the consensus would have you.
There are always going to be people that find little niche spots to farm 60g/h until it gets fixed or until the market gets flooded, but we're not about finding those types of farming since that would entail mass-exclusion (it wouldn't be feasible to have 50 man squad on a mob farming spot).
-----
Our website will actively keep our data uploaded once we go public with it and then people can see in full detail or in TL;DR posts about why we stay in Silverwastes but on the flip side, so desperately want to leave Silverwastes - some people suggested a flat-out-nerf to Silverwastes to bring it down to 15g/h like mentioned PoF farms, but harsh mutilation of a farming spot with no substitute would actually destroy my community, because we'd be so upset over the "what we could've had".
This has also been seen in communities that did AB multiloot farming - communities destroyed because they had no other focus, outside of AB multi there was RIBA, but, without RIBA there is nothing left to farm except F40.
`And I really want to stress: I didn't mention my guild because we're acting better than anyone, I mentioned our community because we communicate with each other to see what information we gather, the best farming methods and whether or not something is under-tuned, I am not one voice.`
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> @Razor.6392 said:
> Supersede? If anything it should be just as profitable, not better lol.
I'd be down for that. I'd also be down for Silverwastes getting a nerf so PoF could be better, so the flow of players move from SW to PoF, if you get me.
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> @Hevoskuuri.3891 said:
> > @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:
> > Regardless, I'd not posted an opinion about any issue; just wondered who this CG was, and why they, more than any other poster on Reddit, needed their statement linked here, or why I should go out of my way to visit Reddit.
>
> No one specifically said their statement __needed__ to be linked here, or encouraged anyone to check Reddit for that matter.
>
> The CG is a very well-known Silverwastes farming guild in EU, and they have the experience of thousands of Silverwaste runs. Many players are interested in the data they provide, and their topic in Reddit spurred a big discussion. The OP decided to bring the same discussion here as well, for those who are interested in the subject but don't go to reddit. Many big Reddit topics have been recreated here in the past for that same reason, just like this one.
If I am personally posting from my account, I normally post the discussions within the forums / reddit and facebook groups so everyone can get involved if they don't use those platforms.
> @Djinn.9245 said:
> > @FrizzFreston.5290 said:
> > I don't think its needed for everything to be profitable. Its ofcourse needed for certain longterm goals, but PoF seems profitable enough to me.
> >
> > Then again the prospect that random treasure hunts should be fixed by making them not random seems like silliness to me. "Oh no its not profitable enough even when we use this obnoxious way of getting as much loot as possible. Make it so this obnoxious farm method actually works!" Seriously? How about making more fun content more rewarding rather than making the most boring way of playing the game rewarding.
> >
>
> I completely disagree. The fact is that there needs to be reasonable rewards for people to want to keep maps populated. That is why Silverwastes continues to be populated even though it is 3 years old.
>
> There is nothing wrong with people wanting decent rewards, and map Metas were specifically designed so player would continue to populate a map. The incentive to do the meta is the reward. Currently PoF metas are not done on a regular basis making collections difficult for players that have not done them yet.
Silverwastes was so perfectly designed purely by the circular design of the map and simply how easy it is to do events and gain rewards. I hope we see something like this for PoF or a future LW map.
> @Djinn.9245 said:
> > @"Nick Lentz.6982" said:
> > > @Ashen.2907 said:
> > >
> > > > **TL;DR**:
> > > > PoF cannot mechanically be profitable
> > >
> > > This is factually inaccurate. A complete falsehood actually. If I receive a drop in PoF and sell it, without spending coin in the process, then I have profited in PoF.
> >
> > That's...that's not how it works. I guess I should park all my characters at starter zone jp chests and profit from the phat loot of medallions. Fact.
> >
> Very true - while you can *make gold* from anything your character sells, that is not the same as making a profit. Unless you completely discount your time and think it is worthless.
I understand profit for anyone playing can be getting 1 copper, but in my post I should have been clearer - PoF is nowhere near as profitable as previous maps, that's what I meant to say. I guess some people on Reddit noticed this and made a comment about the choice of words I used.
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> @Ayrilana.1396 said:
> > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:
> > * **Silverwastes RIBA farming can generate 30-40g/hour** (based on previous work by CG & others). Requires particular methods and conversion of bandit crests to reach that amount
>
> Has the bolded been proven to be accurate?
>
> I only ask because there was a Reddit thread earlier in the year from a guild leader who regularly did the RIBA farm and claimed it to be around 20G/hr. Prices certainly haven’t increased since then. Players have a bad habit of not accounting for all of the time spent.
>
>
https://www.facebook.com/notes/dakotacoty/cg-sw-riba-2800-gold-in-two-weeks/1582631455140649/
There you go.
Do note:
The math is made on commander's efficiency, hasn't been majorly updated since PoF launched but we are planning to do that when our website goes live.
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> @Erasculio.2914 said:
> > @DakotaCoty.5721 said:
> > I never acted or intended to give off the message that our guild is super important
>
> Errrrr... Your signature is saying otherwise:
>
> > @DakotaCoty.5721 said:
> > Leader of EU's top farming, guide & research guild: [Grind Coven]
>
> "Top" guild of an entire continent, huh? Sure sounds important.
>
But my signature isn't relevant to this post, it's a quick TL;DR of our guild for people who don't know CG - I posted our guild tag because we talked as a community about highlighting issues, not because I wanted to use it as a momentum for bragging - I'm glad the issues that we highlighted are getting due attention, though.
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> @scerviche.4185 said:
> Ohhh my guild is so special i have to make sure its in the topic title. Didn't read anything you typed, screw off.
Did you literally make your first ever forum comment one as hostile as that?
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> @Faaris.8013 said:
> > @Wanze.8410 said:
> > > @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:
> > > Who is CG and why is their opinion more important?
> >
> > where did he mention that their opinion is more important than others?
>
> Well, OP started with "CG made a statement about how PoF mechanically makes itself impossible to farm profitably." That makes it sound like they are some official entity whose statement has a lot of weight. I think what Inculpatus wanted to ask what makes their opinion important. He does not even make a comparison, you just added "than others".
>
> I don't see a problem here either. Apparently, this guild views an MMO as farming ground and bases their argument on that. If an area cannot be farmed according to their own made up standards, it's not worth playing. That's fine, I just don't see why they feel the need to make a statement about it. That's like me and my guild saying that every zone that has no cats is not worth playing, and demanding more cats in the new zones. Of course after doing proper testing and research, and then releasing a statement to the press that our conclusion is that the new zones are not playable because they lack the amount of cats we set as benchmark for playability. I bet more people would support this than the demand to make the new zones better farms.
The entire philosophy of an MMO is to feel rewarded and farm content - if the content you're farming only nets you 10g an hour, over RIBA which is at 40g an hour, does that mean our community should be happy that we cannot farm PoF in its entirety?
I think people really took me mentioning my guild out of context, and couldn't read past the title - I never acted or intended to give off the message that our guild is super important, but merely, add more weight to our views because it's coming from **a community of players** rather than just a singular player.
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> @Wanze.8410 said:
> > @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:
> > Who is CG and why is their opinion more important?
>
> where did he mention that their opinion is more important than others?
I explained below why I mentioned our community - I hope it helps clear any confusion.
> @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:
> The title of the thread has been changed. I had no idea it was a guild from the thread title.
> I wondered why, since I had no idea who or what CG was, what the reason the post/thread was brought to this forum from another venue; indicating, to me at least, that the OP found it of importance. Usually, it's a Dev post, or such.
>
I mentioned my guild because I am proud of my guild, these thoughts are not just my own - it's something I gathered collectively with my community. Our community is thriving and never been more active; I wanted to include that in my post as a factor in why I made the post, not because I want false importance over other people's opinion.
In my mind, I thought "If I mentioned my guild, it would have more of an impact because it's not just my own thoughts, it's several other people's."
As for the thread name change, I did not do that.
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> @Nemmar.8491 said:
> Btw this:
>
> _There are no additional awards for making the effort to physically pick up the bounty contract._
>
> Is a good thing.
>
> Can you imagine how painful it would be if you came across a bounty in the world and didn't get rewarded because you didn't go grab the bounty on the board? You go off to try and find it and it's already dead.
> The system could work differently in how it's presented. Maybe the bounties should be visible on the map and you just click a button to accept them, but i don't really see a big problem with how it works now in that regard.
Key word *additional* <- I didn't suggest nerfing current rewards, just give MORE rewards for people that make the effort to pick it up - definitely not completely remove rewards from bounties :)
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> @Shirlias.8104 said:
> I do understand that pof needs some improvement.
> The part I don't share is
>
> > Make the keys cheaper, make buying them cheaper. **Whatever it is to make PoF supersede Silverwastes**.
>
> I would appreciate more if there would be an alternative ( in every expansion ).
> I don't know how much tsw is better if compared to pof farm, but they could definitely work on pof comparing it to tsw.
If I could have it my own way, I'd love to have SW for X farming items, and PoF for X farming items, both equally as profitable if you decide to cash in - that's just me personally, though.
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> @StinVec.3621 said:
> > @"Silmar Alech.4305" said:
> > In my opinion, there is nothing broken and nothing needs to be fixed. In fact, I assume it's the other way round: this all is probably intended and a fix to existing farming. Only my personal opinion.
>
> I agree. Everything outlined only makes me say "Good job, ArenaNet!"
>
> Also...is it CG or GC? You say CG several times, but noted that it stands for Grind Coven, which is GC. Never heard of whoever it is anyway and am not interested to learn more considering they think the mechanics are broken because they can't farm them instead of working properly so as to prevent farming.
I didn't say the mechanics are broken, I said the mechanics make the farm impossible to be profitable - I am guessing it was added for a reason, but I do feel that it's way too harsh or the loot drops from trade caches were over-nerfed.
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`Note:`
- **Our thread title was forcefully renamed without my permission and in a very condescending PA title, also.**, this concern that we're sharing is not just that of our *community*, there are have been loads of people on the forums, in-game and Reddit giving active feedback about the unrewarding playstyle of PoF.
- **I mentioned my guild because I am proud to be in such an active community, and to signify that these thoughts are not just my own, but also the collective ideas and feedback given by the players within GC.** It was not my intent to come across that we hold more importance over other players.
-------
Hello everyone o/
GC made a statement about how PoF mechanically makes itself impossible to farm profitably. The link is below including the paste of the discussion:
--------------
Hey all - CG (Grind Coven) wanted to make a statement today about **why PoF is near-impossible difficult to make profitable over other farming methods**... *(Not regarding meta-events per say)*.
Outlining the issues:
* **Bounties**: they take too long (with scaling) to make effective for farming, and the rewards are really bad.
* There are no additional awards for making the effort to **physically pick up the bounty contract.**
* **Chest Farming**: CG really tried to make this work. We did around 5 full tests, with 20 people then 50+ people. *Summary* - *the less people you have, the worse it is*.
**Why**?
* Bounty chest locations are RNG on *item use*, which is unique to **each player**.
* It requires raid-level attention and efficiency**^1** from **all** squad members. **It's simply too much work for a pug or even guild-level organisation.**
* Each map has several 'circles' for spawning chests inside of, each 'circle' has around 7-10 chest spots, **and the circles are huge, not small**.
* **Trade Caches**: These in beta were great, they were super cheap and made **trade contracts** worth farming, however, with their price hike, they become nearly unprofitable.
^1 - **Every player in the squad must be aware of**: their own chest location, how to reset it, not to make a mistake in picking up someone else's chest before using their item, knowing that they must mark their own chest (giving everyone lieutenant).
------------
**How can ArenaNet fix this**
I am personally not one for venting frustrations without offering some constructive solutions.
**Chest locations**: Make them fixed spawn, rather than RNG-on-item-use **or** allow the item to be refreshed without having to relog/rezone.
-
* **Bounties**: Increased rewards for people that physically collect bounties, also increase overall rewards, maybe with the chances of something else along the reward line?
* **Trade caches**: Make the keys cheaper, make buying them cheaper. Whatever it is to make PoF supersede Silverwastes.
**Closing statement**:
If Chest Locations remain RNG per character, it is going to be quite difficult to make PoF profitable and replayable. I plea for you to change it - these maps are visually stunning and capturing visually, but for content, **they simply aren't capturing enough to leave silverwastes.**
---------
**TL;DR**:
PoF cannot mechanically be profitable; rework is needed. Bounties need an overhaul, reward given for physical collection of bounty. Rewards need to be buffed overall.
**GC's Discord is now open to the public**: https://discord.gg/GrindCoven - if you want to come chat, feel free and ask us questions :)
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> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:
> > @Khisanth.2948 said:
> > Clovers from those seems extremely rare. You have a much better chance of getting ascended materials, selling those, buying the coins then make the clover.
>
> The data I have from 1750 bundles is:
> * roughly 1.6g value per 1000 unbound magic, on average (if you buy in Ember Bay; it's not worth it to buy in other areas) (taking into account Evon's cut)
> * plus 3.9 clover per 100 bundles
>
> From 1000 packets, I have
> * ~0.60g value per 1000 unbound magic
> * includes the value of ~9 ascended mats per 100 packets (roughly evenly divided)
>
> In other words, it's better to buy bundles instead of packets, even if you don't care about the clover (and it's better still if you do).
Do you mind if I add this data to our (CG)'s upcoming website?
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> @"Gaile Gray.6029" said:
> As I have explained, we have several bugs over with Vanilla. They are prioritized as to whether they are game... well... *forum* breaking issues. While this is irritating, it's not a Priority 1, where something that prevents someone from logging in would be set at that level.
>
> We'll see where Vanilla is on this bug, but please be patient, as they are queuing up on other issues first.
Hey Gaile,
I understand your continued support on this forums and really respect the time you give to reply to this thread - but to my, this is a forum breaking issue. I cannot have conversations with people due to no notifications; people may think that I am ignoring them or simply don't want to discuss with them and this isn't the attitude I want people thinking of me.
I hope this issue gets fixed soon, it's impossible to find replies on threads have numerous pages to them and the likes.
Have a good evening - and thanks for the reply again.
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> @Tiscan.8345 said:
> Basically this feature "works as intended" - at least from what was intended by the Vanilla forums devs ([Vanilla Forums](https://vanillaforums.com "Vanilla Forums") is the Forum-Software that is used here). In the file `%WHEREVER VANILLA FORUMS IS INSTALLED TO%\library\core\class.format.php` shipped with the forum there is a function called `formatMentionsCallback()` which is responsible for parsing mentions.
>
> The header of that function states:
>
> * Supports most usernames by using double-quotes, for example: @"a $pecial user's! name."
> * Without double-quotes, a mentioned username is terminated by any of the following characters:
> * whitespace | . | , | ; | ? | ! | :
>
> I guess the Vanilla forums-devs made the conscious decision as in "normal" forums, you won't find a lot of usernames with dots or other special chars. But you will find stuff like "Hey @somerandomuser.how about XYZ?" and this would lead to a broken mention as it would try to tag "somerandomuser.how" if it wouldn't treat the dot as the end of the mention.
>
> **Untested** I think all that ArenaNet would have to do is to change line 1648 in that file from
>
> > `$parts2 = preg_split('`([\s.,;?!:])`', $str, 2, PREG_SPLIT_DELIM_CAPTURE);`
>
> to
>
> > `$parts2 = preg_split('`([\s,;?!:])`', $str, 2, PREG_SPLIT_DELIM_CAPTURE);`
>
> This should remove the dot from the list of chars that "terminate" a mention (if you look closely, i removed the "." after the "\s").
>
> Oh, and I guess its basically the same in the quote-function - i just don't have the motivation to check this, too :smile:
>
> Just tagging @"DakotaCoty.5721" so he sees this :smiley:
I very much appreciate your response to the thread, and I am quite happy that you took the time to try and debunk it - it's highly annoying to be involved in a discussion and to have to ctrl + f each time to see if someone has actually quoted you in a response :(
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> @SoulPariah.2856 said:
> Issue is ongoing but redundant discussions 16288 and 2315 need deleted / consolidated.
>
> The issue:
> When you quote a person's comment who does not have a space in their name, quotes are not placed around their username when it's copied into the text box below. When you then submit the comment it only includes part of the username in the hyperlink.
>
> Tagging @"Gaile Gray.6029" for awareness (not sure if you ever even saw this one, actually, as it's not the one you were tagged in before. Hopefully this'll get traction again and eventually resolved?
>
> Thanks in advance!
Gaile previously commented on my older thread saying the issue had been passed on but 1 month later nothing has been fixed on it :(
Newst Topic: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/16288/quoting-feature-unfixed-after-2-months-of-reporting-it
Topic Gaile replied to: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/2315/gaile-please-quoting-issue-2-full-breakdown
What keeps you from raids?
in Guild Wars 2 Discussion
Posted
> @"Vault Girl.6792" said:
> > @"DakotaCoty.5721" said:
> > > @"Vault Girl.6792" said:
> > > Ah, I forgot to mention that groups also require full ascended armor sets and certain runes (I got kicked once just because of "wrong" runes in my armor). For me it's not a problem to get an armor set, and I agree that it's better to have ascended armor due to higher stats. But I find it not reasonable to have a set that you use JUST for raids, because you wouldn't use it in normal PvE. Well, in addition to a character that is used just for raids too.
> > > So, the necessity to have a certain build + certain armor just for raids kills a lot of fun.
> >
> > But why avoid raids just because they require you to run a specific build? There are very many friendly and cheap builds that are widely accepted within raids - you should try them out and get the chance to enjoy the raids rather than completely avoid them.
>
> You are right, but I'm not concerned about the cost and the difficulty. I just don't want to be forced to play classes and builds I don't like, and to have several characters with different builds just for raids. And even if I do, the group might already have enough mesmers/eles/warriors/druids/whatever and require a class that I don't have. Or a new boss can be introduced, and then I'd need to quickly switch to a new build in order to be accepted (and still use the old build for other bosses).
> Too much effort and too little fun.
I play Soulbeast on every fight apart from KC, KC is the only boss that forces people to switch characters - of course, a balance patch coming soon will change these things, but there are classes you can stick to for constant fights that's DPS. I hope you find the motivation to find a DPS build that you can stick with, that's meta and get a chance to enjoy raids for what they are.
It's a pain to get into pugs if you don't have the Li, but if you whisper the squad leader, prior to joining, I'm sure they will be understanding.