Fipmip.7219

> @"Dawdler.8521" said: > > @"draxynnic.3719" said: > > What I suspect would _actually_ revolutionise Tyrian warfare is basically similar to what happened in the real world: mechanised warfare. At the moment, war vehicles are at a roughly WW1 level of use: they're present, but infantry still does most of the work. Even now, though, vehicles make weapons and pieces of magitech that are too big to be practical to be used by an infantry soldier actually useful in mobile warfare. With a bit of refinement and reconsideration of tactics, though, this could lead to a paradigm shift similar to that which occurred with WW2. > > Tank General: *"We are bringing 1000 tanks into battle to drive a wedge through the enemy lines and take the enemy city!"* > Elementalist: *"The city is gone, I just meteor showered it"* > Tank General: *"... well we still got lots of infantry to deal with!"* > Elementalist: *"Died from the same meteor shower."* > Tank General: *"... enemy tanks?* > Elementalist: *"Who the kitten even brings tanks to a battle where a single person can literally pull meteors from the sky?"* > Tank General: *":("* I think this basically the short of it. While i think that individuals in the lore have not been typically capable of calling meteor storms on cities by themselves, I don't really see why, for example, the charr couldn't just streamline some sort of ritual to basically call down the searing whenever they please. With that kind of power playing at attack and defense, armies are probably put into occupational and guerilla roles. That being said, anet has no problem handwaving away that sort of reality, as we have seen time and again throughout the story.

I actually really dislike a lot of post PoF maps that resemble muddily textured tundras that are designed to be sped past on mounts as fast as possible. It makes for a miserable experience for players like myself that like to walk through maps and notice all the details that were present in core and HoT maps. I think it's gotten a bit better recently with bjora and drizzlewood, but there's a place for wide open spaces and anet needs to be able to identify them better.

My point about trench warfare is not meant to be hard evidence for its viability (although such in-game evidence does exist). It is simply meant as a background for why such warfare would be cool to see at some point in the future, a method of carrying the suspension of disbelief via a 'reasonable enough' plot development in hopefully the minds of most people. The way actual warfare would be executed is not something that can be calculated outside of whatever anet decides will be the theme of the season. There is already large dichotomy in what happens between large player fights, large NPC fights and cutscenes. the world on screen is a synecdoche of the world in canon. My simple reasoning is that battlefields like those seen in verdun and passchendaele make for exciting, cinematic gameplay areas that, going by what I have outlined in the OP, would fit reasonably well. > @"Psientist.6437" said: > Not taking into account magic; guns, tanks, and helicopters make trench warfare obsolete. With them, we get our real world version of the ancient strategy of using forward forts and rearward support to project force with regular patrols and rapid response tactics. Guns, tanks and helicopters would make it much easier for powerful Tyrians to control, protect or threaten civilian populations. Tyria adds teleportation, wormholes, dragon mounts, etc into the bag. If we take the premise of group buffing seriously, large scale Tyrian combat would likely look similar to WvW but with real death. The winner would then overwhelm the civilians and magic poor. besides the point, but I'd like to point out that trenches are still used in real-world modern warfare.

Yeah I agree magic protection is what makes melee combat more viable, perhaps not as a stronger alternative, since there's not much lorewise to suggest melee being superior except outside of game mechanics, but as simple preference based on what role is needed. Being able to close the gap over large amounts of terrain more easily is useful as a way of occupying ground and ending battles faster. however, trenches have appeared, with almorra using them against the shatterer and charr using them against eachother, so we can at least point to evidence of their value. It seems that not all types of magic are as ubiquitous and readily available for the rank and file, and simple earth serves as a cheaper and more sustainable barrier than magic shields.

i think you might have missed the point of this post, I dont really mind the modernization, I just think that the theme of trench battling in current tyrian warfare should be taken further.

Guild wars is excellent to come back to and play around with the new stuff for a couple of months, then drop out agian. Having an MMO option that welcomes you back with open arms whenever you wish is a corner of the market that I think GW2 comfortably occupies, and I see no need to change that. I'd like to see your thoughts on what exactly it is that elevates ff14's PvE against guild wars.

well, maybe if we just sit around, every other class will get turbo nerfed and we'll be viable again

> @"Veprovina.4876" said: > > @"Fipmip.7219" said: > > > @"Veprovina.4876" said: > > > How about a permadeth roguelike for the really hardcore crowd? You need full legendary equipment to enter, and once you die that's it! :tongue: > > > Joking aside, i like it, but it's not really a roguelike, just infinite dungeon. > > > Roguelikes have permadeth for character, then upgrades to new ones with the currency you farmed while on previous character. > > > But i get the gist, and could be cool. Something like an infinite dungeon with random modifiers like in Torchlight or something. > > > Sadly, i think people would get bored of it as well like they do with all the content. > > > And at one point, since GW2 has a capped gear at ascended variety - dungeons would get too hard to withstand the mobs and damage them, if they add progressive difficulty. It would have to be capped at a certain point, no? > > > Idk.. But it's a nice idea. > > > > What gave you the impression it was supposed to be infinite? I specifically mentioned a top and bottom. a very difficult, perhaps near impossible top and bottom, but a finite top and bottom nonetheless. > > I wont pretend like people wont get bored of it either. But arguing against more gameplay options for boredom's sake is a poor one. games are not supposed to be played forever. even if there was an infinite amount of varied content in the game to try out, you would get bored of the core gameplay itself eventually. > > Hey, i like your idea. Don't get so worked up about it, i'm just discussing it. > I never said you said infinite, i said "something like Torchlight that has infinite dungeons", meaning you just get random modifiers as you go. I meant it as a possible additional idea to yours, i never said that you came up with it. > > As for people getting bored of it, that wasn't an argument against it, what gave you that idea? > Also, i already said i like it twice, how am i arguing against it? Why are you so defensive? > This was more a stab at people that chew at the content in a day or two when it's released, then complain to Anet that they're bored and that there's no new content to do. > > Sheesh... you're accusing me of the very thing you're doing. chill. The first few lines of your original comment is poorly worded to seem like you've misinterpreted what I'm saying. other than that I'm just responding to the general concerns in this thread of new ideas eventually becoming boring. dont assume anyone is worked up.

> @"Veprovina.4876" said: > How about a permadeth roguelike for the really hardcore crowd? You need full legendary equipment to enter, and once you die that's it! :tongue: > Joking aside, i like it, but it's not really a roguelike, just infinite dungeon. > Roguelikes have permadeth for character, then upgrades to new ones with the currency you farmed while on previous character. > But i get the gist, and could be cool. Something like an infinite dungeon with random modifiers like in Torchlight or something. > Sadly, i think people would get bored of it as well like they do with all the content. > And at one point, since GW2 has a capped gear at ascended variety - dungeons would get too hard to withstand the mobs and damage them, if they add progressive difficulty. It would have to be capped at a certain point, no? > Idk.. But it's a nice idea. What gave you the impression it was supposed to be infinite? I specifically mentioned a top and bottom. a very difficult, perhaps near impossible top and bottom, but a finite top and bottom nonetheless. I wont pretend like people wont get bored of it either. But arguing against more gameplay options for boredom's sake is a poor one. games are not supposed to be played forever. even if there was an infinite amount of varied content in the game to try out, you would get bored of the core gameplay itself eventually.

I've never played wow and this idea was born purely from a combination of rogue-likes in general and watching an anime in which there was a pit that no one had ever reached the bottom of. I think that in terms of the game being geared towards casuals, more gamemode options are important for longevity.

I try to switch characters around more. I still havent learned half the classes in this game. and each one has multiple ways to play, and now with build slots.

I'd say it depends on the map, but PoF maps tend to be very barren in favour of space for mounts.

I agree that people would complain about it, because what I'm asking for is pretty against the grain of guild wars design so far, and people would complain on principle. But I don't think that its always in developers best interests to cave into that sort of response, or rather the fear of that response, all the time. If I were designing a map like this, my main goal would be not to ask players to cross it too many times. If you've ever tried playing skyrim without fast travel, you might notice all the quests telling you to talk to a person on the other side of the map and then come back again, which should be avoided. I think this sort of thing can be done right, and if so, will be worth the open space feeling that you cant really get anywhere in the game currently. I cant really speak for anyone that is sick of deserts though, personally I feel like deserts can offer varied environments and that dune seas are one of them that we havent really gotten in any satisfying capacity so far.

In my opinion, many of the core maps were excellent at telling a story and making the world feel grounded and interesting, with dozens of named NPCs, minor factions and thought out locations. All the paths leading to lions arch with fortified outposts along them, each with their own problems and metas, all of the minor faction settlements, all of the NPC routines and dialog and the way some metas lead into others, it all made for a world that felt like it had a wealth of detail if you cared to stop and look. The meta at the reservoir in queensdale effecting the water supply in shaemoor and the fields is just one of the hundreds of examples packed into every map. I agree with verdant brink being my favourite map, as it took the design elements from the core maps and elevated them with more interconnected metas, reoccurring characters and different perspectives on the same overall meta, and more beautiful map modelling. Thats not to say that the other HoT maps were anything less than stellar either, and the entire process of each meta telling a sequential story in parallel with the personal one, with replayabilty for the different perspectives, all topped off with a final epic battle in dragons stand was absolute peak guild wars, something that I hope can be topped or at least equaled in the new expansion.