Tanbin.2436

> @"Phobia.9651" said:

> Well I would appreciate if Arenanet was at least upfront about making an unrewarding gamemode slightly more unrewarding. Noone plays sPvP for the minuscule chance of getting something amazing from a reward track anyway, but it felt good whenever you did get that ascended chest out of the blue.

You're making assumptions based on what numbers and then demanding them to explain why they did something when you don't even have evidence of something they may have done?

Where are the statistics for your claims, numbers to back up your claims?

It's just RNG, you get some and sometimes you don't but the actual numbers behind it should be explained before you go on rants.

> @"Kuma.1503" said:

> Seems the nerf train is continuing with no signs of stopping. Instead of fighting it, I may as well add my own voice to the mob and maybe get something out of it.

>

> Ahem:

>

> Pls nerf condi trapper ranger. It's an unfun degen build. Entangle is a buggy mess with some skills not even being able to target roots properly. It has a decent tell, but this is completely negated when you can just cast from stealth. It's unfun cheese and does not belong in PvP.

>

> Ty :)

So the problem is the runes, not the build? This is literally the same issue as DH Trapper or any class that can be viable with rune cheese. This is why they don't listen to you, outside of them really not caring about the game mode - you make no sense and ask for nerfs for the incorrect things.

If ranger traps and entangle is trash outside of trapper runes, then it's trash (because it wouldn't be used ever without the runes and it's literally a gimmick) and shouldn't be nerfed and the rune should be nerfed. Otherwise, you're nerfing something that's trash and then when they nerf the runes eventually because it also makes other specs annoying, it'll continue to be trash.

> @"Shao.7236" said:

> > @"noiwk.2760" said:

> > problem is.. Anet does nothing against bots/hackers.. today you will see even elite classes botting and hacking.. not only free to play why? because its safe

>

> Don't get your point, they could ban all the cheating accounts just to find more of the same people doing it again.

>

> The more prominent an exploit becomes, the more information you have to fix it.

Maybe a few ways to do it is allow some added forms of verification on top of the account before being able to play in ranked, like SMS verification and ID Verifications for confirming. These options, while annoying, could be out of game examples. That won't stop all of them, it'll just make it harder to deal with and in some cases, too much work for the botters to do it as the added technicality vs reward is no longer worth it.

On the flipside, this could also end up being too much work for legitimate players wanting to simply get into a match quickly, so yea I'm not sure. The ID verification is a pain in the ass and would throw people off but could be an effective way to handle it.

If they are willing to neglect confirmation or verification methods prior to playing, then they need to employ a team to strictly enforce weekly bans and be consistent like BDO does. This is hard to do with a dwindling team though, so not sure.

With that said, you either do those things or just don't allow them to play ranked in PvP. Personally, with Steam coming up I think barring F2P from PvP will really hurt potential growth even though I personally think adding Guild Wars 2 onto Steam will have very little to no pull at all for new players or the retention in PvP. However, based on initial numbers and follow-through , if it doesn't maybe having a game limit put in place for F2P (5-10 games) as a "trial" prior to purchasing may be sufficient enough.

So I guess TL;DR:

1. Added account verification options like SMS/ID Verification prior to even being able to play ranked (seems over the top just to play pvp but may help a bit)

2. Employing a dedicated team to monitor memory editing accounts and botters

3. Trial period for F2P accounts, max ~5 ranked games a week and maybe ~20-25 for unranked? If you want to have the full benefits, you pay for a copy of the game.

4. If you want the extreme route, just don't allow F2P to do ranked PvP at all.

> @"CutesySylveon.8290" said:

> > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said:

> > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> > > > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said:

> > > > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > > > > > > > @"GewRoo.4172" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > > > > > > > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > in my mind it was always a downside to the skill, that weights against how kitten OP the rest of it is.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > LR is no different than any other skill that functions exactly like it, of which there are many. But none of the others have a rando damage proc to ruin the skill usage.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Also, we aren't talking a "downside" here. We are talking about complete neutralization of the skill vs. passive CCs, as if you had only brought 2 utilities into the match rather than 3. No other skill in the game has such a busted fundamental behind its mechanic.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > what other skills?

> > > > > > > > > this removes stuns with almost no cooldown, creates massive distance evades and gives vigor, no other skill comes to mind that is even close to that value

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Roll for Initiative, Riposting Shadows are similar in some way. I am with you OP. You are a lunatic tho.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > exactly my point?

> > > > > > > 30s cd vs 50s cd, massive difference

> > > > > > > 30s cd vs 40s cd, massive difference

> > > > > > > more over you always take cd reduction trait so realistically its 24s cd.

> > > > > > > untraited roll has more then twice the cooldown bruh

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > edit there is also twist of fate, 75s cd vs 30s

> > > > > > > the CLOSEST thing I can think of is sand through glass, but that skill is just not right for use, undeveloped per say

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You're missing the point bud.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > We can discuss how unbelievably godlike and powerful Lightning Reflexes is, after the sloppy mechanic is fixed.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > To stress this point I mean like: Even if the skill were on a 10s or a 60s cd, it shouldn't get auto canceled by passive CC, regardless of its cd time or effects attached.

> > > > >

> > > > > The only hard CC I can think of that you get hit with by the damage portion of LR is Shocking Aura and Engi's shield stun. Full Counter will proc but not connect with you. Not exactly a game breaking issue.

> > > >

> > > > It gets auto CC'd by Shock Aura, Engi Shield Stun, and FLASHBANG. Considering that everyone and their brother runs an Engineer or Tempest nowadays, and that aura share puts Shock Aura on everyone in a team fight, yeah using Lightning Reflexes is a problem right now and it has been for quite some time. When you stack Flashbang on top of Engi Shield and stack it on top of Shock Aura share, yeah man it's a problem. But that's just discussing the issue with passive auto CCs. That's not even addressing the other things I had mentioned in my OP post.

> > > >

> > > > And the part about "Full Counter won't even hit you" is a naive thing to say. You probably don't have enough experience playing Ranger to understand that LR is not always used in a traditional manner where you go backwards 180 degrees from an opponent. Sometimes you have to use it while your back is against a wall or some other object, which means you get a short evade frame but don't go anywhere. Or if you LR and land near the Spellbreaker at the end of the LR when your evade frame is already used up. You also aren't considering team fights, where the Ranger LRing away from a Spellbreaker will trigger the FC to hit others when those players would have otherwise stopped aiming attacks at the Spellbreaker.

> > > >

> > > > This mechanical problem needs to be fixed. If this same problem were happening on a skill on the class that you play, you know you would agree with me.

> > >

> > > You going into a wall when using it is the same as complaining that it sent you off the a ledge or cliff; every case is your fault for poor positioning, not a flaw in the skill.

> >

> > You're still understanding/identifying with situations rangers get into. Example: at mid in forest, sometimes effects like spectral ring or ring of warding ect, will surround you but a certain side of it will clip into a wall. Normally using LR would make you hit the outside of Spectral Ring or Ward or Dragon's Maw, but if the side clips into the elevation, you can put your back to the wall and use LR without penalty.

> >

> > Argue all you want but don't parade as if you knew about maining Ranger.

> >

> > >

> > > Congrats, you hit the SpB with a damage skill that procs it and hits your team. That's literally applicable with any other skill that does similar things. Don't use it when a SpB is using FC right in front of you.

> >

> > That's not really the point bud. The point is that LR is an escape skill but for whatever reason has random tiny damage attached to it so that it ruins the cast. If this is intended then w/e, but if it wasn't intended to ruin LR usage, I'm simply pointing out to Arenanet that it is a problem. That damage could at least be substantial for all the mechanical problems it causes.

> >

> > >

> > > Are you really assuming that because I don't agree with you on this issue that I don't play the class? It sounds like you're just incapable of working around the skills functions and need to either stop using it or get over it.

> >

> > No, I assuming you don't play Ranger because you aren't identifying anything that a Ranger main would identify. All of the things you're saying is coming from a place of imagining & assumption, rather than experience.

> >

> >

>

> Why are you acting like this skill is ranger exclusive with its 'issues'? You know Roll for Initiative, Withdraw, and Riposting Shadows all function the same way and nobody cries about them because everyone understands the uses of these skills and uses them accordingly. So if we use them into a spectral ring, it's our fault and not the skill. Same applies when we're playing Ranger.

>

> If LR wasn't intended to have damage then Anet would have removed it ages ago. It's intended but you just don't like it.

>

> You're not identifying anything a Ranger would identify, you're arguing for the sake of your class over others because it's likely your favorite when the skill in question is arguably stronger than the equivalentones on other classes. 'Buff my class and nerf everything else.' Only here you've got the gall to argue people who don't agree aren't Ranger players. L2P or stop using LR, this is entirely your problem. You repeatedly claimed that Flashbang was an issue in relation to LR when it has no interaction with it at all, so you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

This forum thread isn't about those skills, it's about Lightning Reflexes. If you would like to make a thread involving those then feel free to do so.

Also, riposting shadows , withdraw and RFI on meta d/p? s/d with RFI / withdraw sure but s/d isnt even the meta pick. Yea, you still have a point but again this thread isn't about those skills. This doesn't mean it isn't acknowledged.

The crying "my skill does it too, what about mine so you shouldn't be able to change it and i shouldn't be left out too" never really solves anything and instead just makes you look like a baby in the middle of people trying to have an actual conversation on getting something productive done on either side of it getting changed or not changed.

It really just negates any kind of productivity that could be accomplished and turns it into more of a personal thing rather than an objective goal. This happens a lot in the forums, people put their bias against a class that may or may not be op or may or may not have op abilities and try to break down a proposal based on personal grudges with the class. For the most part this is fine because conversation usually results in nothing anyway, because they don't balance around people in the PVP forums. They balance around casual performance and people in the PVE forums.

Back to the actual topic, the reality is that LR is a meta pick no matter the build. You essentially need it, whether it's broken (broken != the only option, it happens to be really good but it also happens to be the only pick available for general build structure) or not negates the actual issue being presented in the thread but people get too blinded by something being busted they don't stop and entertain even the slightest open-mindedness regarding change.

this player is really bad at the game

> @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > @"Tinkerer.2167" said:

> > > @"Shiyo.3578" said:

> > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > > > > @"Sorem.9157" said:

> > > > > I'm more interested in what new sidenoder builds will rise now that the so dominant condi rev is significantly weaker. People say condi builds will be stronger but who knows, maybe side noding turns into a more aggressive meta and warriors start to pop around? Maybe soulbeast gets back into the scene? Condi, power? Hell, maybe even holosmith turns back into a more sidenodey meta, with the grenades and mobility nerfs. Honestly, right now it is impossible to say for sure.

> > > >

> > > > My guess is guard will be the next hated thing. And I suspect holo or scrapper will still be busted.

> > >

> > > Ranger and druid. They auto win any 1v1 regardless of either players skill.

> >

> > side node warrior is better than ranger atm , see vaanns gameplay and you'll see. you should understand ranger isn't build to WIN 1v1s , it's build to hold neut node/node position , this is philosophy of side node builds.... druid is trash at side node buddy , if you're losing to druid then you're just bad - i think even soulbeast is better at side node than core ranger at this point and druid is nowhere near either of them at side node.

> >

> > scrapper / warrior will be side node since crev is out due to resist nerfs .... ranger can win 1v1s in some occasions but it's not meta.

>

> wow people actually non ironically think warrior on side will be meta, what a time to be alive.

well i mean warrior being a side noder isn't something new, in the celestial meta shout war was probably the best option and with crev out , the only 2 options to possibly side node are warrior / scrapper at this point.

With the 50% nerf in crev abilities on resistance, is this enough to push it out and ranger/druid becoming the node meta? I've seen some decently built druid builds and core ranger has always been good on side and I think only have been overshadowed due to crev's presence. Nade holo will still be oppressive because the changes weren't much but still.

What are your thoughts?

can still stand still and generate 17 might , all i have to do is press 3 in forge and get 20+ might ... can still stack vuln to 25 passively consistently

> @"kraven.9578" said:

> > @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > > @"Kuma.1503" said:

> > > Nades are fine. Holo needs to be toned down.

> >

> > Is mortar fine too? that's holosmith too..no wait.....-_-

> >

>

> Are nades and mortar as powerful on Core and Scrapper as they are on Holo? No, they are not.

you can get the same dmg with nades on core ... the difference between holo and core nades isnt the damage. both can achieve same damage but with different trait lines.

> @"Turkeyspit.3965" said:

> > @"iKagura.1903" said:

> > do people actually use druid in wvw?

>

> Yes. Solo roaming, small squad, large squad. Yes.

>

> What is the meme reply to any complaint of a skill doing too much damage? jUsT dOdGe!

>

> Well, what if you can't....

>

> Ranger immob didn't get more powerful or anything, it's just that before it wasn't necessary because damage was so high - you didn't need to lock a person in place to burn them down when all you need to do was press about 3-4 buttons in quick succession.

>

> CC's are part of the game, but immobs are just obnoxious, and Druid immob is the worst of the lot by far. Does that make Druid in any way OP - of course not. Just the most obnoxious CC in the game.

>

> I get that players are happy for a reason to play Druid in WvW, but you don't want this crutch to be that reason. Demand real changes/reworks.

Solo roaming, small squad , so probably... 1-2% of the wvw population now since they killed off roaming years ago? They don't balance around solo roaming, small squad - to be honest I'm not sure even what they balance around anymore at this point.

You condi cleanse immob - you don't just dodge. This is the ironic answer to your meme question.

If you're in solo and small scale that's consistent to cleanse because there's not a massive amount of cover happening but in large zergs I can see your point because there's a lot of cover condis from a bunch of other classes so immob might not get cleansed consistently , but on the flipside you have a massive amount of more condi clears as well.

I just really don't think with all the guardians and necro theres a lot of immob since both convert condi / transfer condi / cleanse consistently not to mention the stab share (ancient seeds triggered from being cc'd and it's not unblockable so aegis also counters it). Ancient seeds has many counters, not just after you get immob'd but before with stability prior to cc and aegis - again this is more controllable in small scale/solo roaming.

I mean I think it's a pointless conversation to have anyway since **ranger is clearly not wvw zerg meta at ALL** and hasn't been for a long time if ever in the history of zerg meta/large scale. There's not a meta option for ranger literally at all since they nerfed druid support into the ground. It was always a better roamer.

It's nothing in PvP and in PvE it does it's job.

I think to clarify my original post, if Ancient seeds isn't 20sec icd in WvW then it should be, that should make it useless and nobody will bother taking it and of course druid wouldn't get anything in return but be just a slightly worse roamer even though most just run soulbeast because it's a far better roamer just from talking with top rangers on wvw. This is how it is in PvP, 20sec icd and it's absolutely useless but again , this is small scale where ancient seeds is controlled much easier.

> @"NecroSummonsMors.7816" said:

> New patch for necros:

> Intent:" We want to free wells from the trait so you can use them even without it, and they still feel usefull"

> Result: Vampiric wells build deleted, no protection for necro and allies, no self sustain siphoning via wells, old cooldowns and no way to reduce it. The old Vampiric Rituals GM replaced with a GM trait that has barely any use in competitive settings, considering that you are just better off by picking Unholy Martyr. In any other consideration Blood Bank makes you embrace what seems to be most hated things by the community which is comboing a healer with a necro thus increasing its tankyness to obnoxious levels. Be sure that if this gm ever finds its place in competitive it will be nerfed into oblivion.

>

> Really well of power and well of blood were that problematic to remove any possibility of reducing cooldown, 2 defensive utilies that had nothing to do with the problems of Aoe offensive spam in wvw?

> And the new revamped well of darkness reverted to old cd right away, just few moments after condi reaper saw a bit of light in pvp.

> Next time leave things as it is, just buff 1 single utility skill don't destroy an entire build with it

> This shows how they have zero vision for what they do, or at least it seemed they had but clearly are not able to implent it, since they don't foresee the scope of the changes they implent.

"Vampiric Rituals GM replaced with a GM trait that has barely any use in competitive settings, considering that you are just better off by picking Unholy Martyr."

This is relevant to almost every class in the game. Some classes literally need to go into a full trait just to get one trait. Stop complaining, this isn't a necro problem this is a across every class system balance problem.

do people actually use druid in wvw? delete a trait from all game modes because it overperforms in one? if it even overperforms? is it 20s icd in wvw like in pvp? if not make it like that in wvw?

that fixes it pretty much because it's literally useless in pvp and like you said if it's useless why bother with it. it would involve more dev time to add a GM to a class that is represented by almost nobody in pvp and only used in the PvE raid/fractal community. in their mind, druid is fine and balanced where it should be (PvE) and used a rare niche in pvp. almost ever meta class can cleanse immob consistently, even warrior can cleanse immob through movement skills and it's probably considered one of the worst classes in the game ATM. holo leap, dash thief, ws ranger, movement skills warrior, crev near perma resistance, any condi clear (esp if we're talking small scale and 1v1 where immob can be cleansed easily), etc etc... immob is annoying but it's not broken but like i said in pvp its a 20s icd so it may be different in WvW.

they won't just remove it, they'll just make it so bad that it's not even worth taking, which in anything outside of WvW (i dont play wvw so i cant even comment on this but given the average IQ of the wvw player it's most likely not good there either and people are just bad) isn't currently so i dont see why there needs to be a change. this most likely is not run in wvw zergs , probably roaming and gw2 doesn't balance around wvw roaming or 1v1 scenario.

and when i say useless pvp , i know some people will come in here and say "hey guys it works for me in pvp not my fault you're just not using it right!" ... no, against silvers/golds and low plat it CAN be done if your team is carrying. however, running it in inners with top players who actually have brains and pretty much focus druid immediately will destroy you.

have thoroughly tested multiple side node druid builds and support TF druid builds in top tier inners and tempest outperforms druid by miles with or without ancient seeds. side node will always have core ranger favor because of trait selection and like i said with TF druid , tempest always better.

> @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > @"iKagura.1903" said:

> > > @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > > > @"Excursion.9752" said:

> > > > One extreme to the next. This is anything but balance. This is a knee jerk reaction from a player base that does not know how to avoid red circles. They did need to rework the number of targets not completely gut it. If they are going to reduce the amount of targets for AOE's they need to have sweeping changes across the board. Even with healing.

> > > >

> > > > After watching the last live stream I thought just maybe they had a good understanding of how to balance the scourge. Boy was I wrong.

> > >

> > > When devs stream next time, camp them with power hammer revs and longbow soulbeasts. Oneshot them as soon as they go out of spawn.

> > > Perma immob them so they are never ever able to move again.

> > >

> > > Guess we just have to make it more obvious, what really is extremely overperforming atm

> >

> > except soulbeast doesn't have ancient seeds so they don't "perma immob" , that's druid - which is useless and even then they don't perma immob because aoe condi clear exists (and condi conversion to boons exist from who? voila! necros and guardians!).

>

> If you really think that soulbeast doesn't perma immob, you clearly have no clue how ranger works. Yes, druid has one more immob from traits, but that's not what I'm talking about.

> Most guild groups play soulbeast for the immob, because its more useful than a druid (or at least was more useful pre patch)

> An I already asked for that before the patch, and not only me.

>

> >

> > next time you type about classes and their specializations and the skills they have available to them you might want to make sure you actually understand what you're typing about before making blanket statements because you're upset they mis-managed your class.

> >

> > the "my stuff got nerfed so nerf some other kitten" excuse is boring, overplayed and the wrong way to go about getting your class's stuff added back into the game. it's especially funny because scourge has and always will be 100x more meta than any ranger spec in WvW and this has been that way since PoF dropped so it's just ironic that you would mention rangers to even begin with. even with nerfs scourge would still always be the more valuable pick over ranger.

> >

> > i think the obvious choice to camp the devs with would be the already STILL overperforming scourge so they nerf it more, right? let's also throw in the hammer backline rev, guardians and hell the scrapper and support spellbreaker as well.

> >

> > it's funny, but surely you notice, there isn't immob soulbeast (because it doesn't exist and ranger itself isn't even meta in wvw zerg).

> >

> > see this is why it's not cool to attack other classes because you're kitten about scourge getting some nerfs because you've been spoonfed a meta position in wvw for years now..

>

> And I also never said, that it wasn't the right choice to nerf scourge.

> Especially after the last patch, but both nerfs have been too much nerfing in my opinion.

> And 3 target shades have been a nerf already. I don't think they had enough data from just one day, to justify these nerfs.

> If they only increased well cooldowns again or only nerfed shade target cap ok. And then watch how it turns out, but not both at the same time.

>

> I don't complain that they nerfed scourge, I complain about how they did it.

>

except soulbeast isn't a meta pick in zerg , it's a niche pick and hardly if EVER used and no soulbeast can't keep perma immob like you said. as you have very independent sources of immob that don't synergize together and you have to use your heal to use one of them (lol) - people who actually know the class have explained the reason why your perma immob logic (especially on soulbeast lol) is flawed... you really just have no idea about ranger clearly from your original post where i corrected you on multiple things and continue to correct you along with other people.

i said it was wrong choice to nerf scourge the way they did because i also play it regardless of how you feel, but to actually ATTEMPT to try and put ranger up next to necro in wvw zerg importance because of immobilization and to actually try and attempt a "what about-ism" with ranger in regards to scourge nerfs and then on top of it get your builds all mixed up and not even know some traits don't work with other specializations is unwise and foolish. you actually tried to say that soulbeast ranger is more busted in wvw zerg than scourge and to camp devs with that instead because then they'd see who truly is the op class - this is just laughable.

you've proven both that you don't know how to actually properly ask for balance recognition on your own class but try and attack another class that is mostly reserved purely for wvw roaming and not zerg play is again, foolish.

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> @"iKagura.1903"

> I don't think being toxic by camping a dev in WvW is the best way to communicate with them.

exactly, that was kind of my point and why i told the guy who wanted to it wasn't the best way to get your class balanced. you can't read much can you

> @"Lilyanna.9361" said:

> Well this could have been solved very easily if Anet didn't pull a move to nerf boon strip. If we had the same amount of boon strip as we did boon creation we wouldn't complaining about Crev, for example.

>

> I notice when I play my meme condi core mesmer and adjust my build to strip boons more the Crevs die WAY faster than without it. Issue is I'm sacrificing too much just to counter ONE class. It shouldn't be this way.

>

> My second biggest gripe is the fact that A LOT of the Mallyx skills hardly have animations. I can only maybe dodge one or two noteworthy skills while any other ones I'm taking a guess on because there's nothing visually anticipate. I am a visual person and need that cue or I'll simply miss my opportunity to dodge entirely

boon rip isn't an issue because crev is hardly ever in team fights, it's a strict side noder so it's usually 1v1's and +1's that occur unless you mean giving boon rip to literally every class so they can fight a op meta build atm then sure. in team fights resistance can be stripped easily but this isn't where crev shines so it's irrelevant and can be easily overpressured once glint is used up.

this is mainly why op is complaining because he's a condi mesmer who is a far bot and his build is hard countered by resistance.

> @"Lighter.5631" said:

> > @"iKagura.1903" said:

>

> > anybody running lb/gs in a bunker build for decap is dumb and you thinking lb would ever be a good decap ranger option highlights how much you just really don't know about the class.

>

> yea, i don't play ranger, so i don't know except all the top 100 core ranger side noder i've countered in match are gs/long unless something happened this week.

> sure you can keep telling me how sword/dagger is better decap build now.

>

> but does it change the fact that longbow/gs can decap warrior with 0 effect? no. so it doesn't make my original post less credible, so you are basically arguing for nothing really.

> actually it helps in my favor how the you called "roamer/+1 build" can decap a warrior easily.

> also now i know there's a even better build to decap warrior, that actually reinforce my original post, nice.

>

>

>

the problem is you're attacking one build when warrior is pretty much inferior to every build in the meta currently at multiple roles it could accomplish, so you might as well not even attach a class to your argument. also, ranger isn't even meta because crev is better at it's role (hence why most top teams run it now). the approach that attacking just one class with one build that you didn't even get correctly to try and prove a point that warrior is bad is a bad approach was all im saying. ranger isn't your issue, it's a lot of things with the class as a whole.

@"Axl.8924" hammer isn't that good because the cc doesn't come with dmg anymore, if it did it could be a decent pick in niche builds... the only thing you could somewhat make useful with hammer is with axe maybe using leg specialist but immob gets cleared by most meta builds easily (holo 2 leap, dash thief, ws ranger w/ LR, etc) and i mean it's a super weird niche build , shout aoe to heal for offensive team support w/ annoying immob & cc is the only thing i think could work with hammer.

> @"Lighter.5631" said:

> > @"iKagura.1903" said:

> > > @"Lighter.5631" said:

> > > lack of utilities and versatility.

> > >

> > > a side node warrior build can not

> > > throw nades and does huge aoe damage in mid team fight(current side node holo build)

> > > suck conditions off teammates, aoe resistance, aoe pulsing conditions ( condi rev)

> > > does huge aoe damage, lich in mid fight ( reaper/core necro)

> > > throw huge aoe buffs, projectil reflect, aoe damages, aoe CC (symbalbrand that can also play sidenode)

> > >

> > > a side node warrior can only side node.

> > > yet ranger will be able to decap with knockbacks, and have the option to pressure mid with longbow and pet without fully committing mid.

> > >

> > > a warrior not necessary bad at fighting another class, but it just doesnt bring anything for how limited it is in builds. a teamfight warrior can not win side node, a sidenode warrior does very little in team fight. most other classes can sidenode and provide good value in teamfight, 2v2 3v3 at the same time.

> >

> > except decap ranger doesn't run longbow and hardly "roams mid" because they're useless in TF, decap runs sword/dagger gs ... lb/gs is an entirely different build attuned to roaming and +1ing and would never be able to side node. there's a reason why lb isn't good for decapping, it's only defense is an invisibility shot that stealths you and is easily pressurable. sitting on node with lb is basically suicide regardless of the knockback.

> >

> > not saying warrior is in a good spot but to try and make a "what about-ism" against ranger and get the builds completely messed up doesn't help your cause, just ask for buffs without attacking something else.

> >

> > the only person i've seen be able to even work against decaps is vaanns and even then it's a struggle and a stalemate but then again side nodes are basically stales until a +1 occurs anyway.

>

> what are you even talking about. longbow/gs alone is easy decap from warrior.

> and has been the go to side node build in plat+ soloq game since feb.

core decap ranger with sword/dagger gs is the best decap build in the game atm. lb roaming gs with zerker soulbeast with gazelle is the roaming/+1 meta build essentially.

the build you're most likely referring to is the power survival build running ws , zerker ammy with lb/gs or you're referring to sic'em sniper (above) with one wolf pack which also runs zerker, neither are decap builds , they're roamer/+1 and basically assigned to hunting enemy thieves.

anybody running lb/gs in a bunker build for decap is dumb and you thinking lb would ever be a good decap ranger option highlights how much you just really don't know about the class.

> @"Lighter.5631" said:

> lack of utilities and versatility.

>

> a side node warrior build can not

> throw nades and does huge aoe damage in mid team fight(current side node holo build)

> suck conditions off teammates, aoe resistance, aoe pulsing conditions ( condi rev)

> does huge aoe damage, lich in mid fight ( reaper/core necro)

> throw huge aoe buffs, projectil reflect, aoe damages, aoe CC (symbalbrand that can also play sidenode)

>

> a side node warrior can only side node.

> yet ranger will be able to decap with knockbacks, and have the option to pressure mid with longbow and pet without fully committing mid.

>

> a warrior not necessary bad at fighting another class, but it just doesnt bring anything for how limited it is in builds. a teamfight warrior can not win side node, a sidenode warrior does very little in team fight. most other classes can sidenode and provide good value in teamfight, 2v2 3v3 at the same time.

except decap ranger doesn't run longbow and hardly "roams mid" because they're useless in TF, decap runs sword/dagger gs ... lb/gs is an entirely different build attuned to roaming and +1ing and would never be able to side node. there's a reason why lb isn't good for decapping, it's only defense is an invisibility shot that stealths you and is easily pressurable. sitting on node with lb is basically suicide regardless of the knockback.

not saying warrior is in a good spot but to try and make a "what about-ism" against ranger and get the builds completely messed up doesn't help your cause, just ask for buffs without attacking something else.

the only person i've seen be able to even work against decaps is vaanns and even then it's a struggle and a stalemate but then again side nodes are basically stales until a +1 occurs anyway.

the only pet putting out too much dmg is the jacaranda and it's one skill - their aoe, literally every other pet is trash and/or used as PURE utility and not damage. birds are glassy and deal a lot of dmg, but the tradeoff is they can be killed with the amount of hp they have VERY easily.

since core ranger can run jacaranda , it's aoe makes up for the lack of dmg the kit actually has all together so it seems "busted with dmg" when it's just 1 gimmicky aoe skill from their pet. if you nerf that you basically make core ranger automatically node pressurable by 100% which lowers it's efficiency by alot. it would basically put it out of the meta more than already slowly is with crev and nade holo existing.

> @"Anchoku.8142" said:

> > @"iKagura.1903" said:

> > > @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > > > @"Excursion.9752" said:

> > i think the obvious choice to camp the devs with would be the already STILL overperforming scourge so they nerf it more, right? see this is why it's not cool to attack other classes because you're kitten about scourge getting some nerfs.

>

> Necro mains are not upset by WvW nerfs. The developers created a meta where 8 professions rely on boons and one profession is supposed to counter that.

>

> Necro mains _are_ upset about Arenanet replacing grandmaster traits that were balanced (not over performing) with trash traits _outside_ of WvW.

>

> Don't criticize professions you do not main, either. The developers left Scourge with a 2-person cleave on shades. This means it will take 2 or 3 times as many Necromancer's, mostly Reaper and core, in a blob to counter boon spam.

>

> Arenanet failed in this WvW balance patch because they were not aggressive enough in reducing boon sharing. Those players still using Necro in WvW should find more stability to corrupt into fear. The dev's will remain as confused as ever.

Please highlight where I said what the devs did is right or the correct thing? Also, please highlight where I criticize scourge at all and mention traits that aren't possible and try to say it's a busted build like the person my response was to did? If you actually read my response you'll notice I didn't criticize necro or scourge at all and even said that Anet mis-managed necro in these nerfs. **Please learn to read before you respond and not immediately assume everybody is trash talking your class. Thanks**

That's right you won't find it, because I didn't criticize it.

> @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > @"Excursion.9752" said:

> > One extreme to the next. This is anything but balance. This is a knee jerk reaction from a player base that does not know how to avoid red circles. They did need to rework the number of targets not completely gut it. If they are going to reduce the amount of targets for AOE's they need to have sweeping changes across the board. Even with healing.

> >

> > After watching the last live stream I thought just maybe they had a good understanding of how to balance the scourge. Boy was I wrong.

>

> When devs stream next time, camp them with power hammer revs and longbow soulbeasts. Oneshot them as soon as they go out of spawn.

> Perma immob them so they are never ever able to move again.

>

> Guess we just have to make it more obvious, what really is extremely overperforming atm

except soulbeast doesn't have ancient seeds so they don't "perma immob" , that's druid - which is useless and even then they don't perma immob because aoe condi clear exists (and condi conversion to boons exist from who? voila! necros and guardians!).

next time you type about classes and their specializations and the skills they have available to them you might want to make sure you actually understand what you're typing about before making blanket statements because you're upset they mis-managed your class.

the "my stuff got nerfed so nerf some other shit" excuse is boring, overplayed and the wrong way to go about getting your class's stuff added back into the game. it's especially funny because scourge has and always will be 100x more meta than any ranger spec in WvW and this has been that way since PoF dropped so it's just ironic that you would mention rangers to even begin with. even with nerfs scourge would still always be the more valuable pick over ranger.

i think the obvious choice to camp the devs with would be the already STILL overperforming scourge so they nerf it more, right? let's also throw in the hammer backline rev, guardians and hell the scrapper and support spellbreaker as well.

it's funny, but surely you notice, there isn't immob soulbeast (because it doesn't exist and ranger itself isn't even meta in wvw zerg).

see this is why it's not cool to attack other classes because you're butthurt about scourge getting some nerfs because you've been spoonfed a meta position in wvw for years now..

"overperforming"

> @"mistsim.2748" said:

> > @"iKagura.1903" said:

> > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> > > > @"ollbirtan.2915" said:

> > > > > @"mistsim.2748" said:

> > > > > > @"ollbirtan.2915" said:.

> > > > > > As for druid, currently it has lots of self sustain and disengage, and don't even get me started on that kitten perma immob trapper build which sees plays not only in wvw but in spvp too.

> > > > >

> > > > > It's a low tier build in spvp. It does very little damage, and it's mostly just known for being "annoying". It can't bunker, it can't side-note, it has less than mediocre teamfight. It's completely ineffectual against the better players in Plat+, but I can see how Gold players and below can be impressed by it.

> > > > >

> > > > > Oops didn't see Trevor wrote the same.

> > > >

> > > > Where do you see me being 'impressed' by the said build? I'm merely pointing out some of the fallacies and biases that from OP's original post.

> > >

> > > Yeah

> > >

> > > I guess the top 100 on both NA and EU and all the MAT teams must be biased.

> > >

> > > Because for some reason, despite how impressively strong the Druid is, none of them are using it.

> >

> > Ah yes, ive seen this with soulbeast as well... godlike dps, godlike defenses, insanely busted and can move to each side of the map blazingly fast, godlike roamer / +1'er.

> >

> > but everyone runs nade holo / crev. top tier players and meta users must be stupid!!

> >

> > **MASSIVE SHRUG**

>

> But there are top players running Soulbeast and Core.

since the mota and the realization that crev is better in all aspects over core bunker / sb bunker most have moved off to crev - it is just better in all ways compared to it ... shadowfall might be the only ranger player left that is actually top level, this is in pvp though, can't say for wvw.

this shit is going to be so abused in pvp lol

helio doesn t solo q , too much risk and on try hard accounts only runs nade holo / crev and nothing else because nothing else hard carries like those 2 builds.