Bellbirds.1679

> @"Strider Pj.2193" said: > > @"Bellbirds.1679" said: > > > @"Strider Pj.2193" said: > > > > @"Bellbirds.1679" said: > > > > > @"Strider Pj.2193" said: > > > > > > @"Bellbirds.1679" said: > > > > > > > @"Svarty.8019" said: > > > > > > > Ehm... What if they're trying to fix exploitable issues? Do they tell us there are 20 exploitable issues to encourage nefarious people to look for them, especially if they've previously revealed that the team is extremely small? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On the other hand, what if they've got a BIG team, and aren't fixing bugs to your expectations? What then? It seems silly to be transparent on this issue. > > > > > > > > > > > > To your first question: A bug like that will 1) have spread like wildfire already an 2)be fixed practically ASAP, not to mention server rollbacks can and have been done due to exploits, and even if they're unpleasant, they are a way to mitigate damage. > > > > > > > > > > I take it you do not play WvW. > > > > > > > > > > The desert BL was released more than 4 years ago. There are currently exploits available that have been available since it was released that have been reported multiple times. No fewer than two of which could be solved with a small invisible wall, or a tweak to a wall texture. > > > > > > > > > > Then, when you realize how many maps in PvE have been ‘fixed’ to prevent map breaking with invisible walls normally within 2-3 months of the map being released.., > > > > > > > > > > So.. before you say it will : > > > > > > > > > > > A bug like that will 1) have spread like wildfire already an 2)be fixed practically ASAP > > > > > > > > > > Realize that they wont be fixed that quickly. Or at all. > > > > > > > > I do play WvW and I was mostly thinking of PvE in this post. > > > > > > As most people who play GW2, you didn’t think about how it impacts WvW. You aren’t alone. > > > > > > The point was: they won’t release a list of exploits being worked on because they would have to include all areas, or the outrage from the areas they leave out would be even more palpable than it is now. > > > > > > And to include those exploits, means people would have a visible way to use them and continue to exploit those issues. > > > > I did think of WvW. In fact, this would benefit WvW greatly. There would be a lot less frustration if people in the WvW community knew that while the bug fix was taking a while, it has been acknowledged. > > Alliances was ‘acknowledged’. And what good has that done? Three years running with the last official update post being two years ago. And you wonder why people who play that mode primarily are... lets just say frustrated. > > > If you really want to keep massive exploits more under wraps, fine, just make those the exception. I really don't see how there could be any valid argument against more communication from the devs. > > This isn’t about communication from the devs. Look at the developer tracker. Just look at it. The posts from developers in official capacities in at least the last two months have been to post game update threads and bug fixes. That’s it. There are plenty of opportunities to ‘communicate’ with us. They have made an organizational decision to not communicate. > > > There will be outrage eitherway, especially from the sorts of players I most often see in WvW. > > So., you’d be OK with a public forum showing ALL of the exploits available in a (admittedly limited) competitive mode? > > Since the answer to that is yes, I guess I have heard enough. > The stuff you are using as an argument against my point is literally the stuff I'm calling for to be fixed. I also said exploits in competitive modes could be left out to avoid them spreading faster, although I don't think it would do much at the point, exploits spread fast. You're also assuming a lot about what my 'answer' would be which doesn't help the discussion.

> @"Strider Pj.2193" said: > > @"Bellbirds.1679" said: > > > @"Strider Pj.2193" said: > > > > @"Bellbirds.1679" said: > > > > > @"Svarty.8019" said: > > > > > Ehm... What if they're trying to fix exploitable issues? Do they tell us there are 20 exploitable issues to encourage nefarious people to look for them, especially if they've previously revealed that the team is extremely small? > > > > > > > > > > On the other hand, what if they've got a BIG team, and aren't fixing bugs to your expectations? What then? It seems silly to be transparent on this issue. > > > > > > > > To your first question: A bug like that will 1) have spread like wildfire already an 2)be fixed practically ASAP, not to mention server rollbacks can and have been done due to exploits, and even if they're unpleasant, they are a way to mitigate damage. > > > > > > I take it you do not play WvW. > > > > > > The desert BL was released more than 4 years ago. There are currently exploits available that have been available since it was released that have been reported multiple times. No fewer than two of which could be solved with a small invisible wall, or a tweak to a wall texture. > > > > > > Then, when you realize how many maps in PvE have been ‘fixed’ to prevent map breaking with invisible walls normally within 2-3 months of the map being released.., > > > > > > So.. before you say it will : > > > > > > > A bug like that will 1) have spread like wildfire already an 2)be fixed practically ASAP > > > > > > Realize that they wont be fixed that quickly. Or at all. > > > > I do play WvW and I was mostly thinking of PvE in this post. > > As most people who play GW2, you didn’t think about how it impacts WvW. You aren’t alone. > > The point was: they won’t release a list of exploits being worked on because they would have to include all areas, or the outrage from the areas they leave out would be even more palpable than it is now. > > And to include those exploits, means people would have a visible way to use them and continue to exploit those issues. I did think of WvW. In fact, this would benefit WvW greatly. There would be a lot less frustration if people in the WvW community knew that while the bug fix was taking a while, it has been acknowledged. If you really want to keep massive exploits more under wraps, fine, just make those the exception. I really don't see how there could be any valid argument against more communication from the devs. There will be outrage eitherway, especially from the sorts of players I most often see in WvW.

> @"kharmin.7683" said: > > @"Bellbirds.1679" said: > > > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > > > @"Bellbirds.1679" said: > > > > > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > > > > Weren't we told before that with the state of the old, spaghetti code that fixing some things may very well break other things even worse than the issue that was initially targeted? Or that there is no good idea on what else might break when fixing some other bugs? > > > > > > > > That's not really an excuse to not tackle bugs, especially recent ones on thing that have been in the game since launch. If that is the case for a bug they should be open about it. > > > > > > I think that it is if it would take too many resources to make it worth the effort. /shrug > > > > I think companies massively undervalue communication and transparency with the community, as well as showing that they care about the game by keeping it well maintained. You may not think it worth the effort, but as this thread is showing there is a big interest in transparency and honesty. > > These forums represent such a small portion of the entire player base that it cannot be said that there is a big interest in anything. Also, I don't know how long you've been around but in the past Anet has been excoriated for communicating to the players and then not providing the stated results. It's bad PR when people on the official forums call Anet devs "liars". I don't fault them for the lack of communication. The community shares a good part of the blame for that. It may be a small portion of the playerbase but it's not that far fetched to extrapolate that people outside the forums will have equal interest. I see similar sentiments on GW2/reddit youtube channels as well. I've been around practically since launch so I know the history Anet has. I don't think some people calling them liars is a valid reason to shut down communications. That only makes their image suffer more.

> @"Strider Pj.2193" said: > > @"Bellbirds.1679" said: > > > @"Svarty.8019" said: > > > Ehm... What if they're trying to fix exploitable issues? Do they tell us there are 20 exploitable issues to encourage nefarious people to look for them, especially if they've previously revealed that the team is extremely small? > > > > > > On the other hand, what if they've got a BIG team, and aren't fixing bugs to your expectations? What then? It seems silly to be transparent on this issue. > > > > To your first question: A bug like that will 1) have spread like wildfire already an 2)be fixed practically ASAP, not to mention server rollbacks can and have been done due to exploits, and even if they're unpleasant, they are a way to mitigate damage. > > I take it you do not play WvW. > > The desert BL was released more than 4 years ago. There are currently exploits available that have been available since it was released that have been reported multiple times. No fewer than two of which could be solved with a small invisible wall, or a tweak to a wall texture. > > Then, when you realize how many maps in PvE have been ‘fixed’ to prevent map breaking with invisible walls normally within 2-3 months of the map being released.., > > So.. before you say it will : > > > A bug like that will 1) have spread like wildfire already an 2)be fixed practically ASAP > > Realize that they wont be fixed that quickly. Or at all. I do play WvW and I was mostly thinking of PvE in this post.

> @"mercury ranique.2170" said: > > @"Bellbirds.1679" said: > > > @"mercury ranique.2170" said: > > > > @"Bellbirds.1679" said: > > > > > @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said: > > > > > Personally, I'd rather they work on the upcoming expansion. /shrug > > > > > > > > > > Lots of things aren't as often as they used to be since the pandemic and the work on the expansion. > > > > > > > > But if you don't sort out the bugs, even slowly, they WILL mount up. That's why separate depeartments exist anyway. The group of devs fixing bugs aren't the devs making the new expac. > > > > > > This is most likely not true. You have a Q/A department who gather and document bugs. they can fix some common bugs that are easy to fix. In many cases the bug fix is done by the department that created the content. I do not think a lot of crunching happen at Arenanet, but when a release approaches the focus will be more and more on the deadline and less on existing content. Obviouly, after the release there is more room to fix all bugs, old and new. > > > > Could you provide sources for this? A lot/all of what you're saying just sounds like speculation. > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITIL With all due respect, as interesting as that read is, it's still just a wikipedia page. It's a possibility Anet is set up like that, but not a certainty. Still, good read! Learned something new

> @"ElijahFitzroy.5762" said: > Deleted this post May I ask why?

> @"kharmin.7683" said: > > @"Bellbirds.1679" said: > > > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > > Weren't we told before that with the state of the old, spaghetti code that fixing some things may very well break other things even worse than the issue that was initially targeted? Or that there is no good idea on what else might break when fixing some other bugs? > > > > That's not really an excuse to not tackle bugs, especially recent ones on thing that have been in the game since launch. If that is the case for a bug they should be open about it. > > I think that it is if it would take too many resources to make it worth the effort. /shrug I think companies massively undervalue communication and transparency with the community, as well as showing that they care about the game by keeping it well maintained. You may not think it worth the effort, but as this thread is showing there is a big interest in transparency and honesty.

> @"mercury ranique.2170" said: > > @"Bellbirds.1679" said: > > > @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said: > > > Personally, I'd rather they work on the upcoming expansion. /shrug > > > > > > Lots of things aren't as often as they used to be since the pandemic and the work on the expansion. > > > > But if you don't sort out the bugs, even slowly, they WILL mount up. That's why separate depeartments exist anyway. The group of devs fixing bugs aren't the devs making the new expac. > > This is most likely not true. You have a Q/A department who gather and document bugs. they can fix some common bugs that are easy to fix. In many cases the bug fix is done by the department that created the content. I do not think a lot of crunching happen at Arenanet, but when a release approaches the focus will be more and more on the deadline and less on existing content. Obviouly, after the release there is more room to fix all bugs, old and new. Could you provide sources for this? A lot/all of what you're saying just sounds like speculation.

> @"kharmin.7683" said: > Weren't we told before that with the state of the old, spaghetti code that fixing some things may very well break other things even worse than the issue that was initially targeted? Or that there is no good idea on what else might break when fixing some other bugs? That's not really an excuse to not tackle bugs, especially recent ones on thing that have been in the game since launch. If that is the case for a bug they should be open about it.

> @"Svarty.8019" said: > Ehm... What if they're trying to fix exploitable issues? Do they tell us there are 20 exploitable issues to encourage nefarious people to look for them, especially if they've previously revealed that the team is extremely small? > > On the other hand, what if they've got a BIG team, and aren't fixing bugs to your expectations? What then? It seems silly to be transparent on this issue. To your first question: A bug like that will 1) have spread like wildfire already an 2)be fixed practically ASAP, not to mention server rollbacks can and have been done due to exploits, and even if they're unpleasant, they are a way to mitigate damage. To your second: transparency is a incentive to NOT have this happen. I also really doubt ANET would pay a huge team that isn't getting results. Your argument makes no sense to me.

> @"Pacificterror.7805" said: > I'll speak from a general perspective in this post - this is not talking about GW2 specifically: > > Realistically with any game, there's typically a team to deal with existing content and a team to deal with yet-to-be-released content. The trouble with stuff that's broken, not working as intended or not working the way a player would like is fixing or tweaking it in a way that doesn't cause a million other problems in the process. > > There's also the issue that from a dev perspective, fixing stuff tends to be pretty frustrating, boring, and above all unfulfilling. That doesn't mean it shouldn't get done, but it does usually lead to what gets fixed being cherry picked.....the stuff that's easier to fix, the interesting/fun challenge, etc etc - on top of stuff that's seen as an "urgent issue", obviously. > > It's really not more complex than that in my opinion. There'll always be people making random excuses like "They're busy working on new content" (even though that kind of stuff has a dedicated team) or "They know what's important and are dealing with stuff in the order that needs to be done" (which can be true in a way....but it's usually more about addressing stuff that you can either get out of the way with less effort or doesn't make you want to quit your job)...and there'll be people on the opposite end of the spectrum thinking absolutely nothing gets done (which is why you ask for transparency, of course). > > Next time you look at a particular bug you hate, instead of thinking it's getting ignored, picture a guy that has set aside time for the last x amount of weeks trying to sort it out for you but every fix just causes 1000 worse bugs in that 1 bug's place. Again, not saying I have an issue with waiting for the fix, I just want to know if it'll be fixed eventually :) I know it's a difficult job

> @"lokh.2695" said: > At this point, I doubt that we can get transparency from ANet. Should they decide to ever comunicate with the community again it will most likely be shallow marketing speak. For that I don't need an ANet official. I can create my own marketing speak. > > "[enter your desired content] is definitely on the table and we're looking into it." > "we might not bring [whatever floats your boat] to GW2 this year, but we're not writing it off either." > "we've been working hard on [the next big thing] and we're sure it will bring something new to the game." > "we are working on [whatever you feel is missing] but there are issues that we want to fix before going into the details." Yeah...the thing is, Anet needs to realise literally everyone sees right through this.

> @"Danikat.8537" said: > > @"Bellbirds.1679" said: > > > @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said: > > > Probably aren't going to offer the size of the QA Team or Devs that might work on a particular bug. > > > The Known Issue Tracker automation broke some time ago; doesn't seem like there's anyone available to hand-curate it presently. > > > Bugs are prioritized, and only so much resource to go around. What you might find important may not be to others. > > > Also, some bugs will never be fixed as fixing them only creates more bugs. > > > > > > It would be nice if it worked and was accurate, but it's certainly not game-breaking for me. Can learn mostly what's going on from the Support forums. > > > > In that case I really think they should assign someone to hand-curate it. It would be a great improvement imo. > > I was assigned an almost identical tasks as part of my work not that long ago. It lasted less than a month before being dropped for being a huge waste of time. There's no one person who is involved in identifying and fixing all the problems, so I was constantly having to ask around to find out who was working on it and then chase them for updates so I could update the tracker. After a few weeks (when it was never completely up to date) we agreed it would be better to spend that time on actually fixing things instead of trying to record what was being fixed. (It was another few months after that before most of the people I was doing this for noticed it wasn't being updated any more, so it clearly wasn't that important for them either.) > > It's possible Anet have a better internal system for keeping track of who is doing what than my employer (it certainly wouldn't be difficult), but if not I suspect they're in a similar situation - having to weigh up the benefits of dedicating a chunk of someone's time to keeping track of what work is being done vs. using it to actually do the work. I think the issue there is with the inefficient system you used. Why not have an online dev hub where devs can quickly note down the bugs they're aware of/fixing and then one individual can be in charge with checking it for accuracy and updating the playerbase. This would also perhaps make use of a search feature so devs can quickly search for bugs to see if another dev has seen it/the status of it/info. I take issue with you considering this wasted time/not doing 'actual' work. Communication with your playerbase is essential to harbour trust in the service and some sense of 'connection' between dev/company and player, as this will make someone more likely to want to support the company monentarily.

> @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said: > > @"Bellbirds.1679" said: > > > @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said: > > > Personally, I'd rather they work on the upcoming expansion. /shrug > > > > > > Lots of things aren't as often as they used to be since the pandemic and the work on the expansion. > > > > But if you don't sort out the bugs, even slowly, they WILL mount up. That's why separate depeartments exist anyway. The group of devs fixing bugs aren't the devs making the new expac. > > You think there aren't expansion bugs encountered whilst working on the expansion? You may be interested to watch Guild Chat and hear about some of the bugs that never made it to releases. Some quite comical, some very vexing. Sure. But it would be outright irresponsible to neglect the existing content while you work on the expac. What kind of taste would that leave in the mouths of potential buyers of the new expac? And as I said, I don't mind waiting, what I mind is the lack of transparency.

> @"Donari.5237" said: > As I recall, the reason humans got so many new faces and hairs with PoF was because those were designed for the Elonan NPCs and it was an easy port over to add them to player character creation. So ANet decided to give us those even though they didn't have similar offerings for the other races, and they even put them in base creation instead of paid kits. I appreciate them doing so. No matter how much I'd like *all* the races to get a slew of new, good quality options, I'd rather get some new things than none at all. (Now if only they'd give us all the Elonan NPC clothing too). > > I do hope that part of EoD is in fact a big overhaul or at least expansion of character creation choices. I understand that. I do wish they'd release things like the olmakhan cub body type.