zinkz.7045

> @"Zodi.8932" said: > It’s left me feeling frustrated and made me realise that Gw2 PvP is just not on the same level as ESO or other mmos. ESO has terrible PvP, even by the low standards of MMOs, not least because for some bizarre reason they went with 3 teams in a match rather than 2 teams, which basically renders battlegrounds busted on a fundamental level. ESO also has the magnificent achievement of despite being 2 years younger than GW2 of having even less players still playing Cyrodil than this game has in WvW, which tells you how bad that is. And I hate to break it to you, but PvP in MMOs is basically a failure anyway. I guess as a weird niche for psychotic accountants EVE Online does its thing quite well, but the small team instanced PvP that laughably gets described as skilled or competitive, is an utter joke across the board compared to team based shooters, RTS, MOBAs, etc, which is why hardly anyone plays PvP in MMOs. > This game mode does not really allow much individual skill to effect the outcome. It relies so heavily on a team playing well as a team together and rotating effectively. Which is the reason their implementation of conquest is one of the few actual skilled PvP game modes in MMOs, because if you remove rotations, map awareness, the extra teamwork, etc then you are basically left with the combat and teamwork related to that and nothing else, which is not particularly skilled. I realise the typical MMORPG player thinks the combat = skill, but the reality is the combat in MMORPGs (even "action" ones) is not hugely skilled, for example it does not require high levels of mechanical ability like an RTS, fighting game, decent shooter, etc. Then add balance is generally terrible because they are "balancing" for instanced PvP, mass scale PvP, dungeons, raids, etc, so cheese carries very, very hard (ESO is next level bad in this regard). And then perhaps most importantly of all, because the PvP playerbase is so small in these games you have players in the same match who would never face each other in a MOBA, shooter, RTS, etc, which clueless MMORPG players confuse with "skill". If anything GW2 is one of the only MMOs that at least at some point had PvP with some level of meaningful skill / competition about it, ESO (or most MMOs) never has.

> @"KrHome.1920" said: > > @"mzmz.6289" said: > > everytime the fights end in less than 1min, doesnt matter how many ppl you have. imagine you r in the ts with crowded ppl, and you just get run over and die in a sec. > Well, if another group runs over your group, then I know at least one group that doesn't share your "no game experience". The only people who don't find that a "no game experience" are roleplayers, which granted is pretty much anyone or any guild still playing WvW regularly at this point. For anyone who even vaguely values decent PvP (i.e a PvP gamer), rolling over another group is still a "no game experience". Which basically highlights why WvW (and RvR in general) is such a miserable failure. A "PvP" game that doesn't actually appeal to PvP gamers, as most of the time the PvP is boring, low skilled, one sided trash, because it lacks the mechanisms to produce competitive PvP on any regular basis.

> @"Novahh.7426" said: > Lol ~~Rangers in ~~WvW I've corrected that for you.

Seems we have a lot of new players here. The combat, class skills/traits, mechanics, etc were originally designed around PvP, because Anet's original "vision" was PvP was the serious bit, whilst PvE / WvW were the casual fun (they even made a virtue of the game not having "toxic" raids). Which is why early in the game when the devs (Jon Peters, etc) used to do Twitch streams going through the balance patches, the vast majority of the changes were justified in relation to the PvP meta. It is also why Sacrx a "famous" WvW player who was in alpha, made a notorious video about the neglect of WvW from Anet, which included how pre-launch WvW (and PvE) were basically ignored in regard to design / balance for combat and the only feedback the devs gave any consideration to was what Teldo & Co thought in PvP. PvP remained the focus (in terms of combat, balance, etc) until they decided to add "serious" PvE to the game with HoT. So in terms of combat (mechanics, class skills, traits, etc), GW2 was very much originally designed with PvP as the focus.