Sir Vincent III.1286
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Posts posted by Sir Vincent III.1286
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> @"saerni.2584" said:
> I think to make Trickery less overwhelmingly preferred, I’d add in initiative gain mechanics in other traitlines and replace the initiative on steal trait from Trickery. That way we get more pool from Trickery but aren’t able to refill it faster as well. We can also make initiative gain a cross traitline design so different kinds of gameplay can generate initiative. (Right now it is just weapon swap and steal that can generate initiative through traits).
There used to be a trait in CS that replenishes initiatives per crit hits (Opportunist), but they removed it, which cause the builds to gravitate towards Trickery as the only reliable initiative replenishing traitline.
My first P/P build uses Ricochet and Opportunist and you can imagine the massive initiatives I can gain per Unload when each bouncing bullets crits. I used to shred a group of Warriors and Guardians with just the Unload since I practically don't ran out of bullets. Now Unload can replenish initiatives but it can easily be denied.
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> @"saerni.2584" said:
> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > @"saerni.2584" said:
> > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > > @"saerni.2584" said:
> > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > > > Add can't be hit with crits while revealed, add 1 sec to revealed when FS is taken. Make SS heal for 850 and addition heal % increase for each tele performed within a allotted time frame with a cap of 4000 and add 3 seconds of regen or prot after each tele.
> > > > > > Those would be good no?
> > > > >
> > > > > Can’t be hit with crit would be a lot stronger than just 33% damage reduction.
> > > > >
> > > > > Adding 1 second to self reveal would be bad. This trait mitigates a detrimental debuff. I don’t want to be revealed for too long so I can regain stealth after all.
> > > >
> > > > Yeah the extra sec was to balance out the no crits while revealed and to make flickering shadows actually feel impactful lol. Was just ideas lol
> > >
> > > It’s a fair idea, but I worry about adding trade offs that may make the trait unusable in practice.
> >
> > I was thinking I'd be also a slight buff as traits like revealed training would be active for the extended revealed duration as well
>
> Revealed training is pretty weak. They split the power gain between reveal and normal. So you really only gain an extra 80 power from being revealed.
>
I think you misunderstood it. It's +80 normal and +200 when revealed (80+120), so you gain +120 when revealed. Their goal is to give power when not revealed but not making it over the +200 bonus, that's why they split it that way. It's very similar to Dagger Training, +80 with one dagger and +160 with both daggers (80+80).
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> @"Drizzt.1796" said:
> > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:
> > > @"Drizzt.1796" said:
> > > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:
> > > the Shadow Thief can raise the Shadow Army (see [shadow Army](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow_Army)).
> > >
> > >
> > > So, how would a Thief summon things, they aren't very magic oriented, much less studying enough to summon things.
> >
> > Deadeye changed all that with the confirmation of Shadow Magic whenever they use their Deadeye Mark (creating items using magic) and cantrips (aka magic).
>
> ... True, but a deadeye still isn't that magic oriented. its only used for 2 things, the Mark, and the Cantrips. so still, not very magic oriented.
That's why a Shadow Thief is inevitable, who is a true Shadow Magic user. If Elementalist can take the Thief's Dual-wield mechanic, Mesmer can take the stealth mechanic, and Guardian can take the shadowstep mechanic, the Thief can easily take the magic user mechanic and become a Shadow Thief.
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> @"Drizzt.1796" said:
> > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:
> the Shadow Thief can raise the Shadow Army (see [shadow Army](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow_Army)).
>
>
> So, how would a Thief summon things, they aren't very magic oriented, much less studying enough to summon things.
Deadeye changed all that with the confirmation of Shadow Magic whenever they use their Deadeye Mark (creating items using magic) and cantrips (aka magic).
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How exactly are you going to "grab" someone 1200 range away?
Nevertheless, the next Elite Thief Spec should be a close range magic user using Shadow Arts called Shadow Thief-- not the art of stealth and shadowstep, but an art that manipulates and control shadow magic. If the Necro can raise undead army, the Shadow Thief can raise the Shadow Army (see [shadow Army](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow_Army)).
This time, the Thief is no longer stealing material things, the Deadeye have opened this possibility. When the Shadow Thief steals from a Warrior, they steal the shadow of the Warrior and summon a Shadow Warrior instead of creating stolen items -- so pressing F2 will summon the shadow. Thus if you take Improvisation from DA, you can summon 2 Shadow Warriors to fight by your side.
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> @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:
> i thought trickery was mainly picked for bountiful theft/slight of hand. ofc the extra 3 ini is a bonus but that was never the reason why I thought trickery was mandatory
Trickery is picked for different reasons actually. I personally only take it for the Trickster trait -- other traits like Lead Attacks are just bonus -- so it was mandatory for me in order to have easy access to cleanses. Ever since the changes to SA, Trickery is no longer mandatory for me. The +3 init is nice but only if you're running a spike/burst build.
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> @"Yasai.3549" said:
> Crazy idea but I think Shadow Savior should be a Minor.
>
> Then we replace Shadow Savior with Concealing Restoration to force people to pick it over Leeching Venoms because Leeching Venoms is basically the BiS pick for Master traits.
I hate that idea. Leave Concealing Restoration alone.
Why do you have to involve other traits that has nothing to do with what's being discussed?
You're going off-topic and that idea is horrible.
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Death Blossom should be replaced by Leaping Death Blossom (leaping and evading 3 times for the same Init cost) from Caithe's weapon skill set just for PvE. Or better yet, add new weapon skill sets for the same weapon combination -- it time to expand the boring weapon skill sets.
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It's all about capping mid first because it also protects your home -- if you can keep the fight in mid, you don't have to worry about home since they have to go through mid to get there. Depending on the map, I will try to cap the enemy home to keep/stall them there so that my team can cap home and mid.
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> @"Curennos.9307" said:
> The trait is outperformed in pretty much every way by the other traits. The radius is also way too small.
>
> Thoughts? Idk, just wanted to get something going about this. I love the whole stealth-support idea, but this thing is far too weak. They could literally double everything about it.
Pro:
It is good for self healing when used with Mug using Steal since it heals for a significant amount. It also adds healing to Infiltrator's Strike (Sword #2), Shadow Shot (D/P #3) and Shadow Strike (P/D #3). When using Sword, you can heal from Steal (mug + savior), Sword #2 (savior), plus life steal when using Sword stealth attack (shadow siphoning) from the front when spec with Cloaked in Shadows (blind = life steal). If CS is also taken, you can have a plethora of healing source so a DA/CS/SA will grant tons of self healing since you practically heal on everything you do. I tested this with a Harrier amulet and my Thief was unkillable.
Con:
It is meant for the niche duelist build who wants to control a 1v1 fight, but for a general use it's not worth it and as a support, it is indeed very lacking. I do agree that the Ally heal should be more, at least 10% of your current health (min. 1.5k Ally heal). Also, Harrier amulet is gone, so meh. It was fun while it lasted.
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> @"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:
> so what? you are glass? Does not matter because you are stealthed up and highly mobile. Being glass means NOTHING on a class that can engage and disengage at will and without any risk for itself.
>
> Try glass ele. THAT is real glass. And does mediocre damage in comparism.
>
> Got hit by a 10k vault today. Really balanced. Really, really balanced.
>
> Thief needs to be either nuked with the nerf hammer or stealth has to be removed from the game.
>
> Thieves in all their variants are not 'roaming' classes. They are ganking classes. That simple. If one thing has killed 'roaming' which I see a lot btw, it is ganking.
If roaming with a glass DE is without risk...more people would be playing the class ganking each other. That is not what's happening.
Also, trying to compare a glass Elementalist to a glass Thief won't help your case either. Elementalist can be as fragile as glass one moment and be as hard as steel in the next moment. Thief has access to 10 weapons skills while Elementalist has access to 20 weapon skills, 5 skills per element, 24 skills with weaver -- and you think that you can compare the two? Really? There is no risk running an Elementalist, they are the most versatile profession in the game.
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S/S is out of character for a Thief specially the kind of swords we have in GW2 where short and longsword are the same thing. I would like to see dual-short-swords, but dual-long-swords looks dumb. Even Greatsword is a bit of a stretch.
The next logical weapons for the Thief are fist weapon (street fighter), scepter + focus (arcane thief), and torch (arsonist).
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> @"DoRi Silvia.4159" said:
> I honestly did not expect much from the vision update but it is looking promising with new things to do and things to strive for... upgradeable hub !?
>
We already have a hub called Home Instance and it's bigger than the Eye of the North, but mostly nothing going on other than farming nodes. I personally would have preferred an upgradable Home Instance -- but I'm more interested on the story from other's perspective.
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You can buy a bundle of Kralkatite for karma in Istan and Bjora. This way you can play in areas with high population and go to places where you can purchase them.
If they should change anything, I think they should lift the daily purchase limit.
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The problem with PvE is, if you buff the Thief to have a better benchmark in raids, you effectively made them overpowered in other PvE encounters which makes the experience very boring. Raid encounters should be more than just DPS and beating the time. There should be strategies and Thief specific tasks involved that without a Thief, the encounter is still doable, but more difficult. This way, you have to bring a Thief since no one else can do that task and the consequence of not bringing a Thief is greater difficulty and high chance of failure.
A poor raid design is lumping the Thief with other DPS and not utilizing their full potential. Stealth and shadowstep is rarely needed other than to proc a trait. And if those aren't needed, why even bother taking a Thief when you can take a Guardian? Which is what we're seeing in a lot of raid compositions -- mass Guardians. This is proof that the raid designs are monotonous and as long as you locked in the holy trinity (tank, healer, dps - aka all Guardians), you're good.
So if the only deciding factor is the DPS benchmark, even if the Thief scores higher, it's just a DPS task that a Guardian/Warrior or Ranger can do. The raid has to be designed where a the expertise of the Thief is needed. Otherwise, why even bring a Thief?
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> @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said:
> I am actually pretty impressed with the balance changes in this previous patch.
>
> This was probably the first time in a long time I actually felt like I stood a chance against another profession. And their insane access to the standard kitten (Insane healing, absurd access to buffs, rediculous damage for little effort, heaps of cheap passives) felt more like brief hindrances, rather than me being thrown bodily into a spikey pit. And that my own damage was substantial enough to be able to fight threats confidently.
>
> My only gripe is that the initiative costs have gotten far more ridiculous now. Which only adds into the frustration when we've constantly been harking on ANET about the init costs being way too high, and that almost every build requires Trickery in order to compete. Thus permanently locking off a skill tree that could have gone into some more interesting builds.
You can't possible have all good changes without the bad changes -- that won't be balance.
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Here's the reasons why you would want Marauder/Scholar with Compounding sigil instead of what you got:
- You have a big opener:
-- +5% >90% health (scholar)
-- +3% damage from conditions (poison, weakness, vuln from Compounding sigil)
-- +6% damage (poison, weakness, vuln from Exposed weakness)
-- higher crit chance
-- higher vitality
-- only 100 power and 8% ferocity difference which are completely covered by the +% damage bonuses
Sigil of courage might look good, but I think you're better off with compounding.
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> @"kash.9213" said:
> > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:
> > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:
> > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:
> > > > > > > @"saerni.2584" said:
> > > > > > > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:
> > > > > > > > I ran with my Condi-P/P build WvW last night and it seems that the Vault nerf didn't really do that much since it's still hitting me for 6k-7k. I lasted longer since Vault can no longer be chained 3 times due to the cost increase, but it still hurts and I lost the duel.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > So my kill count last night while roaming in this build is: 2 DH, 1 SpellBreaker; and I died from a Staff DD and a LB SoulBeast.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > In SPVP in a 2v2 I got random hit with a 12k vault.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I’d add that CS is now potentially better than DA in a condi DE build (also adjusting to Swashbuckler amulet over Wizard for higher crit rate).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I believe that. I have 2.9k armor and still took 7k damage. Not to mention, he's evading all my counter measures. I brought her below 10% health but I just didn't manage to close the deal. I can't get M7 to trigger with all the evades. But I have to admit, it was fun -- pre-patch I would have died a lot sooner.
> > > > >
> > > > > Makes sense thief's "brawler" spec would out brawl u. I bet ud destroy the DD in a ranged fight though.
> > > >
> > > > I did my best but this DD predicted my moves as if I fought her before. She evaded my 1k Needles, Binding Shadow and even Bolas shot. I was tapped out and can't keep her away from me. In other words, she outplayed me big time.
> > >
> > > Ahh haha man someone admitting they got out played is a rarity on these forums. At least with ur sensible take on the situation u are one of the few that probobly learn and get better from these situations. Most tell them selves they lost cuz the engagement was unwinnable due to the oppositions build/class and move on with zero attempts to learn from it. Props to u for that, hopefully Riga game doesn't ever strip u of that lol. My guess is she's one of the few that regardless of staffs viability through out its history commonly used it and now that it's in a good spot is very proficiently on it. Before the previous nerfs to bounding staff build I bet this players wrecked a lot of people lol
> >
> > Yeah it was a legit win for the DD. If she made a mistake, like failing to evade my Binding Shadow, I would have won -- but she's good. She took the damage she can take and evaded by big attacks. I don't see a lot of Staff DD in WvW, but this one is like finding a unicorn.
>
> Our matchups never have many if any staff brawlers, but we get some vault snipers, they just do their thing fast and scramble though. They know generally they'll gas out to some cc and patience.
Exactly. Typically, any melee build will fall victim to my Condi P/P since I have tons of CCs and I have stealth to wait things out (i.e. blocks and reflect). I've kited DHs and Spellbreakers and they simply cannot out-heal and out-cleanse my damage.
> That sounds like someone who's tuned into their keybind layout though, you'll need to get their instinct zeroed in on one thing while you're plotting another I guess.
I wouldn't doubt it.
> Condi p/p might be something that just lets their build do their thing to.
If that is true, then I will be undefeated.
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The game gives you different ways to mitigate damage and you refused to use them just so you can complain about the sledgehammer you dropped on your toes.
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> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:
> > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:
> > > > > @"saerni.2584" said:
> > > > > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:
> > > > > > I ran with my Condi-P/P build WvW last night and it seems that the Vault nerf didn't really do that much since it's still hitting me for 6k-7k. I lasted longer since Vault can no longer be chained 3 times due to the cost increase, but it still hurts and I lost the duel.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So my kill count last night while roaming in this build is: 2 DH, 1 SpellBreaker; and I died from a Staff DD and a LB SoulBeast.
> > > > >
> > > > > In SPVP in a 2v2 I got random hit with a 12k vault.
> > > > >
> > > > > I’d add that CS is now potentially better than DA in a condi DE build (also adjusting to Swashbuckler amulet over Wizard for higher crit rate).
> > > >
> > > > I believe that. I have 2.9k armor and still took 7k damage. Not to mention, he's evading all my counter measures. I brought her below 10% health but I just didn't manage to close the deal. I can't get M7 to trigger with all the evades. But I have to admit, it was fun -- pre-patch I would have died a lot sooner.
> > >
> > > Makes sense thief's "brawler" spec would out brawl u. I bet ud destroy the DD in a ranged fight though.
> >
> > I did my best but this DD predicted my moves as if I fought her before. She evaded my 1k Needles, Binding Shadow and even Bolas shot. I was tapped out and can't keep her away from me. In other words, she outplayed me big time.
>
> Ahh haha man someone admitting they got out played is a rarity on these forums. At least with ur sensible take on the situation u are one of the few that probobly learn and get better from these situations. Most tell them selves they lost cuz the engagement was unwinnable due to the oppositions build/class and move on with zero attempts to learn from it. Props to u for that, hopefully Riga game doesn't ever strip u of that lol. My guess is she's one of the few that regardless of staffs viability through out its history commonly used it and now that it's in a good spot is very proficiently on it. Before the previous nerfs to bounding staff build I bet this players wrecked a lot of people lol
Yeah it was a legit win for the DD. If she made a mistake, like failing to evade my Binding Shadow, I would have won -- but she's good. She took the damage she can take and evaded by big attacks. I don't see a lot of Staff DD in WvW, but this one is like finding a unicorn.
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> @"kash.9213" said:
> > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:
> > > @"saerni.2584" said:
> > > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:
> > > > I ran with my Condi-P/P build WvW last night and it seems that the Vault nerf didn't really do that much since it's still hitting me for 6k-7k. I lasted longer since Vault can no longer be chained 3 times due to the cost increase, but it still hurts and I lost the duel.
> > > >
> > > > So my kill count last night while roaming in this build is: 2 DH, 1 SpellBreaker; and I died from a Staff DD and a LB SoulBeast.
> > >
> > > In SPVP in a 2v2 I got random hit with a 12k vault.
> > >
> > > I’d add that CS is now potentially better than DA in a condi DE build (also adjusting to Swashbuckler amulet over Wizard for higher crit rate).
> >
> > I believe that. I have 2.9k armor and still took 7k damage. Not to mention, he's evading all my counter measures. I brought her below 10% health but I just didn't manage to close the deal. I can't get M7 to trigger with all the evades. But I have to admit, it was fun -- pre-patch I would have died a lot sooner.
>
> I'm just not feeling M7 right now for similar reasons including line of site, I've bit it a few times this week trying to top off M7, maybe that'd be easier in spvp. Even if I didn't take Trickery I'd probably switch to it and take BQoBD of M7 and go back to my old pace and setups. I can't think of M7 as a replacement to Trickery only being able to work off our Marked target. Given, I've been dumb messing around with stuff on the move but I think whatever I was doing before the update still kind of works out the best.
M7 didn't work on DD due to their really good evade mechanic. But fighting other classes like DHs, FBs, and SpellBreakers...I can stack Malice fast enough even if they pop reflect and blocks -- I can just wait those out. Compare to DD, there's no waiting things out -- the longer you wait the more evades they get. Even if I picked BQoBK and running a power build, it will not give me an edge since this particular DD was able to predict my moves. It's not so much about builds or gears, it's about her good timing on evading my attacks.
EDIT: BTW, if I'm running a Power build with Trickery and BQoBK, I doubt I'd be able to bring her down to 10% health. She'll just evade everything.
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> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:
> > > @"saerni.2584" said:
> > > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:
> > > > I ran with my Condi-P/P build WvW last night and it seems that the Vault nerf didn't really do that much since it's still hitting me for 6k-7k. I lasted longer since Vault can no longer be chained 3 times due to the cost increase, but it still hurts and I lost the duel.
> > > >
> > > > So my kill count last night while roaming in this build is: 2 DH, 1 SpellBreaker; and I died from a Staff DD and a LB SoulBeast.
> > >
> > > In SPVP in a 2v2 I got random hit with a 12k vault.
> > >
> > > I’d add that CS is now potentially better than DA in a condi DE build (also adjusting to Swashbuckler amulet over Wizard for higher crit rate).
> >
> > I believe that. I have 2.9k armor and still took 7k damage. Not to mention, he's evading all my counter measures. I brought her below 10% health but I just didn't manage to close the deal. I can't get M7 to trigger with all the evades. But I have to admit, it was fun -- pre-patch I would have died a lot sooner.
>
> Makes sense thief's "brawler" spec would out brawl u. I bet ud destroy the DD in a ranged fight though.
I did my best but this DD predicted my moves as if I fought her before. She evaded my 1k Needles, Binding Shadow and even Bolas shot. I was tapped out and can't keep her away from me. In other words, she outplayed me big time.
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> @"saerni.2584" said:
> > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:
> > I ran with my Condi-P/P build WvW last night and it seems that the Vault nerf didn't really do that much since it's still hitting me for 6k-7k. I lasted longer since Vault can no longer be chained 3 times due to the cost increase, but it still hurts and I lost the duel.
> >
> > So my kill count last night while roaming in this build is: 2 DH, 1 SpellBreaker; and I died from a Staff DD and a LB SoulBeast.
>
> In SPVP in a 2v2 I got random hit with a 12k vault.
>
> I’d add that CS is now potentially better than DA in a condi DE build (also adjusting to Swashbuckler amulet over Wizard for higher crit rate).
I believe that. I have 2.9k armor and still took 7k damage. Not to mention, he's evading all my counter measures. I brought her below 10% health but I just didn't manage to close the deal. I can't get M7 to trigger with all the evades. But I have to admit, it was fun -- pre-patch I would have died a lot sooner.
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I ran with my Condi-P/P build WvW last night and it seems that the Vault nerf didn't really do that much since it's still hitting me for 6k-7k. I lasted longer since Vault can no longer be chained 3 times due to the cost increase, but it still hurts and I lost the duel.
So my kill count last night while roaming in this build is: 2 DH, 1 SpellBreaker; and I died from a Staff DD and a LB SoulBeast.
SA: Shadow Savior
in Thief
Posted
> @"saerni.2584" said:
> > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:
> > > @"saerni.2584" said:
> > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > > @"saerni.2584" said:
> > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > > > > @"saerni.2584" said:
> > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > > > > > Add can't be hit with crits while revealed, add 1 sec to revealed when FS is taken. Make SS heal for 850 and addition heal % increase for each tele performed within a allotted time frame with a cap of 4000 and add 3 seconds of regen or prot after each tele.
> > > > > > > > Those would be good no?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Can’t be hit with crit would be a lot stronger than just 33% damage reduction.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Adding 1 second to self reveal would be bad. This trait mitigates a detrimental debuff. I don’t want to be revealed for too long so I can regain stealth after all.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yeah the extra sec was to balance out the no crits while revealed and to make flickering shadows actually feel impactful lol. Was just ideas lol
> > > > >
> > > > > It’s a fair idea, but I worry about adding trade offs that may make the trait unusable in practice.
> > > >
> > > > I was thinking I'd be also a slight buff as traits like revealed training would be active for the extended revealed duration as well
> > >
> > > Revealed training is pretty weak. They split the power gain between reveal and normal. So you really only gain an extra 80 power from being revealed.
> > >
> >
> > I think you misunderstood it. It's +80 normal and +200 when revealed (80+120), so you gain +120 when revealed. Their goal is to give power when not revealed but not making it over the +200 bonus, that's why they split it that way. It's very similar to Dagger Training, +80 with one dagger and +160 with both daggers (80+80).
>
> Huh, I stand corrected. For some reason I thought it was 80/80. 120 is a bit better but I do still think adding more duration to revealed is not a good idea for any trait that provides a bonus to revealed.
Yeah extending the Revealed time is a bad idea, but they can make the buff independent of Revealed and let it linger for 1-2 more seconds similar to how Hidden Killer lingers after stealth.