Marko Welder.3547

> @"draxynnic.3719" said: > Druid brings spirits. Which is why the healers in raid builds are generally not healbrands. > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > @"draxynnic.3719" said: > > Druid brings spirits. Which is why the healers in raid builds are generally not healbrands. > > Exactly. It's not only that but I'd say that's the spirits are unique enough to be the main reason. (Obviously, being able to keep up protection, regen, vigor, fury and swiftness on 10 players/allies and having great access to CCs all while healing help as well. _Spotter_ might just be the cherry on top of the cake allowing some builds variation.) After months of through testing, druid spirits all together, are barely 4.2% dps increase. And he has to choose them instead of other utility skills. Also Spotter is NO bonus at all, because builds that depend on crit rate have already capped crit and they don't tweak their builds counting that they will have druid all the time giving those 4.7% crit chance which is neligible. Even those who are not crit capped are above 90% crit rate, so its really not an increase at all. So, I will try to explain and therefore expand your meta-mentality in hopes you can realize new things: * Druid brings 4.2% dps increase with all spirits , by sacrificing all other utility spells. Druis brings Protection, Regen, Vigor, Fury, Swiftness, Might(25) Druid brings spotter which is neligible but I will put it here just for you. A barely 2% dps increase. But here i put it. So all in all, druid brings 6-7% dps increase. And some basic boons, wooowmon, Spiritzzz I do 99999999% dmg coz we got spiritzzzz , sure bro. Spiritzzzzs * FIREPADRE: Brings Protection, Regen, Vigor, Fury, Swiftness, Might(25), Stability, Retaliation, Aegis, Quickness, Resistance, Symbols, Toughness(aura), Group stunbreaks too! Brings UNIQUE buffs like 33% healing increase, and 300 Toughness. * Compared to Druid and his lame kitten Spirits this are the things that Firebrand brings that Druid does NOT: * AEGIS, RESISTANCE, STABILITY(on demand often), RETALIATION, QUICKNESS, BETTER HEALING, UNIQUE 300 Tougness, UNIQUE 33% healing increase, Much better Condi-Cleanse, Symbols, Toughness(aura), Group Stunbreaks. - * Quickness alone increases DPS by 39%. Vs Druid 6-7%. (all spirits combined) (But Spirriitzzzz BRUH, Meta mon, we meta players, we gut.) Just keep your Druid and your SPiritizzzzzz and keep believing in his magical druidic powers and huuuuge dps increase. After clearing all raids countless times, the ONLY healers I even consider using is FB x2 or FB+Renegade. End of story. Not only that Numbers don't lie. But the overall utility and things which are bonus on top of it are just that cherry on the cake. PS: Ah yeah, the Renegade boy, he also outclasses your Druid and his allmighty Spiritzzzz (9000% dps bonus). In every aspect. Healing and dps bonus to group. Also tested with DPS meters through countless dungeons and all. Not to mention his Soulcleave just stacks with all other bonus effects and is sick dps increase to group. Alac as well. So if you come and tell me "But I will take Chrono for quickness etc.." Sure man I do so sometimes myself too. But than I don't bring 6% dps called DRUID , I bring Renegade-Padre-De-La-Stomp-On-Druid and enjoy 30-80% dps increase compared to druid, depending on weapons my fellow raid members use. If they utilize skills that hit several times, the bonus healing and damage from Soulcleave can sometimes be bigger than double. Edit: Spiritzzz mon, druid must best he spiritz bring! Oh how I love when people are hard stuck on something narrowminded and strongly believe despite countless Tools to check numbers in these days and compare gains and losses.

> @"LucianTheAngelic.7054" said: > > @"Marko Welder.3547" said: > > What are you babbling about lol?? > > Ventari is THE steongest healing option in the game. Healing per second AND incredible burst healing. > > Revenant has THE highest healing per cast in the game. And you want it buffed even more??? > > Healing orbs themselves are super strong as you can generate tons of them to lay down there and be picked up when needed in between your heal casting for example to provide nice stream of healing instead of bursty one. They scale VERY good because they are aoe heals. > > > > Tablet being movable is amazing and I would NEVER want to see it changed. You are just bad at supporting. And people are bad at being supported. > > -Moving Tablet allows me to send it to cleanse people far away from me in raids and PvP or PvE, > > -It allows me to Heal people far away wothout having to move at all from my spot. So i can heal people without stopping to DPS at all, which means constant Healing Orbs generation. > > -it makes your most broken skill the projectile dome Movable on its own. NO ONE HAS THAT. No class has it! I can put my dome in middle of passage willed with ground AOE conditions and protect my group. Things normaly people cant do. > > Not to mention sending it to protect downed ally who is getting rezzed by teammate. > > And IT HAS NO CD!! > > Not only that but it counts as Healing Skill, procing all the "When Using Healing Skill" > > Runes and effects like maniac. > > Same goes for our Elite spell. > > > > - So you coming here to cry about bad healing is ridiculous. I guess time for necros to cry because their shroud depletes on its own 5% per sec. That must be buffed. OMG Lol... > > - And RENEGADE has most broken healing spell in the game. Its 6, heals people around you for 30k.. THIRTY kitten THOUSANDS PER ONE CAST PER ONE PERSON. And on top of that it reduces condi damage taken while it lasts. And its almost free to use and stacks with Soulcleave which is another most broken thing. > > - ive had warriors, rangers, thieves heal 7-10k hp per second on their own only with SoulCleave. > > > > - Revenant is THE most broken healer in all game modes right now, covering Everything a Healer could wish for, Renegade makes that even more OP. It needs a Nerf not buff. > > > > -You need to learn to heal. No class can press ONE buttton and deliver 11k AOE heal to whole group. And have s passive ticking Regen around tablet which stacks with SoothingMist and Regeneration. > > > > -Press heal the moment you see boss is about to hit a player and Than send your tablet to them. And it will heal the moment it arrives making it instant. > > You want to dumb down the class so that people cant move Tablet?? And what than? Chase people around yourself to heal them? wow mate, I am impressed. Thats biggest nerf Revenant can get. You have mobile AOE heal you can deliver ANYWHERE but you want to nerf it. > > > > LEARN YOUR CLASS, Scourge Necros have learned to pre cast barriers at right time, to maximize their usage and they can only prevent so much, you still need to be healed. > > Revenant getting barrier instead of heals would be another dumb thing as it would go to Waste. People have from 12 to 15k hp. Most of them. And you would be capped at 6 to 8k barriers because barriers cannot exceed 50%HP. Now why would I change Instant 11k heal for barrier? Explain yourself please. > > You mannage Renegade Heal and Soulcleave and Ventari with Invocation for insane amount of healing and alacrity, 25might etc... And all with insane range that doesnt require you to even be there. > > > > * I dont even want to mention Staff skills which are BONUS on top of all of it. Providing INSANE bar break > > * very good Hp/s heal because of orbs > > * and if you dont utilize first Staff 4 and than ventari for conditions you are doing it wrong. > > If you dont know to heal with thr strongest healing Output class in the game, because it requires some game awareness and skill, move to Tempest. > > Yeah no. While it is the strongest burst healing in the game and Renegade’s Soulcleave is insanely good, Support Rev (specifically ventari) isn’t the top pick in PvE because it lacks access to damage and CC mitigation tools (I.e. aegis and stability). Jalis is great for stability, but if you’re running Ventari/Kalla then you have to drop one of them to bring him. This is heal/support Rev’s biggest issue; it just doesn’t compete with Healbrand for the top spot since it can’t slot the level of mitigation that Healbrand can. Not taking damage is always superior to taking damage and then healing from it (and it’s not like HB is bad at actually healing, either). HealRev is arguably worse than Tempest, too, since Tempest has Rebound + 25 might/fury + great condi cleanse + consistent healing all for 10man. > > No one is crying about bad healing from Ventari. Obviously it’s a strong healer in terms of raw heals and the projectile block is great, but it does have some issues that hold it back from being top tier. The lack of damage mitigation outside of projectile destruction, its somewhat weak condi cleanse, and its somewhat clunky mechanics holds Ventari back considerably, especially in WvW and PvP. Ventari is fine in PvE but it’s still only the 3rd or 4th best option for a healer/support because of the above issues as well. > > I’m not sure how you can consider it “the most broken healer” in all game modes when it’s not being played by most people and none of the top tier players in Pve/pvp/wvw are running it.... > > > it makes your most broken skill the projectile dome Movable on its own. NO ONE HAS THAT. No class has it! I can put my dome in middle of passage willed with ground AOE conditions and protect my group > > Just to clarify, the projectile dome doesn’t protect from ground targeted AoEs. If you’re putting your dome in a “passage filled with ground AOE conditions” you’re not blocking any of those ground targeted AoEs. They’re still hitting your group. The dome only blocks actual projectiles. I know how it works. Thing is you can place it to protect yourself on some niche places where others cant because they would have to stand in those AOEs. Tempest doesnt have stability for group either regularly and has worse healing than Rev. NO one brings what Firebrand does Druid brings nothing Firebrand doesnt already, but it also lacks stability, aegis, quickness, Tempest same Engineer same Compared to Firebrand all healers are inferior. Revenant isnt supposed to be firebrand. He is supposed to bring Unique healing mechanics and buffs that stack with other healers. But on top of that it also has highest healing output in the entire game.

What are you babbling about lol?? Ventari is THE steongest healing option in the game. Healing per second AND incredible burst healing. Revenant has THE highest healing per cast in the game. And you want it buffed even more??? Healing orbs themselves are super strong as you can generate tons of them to lay down there and be picked up when needed in between your heal casting for example to provide nice stream of healing instead of bursty one. They scale VERY good because they are aoe heals. Tablet being movable is amazing and I would NEVER want to see it changed. You are just bad at supporting. And people are bad at being supported. -Moving Tablet allows me to send it to cleanse people far away from me in raids and PvP or PvE, -It allows me to Heal people far away wothout having to move at all from my spot. So i can heal people without stopping to DPS at all, which means constant Healing Orbs generation. -it makes your most broken skill the projectile dome Movable on its own. NO ONE HAS THAT. No class has it! I can put my dome in middle of passage willed with ground AOE conditions and protect my group. Things normaly people cant do. Not to mention sending it to protect downed ally who is getting rezzed by teammate. And IT HAS NO CD!! Not only that but it counts as Healing Skill, procing all the "When Using Healing Skill" Runes and effects like maniac. Same goes for our Elite spell. - So you coming here to cry about bad healing is ridiculous. I guess time for necros to cry because their shroud depletes on its own 5% per sec. That must be buffed. OMG Lol... - And RENEGADE has most broken healing spell in the game. Its 6, heals people around you for 30k.. THIRTY DAMN THOUSANDS PER ONE CAST PER ONE PERSON. And on top of that it reduces condi damage taken while it lasts. And its almost free to use and stacks with Soulcleave which is another most broken thing. - ive had warriors, rangers, thieves heal 7-10k hp per second on their own only with SoulCleave. - Revenant is THE most broken healer in all game modes right now, covering Everything a Healer could wish for, Renegade makes that even more OP. It needs a Nerf not buff. -You need to learn to heal. No class can press ONE buttton and deliver 11k AOE heal to whole group. And have s passive ticking Regen around tablet which stacks with SoothingMist and Regeneration. -Press heal the moment you see boss is about to hit a player and Than send your tablet to them. And it will heal the moment it arrives making it instant. You want to dumb down the class so that people cant move Tablet?? And what than? Chase people around yourself to heal them? wow mate, I am impressed. Thats biggest nerf Revenant can get. You have mobile AOE heal you can deliver ANYWHERE but you want to nerf it. LEARN YOUR CLASS, Scourge Necros have learned to pre cast barriers at right time, to maximize their usage and they can only prevent so much, you still need to be healed. Revenant getting barrier instead of heals would be another dumb thing as it would go to Waste. People have from 12 to 15k hp. Most of them. And you would be capped at 6 to 8k barriers because barriers cannot exceed 50%HP. Now why would I change Instant 11k heal for barrier? Explain yourself please. You mannage Renegade Heal and Soulcleave and Ventari with Invocation for insane amount of healing and alacrity, 25might etc... And all with insane range that doesnt require you to even be there. * I dont even want to mention Staff skills which are BONUS on top of all of it. Providing INSANE bar break * very good Hp/s heal because of orbs * and if you dont utilize first Staff 4 and than ventari for conditions you are doing it wrong. If you dont know to heal with thr strongest healing Output class in the game, because it requires some game awareness and skill, move to Tempest.

But the biggest standpoint in your post is "Rise" from Reaper. And those minions are cool because of protection etc. But what about Core necro and Scourge necro. They also need something. I would like talent in Scourge that says: "Your manifest Sand Shade is now Rise a Sand Golem, GOlem has improved stats (30k life , 2700toughnes, 1500 power) shroud skills affect area around your golem. You cannot summon any other minions while Golem is alive.

> @"Anchoku.8142" said: > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > @"Marko Welder.3547" said: > > Something in your discussion caught my eye and I wanted to present a couple of points. > > 1. A player can use minions without taking Death Magic, much less chosing all three traits. Making minion traits more detailed and complicated may lessen their utility in partial minion builds. > 2. It is perfectly fine to populate your skill bar with a full set of pets, yet use only one or two minion traits. Sometimes you may want your minions to die (in a putrid explosion where FotM can be avoided) and other times you may want to heal and tank for them to prevent death (making Death Nova the wrong trait to take and FotM the right choice.) > Problem is that we are far away from this As Minions are too weak and meaningless to be worth protecting and taking damage for... If they did some noticeable damage or gave some aura or smth I could see it worth. Right now? No, really no.

Exactly because its easier to have 1-2 builds that are 10x stronger than the rest, for each class, and than you just tune those builds to be in line, so neither class can complain vs other a lot without the argument "but you can play XXX build of yours and be good. Your class is fine" the rest of the builds are plain disappointment to the top one or two, thus its a cut of balance work for Arena.net. It is truly sad.

There should be a tree dedicated to them. Would be coul if Death Magic had talent to summon one Sand golem instead of Flesh Golem, which is stronger than all other summons, but you cannot have other summons active while he is alive. And that your Scourge shroud abilities affect area around it. And every time it attacks it would give you 2% life force and slow enemy it attacked like Flesh golem does.

> @"Rukia.4802" said: > Because many utilities would be better than elites and that would change builds massively, I'm not saying its a bad thing but ANet would never do it. And now we got to the core of the problem. Since its global everyone would benefit from it so I doubt that one spec could benefit from it more than the rest. All in all, its a very needed change because right now, some specs have WAY STRONGER elite spells than other ones which is really dull and umbalanced. Also this one change would bring so many innovative builds to this stale meta and remove the "best in slot" kings that rule for years now in many specs. Where one elite spell is used in every build as its just better than the others. Its as if you are afraid of people having options to play multiple builds and options and not just spam one or two metas that everyone knows how to play with and against?

> @"Dadnir.5038" said: > **Minion return:** > I don't think it's needed, if anything the lack of such thing feed the fantasy of a dire undead creature that the necromancer unleash onto it's foe. > > **Minion attack speed:** > It sure is bad but, objectively, if it was faster it would generate issue elsewhere, notably onto the necromancer's sustain. > > **Minion stats:** > I have to say no there. Minion are as passive a mechanism as can be, giving them more "staying power" isn't a thing that ANet should do. Heck! They already give to much staying power through death magic that I'd be glad if we could to get rid off. Minion should just be expandables, No super minions please! > > **Minion interaction with scourge and staff user:** > Objectively there is already more than enough interactions between scourge, staff and minions. > > **Manifest sand shade:** > Unless you're not aware of it, F2, F3 and F4 proc _manifest sand shade_ and thus all "shrd#1" traits. Having it slightly bothersome to put on the ground is a very little cost for it's potential. > > **My own opinion on minions:** > The necromancer's minions have way to much staying power, their active skills tend to be irrelevant (except rare case like _Necrotic traversal_) and aren't supported by any of the 4 traits that are more or less dedicated to minions (which is funny granted that no longer have any trait for _Wells_ and _Spectrals_ skills, yet we are still stuck with 4 trait that barely work unless you got minions while not having an inbuilt way to summon minions. Certainly the biggest nonsense of the necromancer's design). > > Like I said, the _minions_ should be "consumable/expendable", a design that some of their active skills try to create. Yet the weakness of those active skills and the overwhelming amount of work put into making _minions_ passively usable make this inefficient. > > For me, the _minions_ need to all be sacrificed on active skill use and traits that involve _minions_ should proc their effects on "active skill use" not passively (The worst is that they did that for the ranger's spirit while it was a bad choice to do so for this profession while they kept the necromancer's minion in the current way when they need this treatment). If ANet really want to keep all those passive minions traits they need to give us a way to generate minions that doesn't require us to take a major trait nor take a specific kind of utility skill. All the attack speed interactions can be solved by tweaking the numbers a bit. As there is Only One talent that benefits it and its MINISCULE. That is Vampiric Pressence. So that's a no issue. There are several points to look at necromancer class. Yours is that you should summon weak minions that you consume for effects and resumon oftenly. But the very summoning should br passive. Which comes down to the passive minion play, you have a chance or your X and Y spells summon untargetable shade that attacks your enemy 5 times. Using Z spell on enemy detonates the minions attacking the target for G bonus effect. Which is worse way than now. And there is the other way where neco summons strong flesh golems which are durable and strong but slow. In all games Neco is introduced and accepted as a class that can choose a path to summon strong durable Flesh Golems which aids them in fight, are strong but slow can tank and use skills to devastate enemy. Killing a necro was always a battle of dodging pets while focusing Necro. And the better player wins. Necro who kites player around minions, or enemy who kites minions to kill Necro. What you pointed is an optional way to play the class which should be somewhere in there as exactly that "an option". Majority of playerbase who were looking for summoner class choose Necro just to get disappointed. Your way of seeing necro is your personal opinion, which should be an option respectively, but not the only way in any case. And the things which you mentioned as arguments to my post is something that a summoner player wouldn't say. So I have to consider some of your points as attempt to troll and just bash on a class you hate. Neco Minions have 71% increased HP in PVE for a reason. But that is a very bad and lazy way from ArenaNet to make them relevant. Much better way was to let their Toughness scale from players Toughness. Same for HP and Pwr. It wasn't a problem to give them 100% condi dmg/duration scaling from player, so why should this? Why limit them to only one build? Staying power should be an option for people who build Support builds and healing power and do zero damage on their own.

But it is balanced as that build sacrifices a stonger spell for other option. Generally you can always build your character around your normal and elite skills. Usually stacking one mechanic too much gets a negative impact on your build. For example 1+ 1 is 100% increase. 2+1 is 50% increase, 3+1 is 33%. Etc....

> @"KrHome.1920" said: > You can reduce it to give the player any control over the minions (even if it is just a "come back to me" button). This solves every sustain issue, because you can position your minions better. It might even lead to nerfs for minions as more control is a strong buff. Not more control, its ANY control at all. Minions in PvP are near useless as pets because they melt in few hits, and their dps is less than 5% in a fight. What we need are minions with less dps than ranger one of course, but with similar durability. I would Love a specialization for Necro where is own damage is reduced by 50/60% but minions one increased instead. Where you have pets that do damagr and you support, buff and heal them instead. But that's impossible i guess.