Arken.3725

@"Eugchriss.2046" Except there is plenty of risk playing dh. Burn dh is a pub stomper that never will work at the highest level. Other forms of dh are far worse.

Hunters determination should be on a 5 sec icd.

If any of y'all think skill equates to unbiased opinion you're dead wrong. Just because your decent at something doesn't mean you have the games best interests at heart.

Plenty of individuals who don't care or know how to critique for fairer play that play well.

I'm not disagreeing with you, otto, I'm just pointing out that I am hoping this sets the stage for a potential mechanic overhaul to something more engaging. I know the issues you speak of and I agree, completely.

I actually agree with most of this list except I feel engie is still dominating fairly well. I would also bump condi ranger up a bit. Other than that, excellent job bro.

Old arken/harrier brand wasn't braindead either. Most fun I've ever had way back when.

That's the issue Buran, symbol-play was unfun and unhealthy for the game(pvp at least). You literally just spammed aoe's that were the same size at the points you were fighting on. Granted it wasn't the strongest(looks at holo), it was unhealthy and boring to use. This predicament stems from the problem that EVERY weapon has a symbol on it. With that, you're usually going to specialize into such a mechanic.

With the above-mentioned continuously getting nerfed(first the healing and then the size), the mechanic as a whole has been decimated. I feel like we should consider this a sign of a potential mechanic overhaul. Whether they completely redesign the mechanic and keep it the same across all weapons OR; each weapon now has their own unique skill(unclassified). I feel like the latter is less likely to happen as that would require them to redo EVERY trait that has to do with symbols.

Y'all are going to hate me but I'm for this nerf. Symbol-based play is very boring and incredibly cancerous to fight against. With that being said, I don't approve of a straight-up nerf without a proper replacement.

As it stands, Honor is now pretty useless. This change reminds me of the old Staff auto change. Instead of implementing a proper change, they straight-up nerfed it without a proper replacement for months.

As a Guard main, EXCELLENT nerf to big symbols. The mechanic is cancerous and unfun to fight against. Granted honor as it stands is pretty useless now, I'm glad they're doing something about symbols.

I'll put my 2-cents in if It's even worth that much. Before we begin, I want to exclaim that the only things people really complain about guardian are the follows:

Passive burning, retal and symbols. With this being said, what I'm about to say in regards to changes WILL make the game far less oppressive for those fighting against this nonsense while ALSO making Guardian more fun and viable still.

In regards to core virtue's, I'd argue that baseline, It's one of the most underwhelming class-mechanics in the game. They're literally weak signets. A tiny bit of burning, small heal and 2 clears with 1 stack of aegis on proc is an absolute joke. There's a reason why a lot of people who run burn builds never pop their f1 virtue.

My suggestions are as follow. Again, these aren't set in stone for what I'd like to see but rather a starting-point

**Baseline**: Inspired virtue is now baseline. MAYBE retain the passive's after activating them but you'd have to replace loremaster.

**Virtue of Justice**: Remove the passive burning proc and replace it with cripple. This would do two things: First and foremost, it would remove the oppressive nature that is passive condi-application. Secondly, It would give Guardian much needed assistance as a way of sticking to their target. Obviously you'd have to redo some traits/skills to promote a more active play style for condi-application but it would be far healthier. Reduce cd to 15.

**Virtue of Resolve**: Up the base-line condi-removal count to 3. reduce cd to 20.

**Virtue of Courage**: Grant a small amount of barrier in addition to aegis. Reduce Aegis refresh to 30, reduce cd to 30.

These are definitely not final nor am I even thinking they'll be considered by the devs. It's just my list of what could help guardian virtue's but also not be oppressive to enemies.

To me, the only real shout worth slotting is syg. The others either provide nothing of value, have too long of a cd or both.

Strong words in this thread. Here's a bit of info coming from spvp(where I assume this discussion is targeted at). Sagebrand(burning) is viable but it is in no way on the same tier as say Tempest, Holo, Daredevil, ect. It can carry for sure if the team is dumb enough to not work around your symbol-spam.

Maybe it's just me but out of 15 matches, I've only seen tempest's, necros or holos. I've only seen one rev and one fb.

You might be right but i'd still like some change-ups.

I never said it was fast enough, I said it was faster than Guardians to which you said it wasn't. I proved my statement with facts. You're welcome.

This is why I can't discuss with people like YuiRS, he/she does no research. Took me 5 seconds to look up the speed numbers for both weapons. Fastest skill on Guardian is 3/4, Warrior is 1/2. Not counting the auto's are all 1/2 whereas Guardian's last is 1 1/4.

Edit: I recommend not conversing with those who do not bring actual numbers to their arguments and in fact, blocking them is probably far healthier. Thank you.

How does Warrior Hammer need more help? Guardian's is so slow that you can't hit anyone with half a brain. Warriors skills are at least at a decent speed to land, regardless of damage.

These changes do absolutely nothing. I will still never run Great Sword, Feel my Wrath, Hold the line nor Retreat. These "buffs" do nothing when the actual functionality of these needed changes, not minor adjustments. The only good change I saw was Litany, the rest were a joke.

Where are the trait overhauls like what Necro got? I'd bet 100g that Guardian has, overall, the most and WORST traits to choose from.

How about this. If infuse light is so bad, let's trade that for litany of wrath or shelter and see how many revs really start complaining.

I said holo is the best power spec class in my description. Also to the one above that stated if I said it was to point out that rev was the only one who could do damage. I never said that, reread what I said it was:

To the same degree, speed while maintaining the crazy sustain through evades, blocks, mobility and again glint heal. Please don't cherry pick what I said.

> @"Shiyo.3578" said:

> Infuse light wouldn't be the best heal in the game if it made your entire character enveloped in a gigantic blue glowing bubble imo.

What? How does that make ANY sense? Also, the idea of not attacking as counter-play against it is also bull. Persistent AoE is a thing, team-fight AoE is a thing. It's VERY hard to counter-play against it.

> @"ArthurDent.9538" said:

> > @"Arken.3725" said:

> > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > @"Arken.3725" said:

> > > > I mean, he ain't wrong. Name another class that can destroy your health in an instant like that? I don't even think two thieves could do it as quickly and to the same degree. Except maybe a stealthed-up holomancer with nades. That's not to say it's anymore fair.

> > >

> > > 2 thieves couldnt, but thief is also just the lowest damage class by a pretty wide margin. Otherwise? 2 Guardians, 2 Engineers (doesnt even have to be Holo), 2 Rangers, 2 Warriors, 2 Eles, 2 Mesmers and 2 Reapers absolutely could. So uh, yeah, basically everyone other than thief can.

> >

> > I bet you 100 gold right now that neither of those combinations could do it to the same degree and speed. Any day of the week I'm comfortable with that bet.

> >

> > Edit: And that's without me mentioning that Revenant has far more sustain in comparison to any of those combinations as well.

>

> I'll take you on that bet, might take me a while to get a vid uploaded though.

It's going to be hilarious watching you try. The amount of setup needed by the burst by what those two rev's produced is nothing like other classes. He literally dropped in less than 3 seconds. The setup necessary for the other classes mentioned is far more difficult. I know you're a smart guy but you also play Rev. You gotta know your profession of choice is head-over-heels above the rest in whatever respected category they want.

Power Herald: Outside of Holosmith, it's the strongest power spec in the game that has mobility only second to thief with far more sustainability.

Condi Herald: I can't think of any other spec that has the sheer condition output combined with near 100% up-time on resistance with other boon-spam. Said boon-spam is also applied to power herald without the resistance.

Renegade: This spec is essentially an upgraded version of symbol-brand or any symbol guardian. The on-point pressure is 2nd to none.

All of this and I haven't even mentioned the fact that two of the three mentioned specs have access to arguably the best heal in the game(infuse light).

Enjoy the facts.

> @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > @"Arken.3725" said:

> > I mean, he ain't wrong. Name another class that can destroy your health in an instant like that? I don't even think two thieves could do it as quickly and to the same degree. Except maybe a stealthed-up holomancer with nades. That's not to say it's anymore fair.

>

> 2 thieves couldnt, but thief is also just the lowest damage class by a pretty wide margin. Otherwise? 2 Guardians, 2 Engineers (doesnt even have to be Holo), 2 Rangers, 2 Warriors, 2 Eles, 2 Mesmers and 2 Reapers absolutely could. So uh, yeah, basically everyone other than thief can.

I bet you 100 gold right now that neither of those combinations could do it to the same degree and speed. Any day of the week I'm comfortable with that bet.

Edit: And that's without me mentioning that Revenant has far more sustain in comparison to any of those combinations as well.

I mean, he ain't wrong. Name another class that can destroy your health in an instant like that? I don't even think two thieves could do it as quickly and to the same degree. Except maybe a stealthed-up holomancer with nades. That's not to say it's anymore fair.

Best ever my friends.....ever.