StickerHappy.8052

> @"Kodama.6453" said:

> You are loading way too much condition removal into ranger.

> With these changes, druids would become absolutely immune against every condition build.

>

> I mean, look at this. You are basically giving druid an alternative version of engineer's anti corrosion plating, but instead of protection you just have to use regeneration which is **way** easier to access, not to mention that anti corrosion plating is a grandmaster trait while yours is an adept and also gives additional benefits by granting regeneration by itself as well as healing allies.

>

> This is ridiculous.

> Healing spring with this trait alone would already cure **12 conditions from an entire team**.

> And you want to buff healing spring even further by making it heal allies more. The more I look at this stuff the funnier it gets.

12 conditions? You mean to say you AND Your team need to sit there the entire time and eat all AoEs right? Maybe you are talking about pve?

Uhmm.. regen easy to access? You need to Apply **13 regens in 20 Seconds** In order to beat druidic clarity that Just instantly wipes 13 condis AT ONCE in 20 seconds?

The problem is the lack of condition removal. It's either you use WS trait for core or druid. Give me a build without that would solve condi removal in a condi meta while playing plat or higher.. you are basically pigeonholed into those traits

Most of you might know or me or not but Man, was excited to test out the changes but apparently nothing really changed? I head there is a new balance team and hopefully they read this thread. I am mainly a pvp player so these changes might be PvP focused. Sorry about that! Anyway..

What is the ranger's main Problem? (This might be true for all classes)

##OUR GOOD TRAITS MAKE IT SEEM THAT THEY ARE MANDATORY IN EVERY BUILD. SAME WITH PETS. THATS WHY = 0 BUILD DIVERSITY**

What do I mean?

Why is it always that Smokescale/Jac/BB are the only viable pets in High lvl competitive PvP?

I want to run an X build = It's either: (1) WS Trait required for condi removal (2) I need SoS as well if I am not running SB, etc.

I want to run a trapper build = (1) Can't run full traps coz there is no (a) Stun breaker trap (b) only condi removal is HS which is a heal too, © No trap elite so HAVE to get entangle

So for the changes?

1. **Trapper's Expertise** - https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Trapper%27s_Expertise

Boons and conditions caused by traps last longer. Traps recharge faster and offensive ones cause cripple. Enemies triggering a trap removes 1 condition from you

Cripple (3s): -50% Movement Speed

Recharge Reduced: 20%

Duration Increase: 60%

**Conditions Removed: 1**

_<--Reason, we need condition removal sources as trappers_

2. **Healing Spring Change** - https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Healing_Spring. Heals you and your pet. Place a trap that grants regeneration and cures conditions on allies. **Now pulses healing to allies on top of the current effect**

**Health per Second: 490**

**Increase CD to 32 seconds**

_<--Reason: Make it a little bit supporty Like well of Blood_

3. **Hunter's Tactic Change** - ** https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hunter%27s_Tactics. Scrap the previous effect. Change it to: Gain might on weapon swap.** _<-- Reason is: Whole trait minor is all about weapon swapping_

**3 Might (8s): 60 Condition Damage, 60 Power**

**Reason: **At this point WS is MANDATORY for condition removal, at least we could get away with some wiggle room and slot in PM or EB

4. **Frost Trap** - https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Frost_Trap

Trap. Set a trap that chills foes.

Damage (5x): 1,330 (5.0)?

Chill per Second (2s): -66% Skill Recharge Rate, -66% Movement Speed

Number of Targets: 5

Duration: 4 seconds

Trigger Radius: 180

Effect Radius: 240

Combo Field: Ice

Unblockable

**Breaks stun: 180 radius**

Change to:

_<--Reason: Frost trap is the best candidate since it has the longest CD (comparative to other stun breakers) Fire and Spike Trap would make it too broken with low CD_

5. **Elite Trap** - https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Smoke_Trap

When Smoke Trap is triggered, nearby foes are Blinded and Dazed for 5...9...10 seconds.

Duration: 5 Seconds

Radius: 180

Number of Targets: 5

_<---Reason: Elite trap. That's It_

6. **Emphatic Bond and Poison Master**

**---> As it is now, WS is TOO GOOD NOT TO TAKE ESPECIALLY WITH CONDITION REMOVAL. THERE IS LITERALLY NO REASON TO GET THE OTHER TWO. Again, pigeonholed into WS.

**

**Emphatic bond change:** - Condition duration are split between you and your pet. **Using a Beast skill (F2) Converts 2 Conditions into Boons for allies around you (Cooldown 25 seconds **Conditions are not split while your pet is downed.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Empathic_Bond

Personal Condition Duration: 50%

Pet Condition Duration: 50%

**Conditions Converted to Boons: 2**

**Poison Master Change:** - Upon using a beast ability, your pet's next attack will inflict poison; your poison damage is increased. T**ake less condition damage If target is inflicted with Poison

**

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Poison_Master

Damage Increase: 25%

Poison (8s): 536 Damage, -33% Heal Effectiveness

**Condition Damage Received: -15% Damage**

7. **Celestial Shadow/Druidic Clarity/Ancient Seeds. **MANDATORY TRAITS AGAIN. Instead of Nerfing them, why not buff the other traits?

**

**Cultivated Synergy Change** - Using a healing skill heals allies around you and your pet and **grant them regeneration. You and allies lose a condition when they get Regeneration.

**

Healing: 1,000 (0.2)?

Number of Allied Targets: 5

**Regeneration: 3 Seconds

Radius: 300

Conditions Removed: 1**

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cultivated_Synergy

**Primal Echoes Change** - Reduces recharge of staff skills. Daze nearby foes when you swap to staff. **Remove 2 conditions (AOE) Every weapon swap. ICD = 10 Seconds**

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Primal_Echoes

Daze (1s): Unable to use skills.

Number of Targets: 5

Recharge Reduced: 20%

Radius: 300

Combat Only

**Conditions Removed: 2**

**Verdant Etching Change**- Glyphs gain reduced recharge and cast Lesser Seed of Life. **Make the conditions removed to 2**

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Verdant_Etching

Healing: 216 (0.4745)?

Blindness (4s): Next outgoing attack misses.

** Conditions Removed: 2**

Number of Targets: 5

Radius: 180

Combo Field: Light

Range: 1,200

**Natural Stride Change** - Reduces the duration of movement-impairing conditions and **Control Effects**

Immobilize: Unable to move.

Cripple: -50% Movement Speed

Chilled: -66% Skill Recharge Rate, -66% Movement Speed

Movement Speed Increase: 33%

**Taunt, Knockdown, etc - 33% Duration**

**Lingering Light Change** - When you enter celestial avatar form, your next strike will blind your foe and heal you. While in celestial avatar form, your healing of others is significantly increased. **When entering avatar form, a meadow blooms at your location, granting Vigor (2s) Regeneration (2) Regeneration, and Protection (2s) to allies within it**. _<-- Basically copied Rune of the grove number 6 and nerfed it_

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lingering_Light

**Grace of the land Change** - Grant increased damage to allies within the radius of your celestial avatar abilities. Grants Fury and Retaliation upon entering avatar form._ <_Retal synergizes with Glyph of unity_

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Grace_of_the_Land

Might (12s): 60 Condition Damage, 60 Power

**Fury (3s): 20% Critical Chance

Retaliation (3s): Reflect incoming damage back to its source.**

Number of Allied Targets: 10

##LASTLY: ENABLE PET SWAPPING FOR SOULBEAST. THIS IS THE MOST BULLSHIT MECHANIC I HAVE EVER SEEN

> @"Wondrouswall.7169" said:

> If going for option 2:

>

>

> * Predator's Onslaught: Add "Gain a charge (0.25s ICD) when you inflict a movement-impeding condition on a foe. After 5 charges, you and your pet regain Opening Strike." (Already synergizes with Alpha Strike and all things that apply chill, cripple, and immobilize. Short ICD means you can't do instant-refreshes if tagging a group with Barrage.)

> * Remorseless: Add an additional refresh when killing a foe. (As it once did before and it fits thematically.)

> * Lead the Wind: Add "Refresh Opening Strike for you and your pet when you gain stealth or disable a foe." (Fits into Longbow skills and disabled portion can be used with other weapons and utilities that can inflict hard CC.)

This is a very interesting idea. Although I gotta say, Opening strike really benefits Remorseless a lot, that's why It's such a good trait.

What I propose on top of your idea:

Each grandmaster Should also Affect the concept of opening strikes. Like how remorseless gives it more damage.

Example: Predator's Onslaught - Add "Gain a charge (0.25s ICD) when you inflict a movement-impeding condition on a foe. After 5 charges, you and your pet regain Opening Strike." Your opening strikes deal 15% more damage to movement impaired foes.

Thoughts?

> @"HeadCrowned.6834" said:

> You don't feel like Longbow #5 could use a little twist too?

I would love to see a Poison/Chill barrage

> @"Durzlla.6295" said:

> The patch was annoying due to the size of the nerf they put out, however it’s hardly gonna stop me from playing Druid as my main prof. Still running my glyph/spirit build in PvP to the same success as usual, however due to the recent increase of people trying to avoid team fights at all cost I’ve been forced to dust off shout Druid again which I’ve also been having success with surprisingly lol.

>

>

> > @"StickerHappy.8052" said:

> > > @"EnderzShadow.2506" said:

> > > I play my ranger builds like some people swap to other classes in Ranked.

> > > I've been going back and forth between core lb/gs and a staff sw/wh support druid messing around with glyphs and spirits.

> > >

> > > I don't believe either are ideal in this snowball meta of 'How fast can you dominate the mid fight and snowball into the rest of the match.'

> > > But hey, Glyphs were always fun :)

> > >

> > > Playing Unranked Stronghold with a friend always leads to some laughs...especially playing something not so meta.

> > >

> >

> > I always wanted to play a glyph build, unfortunately going glyph heal needs additional AF regen. The elite sucks as well. Another issue i have is that it tends to lean towards a power based build which i am sick of seeing. Wanna theory craft something?

> >

> > My idea with the elite glyph which i tested a lot back in the day that it would be a good combo with retal, if you can keep it long enough. Glyph heal is also good with rune of the water. The bif deal breaker for gylphs is that is tratiting glyphs a good decision over cele shadow.? I guess if the build is super good then it will

>

> I’ve been running glyphs for like, ever in PvP and have always done well with it. I typically just use Regen and staff for my AF generation. Have never really had too much issue with it in team fights which is what I typically build for.

>

> Then again, I’m a lunatic who not only doesn’t run Celestial shadow or that condi cleanse on CA attunement, but I also don’t run WS at all since I still think it’s one of the most boring traitlines in the game.

Wow. Care to share your builds?

> @"HeadCrowned.6834" said:

> Actually I think playing ranger is more fun now, cuz core, soulbeast and druid have all viable builds. The only thing not fun is being matched vs condi mirage atm. Oh and the terrible matchmaking.

Hmm you mean everything has LB?

> @"jcbroe.4329" said:

> I'm not running anything particularly special, personally.

>

> My problems with the game right now really just stem from how oppressive Firebrand and Scourge are in WvW and PvP for balance.

>

> Firebrand pushes every single other support out of the meta. It has everything in abundance, to the degree that without massive power creep, no other class will ever come close to Firebrand.

>

> And Scourge? It attacks large areas with so much damage and damage utility that it's metagame defining. And then it brings group supporting tools on top of it.

>

> Until ANet does something about either of them at a design level, this game is and will continue to remain Firebrands and Scourges, and the small handful of specs that can kill/survive/escape Firebrands and Scourges.

>

> **That's** what is boring or unfun about the game right now.

This is so true because again va scourge you need to have LB.. Because SB its doable but you are in a much more awkward position because of that 900 range, same with axe. That'S why i hate seeing LB and GS, it seems like you have to play those weapon sets. I rarely see any weird ranger builds. Its always the same LB shenanigans

> @"EnderzShadow.2506" said:

> I play my ranger builds like some people swap to other classes in Ranked.

> I've been going back and forth between core lb/gs and a staff sw/wh support druid messing around with glyphs and spirits.

>

> I don't believe either are ideal in this snowball meta of 'How fast can you dominate the mid fight and snowball into the rest of the match.'

> But hey, Glyphs were always fun :)

>

> Playing Unranked Stronghold with a friend always leads to some laughs...especially playing something not so meta.

>

I always wanted to play a glyph build, unfortunately going glyph heal needs additional AF regen. The elite sucks as well. Another issue i have is that it tends to lean towards a power based build which i am sick of seeing. Wanna theory craft something?

My idea with the elite glyph which i tested a lot back in the day that it would be a good combo with retal, if you can keep it long enough. Glyph heal is also good with rune of the water. The bif deal breaker for gylphs is that is tratiting glyphs a good decision over cele shadow.? I guess if the build is super good then it will

With the recent balance patches, I feel like everyone will just bandwagon soulbeast (although I gotta say druid is still okay)

I for one am bored of the trend "LB/X for any soulbeast build is see, including core ranger and druid"

Any of you guys have some weird/fun non meta ideas that you use in pvp?

> @"Wondrouswall.7169" said:

> Correct. It used to heal the pet every 1s and the Ranger every 3s before the elite specialization balance patch pre-Heart of Thorns in 2015. From there, it was changed to only heal the pet every 1s until the pre-Path of Fire balance patch in 2017 that changed it to what it is now where it heals the pet every 3s.

So meaning to say, this trait is useless for core ranger builds now? I can only see this has use for druid for AF regen / SB melding into BM?

I don't know If it's just me but I remember this trait healing you as well.

IIrc it was "1 second for the pet and 3 seconds for the ranger"

Is it still the case?

I cannot find the iteration of the skill I was mentioning while looking at the change log, It feels like what I am remembering never existed at all?

I can't even find this trait proccing in the combat log

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Natural_Healing_(ranger_trait)

@"InsaneQR.7412"

I do respect your trap changes but honestly Traps need **UTILITY.**

Slotting 2 or more traps in any build would hurt it.

It should have something like dragon hunter traps: Stun break, cleanse or anything.

The trap trait also could use some work. The trait should affect HS too, like apply resistance for defensive traps. Currently, cripple only affects offensive.

No offense but, I think cele is the wrong approach here.

Reasons are:

1.) You basically have very few conditions, Specifically, the dagger. The condition damage stat is totally wasted.

2.) No might stacking. In order for a true cele build to shine, might stacking is an integral part of the build.

Imo, this exact build can be better with a mix of Zerk/Cavalier/Pally/Valkyrie or anything of those in combination.

Poison master? <---- this is so weak on top of being awkwardly placed on a GM spot which competes with 2 condition removal ones

Refined toxins?

Tail wind? <---- I feel like this should be merged with the fury one?

Hidden barbs and Sharpened edges needs to be merged as well?

Any feedback guys?

For pvp, it's not gonna work for higher tiered matches unless you use a tanky amulet. The evade from sword is just so good to lose.

> @"Chaith.8256" said:

> > @"StickerHappy.8052" said:

> > True. Although I gotta say, Chrono, Procmancer are from the same classes being complained now. Same candy just a different flavor. All the other condition builds for regular play (non top tier) will be even more non existent with the change.

>

> Condi Trapper Soulbeast would be possible usable without Mirage/Scourge, just remembered.

>

> Lots of professions are just pushed really hard in a direction away from Condi. There's core burn Engi, core Necro, core burn Guard, but those core specs are in the dumpster. Berserker, but that Elite spec is in the dumpster. Herald can be made to run a condi build, but the profession is in the dumpster. I don't even know if Renegade can be said to have PvP 'builds' as if the build matters, but I guess maybe a condi build is possible? :lol: Needless to say, Renegade in the dumpster. Weaver does good hybrid damage, but a full condi role is not possible.

>

> Tempest, Scrapper, Druid, Dragonhunter, Holosmith, Deadeye, Spellbreaker, Firebrand these are all very pushed into power or support roles, I don't see a possible condi build.

>

> Condi Trapper Soulbeast, Condi Daredevil, Condi Chrono, Condi Reaper are the best ones I can think of. Berserker, Herald/Renegade, core Engi, core Necro, core Guard, with a few changes these would be possible condition carries as well.

>

> Mirage and Scourge really are just insanely better than the next options of course. The biggest thing I want is a little diversity in a condi build that can teamfight, it's just been Necro/Reaper/Scourge forever.

Oh I totally agree with you. I gotta be clear about my response to you. The december 12 patch does not target those 2 classes specifically (I would've wanted that to happen though). The patch says that it will deal wwwith conditions in general from being bursty, in this case with your post, any build with burst burning would be affected (most popular one would be burn guard, or burn engie to a degree). The addition of the that ramp up time or any nerf associated with it would hurt all of those classes you mentioned (on top of scourge and mirage)

I do not wanna assume but I just fear that Anet would also hit all these classes that we would love to see in some team action.

The patch should just hit the main culprits which is Scourge and Mirage. With the patch (hopefully they address this very well) that diversity in condi builds will be even more extinct.

The patch would bring lesser stacks but with longer durations.

Main problem I see here is the most obvious one: You need time to get conditions to ramp up damage right? On top of all the cleanses, How would that happen specifically?

Other problem associated with it is: Not every condition build has access to burst conditions (I am thinking about Burn, Confusion, Torment) Only Burn guard, Burn engie, Mesmer (Chrono, Core, Mirage) Scourge/ Reaper have access to these kinds of stacks and conditions. Poison Master Ranger (if you can reach 20 stacks of poison) is the only remotely close competitor when we talk about bursting with conditions

My Hope: Either nerf the culprit classes OR nerf the culprit conditions. To be fair the post from Irenio is pretty vague. Just going off Anet's track record here (which I hope doesn't happen) hopefully they don't hit the other classes.

> @"Chaith.8256" said:

> > @"otto.5684" said:

> > If condi builds are so good, then why don’t we see them being played more often? There are not being played not because they are overshadowed by mirage and scourge, but because they are not competitive.

>

> You realize we're talking about a hypothetical situation? Mirage and Scourge suddenly being nerfed out of existence. You don't see them currently being played more often because.. that hypothetical situation isn't real - of course you'd just see Mirage and Scourge played all the time.

>

> Condi Thief, Chronomancer, Procmancer, I would expect in a hypothetical situation where Mirage and Scourge were either not usable or not applying conditions, we'd pick these best condi builds available. My point was that there will always be a condition damage threat so you don't just build to counter power.

>

True. Although I gotta say, Chrono, Procmancer are from the same classes being complained now. Same candy just a different flavor. All the other condition builds for regular play (non top tier) will be even more non existent with the change.

Ever gotten tired of LB rangers/druids/Soulbeast? I did.

Here is the build I used in Plat this season.

## 1st Variant

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQNAsYVnE8Cdrg1CCe8Cs8iFDBjJAM6aA5X3sb4tZDk6qalI9bA-jZBQQBs7BAAg9HOYZgUdGAK3hAAA

Perma protection from condis and direct damage.

Good damage from hidden barbs and poison master.

**Sustain from quickdraw, Evades**.

* SB#3

* Dagger#4

* Sword #3

* Smokescale Evade

**Pets**

* Moa - For Immune/Stun breaker. More Protection and the Heal

* Smokescale - Evade, Damage, CC

**Condition Management**

* Bear Stance

* Protection

* Sigil of Cleansing

**Stun Breaks**

* Unstoppable Union

* Protect Me

* Unflinching Fortitude

## 2nd Variant

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQNAsYVnE8Cdrg9rAe8Cs8iFDBjJAM6aANdgUXVL/62dDvnYeLvA-jZR6wAAODADfAAY2fg3hAgbZAA

The key here is to out sustain conditions via Regen+Rugged growth+SoR+Predator's cunning

* Signet of Renewal

* Bear Stance

* Sigil of Cleansing

* Spiritual Reprieve

* Photosynthesize

* Signet of leadership

Sustain wise its the same sources

Evades, Regen, Leech, Rugged Growth

**Pets**

* Carrion Devourer - Evade. The F2 Procs Predator's cunning

* Jacaranda - Sustain and AoE damage

## **BOTH BUILDS**

**Pet Options:**

* Brown Bear

* Siamoth

* Black Bear

**Runes:**

* Rune of the Earth

* Rune of Water

I for one am currently married to Viper's nest for the cleave potential when someone is attempting to res.

**Screens**

https://imgur.com/a/tacHr

Hope this gives you guys a breath of fresh air from the same old build.

Ever gotten tired of LB rangers/druids/Soulbeast? I did.

Here is the build I used in Plat this season.

1st variant (More sustain)

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQNAsYVnE8Cdrg1CCe8Cs8iFDBjJAM6aA5X3sb4tZDk6qalI9bA-jZBQQBs7BAAg9HOYZgUdGAK3hAAA

Sigils of Cleansing is a must.

Perma protection from condis and direct damage.

Good damage from hidden barbs and poison master.

Sustain from quickdraw, Evades.

Moa for immune and the heals and the protection synergy.

> @"HeadCrowned.6834" said:

> Shortbow doesnt work because it has zero utility. You miss the knockback and the invis from the longbow, and the range of the shortbow is also shorter than longbow. I did OKish as well once with sb/staff but its just subpar.

This is actually false.

0 utility? An evade? An Immob? A CC? And poison? 4 projectile finishers? Longbow is useless in melee range unless you hit the 4 or the stealth to disengage. Perma swiftness on SB 3 too. This is coming from me who won multiple duels with top tier rangers and reached Plat-High plat using SB. I have never used LB at all because it is too boring for me.

Only pros of longbow is burst and range. Well burst of course since it is a power oriented weapon.

If SB had a 1200 range, scourges are easy. Another thing that SB lacks is it doesn't really scale well with power, any of its skills don't.

> @anduriell.6280 said:

> i would just love to see a build which doesn't rely in wilderness knowledge (or trooper runes) to survive de condi meta... I've been playing WS builds for over 2 years now and i can't stand it anymore.

It's entirely possible. I reached plat using Poison master on WS.

> @Shadelang.3012 said:

> (after all this time...people still forget I exist...im not saying im the best...but kitten it hurts when people forget im even near the level)

Lol we are unknown thats why. prolly too casual hahaha

The #6 functionality that says get 7% toughness... when you do not have an active pet (meaning when you go into BM) does not work.

Ambidexterity sometimes work, sometimes doesn't.

In the video it works, but now it affects both sets. Enter the map again you won't get the 125 condition damage. The reduced cd works tho.

Ambidexterity is bugged too after patch

> @ProtoMarcus.7649 said:

> Yeah I agree that **Moa Stance** is broken... Traited is _**TWELVE SECONDS**_ duration on a 25s CD - almost 50% uptime

> I'd be fine if the **base duration** was lowered to 6s but keeping the CD as it is - that's a 25% duration decrease

>

> For dolyak stance, yeah, still a bit sad that it is only 1 of 2 sources of stability for the ranger, and compared to Warrior's Balance Stance, it's a little lackluster - I understand it has the additional effect of not being affected by movement-imparing condis - perhaps that can come to play?

>

> **One extra stack** and **one extra second** of stability whenever a movement impeding condition is being 'applied' to you (won't affect you anyway) or whenever you cleanse them on stance trigger?

>

> EDIT: Forgot they buffed base moa to 10s... So traited is 15s - reducing it to a base 8s (which was the original duration?) would be okay

Just wanna make sure. The traited duration is AFTER 150% added right?