ArmageddonAsh.6430

> @demonsmind.4327 said:

> Ive played s/d weaver in both spvp and pve and i personally feel like its pretty strong. Running arc/water/weaver which feels like the good old cele ele days. And running pretty much zerker weaver with s/d which hits 5ks 6ks when you combine skills. Again I've played weaver for 5hrs so still to early to pass final judgements but i didnt feel underpowered i just had to play my ele at MUCH faster pace . So i could pretty much drown targets a flurry of atks. Could post builds i was using when i get home if anyone want to see.

Weaver isnt underpowered. Sword is. Staff Weaver can deal insane damage. Sword = A weapon that has dreadful direct damage, dreadful (compared to other condi classes) condi damage. Easily kited. One meh gap closer. The utilities are pretty meh as well, they feel like they need to be buffed a little bit, Barrier utility needs a BIG buff or a much, much shorter cool down

> @HyperLooser.2698 said:

> biggest problem for me is that the barrier amounts are too low, its basically nonexistent mechanic. Both in HoT and PoF content it makes no difference to survivability, if i have barrier or not on me. If you have 20k HP, which goes to 0 in like 3-4 seconds against 2-3 mobs, 500 barrier is a joke, which ofc decays pretty fast too, which makes barrier even smaller by the time the enemy actually hits you.

> The best survivability, which also deals ok damage build i have is air+earth for perma regen and the mass CC i have+ stability trait for stances.

>

> Barrier needs to be increased **a lot** and the decay part removed in combat, but only kept outside combat so you can't have pre-combat barrier.

Yeah but it would need to be increased differently for each class, look at all the access that Scourge has for example. An idea could be something like:

Replace Woven Strikes with :

Hexed Strikes: You take reduced damage from Conditions when you have barrier active. Remove 1 condition every 1/2second when you have Barrier active.

I would say making it an active version of the old Diamond Skin would be good. So you become immune to conditions while you have Barrier up and you remove condis with it being active. I think the reason this would be balanced is because we have really low access to Barrier unlike say Scourge. Along with this, i would buff Elemental Refreshment to make it at least 1k base and maybe improve the scaling for it because Ele has VERY low access to it and its meant to be pretty much our defense when in melee.

> @Rain.9213 said:

> Yeah the sword is absolutely terrible for power damage. Even running full zerk+scholar with Air/Arcane/Weaver and full damage traits, I'm barely able to deal the amount of damage I would effortlessly put out on a marauder build Revenant with defensive traits slotted in. It's pretty sad and laughable.

>

> Hence my previous comment directed at you. It seems very clear to me that the sword is designed for hybrid/condi damage. By itself, it really doesn't stack many conditions as you said but combined with the Fire or Earth line plus the access to conditions on Arcane, you can actually pump out a good variety of conditions. While the only big damage will come from burning, the bleeding stacks will help your damage and the rest will let you cover your damaging condies. Plus if you're running some Grievers or Viper's gear, you will be hitting some additional decent spikes in damage with some of the dual skills- particularly Fire 3, Air 3, and Earth 3- that will help you apply some instant pressure while your burning and bleeding melts them.

>

> Still, I agree with you completely that the Sword needs a physical damage buff. I really hope they rework or tune down some of the damage boost traits and move that damage over to Sword, thereby nerfing that ridiculous 45k staff Weaver build and giving sword a chance to at least shine in WvW and PvP.

The problem with it being a hybrid weapon is that it does dreadful direct damage but it only has TWO conditions that deal damage. They get cleared and you have to start all over again. Add in that Sword is 100% melee, you will struggle against anyone that has range or mobility. What i would have liked to have seen if they gave us some access to Torment to counter the fact that we are so limited with mobility and range.

> @lLobo.7960 said:

> Didnt see any griever there

If you have the items, you can get some of them from the Skirmish dude in WvW i believe, i also noticed that the triumphant gear that i was hoarding also gave me the option to use griever but as a roamer, that would be suicide so i thought no thanks.

> @Dawdler.8521 said:

> Hahahaha...

> An engineer without the stomp gyro is pointless to bring to WvW or sPvP. Holosmith IMO makes the class unviable, _especially_ for havoc/roaming in WvW.

I totally disagree, maybe some players got used to having it so easy with them not having to finish people, they are nowhere near unviable. They are still very, very strong options. You're basically saying the ONLY thing that made Engineer good was Stomp Gyro, which is funny because Engineer did fine before HoT and they will be fine without it.

> @ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

> Given what they did to Unravel Hexes, they killed any chance of Ele not needing to run Water. It is SO obviously built to require you to run Water now, Having to run several trait lines and specific skills that have a singular affect (removing condis) is so annoying considering other classes get skills/traits that remove conditions and do something else.

>

> Be it remove condis from self/alies and remove boons from enemies, to remove condis and heal, to remove condis and damage enemies. Ele has Cleansing Fire that Burns, but that cool down is seriously broken considering what others can do with skills that remove condis and do something else. kitten, remove the Burning and reduce the cool down to 10-15seconds. Make it a Ammo skill. 3 Charges, 20second recharge. Remove 3 condis and 4seconds Burning. Boom. Helpful.

>

> The big problem is, while Ele has quite a few ways to remove conditions, they are ALL over the place, some good. Some bad. Some totally useless. Having to take Several trait lines and skills in order to simply not melt to conditions says something and even with all of that you will still be at the disadvantage.

>

> The condition removal is too over the place, Fire has 1 but its on a dreadful cool down to be that useful. Air has nothing. Water has some good ones and some that are SO heavily reliant on your weapons and your utilities. Earth had a GREAT anti condi condition, that actually had a counter - Diamond Skin was a great trait. It was SO easy to counter by not being full bunker condi, those players cried and Anet decided to make it near useless :( Another example was Unravel Hexes, i can kinda see why they did it partly due to the text being rather poor to explain what it did. Adding the Regen shows CLEARLY they are saying "You. Must. Run. Water" They could have easily adjusted Unravel Hexes to make it a viable option to take it without going Water, without going Water its a dreadful trait. Going Water makes it solid, IF you have the right setup for it due to its reliance on swiftness/Superspeed so even then you would need Water + Air/Arcane to make the best use of it :/

>

>

I cant edit the post, guess you get limited time to edit but, what do you guys think about this:

Change Woven Strike to:

Hexed Strikes: Using a Dual skill grants Resistance. Remove 1 Condition every second when you have Resistance active. Remove 1 condition every 1/2second when you have Barrier active.

Make it so that its only SELF applied Barrier that grants the condi removal and i think this would be decent. I mean even with the 1 condi removed every 1/2second with Barrier still wouldnt make our barrier much good anyway. The 50second cool down barrier is like 3.5k. Easily countered by an auto attack and we are hardly that mobile with the Sword anyway. While they are at it, they could buff Stone Resonance to actually make it a skill worthy of having a 50second recharge time! Or reduce the recharge time to like 15-20seconds as its such a poor skill at the moment, 3.5k barrier is worthless 99% of the time but if combined with the above trait change it could be a worthy skill, even if its just for the condi removal but would need a lower cool down.

Another idea could be something like:

Hexed Strikes: You take reduced damage from Conditions when you have barrier active. Remove 1 condition every 1/2second when you have Barrier active.

I would say making it an active version of the old Diamond Skin would be good. So you become immune to conditions while you have Barrier up and you remove condis with it being active. I think the reason this would be balanced is because we have really low access to Barrier unlike say Scourge. Along with this, i would buff Elemental Refreshment to make it at least 1k base and maybe improve the scaling for it because Ele has VERY low access to it and its meant to be pretty much our defense when in melee.

What do you guys think?

> @Jski.6180 said:

> Why not just make it a condi clear when you get swiftness or super speed?

One simple reason. We wouldn't need Water. The biggest problem i have with it is that while other classes do have trait lines but those that dont have such great condi removal in traitlines, Mesmer for example. Have some great skills for condi removal, Phantasmal Disencharter for example is a HUGELY important skill, removes condis AND boons, has a MUCH lower cool down and if played right can stay up to continue removing boons and condis. Then look at Cleansing Fire - 3 Condis removed 3stacks of Burning for 4 seconds on a 40second cool down!? If you're not playing Condi or hybrid the burning is USELESS why does it have a 40second cool down!? Guardian get a stun break and a condi to boon skill on the same cool down!

The other reason this would be a bad idea - it still requires another traitline, it would move from Water to being needed to make Air being needed and wouldnt do anything to change the need for specific skills, traits and weapons to make use of it. We need a condi removal that is based around Weaver. Not needing other Traitlines.

How about this:

Hexed Strikes: Using a Dual skill grants Resistance. Remove 1 Condition every second when you have Resistance active. Remove 1 condition every 1/2second when you have Barrier active.

Make it so that its only SELF applied Barrier that grants the condi removal and i think this would be decent. I mean even with the 1 condi removed every 1/2second with Barrier still wouldnt make our barrier much good anyway. The 50second cool down barrier is like 3.5k. Easily countered by an auto attack lol

> @"Karl McLain.5604" said:

> * Unravel Hexes: Trait has been renamed to Woven Stride. Trait now grants swiftness when inhibiting conditions are inflicted, regeneration when swiftness or superspeed is gained, and increases swiftness effectiveness from 33% to 40%.

This change is SO annoying, this shows 100% that Anet WANT to force ele to be reliant on the Water trait line for condi removal. This trait COULD have been a great way to not shoehorn players into Water, but no. That wouldn't be what Anet wants. Elementalists have been crying for GOOD condi removal outside of Water since beta! We had that in Diamond Skin, it was a GREAT trait that was strong but easily countered by not being full bunker Condi. That was then gutted and made useless.

This trait IS the same. Without Water traitline, this trait is pretty dreadful. The worst part is, we have traits that slightly counter Movement condis. Our biggest problem with Conditions are the damaging ones, the ones that can melt you in seconds and this trait does NOTHING to help fix that. Even with taking Water, you are still reliant on using certain other traitlines and/or skills to get an affect from it. This isnt what Ele needed. They need a viable condi removal/counter that wasnt reliant on other traits lines. Wasnt reliant on needed specific skills and abilities

I am pretty sure they either nerfed or its bugged but Pyromancers Puissance on Sword Fire auto attack now only procs on the last hit of the combo. I am sure that it was on every hit during the test and given that the combo is like 2seconds from start to finish kinda makes it kinda poor, considering that Dagger Fire is 1/2 second so will get 3-4stacks for each 1 stack that Sword gets...

> @lLobo.7960 said:

> On open sword Im running sword/dagger with the new griever stats and having a blast.

>

> jump in with air 2, air/earth for cc, fire for fire field and air-fire...

> water and earth both have good evade on #2 to help avoid big attacks.

>

> the dmg coud be better, the speed too...

Is that PvE? WvW? PvP? I dont think that would be that viable if roaming WvW. You do get mobility (sorely needed) but the loss of sustain and defense that Focus offers would be killer for the kinda damage that some of the specs can deal. The problem is still the case for ele - having to use multiple skills, combos and such to do something that other classes can do without even weapon swapping at times.

Though thats an odd opener. I would have gone for something like Fire/Air. You use Ride the Lightning to get in, then use Updraft, followed by Flame Uprising. Then go into what ever combos and such you want. This leaves you with Polaric Leap as another CC, gap closer option. Or maybe even Air/Air start with the same Ride The Lightening and Updraft, then use Polaric Leap followed by Quantum Strike. Then you could go into Earth for Gale Strike and so on.

There are plenty of builds i think that will still be viable, if roaming. Anything condi will continue to be strong, most Thief builds. Chrono, Daredevil, Reaper and the like will continue to be very strong. I think the likes of Tempest could be countered strongly by Spellbreaker though, only time will tell but i dont think there are many builds that would instantly become useless simply because of PoF

Engineer have always been viable. Both in groups and in solo. Some can be near unkillable. Others can melt people with ease, they have great access to CC, Conditions, Mobility, Damage. What would it be that they dont have that would make them unviable?

> @juno.1840 said:

> I'm beginning to think power-staff is where it's at.

>

> Survivability is difficult in melee in the new zones. Even with Arcane/Water, I'm working hard to stay alive. I was all celestial but the damage was not cutting it with water/arcane. I'm now Marauder armor with celestial trinkets, runes of strength, marauder staff with bloodlust and strength sigils.

>

> I'm taking the dmg traits in Weaver. At 2700 power, if I time the attunements right I see 4-5k hits, but I'm working my kitten off trying to sequence it right and still not die.

Yeah i have noticed, oddly that staff for me deals more damage with auto attacks than my Sword does. When surely. It should be the other way around given if you're running sword you are 90% melee. You have limited access to gap closers and very limited ranged options. I am talking WvW group/zerg fights, i deal more damage with staff (worse stats) than i do with my Ascended sword, sure i die fast when caught running stff but i sitll have the chance to escape unlike Sword with its crappy mobility. Either way, if i am caught in either. Its death. I just have better chance at living if im at range (shock) but also deal more damage.

Given what they did to Unravel Hexes, they killed any chance of Ele not needing to run Water. It is SO obviously built to require you to run Water now, Having to run several trait lines and specific skills that have a singular affect (removing condis) is so annoying considering other classes get skills/traits that remove conditions and do something else.

Be it remove condis from self/alies and remove boons from enemies, to remove condis and heal, to remove condis and damage enemies. Ele has Cleansing Fire that Burns, but that cool down is seriously broken considering what others can do with skills that remove condis and do something else. Hell, remove the Burning and reduce the cool down to 10-15seconds. Make it a Ammo skill. 3 Charges, 20second recharge. Remove 3 condis and 4seconds Burning. Boom. Helpful.

The big problem is, while Ele has quite a few ways to remove conditions, they are ALL over the place, some good. Some bad. Some totally useless. Having to take Several trait lines and skills in order to simply not melt to conditions says something and even with all of that you will still be at the disadvantage.

The condition removal is too over the place, Fire has 1 but its on a dreadful cool down to be that useful. Air has nothing. Water has some good ones and some that are SO heavily reliant on your weapons and your utilities. Earth had a GREAT anti condi condition, that actually had a counter - Diamond Skin was a great trait. It was SO easy to counter by not being full bunker condi, those players cried and Anet decided to make it near useless :( Another example was Unravel Hexes, i can kinda see why they did it partly due to the text being rather poor to explain what it did. Adding the Regen shows CLEARLY they are saying "You. Must. Run. Water" They could have easily adjusted Unravel Hexes to make it a viable option to take it without going Water, without going Water its a dreadful trait. Going Water makes it solid, IF you have the right setup for it due to its reliance on swiftness/Superspeed so even then you would need Water + Air/Arcane to make the best use of it :/

It's not just the Sword. The utilities feel like they have been purposefully weakened to make them fit this unnecessary Ammo system. Take the Barrier one. It has a 50second recharge time and i am getting a MASSIVE 3.4k Shield!? Really!? The same goes for the traits, the GM traits are not worthy of being called GM traits. They are so weak compared to other classes GM traits.