Israel.7056

If they don't want to PvP they shouldn't be in WvW. There's no open world PVE ganking in this game. I've played games where the PVErs couldn't even safely get to their raid without getting jumped.

> @Rektlol.8293 said:

> > @Israel.7056 said:

> > Running open sucks you can't blame guilds for wanting to run closed.

>

> I definitely don't disagree with you, I'm just saying that Mag wanted to compete with BG in the "big picture" (PPT + PPK), guilds would prob have to start running open a few nights.

Yeah maybe but I don't think it's worth it in the long run. Look at what running open all the time has done to BG guilds. They've gotten so bad they can be beaten by uncoordinated pugs who aren't even on TS.

Fighting BG is a great challenge overall due to their numbers and their general ruthlessness but there's no reward if you actually beat them in PPT because they just quit the game until they get more people. So either we lose to them and have fights or we try to organize and if we succeed we kill the game. There's no upside to winning.

Running open sucks you can't blame guilds for wanting to run closed.

> @Titan.3472 said:

> > @Israel.7056 said:

> > > @Titan.3472 said:

> > > Last T1 server that had an elitist wvw guilds behavior excluding any other people was SoR and we all know how they ended back then and what is their place now. Take notes Mag. xD

> >

> > And anyone who was around during that time knows that SOR's eventual collapse had nothing to do with elitism. Nice try though.

>

> I was there. And I was part of the BG crew former member of [cA] & [WM] (NA/BG) and [RG] (EU/SFR) that nuked [iRON] (SoR) and make them quit over their elitist epic fail behavior. Then SoR felt into abyss. Same is occuring with Mag right now. Praise our Chaos Lord Shiva for granting us the gift of destroying Worlds.

Kinda doubt it, you were the laughing stock of BG for years when I was there, I assume you still are. Gz on pity invites from Jang and Sehoon I guess? IRON was probably the most pug friendly guild on SoR they ran open almost every raid and they were super patient with pugs. They disbanded because their GM quit due to RL problems. You're just making stuff up. If anything what SoR needed was more elitism not less they tended to coddle bad players and try a little too hard to turn trash into something good instead of just buying guilds. BG went another route, we just bought the best guilds from other servers until there wasn't any serious competition left. Season 1 we went and got Za Drots from EU to cover a timezone no one else had any coverage for and we won with ease. The only way Mag falls is if the core players quit the game. Could happen I think a lot of people are playing PUBG now while waiting for the next MMO.

EDIT: SoR collapsed because their core got tired of trying to carry the server all the time and they refused to just buy guilds to stay competitive. End of story.

> @Titan.3472 said:

> Last T1 server that had an elitist wvw guilds behavior excluding any other people was SoR and we all know how they ended back then and what is their place now. Take notes Mag. xD

And anyone who was around during that time knows that SOR's eventual collapse had nothing to do with elitism. Nice try though.

> @"Nuka Cola.8520" said:

>

> Spellbreaker won't be broken for the years to come, so he can jump on it, whatever. Also, is balancing staff 5 on rev supposed to kill the class or something? Some of you rely too much on one skill.

Well there's only 5 skills on staff and one is an auto that does mediocre damage and two are defensive oriented skills. Punishing sweep can hit hard but it has no mobility attached to it. SoTM is the big mobile nuke/cc on staff. If you miss SoTM the staff burst goes way down so yeah it's a pretty important skill for revenant. I would even argue that it's one of the defining skills for the class as a whole so a 50 percent nerf to its damage is a huge change.

Rev doesn't have big multi skill wombo combo chains like some classes do, you basically dump your energy into a couple skills and then auto attack or swap legends and blow your energy again. That's just the way they designed the class.

> @"Nuka Cola.8520" said:

> > @Israel.7056 said:

> > Because spvp and WvW are completely different in terms of stats available. I mean imagine if they allowed trailblazer scourges in SPvP. Or trailblazer anything really. That'd be a completely different game mode.

>

> Yeah, wvw is much more unbalanced with additional stats, runes etc. So at least apply spvp nerfs so wvw gets a little more balanced? Or is wvw supposed to be a mess (balance wise) for the years to come?

What makes you think Spvp nerfs would make WvW any more balanced? Nerf rev enough and that guy just switches weapon sets or maybe just hops on a spellbreaker or maybe he goes full trailblazer aids rev. You might have an easier matchup against those builds I couldn't say but my point is that there's always going to be the next strong thing. And if everything else but what you're playing gets nerfed then everyone just swaps to whatever you're currently playing and the cycle begins again. My advice is to just swap classes if you really feel something is overpowered and just play that thing until it gets nerfed. If you insist on sticking with a class because you love it then accept that some things are gonna be annoying to fight. Personally I think SoTM was fine pre nerf in pvp and I think it's fine in WvW. SoTM isn't even on my top 20 list of stuff that annoys me in WvW.

Roamers will have raptors too just saying.

Because spvp and WvW are completely different in terms of stats available. I mean imagine if they allowed trailblazer scourges in SPvP. Or trailblazer anything really. That'd be a completely different game mode.

In PvE the warband stuff works pretty well. In PvP or WvW it's basically useless.

> @Juba.8406 said:

> > @Jeknar.6184 said:

> > > @Juba.8406 said:

> > > Jokes Aside :) , WvW is now yet again enjoyable, This reset was the best in weeks since the release of PoF, We can go melee now instead of the horrible Pirate ship play style without the fear of dying in just 4 seconds :)

> >

> > How exactly are you going melee with all the spellbreaker bubbles that mean sure death by CC if you are inside them? Am I missing somenthing?

>

> Its not Full Boons Corruption, Getting boons ripped is not the end of life.

>

> And actually Boons gets reapplied faster than ripped, SB bubble is on 90s cooldown and lasts for 10s , now compare that with pre nerfed Scourge.

>

>

If it's one spellbreaker you're 100 percent correct but most of the guilds I see on a regular basis are running 5-10 spellbreakers so there's almost no downtime on Winds being up at some position in the fight. This becomes particularly difficult to deal with in any sort of narrow terrain where it's virtually impossible to move out of Winds once it goes up. The thing about Winds is not just that it rips your boons it's that it also prevents reapplication while inside the bubble. 10s of no stab or resi is more than enough to get anyone killed but it usually only takes 2 or 3s to start generating singles. I'm not saying that scourge wasn't overtuned. It was. I'm just saying that SBs are still going to make pushing rough.

From my perspective the entire WvW meta from small scale to large scale from launch until now has been set by the relative effectiveness of guardians at any given time. So the first and most important question that any guild group has always had to determine with their comp has always been and continues to be: "Can it bring down a guardian heavy group?" The same question has to be asked of any pug build if you're planning on participating in any medium to large scale fights: "what happens if they have a lot of guardians?" If your build can't handle guardians you're going to be useless against any even semi organized group.

The other corollary to this permanent reality of WvW is that your comp or your individual build isn't viable if it can't handle fighting guardians.

The thing about necros going all the way back to launch and persisting until today is that they've been the only class that's consistently had a build that could apply enough pressure to a guardian heavy melee oriented group to actually give them something to worry about when pushing. At one point it was power wells then it was shout reapers with HoT and now trailblazer Scourges in PoF they've always been the big guardian killer because they're the only class with enough aoe spike damage to punish Guardian heavy groups that just push into things.

Revenant is a little different. Revenants at the beginning of HoT were able to exploit one of the fatal flaws of guardians; they're slow and they can be beaten by trading at range. So glassy and mobile hammer Rev became an effective tool to use against Guardians until they nerfed CoR. Melee ball made its way back and Revenant resistance uptime coupled with boonshare mesmer and stab guard made melee ball gameplay basically god mode in HoT. Condi revs coupled with shout reapers can kill basically anything in a melee trade and once people started figuring that out guilds were just running condi melee ball.

Now the meta has changed and this time it's because guardians can be effectively hard countered in a melee trade. But this isn't just because of scourges, which are ofcourse very strong, this is because of the advent of spellbreakers. The combination of spellbreakers, scourges and to a lesser extent condi revs can stop any guardian heavy melee ball group dead in their tracks with unsurvivable amounts of condi spike and no means of maintaining stability or resistance. This makes pushing a very risky proposition and so many groups are now just playing it safe at range.

But to me this is a problem that still centers around the relative strength of guardians. When guardians are strong, any group can just stack guardians and push through anything and when guardians are weak no one can push. The whole game mode has revolved around guardians since launch and continues to do so today. If they nerf scourge and spellbreaker then guardians will once again rule everything and we'll go right back to permapush melee condi ball meta.

It's totally fair to be able to waypoint an enemy keep. I'm sure it's demoralizing but that's the point.

I don't really agree with his reason for playing but I'm glad he's having fun.