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UfoCoffee.2084

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Posts posted by UfoCoffee.2084

  1. > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

    >

    > > Maybe you're from a non-english speaking country and don't understand very well, in which case i apologise. I'll explain for you.

    > Insulting people's intelligence or accusing them of being a foreigner is not exactly a productive way to hold a conversation. Good day.

     

    A foreigner? I was being genuine with this sentence. I'm european and we all have different languages here so sometimes there's misunderstanding. It's not a question of intelligence if someone doesn't get the word proper if English isn't their 1st language.

     

     

  2. > @"whoknocks.4935" said:

    > People complain about condi mirage because of the visual clutter it makes on scree and most of the times you target a clone and waste essential skills on clones and get frustrated by that.

    > But when a boonbeast regen 4% health/sec without even clicking the healing skill that's fine... because at least you landed some skill on him...

    > Or when an holo jumps on you and with a CC chain drop you from 100% to downed state in 3-4 seconds, that's all fine...

    > Against boonbeast and holos you have the illusion it was a fair fight just because you can target them easy, and you see how your skills hit the target, but the reality you didn't have any chance as well... maybe even less than condi mirage.

    >

    > When i roam in wvw before a condi mirage is able to kill me can pass even 5 minutes, a good holo or boonbeast no matter how i tryhard they can finish the fight in 10-15 seconds and down me.

     

    Visual clutter is an issue, especially when there's usually 2 mirage in a lot of games. But that's not the main reason people complain. People complain about the ammount of evades, invulns, mobility, dazes, interrupts, blinds and high damage all packed into one class.

  3. > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

    > > @"ferbz.6987" said:

    > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

    > > > You can say Mirages are still OP, but you can't say that haven't gotten their fair share of nerfing **literally every single patch** across all aspects of the specialization since the phantasm rework. The only exception was scepter getting buffed and the underwater rework. Do they deserve more right now? Yeah. And more are certainly coming just like they've come every patch.

    > > >

    > > > Game Update Notes: December 11, 2018

    > > > * Axes of Symmetry: The physical damage of this skill has been split between game modes and reduced by about 30% in PvP only.

    > > > * Lingering Thoughts: The ammunition-recharge time of this skill has been split between game modes and has been increased from 8 seconds to 10 seconds in PvP only.

    > > > * Tides of Time: Fixed a bug in which this skill could strike foes multiple times per wave.

    > > > * Chaos Vortex: The might granted by this skill has been changed from 3 stacks for 8 seconds to 2 stacks for 15 seconds.

    > > > * Jaunt: The number of charges this skill can hold has been split between game modes and reduced from 3 charges to 2 charges in PvP and WvW.

    > > > * Signet of Humility: The defiance-bar damage performed by this skill has been reduced from 10 seconds to 6 seconds to match the duration of the skill's transformation.

    > > > * Signet of Inspiration: The active effect of this signet no longer shares the mesmer's boons with allies. Instead, it now extends the duration of all allies' current boons by 5 seconds.

    > > > * Signet of Midnight: This signet's passive effect now grants 180 expertise at level 80 instead of a flat condition duration in order to be consistent with other signet effects.

    > > > * Mimic: This skill's recharge time has been reduced from 75 seconds to 40 seconds and is now increased by the recharge time of the utility skill that it affects. The recharge time of this skill cannot be reset by other mesmer skills.

    > > > * Portal Entre: The duration of time the mesmer has to place Portal Exeunt has been split between games modes. The duration has been reduced from 60 seconds to 30 seconds in PvP and WvW, but remains unchanged in PvE.

    > > > * Well of Action: The duration of quickness that the final pulse of this skill applies has been increased from 4 seconds to 5 seconds.

    > > > * Well of Recall: The duration of alacrity that the final pulse of this skill applies has been increased from 4 seconds to 5 seconds. Its casting time has been reduced from 1 second to 0.75 seconds.

    > > > * Continuum Split: Fixed a bug in which the rift object that is created by this skill could fail to be destroyed when the the "resign" command (/resign, /gg, /surrender, /forfeit/, /qq, /ff) was used.

    > > > * Bountiful Disillusionment: This trait now only applies boons to the mesmer.

    > > > * Danger Time: This trait's effect now applies to illusions.

    > > > * Lost Time: This trait now delivers its slowing strike when the mesmer disables their target instead of after the mesmer has built charges. Its base strike damage has been reduced by 50%, but its critical-hit damage has been increased by 100%.

    > > > * Mirror of Anguish: This trait has been renamed Auspicious Anguish. It now causes the skill Distortion to instantly recharge when the mesmer is affected by a control effect. It also causes the distortion effect to grant a random boon when it ends. The cooldown of this trait is 50 seconds.

    > > > * Power Block: The damage of this skill has been increased by 20% so that it now matches its tooltip. This trait can no longer critically hit foes.

    > > >

    > > > Game Update Notes: October 2, 2018

    > > > * Fixed a bug in which certain skills that break enemy targeting would stop the mesmer's autoattack.

    > > > * Continuum Shift: Fixed an API profession classification on this skill.

    > > > * Signet of Inspiration: Normalized the duration of boons applied by this skill to 3 seconds. Might and swiftness are exceptions to this rule and remain at durations of 20 seconds and 5 seconds respectively.

    > > > * Illusionary Inspiration: This trait now causes mesmers to heal all nearby allies whenever they summon an illusion. Competitive-mode healing effectiveness is 50% of PvE.

    > > > * Confounding Suggestions: This trait no longer converts dazes into stuns. It now increases daze duration by 50% and stun duration by 25%. It is no longer split between game modes.

    > > > * Well of Recall: Reduced the recharge time from 35 seconds to 30 seconds. Reduced the alacrity duration from 5 seconds to 4 seconds.

    > > > * Temporal Enchanter: This trait has been removed from the game.

    > > > * Blurred Inscriptions: This trait has been moved to the Inspiration specialization at the Grandmaster tier to replace Temporal Enchanter. Its functionality has been updated. It now grants distortion when using signets and gives all signets improved functionality when active:

    > > > * Signet of the Ether: Grants increased healing.

    > > > * Signet of Domination: Strips 5 boons.

    > > > * Signet of Illusions: Summons 1 clone.

    > > > * Signet of Inspiration: Hits 10 targets instead of 5 targets.

    > > > * Signet of Midnight: Cures 5 conditions from the player.

    > > > * Signet of Humility: Applies 10 stacks of vulnerability.

    > > > * Egotism: This is a new Master tier Domination trait that replaces the slot left open by Blurred Inscriptions. It increases outgoing damage by 10% against foes with lower health than the mesmer. This trait is now split between modes and increases damage by 5% in PvP and WvW.

    > > > * Elusive Mind: The exhaustion duration of this trait is now split between game modes and has a 6-second duration in PvP and WvW.

    > > >

    > > > Game Update Notes: August 28, 2018

    > > > * Illusionary Counter: This skill now summons two clones instead of one if the mesmer successfully blocks a strike.

    > > > * Counterspell: In addition to its previous effects, mesmers will summon a clone to attack the first enemy struck by this skill.

    > > > * Confusing Images: The animation length of this skill has been increased from 2 seconds to 2.25 seconds. The damage has been increased by 25% per strike, and the number of strikes has been increased from 6 to 7.

    > > > * Null Field: This skill has received a new underwater effect for greater visibility.

    > > > * Chaotic Transference: Reduced the condition damage based on the mesmer's toughness from 10% to 7%. This trait now also grants 13% of the mesmer's concentration as expertise.

    > > > * Critical Infusion: The vigor duration of this trait has been reduced from 5 seconds to 3 seconds in PvP and WvW.

    > > > * Nomad's Endurance: The vigor duration of this trait has been reduced from 3 seconds to 1.5 seconds in PvP and WvW.

    > > >

    > > > Game Update Notes: July 10, 2018

    > > > * Blurred Frenzy: The animation time of this skill has been reduced from approximately 1.75 seconds to 1 second while retaining all previous attacks. Damage of this skill has been reduced by 17% in PvP and WvW, with PvE being reduced by 36%. The baseline recharge time has been reduced from 12 seconds to 10 seconds.

    > > > * The Prestige: Burning duration has been modified from 3 stacks for 3 seconds to 1 stack for 9 seconds.

    > > > * Phantasmal Mage: The burning duration of the initial attack has been modified from 2 stacks for 3 seconds to 1 stack for 6 seconds. The attack's burning has been modified from 3 stacks for 3 seconds to 1 stack for 9 seconds.

    > > > * Maim the Disillusioned: Torment duration has been split between game modes and will now deliver 4 seconds of torment in PvP and WvW while continuing to deal 6 seconds of torment in PvE.

    > > > * Imaginary Axes: Inflicted torment duration has been reduced from 5 seconds to 4 seconds.

    > > > * Axes of Symmetry: Inflicted confusion duration has been reduced from 8 seconds to 6 seconds in PvE.

    > > > * Jaunt: The ammunition recharge time of this skill has now been split and will use a 30-second cooldown in PvP and WvW while maintaining a 20-second cooldown in PvE.

    > > > * Signet of Inspiration: Reduced the duration of aegis shared by this skill from 10 seconds to 2 seconds.

    > > > * Illusionary Inspiration: Reduced the duration of aegis shared by this trait from 10 seconds to 2 seconds.

    > > > * Inspiring Distortion: Reduced the duration of aegis shared by this trait from 5 seconds to 2 seconds.

    > > > * Nomad's Endurance: Fixed a bug that could cause the bonus condition damage from this trait to be applied to characters other than the mesmer.

    > > > * Chaotic Persistence: The boon and condition duration bonus has been decreased from 3% to 2% per boon on the mesmer.

    > > >

    > > > Game Update Notes: May 22, 2018

    > > > * Bountiful Disillusionment: The stability duration for this trait has been reduced from 3 seconds to 1 second in PvP and WvW.

    > > > * Illusionary Defense: The damage reduction per stack this trait applies is now split between game modes and has been reduced from -5% per stack to -2% in PvP and WvW.

    > > > * Phantasmal Defender: The tooltip for this skill now shows the correct damage the skill inflicts in PvE. Its damage has been reduced by 50% in PvP and WvW.

    > > > * Phantasmal Disenchanter: The damage of this skill has been reduced by 50% in PvP and WvW.

    > > > * Phantasmal Warlock: The damage of this skill has been reduced by 50% in PvP and WvW.

    > > > * Echo of Memory: Reduced the damage inflicted by the illusionary avenger by 50%.

    > > >

    > > > Game Update Notes: May 8, 2018

    > > > * Siren's Call: Increased the projectile speed by 50%.

    > > > * Blinding Tide: This skill now inflicts vulnerability in an area around the player's target in addition to blindness. Its cooldown has been reduced from 12 seconds to 8 seconds.

    > > > * Spinning Revenge: This skill has been reworked and renamed Imminent Voyage. It now grants allies chaos armor if they are within a 600 radius, and it creates a clone at the player's position before they retreat.

    > > > * Illusion of Drowning: The damage inflicted by this skill has been increased by 33% and now affects up to 5 enemies in an area around the player's initial target. Fixed a bug that prevented the anchor effect from disappearing when the target broke out of stun.

    > > > * Feigned Surge: Increased the damage of this skill by 200% and clarified the text in its tooltips. The mesmer now charges at their targeted enemy, striking up to 5 enemies along the way before summoning a clone upon reaching the target.

    > > > * Slipstream: This skill has been reworked. Allies who pass through its area of effect gain 8 seconds of superspeed, and enemies are immobilized for 3 seconds. Its area of effect has been significantly increased.

    > > > * Vortex: Clarified the tooltips for this skill and increased its damage by 33%.

    > > > * Null Field: This skill can now be used underwater, creating its field at the player's location.

    > > > * Imaginary Axes: The torment duration of this skill is no longer split between game modes and will now use the higher 5-second duration in all modes.

    > > > * Axes of Symmetry: This skill has regained its confusion-inflicting function. Confusion remains split between game modes and will inflict 6 stacks for 3 seconds in PvP and WvW, and 3 stacks for 8 seconds in PvE, with each clone inflicting one stack of the condition.

    > > > * Signet of Ether: The cooldown of this skill is no longer split between game modes and will now use the lower 30-second cooldown in all modes.

    > > > * Illusion of Life: The cooldown of this skill is no longer split between game modes and will now use the lower 75-second cooldown in all modes.

    > > > * Continuum Shift: The cooldown of this skill is no longer split between game modes and will now use the higher 105-second cooldown in all modes.

    > > > * Compounding Power: The damage bonus per stack of this effect is no longer split between game modes and will now use the lower 2% damage bonus per stack in all modes.

    > > > * Chronophantasma: Resummoned phantasms now do 50% less damage in PvP and WvW.

    > > >

    > > > Game Update Notes: April 24, 2018

    > > > * Signet of the Ether: This skill now reduces the recharge of phantasm skills by 50% rather than 100% in PvP and WvW.

    > > >

    > > > Game Update Notes: March 27, 2018

    > > > * Seize the Moment: Fixed the tooltip for this trait that incorrectly referenced illusions instead of clones.

    > > > * Signet of Illusions: Fixed a text error for the passive effect that referenced this skill's old behavior.

    > > > * Chaotic Dampening: Fixed a bug in which this trait did not properly reduce the recharge time of trident skills.

    > > > * Distortion: Updated the tooltip description of this effect to better reflect its functionality.

    > > > * Imagined Burden: Fixed a bug that prevented cripple tooltips from appearing on the associated skills.

    > > > * Shatter Storm: Fixed a bug that prevented the reduced recharge from Master of Misdirection from properly interacting with this trait.

    > > > * Tides of Time: Fixed a bug that caused the recharge refund to fail if the chronomancer catches a wave from another chronomancer.

    > > > * Illusionary Riposte: Fixed a bug that prevented Counter Blade from activating under certain circumstances. Increased the cooldown from 12 seconds to 15 seconds in PvP and WvW.

    > > > * Chaos Vortex: Fixed a bug that caused the projectile fired by this skill to have inconsistent interactions with reflection skills.

    > > > * Phantasmal Swordsman: Fixed a bug that prevented this skill from summoning a phantasm if the mesmer jumped while casting it.

    > > > * Blinding Dissipation: Fixed a bug that caused the confusion skill fact from Ineptitude to display incorrectly on this trait.

    > > > * Illusion of Life: Reduced the cooldown from 120 seconds to 75 seconds in PvP and WvW.

    > > > * Phantasmal Disenchanter: Increased the cooldown from 20 seconds to 30 seconds in PvP and WvW.

    > > > * Jaunt: Reduced damage by 50% in PvP and WvW.

    > > > * Illusionary Swordsman: Increased the cooldown from 15 seconds to 20 seconds in PvP and WvW. Decreased might from 8 stacks to 4 stacks in PvP and WvW.

    > > > * Mirror Blade: Reduced damage by 14% in PvP and WvW.

    > > > * Signet of the Ether: Reduced the cooldown from 35 seconds to 30 seconds in PvP and WvW.

    > > > * Illusionary Counter: Reduced the cooldown from 8 seconds to 6 seconds in PvP and WvW.

    > > > * Elusive Mind: This trait now applies 3 seconds of exhaustion when breaking a stun.

    > > > * Compounding Power: Reduced the outgoing damage per stack from 3% to 2% in PvP and WvW.

    > > > * Phantasmal Force: Reduced the might granted from 3 stacks to 2 stacks in PvP and WvW.

    > > > * Mirror of Anguish: Increased cooldown from 60 seconds to 90 seconds in PvP only.

    > > > * Mental Anguish: Reduced bonus damage from 15% to 10% in PvP and from 30% to 20% in WvW.

    > > > * Confounding Suggestions: Increased cooldown from 5 seconds to 15 seconds in PvP and WvW.

    > > > * Bountiful Disillusionment: Reduced stability duration from 5 seconds to 3 seconds in PvP and WvW. Decreased might from 5 stacks to 3 stacks in PvP and WvW.

    > > >

    > >

    > > Yep, that tells how extremely oppressive they have been and still are in all game modes, even after receiving minor adjustments.

    >

    > "Minor adjustments"

    >

    > Portal Smiter's Booned, Illusionary Defense dropped by 66%, Elusive Mind has 6 seconds of exhaustion, Confounding Suggestions no longer stuns, Jaunt repeatedly nerfed in every aspect, Bountiful Disillusionment, Critical Infusion and Nomad's Endurance, Torch 4+5 heavily nerfed in damage.

    >

    > That ain't no "minor adjustments."

     

    Mate they're still op as all hell. What are you talking about? Why are you trying to defend mirage? It's broken, i don't care how many nerfs it's had in the past. Mesmer mains trying to defend it have such weak arguments. The class is extremely bad for pvp and will turn away all the wow players coming over at the moment. 90% of people agree they need huge nerfs. The rest are mesmer mains. End of.

  4. > @"everyman.4375" said:

    > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

    > > The only reason mirage didn't get a "proper nerf" is the amount of clueless people wanting to get mirage nerf on the wrong things.

    > > Mirage mains said over and over again what needs to change but ANet chooses to cater to clueless qq'ers instead hence the result you see, wrong nerfs everywhere.

    > > So yeah, you're actually part of the problem, not the solution.

    >

    > Only good comment in every "nerf mirage" threads.

    >

    > Wow i saw that video of jawgeous someone posted, as much as i like the guy, that's the dumbest rant ever. All he's doing is basicaly "LOOK AT THIS IT DOES DAMAGE".

     

    He's 100% right. Look at the YouTube comments. It's 99% in agreement with him. It's literally only mesmer mains that defend this.

  5. > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

    > The only reason mirage didn't get a "proper nerf" is the amount of clueless people wanting to get mirage nerf on the wrong things.

    > Mirage mains said over and over again what needs to change but ANet chooses to cater to clueless qq'ers instead hence the result you see, wrong nerfs everywhere.

    > So yeah, you're actually part of the problem, not the solution.

     

    So you think mirage mechanics and damage is balanced right now?

  6. > @"Solori.6025" said:

    > > @"UfoCoffee.2084" said:

    > > > @"Solori.6025" said:

    > > > > @"Zero.3871" said:

    > > > > > @"Solori.6025" said:

    > > > > > > @"UfoCoffee.2084" said:

    > > > > >

    > > > > > > I wouldn't mind their condi application if you could fight back, but it's nearly impossible to hit or catch them. If they want to run they just sword ambush or blink away or stealth etc You're seeeing more and more boonbeasts as they are the only class who has a chance versus them 1v1 if they're capping a node. Also even when i dodge their initial burst i still get some condis through my evade?

    > > > > > >

    > > > > > > D/P DD thief was nerfed to the ground as they had so many ways to escape and mobility so Anet said they shouldn't have damage too, yet Mirage is exactly the same and still has crazy damage? I don't get it.

    > > > > >

    > > > > > Interesting note.

    > > > > > You complain about condi mes. Yet think the defenses. Which power mes also has, is the issue?

    > > > > > Why don't we see complaints about power mes? Because you have a chance to actively fight them.

    > > > > > So logically. If condi mes is the problem, then you need to tone down condi application. The reason why condi is still a problem. Is because of people like you.

    > > > > > Asking for changes around the core problem. Like the time people cried about torch. Instead of asking for things like duration reduction on condition applications of clones using IH. Or stack and duration reductions from shatters. Lowering the condi output of scepter and axe.

    > > > > > You know, things that are actually meaningful instead of the things you're complaining about.

    > > > > > If you aren't going to attempt to root out the issue then you could have added your post to the other cry thread. Since it didn't even have an impactful suggestion to the build that's broken

    > > > > >

    > > > >

    > > > > nah, People are constantly complaining About Mirage defense (power and condi) because it allows you to be immune to everything while one shotting your enemy. even after the Opponent lands his cc on you you just press dodge and can instant one shot him. there is no counterplay, Nothing can punish a Mirage (power or condi) for playing a bad move.

    > > > >

    > > > That's objectively false. Power has plenty of counters, most meta. Just because you on your necro build can't deal with them doesn't mean all of a sudden every one else can't.

    > > > I would recommend trying the other classes that don't need a babysitter to be effective.

    > > > > and when you Play wvw you also see a lot of power mirages since you can use way more effects to massively increase your Endurance gain for more dodges and ez disengage if your Opponent dodges properly.

    > > > This isn't WvW. Nor is this the subsection for it..endurance gain like the ones available for WvW don't exist or have been nerfed. Take that complaint to the other relevant section as it's totally irrelevant here

    > > >

    > >

    > > Pure and simple mesmer have way too much defense to have that much damage potential. Just like another roamer, d/p thief, they should have their damage neutered. I don't see how this would be a problem. They often have highest damage in a game. Other classes that output that kind of damage like scourge or reaper need a firebrand to babysit them or they're dead. Why should a mesmer be a one man wrecking ball with crazy survivability and damage?

    > >

    > > I'm guessing you're a mesmer main and so want to keep your godmode but if you play a class that's harder to play and to get results with you'll feel a lot better after beating someone or winning a game. Playing condi mesmer is just using a crutch.

    >

    > I don't play condi mesmer. In fact I have been ,since Last year, wanting nerfs in the right direction instead of people like you steering the bat far left when it needs to go straight.

    > The fact you're still bringing up condi mes as your core complaint tells me you have no idea what the class does and instead want what you feel is the issue to be resolved for you. I'm simply telling you you're wrong. I want what the actual issue is to be touched on first.

    > If you do nothing about the condi application you will get the same result no matter what gets nerfed. The entire year of nerfs in the wrong direction is testimony to that. You want proper nerfs or not? Cause we can repeat the entire year of 2018 and not actually fix the issue if that's what you're aiming for....

     

    So you're telling me i'm wrong because you believe your opinions are fact? Good for you. So you're saying the majority of the community is wrong about mesmer? There's been tons of posts and polls, youtubers, streamers all saying mirage is brokenly OP. There's streamers who are way better players than you who are saying this yet you are ignoring all of this and think so much of yourself that you think your opinion is correct still. Pardon me if i don't take you seriously....

     

    I'm mentioning condi mesmer as it's a huge problem and it's damage is stupid considering it's survivability but mirage both power and condi are ridiculous. Condi is just worse right now.

  7. > @"Solori.6025" said:

    > > @"Zero.3871" said:

    > > > @"Solori.6025" said:

    > > > > @"UfoCoffee.2084" said:

    > > >

    > > > > I wouldn't mind their condi application if you could fight back, but it's nearly impossible to hit or catch them. If they want to run they just sword ambush or blink away or stealth etc You're seeeing more and more boonbeasts as they are the only class who has a chance versus them 1v1 if they're capping a node. Also even when i dodge their initial burst i still get some condis through my evade?

    > > > >

    > > > > D/P DD thief was nerfed to the ground as they had so many ways to escape and mobility so Anet said they shouldn't have damage too, yet Mirage is exactly the same and still has crazy damage? I don't get it.

    > > >

    > > > Interesting note.

    > > > You complain about condi mes. Yet think the defenses. Which power mes also has, is the issue?

    > > > Why don't we see complaints about power mes? Because you have a chance to actively fight them.

    > > > So logically. If condi mes is the problem, then you need to tone down condi application. The reason why condi is still a problem. Is because of people like you.

    > > > Asking for changes around the core problem. Like the time people cried about torch. Instead of asking for things like duration reduction on condition applications of clones using IH. Or stack and duration reductions from shatters. Lowering the condi output of scepter and axe.

    > > > You know, things that are actually meaningful instead of the things you're complaining about.

    > > > If you aren't going to attempt to root out the issue then you could have added your post to the other cry thread. Since it didn't even have an impactful suggestion to the build that's broken

    > > >

    > >

    > > nah, People are constantly complaining About Mirage defense (power and condi) because it allows you to be immune to everything while one shotting your enemy. even after the Opponent lands his cc on you you just press dodge and can instant one shot him. there is no counterplay, Nothing can punish a Mirage (power or condi) for playing a bad move.

    > >

    > That's objectively false. Power has plenty of counters, most meta. Just because you on your necro build can't deal with them doesn't mean all of a sudden every one else can't.

    > I would recommend trying the other classes that don't need a babysitter to be effective.

    > > and when you Play wvw you also see a lot of power mirages since you can use way more effects to massively increase your Endurance gain for more dodges and ez disengage if your Opponent dodges properly.

    > This isn't WvW. Nor is this the subsection for it..endurance gain like the ones available for WvW don't exist or have been nerfed. Take that complaint to the other relevant section as it's totally irrelevant here

    >

     

    Pure and simple mesmer have way too much defense to have that much damage potential. Just like another roamer, d/p thief, they should have their damage neutered. I don't see how this would be a problem. They often have highest damage in a game. Other classes that output that kind of damage like scourge or reaper need a firebrand to babysit them or they're dead. Why should a mesmer be a one man wrecking ball with crazy survivability and damage?

     

    I'm guessing you're a mesmer main and so want to keep your godmode but if you play a class that's harder to play and to get results with you'll feel a lot better after beating someone or winning a game. Playing condi mesmer is just using a crutch.

  8. > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

    > You can say Mirages are still OP, but you can't say that haven't gotten their fair share of nerfing **literally every single patch** across all aspects of the specialization since the phantasm rework. The only exception was scepter getting buffed and the underwater rework. Do they deserve more right now? Yeah. And more are certainly coming just like they've come every patch.

    >

    > Game Update Notes: December 11, 2018

    > * Axes of Symmetry: The physical damage of this skill has been split between game modes and reduced by about 30% in PvP only.

    > * Lingering Thoughts: The ammunition-recharge time of this skill has been split between game modes and has been increased from 8 seconds to 10 seconds in PvP only.

    > * Tides of Time: Fixed a bug in which this skill could strike foes multiple times per wave.

    > * Chaos Vortex: The might granted by this skill has been changed from 3 stacks for 8 seconds to 2 stacks for 15 seconds.

    > * Jaunt: The number of charges this skill can hold has been split between game modes and reduced from 3 charges to 2 charges in PvP and WvW.

    > * Signet of Humility: The defiance-bar damage performed by this skill has been reduced from 10 seconds to 6 seconds to match the duration of the skill's transformation.

    > * Signet of Inspiration: The active effect of this signet no longer shares the mesmer's boons with allies. Instead, it now extends the duration of all allies' current boons by 5 seconds.

    > * Signet of Midnight: This signet's passive effect now grants 180 expertise at level 80 instead of a flat condition duration in order to be consistent with other signet effects.

    > * Mimic: This skill's recharge time has been reduced from 75 seconds to 40 seconds and is now increased by the recharge time of the utility skill that it affects. The recharge time of this skill cannot be reset by other mesmer skills.

    > * Portal Entre: The duration of time the mesmer has to place Portal Exeunt has been split between games modes. The duration has been reduced from 60 seconds to 30 seconds in PvP and WvW, but remains unchanged in PvE.

    > * Well of Action: The duration of quickness that the final pulse of this skill applies has been increased from 4 seconds to 5 seconds.

    > * Well of Recall: The duration of alacrity that the final pulse of this skill applies has been increased from 4 seconds to 5 seconds. Its casting time has been reduced from 1 second to 0.75 seconds.

    > * Continuum Split: Fixed a bug in which the rift object that is created by this skill could fail to be destroyed when the the "resign" command (/resign, /gg, /surrender, /forfeit/, /qq, /ff) was used.

    > * Bountiful Disillusionment: This trait now only applies boons to the mesmer.

    > * Danger Time: This trait's effect now applies to illusions.

    > * Lost Time: This trait now delivers its slowing strike when the mesmer disables their target instead of after the mesmer has built charges. Its base strike damage has been reduced by 50%, but its critical-hit damage has been increased by 100%.

    > * Mirror of Anguish: This trait has been renamed Auspicious Anguish. It now causes the skill Distortion to instantly recharge when the mesmer is affected by a control effect. It also causes the distortion effect to grant a random boon when it ends. The cooldown of this trait is 50 seconds.

    > * Power Block: The damage of this skill has been increased by 20% so that it now matches its tooltip. This trait can no longer critically hit foes.

    >

    > Game Update Notes: October 2, 2018

    > * Fixed a bug in which certain skills that break enemy targeting would stop the mesmer's autoattack.

    > * Continuum Shift: Fixed an API profession classification on this skill.

    > * Signet of Inspiration: Normalized the duration of boons applied by this skill to 3 seconds. Might and swiftness are exceptions to this rule and remain at durations of 20 seconds and 5 seconds respectively.

    > * Illusionary Inspiration: This trait now causes mesmers to heal all nearby allies whenever they summon an illusion. Competitive-mode healing effectiveness is 50% of PvE.

    > * Confounding Suggestions: This trait no longer converts dazes into stuns. It now increases daze duration by 50% and stun duration by 25%. It is no longer split between game modes.

    > * Well of Recall: Reduced the recharge time from 35 seconds to 30 seconds. Reduced the alacrity duration from 5 seconds to 4 seconds.

    > * Temporal Enchanter: This trait has been removed from the game.

    > * Blurred Inscriptions: This trait has been moved to the Inspiration specialization at the Grandmaster tier to replace Temporal Enchanter. Its functionality has been updated. It now grants distortion when using signets and gives all signets improved functionality when active:

    > * Signet of the Ether: Grants increased healing.

    > * Signet of Domination: Strips 5 boons.

    > * Signet of Illusions: Summons 1 clone.

    > * Signet of Inspiration: Hits 10 targets instead of 5 targets.

    > * Signet of Midnight: Cures 5 conditions from the player.

    > * Signet of Humility: Applies 10 stacks of vulnerability.

    > * Egotism: This is a new Master tier Domination trait that replaces the slot left open by Blurred Inscriptions. It increases outgoing damage by 10% against foes with lower health than the mesmer. This trait is now split between modes and increases damage by 5% in PvP and WvW.

    > * Elusive Mind: The exhaustion duration of this trait is now split between game modes and has a 6-second duration in PvP and WvW.

    >

    > Game Update Notes: August 28, 2018

    > * Illusionary Counter: This skill now summons two clones instead of one if the mesmer successfully blocks a strike.

    > * Counterspell: In addition to its previous effects, mesmers will summon a clone to attack the first enemy struck by this skill.

    > * Confusing Images: The animation length of this skill has been increased from 2 seconds to 2.25 seconds. The damage has been increased by 25% per strike, and the number of strikes has been increased from 6 to 7.

    > * Null Field: This skill has received a new underwater effect for greater visibility.

    > * Chaotic Transference: Reduced the condition damage based on the mesmer's toughness from 10% to 7%. This trait now also grants 13% of the mesmer's concentration as expertise.

    > * Critical Infusion: The vigor duration of this trait has been reduced from 5 seconds to 3 seconds in PvP and WvW.

    > * Nomad's Endurance: The vigor duration of this trait has been reduced from 3 seconds to 1.5 seconds in PvP and WvW.

    >

    > Game Update Notes: July 10, 2018

    > * Blurred Frenzy: The animation time of this skill has been reduced from approximately 1.75 seconds to 1 second while retaining all previous attacks. Damage of this skill has been reduced by 17% in PvP and WvW, with PvE being reduced by 36%. The baseline recharge time has been reduced from 12 seconds to 10 seconds.

    > * The Prestige: Burning duration has been modified from 3 stacks for 3 seconds to 1 stack for 9 seconds.

    > * Phantasmal Mage: The burning duration of the initial attack has been modified from 2 stacks for 3 seconds to 1 stack for 6 seconds. The attack's burning has been modified from 3 stacks for 3 seconds to 1 stack for 9 seconds.

    > * Maim the Disillusioned: Torment duration has been split between game modes and will now deliver 4 seconds of torment in PvP and WvW while continuing to deal 6 seconds of torment in PvE.

    > * Imaginary Axes: Inflicted torment duration has been reduced from 5 seconds to 4 seconds.

    > * Axes of Symmetry: Inflicted confusion duration has been reduced from 8 seconds to 6 seconds in PvE.

    > * Jaunt: The ammunition recharge time of this skill has now been split and will use a 30-second cooldown in PvP and WvW while maintaining a 20-second cooldown in PvE.

    > * Signet of Inspiration: Reduced the duration of aegis shared by this skill from 10 seconds to 2 seconds.

    > * Illusionary Inspiration: Reduced the duration of aegis shared by this trait from 10 seconds to 2 seconds.

    > * Inspiring Distortion: Reduced the duration of aegis shared by this trait from 5 seconds to 2 seconds.

    > * Nomad's Endurance: Fixed a bug that could cause the bonus condition damage from this trait to be applied to characters other than the mesmer.

    > * Chaotic Persistence: The boon and condition duration bonus has been decreased from 3% to 2% per boon on the mesmer.

    >

    > Game Update Notes: May 22, 2018

    > * Bountiful Disillusionment: The stability duration for this trait has been reduced from 3 seconds to 1 second in PvP and WvW.

    > * Illusionary Defense: The damage reduction per stack this trait applies is now split between game modes and has been reduced from -5% per stack to -2% in PvP and WvW.

    > * Phantasmal Defender: The tooltip for this skill now shows the correct damage the skill inflicts in PvE. Its damage has been reduced by 50% in PvP and WvW.

    > * Phantasmal Disenchanter: The damage of this skill has been reduced by 50% in PvP and WvW.

    > * Phantasmal Warlock: The damage of this skill has been reduced by 50% in PvP and WvW.

    > * Echo of Memory: Reduced the damage inflicted by the illusionary avenger by 50%.

    >

    > Game Update Notes: May 8, 2018

    > * Siren's Call: Increased the projectile speed by 50%.

    > * Blinding Tide: This skill now inflicts vulnerability in an area around the player's target in addition to blindness. Its cooldown has been reduced from 12 seconds to 8 seconds.

    > * Spinning Revenge: This skill has been reworked and renamed Imminent Voyage. It now grants allies chaos armor if they are within a 600 radius, and it creates a clone at the player's position before they retreat.

    > * Illusion of Drowning: The damage inflicted by this skill has been increased by 33% and now affects up to 5 enemies in an area around the player's initial target. Fixed a bug that prevented the anchor effect from disappearing when the target broke out of stun.

    > * Feigned Surge: Increased the damage of this skill by 200% and clarified the text in its tooltips. The mesmer now charges at their targeted enemy, striking up to 5 enemies along the way before summoning a clone upon reaching the target.

    > * Slipstream: This skill has been reworked. Allies who pass through its area of effect gain 8 seconds of superspeed, and enemies are immobilized for 3 seconds. Its area of effect has been significantly increased.

    > * Vortex: Clarified the tooltips for this skill and increased its damage by 33%.

    > * Null Field: This skill can now be used underwater, creating its field at the player's location.

    > * Imaginary Axes: The torment duration of this skill is no longer split between game modes and will now use the higher 5-second duration in all modes.

    > * Axes of Symmetry: This skill has regained its confusion-inflicting function. Confusion remains split between game modes and will inflict 6 stacks for 3 seconds in PvP and WvW, and 3 stacks for 8 seconds in PvE, with each clone inflicting one stack of the condition.

    > * Signet of Ether: The cooldown of this skill is no longer split between game modes and will now use the lower 30-second cooldown in all modes.

    > * Illusion of Life: The cooldown of this skill is no longer split between game modes and will now use the lower 75-second cooldown in all modes.

    > * Continuum Shift: The cooldown of this skill is no longer split between game modes and will now use the higher 105-second cooldown in all modes.

    > * Compounding Power: The damage bonus per stack of this effect is no longer split between game modes and will now use the lower 2% damage bonus per stack in all modes.

    > * Chronophantasma: Resummoned phantasms now do 50% less damage in PvP and WvW.

    >

    > Game Update Notes: April 24, 2018

    > * Signet of the Ether: This skill now reduces the recharge of phantasm skills by 50% rather than 100% in PvP and WvW.

    >

    > Game Update Notes: March 27, 2018

    > * Seize the Moment: Fixed the tooltip for this trait that incorrectly referenced illusions instead of clones.

    > * Signet of Illusions: Fixed a text error for the passive effect that referenced this skill's old behavior.

    > * Chaotic Dampening: Fixed a bug in which this trait did not properly reduce the recharge time of trident skills.

    > * Distortion: Updated the tooltip description of this effect to better reflect its functionality.

    > * Imagined Burden: Fixed a bug that prevented cripple tooltips from appearing on the associated skills.

    > * Shatter Storm: Fixed a bug that prevented the reduced recharge from Master of Misdirection from properly interacting with this trait.

    > * Tides of Time: Fixed a bug that caused the recharge refund to fail if the chronomancer catches a wave from another chronomancer.

    > * Illusionary Riposte: Fixed a bug that prevented Counter Blade from activating under certain circumstances. Increased the cooldown from 12 seconds to 15 seconds in PvP and WvW.

    > * Chaos Vortex: Fixed a bug that caused the projectile fired by this skill to have inconsistent interactions with reflection skills.

    > * Phantasmal Swordsman: Fixed a bug that prevented this skill from summoning a phantasm if the mesmer jumped while casting it.

    > * Blinding Dissipation: Fixed a bug that caused the confusion skill fact from Ineptitude to display incorrectly on this trait.

    > * Illusion of Life: Reduced the cooldown from 120 seconds to 75 seconds in PvP and WvW.

    > * Phantasmal Disenchanter: Increased the cooldown from 20 seconds to 30 seconds in PvP and WvW.

    > * Jaunt: Reduced damage by 50% in PvP and WvW.

    > * Illusionary Swordsman: Increased the cooldown from 15 seconds to 20 seconds in PvP and WvW. Decreased might from 8 stacks to 4 stacks in PvP and WvW.

    > * Mirror Blade: Reduced damage by 14% in PvP and WvW.

    > * Signet of the Ether: Reduced the cooldown from 35 seconds to 30 seconds in PvP and WvW.

    > * Illusionary Counter: Reduced the cooldown from 8 seconds to 6 seconds in PvP and WvW.

    > * Elusive Mind: This trait now applies 3 seconds of exhaustion when breaking a stun.

    > * Compounding Power: Reduced the outgoing damage per stack from 3% to 2% in PvP and WvW.

    > * Phantasmal Force: Reduced the might granted from 3 stacks to 2 stacks in PvP and WvW.

    > * Mirror of Anguish: Increased cooldown from 60 seconds to 90 seconds in PvP only.

    > * Mental Anguish: Reduced bonus damage from 15% to 10% in PvP and from 30% to 20% in WvW.

    > * Confounding Suggestions: Increased cooldown from 5 seconds to 15 seconds in PvP and WvW.

    > * Bountiful Disillusionment: Reduced stability duration from 5 seconds to 3 seconds in PvP and WvW. Decreased might from 5 stacks to 3 stacks in PvP and WvW.

    >

     

    I'm aware of this. I said **proper** nerf. Whilst they have been nerfed, so have other classes. Mirage is still stupidly OP after these nerfs. I want a proper nerf to bring them to the same level as everyone else. As i said before unless you're high plat or leg then i'm not going to listen to you if you say they're fine as all good players agree they are.

  9. It's back to when scourges were op. They are ruining PvP. I needed a mist core fragment last night and so grinded out some sPvP which i don't normally do off season and there were 80% of the time 4 mirage in each game. Needless to say it was about as much fun as having my toenails pulled out with pliers.

     

    Something needs to be done in next patch otherwise pvp population will drop again. Guildies have stopped playing pvp until they are fixed.

     

    Mirage mains will try saying L2P as ofc lazy people will always pick godmode class to climb easily but people like Shorts who is one of the best mesmers out there are always saying how OP and brainless condi mesmer is and yet we have average mesmer mains on here trying to say they are ok.

     

    I wouldn't mind their condi application if you could fight back, but it's nearly impossible to hit or catch them. If they want to run they just sword ambush or blink away or stealth etc You're seeeing more and more boonbeasts as they are the only class who has a chance versus them 1v1 if they're capping a node. Also even when i dodge their initial burst i still get some condis through my evade?

     

    D/P DD thief was nerfed to the ground as they had so many ways to escape and mobility so Anet said they shouldn't have damage too, yet Mirage is exactly the same and still has crazy damage? I don't get it.

  10. > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

    > > @"UfoCoffee.2084" said:

    > > > @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:

    > > > It sounds like what you want is a full skill rating reset. This wouldn't accomplish what you want, and actually I think would have the complete opposite effect. Matches at the start of the season would be complete chaos. You could have completely new ranked players in with people who were legendary previous season.

    > > >

    > > > We've talked about changing the soft mmr reset between seasons to be even softer. We probably don't want to remove reset all together, otherwise we'd see quite lot of accusations of unfairness.

    > >

    > > This makes sense. Although It would be nice to see everyone start in bronze and then you'd see the good players climb and carry out of low rating to prove all the people who say it's impossible are wrong.

    >

    > I'm doing this on stream next season. On a core account.

    > Edit; in solo queue.

     

    Nice what's your channel name? New season is nearly here :#

  11. > @"Kovu.7560" said:

    > I click my utilities. Fear me!

    > (Seriously though, this game has too many kitten buttons to push and keying something like t/g/h just doesn't feel comfortable to me.)

    >

    > ~ Kovu

     

    > @"Kovu.7560" said:

    > I click my utilities. Fear me!

    > (Seriously though, this game has too many kitten buttons to push and keying something like t/g/h just doesn't feel comfortable to me.)

    >

    > ~ Kovu

     

    A razer Naga or something similar helps a lot for these kind of games. I have swap weapon, dodge, special action, some signets, auto walk etc all bound to my mouse. Couldn't play the game without it.

  12. > @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:

    > It sounds like what you want is a full skill rating reset. This wouldn't accomplish what you want, and actually I think would have the complete opposite effect. Matches at the start of the season would be complete chaos. You could have completely new ranked players in with people who were legendary previous season.

    >

    > We've talked about changing the soft mmr reset between seasons to be even softer. We probably don't want to remove reset all together, otherwise we'd see quite lot of accusations of unfairness.

     

    This makes sense. Although It would be nice to see everyone start in bronze and then you'd see the good players climb and carry out of low rating to prove all the people who say it's impossible are wrong.

  13. > @"lodjur.1284" said:

    > > @"UfoCoffee.2084" said:

    > > > @"lodjur.1284" said:

    > > > > @"Ruufio.1496" said:

    > > > > I don't care how it scales in PvE. KIll something in 2 minutes or 1 minute 58 seconds who cares.

    > > > >

    > > > > I shouldn't be able to literally walk towards an enemy ranger, have him activate quickness with rapid fire while I activate magnetic aura while still literally just walking towards him and have him be so bad at the game that he eats his entire cast INCLUDING his point blank shot yet he takes only 6k damage total. If someone is THAT bad then they should be punished for it. (That goes for many other things as well but let's just leave kitten at reflection)

    > > >

    > > > Nah it's okay that if you miss your reflect you take 19k from rapid fire, but if they literally just keep spamming into reflect nothing happens. Risk-reward only applies when talking about stats. The ranged power burst classes are considered high-risk already because they run berserker, no amount of invulns/evades/movement skills/range can ever make that no high-risk /sarcasm

    > >

    > > So you don't dodge at the right time or try using LOS and also miss your reflect and invuln cd? Sounds like you need to get better at your class. Also 19k? You in full berserker?

    > >

    > > There's so much projectile hate out there that the only class a longbow ranger or deadeye can reliably kill from range is a scourge nowadays.

    >

    > First off if your class is Ele, War, Necro, Guard or condi Rev (and to a lesser degree holosmith and power rev) there's actually very little counterplay available. You have your 2-4 dodges and 1-2 invulns and bad - medium mobility. These classes can't beat a soulbeast played by even a mediocre player.

    >

    > Rapid fire takes 2 dodges (when used without quickness) and has 10 sec cd and 1.5k-2.5k range (depending on terrain). Not to mention each auto attack does so much damage you need to Dodge them. 19k is on the higher end of what you can get hit for in TB armor lol, 12-15k (with sic' em ofc) is the norm (in full toughness gear), not really much better...

    >

    > Even more or less unbuffed auto attacks do 3k+ against targets in full toughness armor with protection. Dodging each one is hardly feasible, not all classes have that many invulns (espec since blocks do nothing). LoS is not always available.

    >

    > If you play any of the 4-6 classes with less mobility than ranger you will never kill one that has any semblance of skill (thankfully most don't).

    >

    > Projectile hate is useless when there is so much unblockable. Soulbeast has access to 1-3 on demand unblockables depending on the build.

    >

    > Currently the only class that can really fight soulbeast without being disadvantaged is mirage (even thief has an unfavorable mu AFAIK due to SB having many skills that are very powerful in that mu)

    >

     

    In an open area like WvW I agree it's a pain to be hit from so far away but you need to use your surroundings more and not be caught in the open.

     

    The op unkillable build that everyone complains about doesn't even use longbow. If you mean sic em ranger. They are squishy as hell and can be killed pretty easy. Also a lot of bad played seem to be drawn to this build and class in WvW so they are just loot bags 99% of the time.

     

    Also beast mode is on a 10sec cd so you can say they can use it every ten seconds but this never happens as they are obviously using their merged skills and switching pets etc. So depending on the fight they could use it then use some merged skills then unmerge so maybe 20 seconds?

     

    No ranger takes signet of the hunt? It's passive gives you +25% move speed which is completely wasted. Not sure what other unblockable you mean that soulbeast could use?

     

    Btw I'm a thief main and have been one shot by a SB showing up out of nowhere and point blank shotting me and then rapid fire when my shadow step was down so I feel your pain. I just think there's too much projectile hate out there now.

     

    You can't hit a mesmer from range now as they have almost permanent relfect. You could kill yourself from retal aoeing into a zerg.

  14. > @"Conqueror.3682" said:

    > So, i decided to inmerse myself in some spvp, havent played even 20 games in my revenant and im already gold, I mean, i dont even know how the other professions work, but the matchmaking put me in gold.

    >

    > And i feel that i should be bronze, because what do i face, last 10 losses i was smashed by platinum players because i dont even know why im matched with them. And dont have enough experience to beat them yet.

    >

    > Then got downranked to silver, i keep losing, but matchmaker put me in gold at the start, im so confused right now, why the game puts me with the veterans? i mean, i have faced players with that title like Champion magus, champion hunter, they have won even more games than i have played in my whole life.

    >

    > Is that there is not enough people in this mode that platinum players have to match with unexperienced players like me?

    >

    > And what kind of people do i match in unranked? i start to imagine my next oponent will be god of pvp or another legendary title....

     

    You probably just got lucky and got carried in your qualifier games. Now the games putting you back where you should be.

  15. Mirage has made this season unplayable. It's my second most played profession and I've climbed high with it in previous seasons but it's cheap as fuck.

     

    Every game last night had 2 mirage on each team. It's getting ridiculous.

     

    You try defending a point with 2 X mirage spawning a millions clones, trying to find the real one when they're not stealthed amongst all the pink shit everywhere. When you finally find one of the real ones you're already condied up and then they evade or invuln over and over and then re-stealth and jaunt or blink out to recover and do it all over again.

     

    They need a huge rework before next season.

  16. Less people are on then so they'll match you with lower tier players and expect you to carry; which is nearly impossible.

     

    Then you lose 16 points a game when you lose. Just play at earlier times when more people are on. I gave up on this season ages ago. 2 mirage on each team every game? No thanks.

  17. > @"lodjur.1284" said:

    > > @"Ruufio.1496" said:

    > > I don't care how it scales in PvE. KIll something in 2 minutes or 1 minute 58 seconds who cares.

    > >

    > > I shouldn't be able to literally walk towards an enemy ranger, have him activate quickness with rapid fire while I activate magnetic aura while still literally just walking towards him and have him be so bad at the game that he eats his entire cast INCLUDING his point blank shot yet he takes only 6k damage total. If someone is THAT bad then they should be punished for it. (That goes for many other things as well but let's just leave kitten at reflection)

    >

    > Nah it's okay that if you miss your reflect you take 19k from rapid fire, but if they literally just keep spamming into reflect nothing happens. Risk-reward only applies when talking about stats. The ranged power burst classes are considered high-risk already because they run berserker, no amount of invulns/evades/movement skills/range can ever make that no high-risk /sarcasm

     

    So you don't dodge at the right time or try using LOS and also miss your reflect and invuln cd? Sounds like you need to get better at your class. Also 19k? You in full berserker?

     

    There's so much projectile hate out there that the only class a longbow ranger or deadeye can reliably kill from range is a scourge nowadays.

  18. Mesmer is my second most played profession. I know exactly how they work. I played condi for a long time. I don't need to learn anything I admitted they were op when I was playing as it as I'm an honest person.

     

    I was referring to axe damage where they nerfed the power value on it? I mean wtf?

     

    All of you defending mesmer are clearly mesmer mains in denial desperately trying to avoid nerfs who like playing god mode.

     

    I felt guilty playing as mes going far and meeting a warrior and killing him by rolling my face over the keyboard.

     

    All well known good mesmers admit condi mes is simple to play and op as fuck.

     

    Pink shorts hates having to play condi but whenever he sees a tough opponent on the other team he switches over to it because it's op.

  19. It seems every patch recently they nerf condi mes in the most ridiculous way that doesn't affect their damage. 2 ports instead of 3? Who cares?

     

    If you dodge their upfront burst from stealth they can still apply stupid amounts of conditions afterwards.

     

    So you dodge the torch phantom and the shatter. They can create clones immediately after which can put 25 stack of torment on you. You clear this and try to fight back but they can move whilst dodging and apply more condi to you. It's just stupid design.

     

    So good game design is if this class hits you or ports onto you with their blink from stealth and you have stacks of confusion and torment on you you're not meant to cast or move or you'll die? So I'll just unplug my keyboard when they attack. Great counter play......

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