hatsamu.4327

I don't think it's supposed to be an oriental dragon. I think it's "lunar" because it's like a wolf-dragon-thing, like you'd see on DeviantArt. And other places.

The aegis is the more important part of the skill to me, so I'd like something that calls to that more.

 

["Incoming!"](https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/%22Incoming!%22) was a paragon shout that gave a move speed boost and a heal. Which I guess isn't the same as aegis, but I think it still works in the sense of warning your allies so they can defend against attacks.

 

["Shields Up!"](https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/%22Shields_Up!%22) was a shout that boosted armor, so I think that works too. But it was a warrior shout (so was Retreat though) and maybe not as good at representing the swiftness aspect.

 

 

I had an elite spec idea for this as well, though now defunct. But I don't see assassins as antithetical to support since GW1 assassins had a tanking build.

 

I do worry that the more parts of a profession that gets dedicated to support (the F-skills, the weapon, the utilities. . .), the more they'll undertune the rest of the class. So I'd rather the support options be part of trait choices, for more build options.

 

I think the PoF classes made out pretty well in terms of flexibility between dps and support. Just the ability to provide one of the high-value boons, like quickness or alacrity, would be enough. Maybe something like barrier (which is basically a type of heal) could help the thief's own sustain or be shared for group benefit.

> @"VocalThought.9835" said:

> > @"Kodama.6453" said:

> > > @"VocalThought.9835" said:

> > > > @"draxynnic.3719" said:

> > > > I've seen it. I've also seen some very detailed analyses of it.

> > > >

> > > > One large shield is good. Two large shields tend to get in the way of attacking with either, and give you a large blind zone around you that makes it hard to defend yourself. Like I said, a lot of people who haven't trained in fighting with a large shield underestimate how much of a blind spot it can create, especially if you raise it to defend your head. With sword and shield, you can adopt a stance where the sword defends your head until you use it to strike. With two shields, you can't effectively adopt that stance (it relies on using the length of the blade to protect your head when your hand is above and behind your head).

> > > >

> > > > With equal skill, I wouldn't bet on someone with two shields against someone with sword and shield. I don't think I'd even bet on someone with two shields against someone with a sword alone. It might be a long fight, but the sword offers longer reach, greater agility, and a more potentially damaging attack - sooner or later the guy with a sword will find an opening or a blind spot to get a thrust in.

> > > >

> > > > Sure, if you've got one guy who's trained for twenty years with dual shields and another guy who's just picked up a sword for the first time, the guy with two shields could win. But like a lot of exotic weapon combinations, it's one of those situations where the guy who spends the same amount of time training with a conventional set of weapons is still going to be ahead.

> > >

> > > You keep saying "Large Shield" No one is suggesting a "Large Shield". I just said "Shield". Plus the game doesn't even have a shield size option like it does for Bow and Swords, so I don't know what you're referring to. Plus, when ANet give an introduces a new weapon to a profession, they typically create a new weapon skins, so players can always pick a skins they want, small or large, but it'll still just be a Shield.

> >

> > The main problem for me is: why should Anet make a systemic change like allowing offhand weapons in the mainhand if they don't have to?

> >

> > All classes still have enough weapons open for elite specs without them having to use such tricks to artificially increase the pool of weapons they can chose from.

>

> "Systemic Change"? I guess I don't see making a "main hand only" or an "offhand weapon only" dual welded a systemic change. I can understand if you said aquatic weapons, but this is simply having the weapon in another hand like most of their other weapons. The only weapon that would need more care would be a main hand Shield due to positioning and stowing.

>

> The reason for allowing these weapons to be used would be to stick with the theme of the profession. If any profession was to use a Scepter in an off hand or a focus in the main hand, would be a spell caster and if anyone would be able to use a Shield in their main hand would definitely be the Warrior.

>

> The point of thinking of off hand weapons as a main hand option doesn't have to be taboo or against a cardinal rule. It's adding to a creative process without straying too far from what's implemented. I think offhand/main hand only weapons are more of a "happen-stance" than something that ANet was focused on having.

 

Somewhere in the back-end, the game knows to treat them differently. Off-hands have their own category in the bank wardrobe and a double-click or right-click command within the inventory gets handled differently. I'm not sure how UI layout + coding can be happenstance.

 

Plus, wouldn't asymmetrical shields and foci need to receive mirrored models? I'm just skeptical of the return on investment. I don't know how much work a change like this would create, but it's guaranteed at least some. Meanwhile, it's just opinion that the remaining weapons can't fit Warrior, so how many classes really require this change to justify it?

> @"lare.5129" said:

> what the point do prediction that may be, and I hope, instesd uselss new elite sp. we will get some interesting ?

> why, like some magic poison effect, people think that el. spek will come ?

> whrere is no any anonce that and where inclused in EoD. Why ppl sure taht Elite. sp wiil come?

> proof plz

 

[https://clips.twitch.tv/AdventurousFrailHorseradishMau5](https://clips.twitch.tv/AdventurousFrailHorseradishMau5)

 

During the Extra Life Twitch stream, Robert Gee from the skills/balance/systems team stated they are currently working on the elite specs.

> @"Lonami.2987" said:

 

> Eventually, I would love to see wardrobe templates too, where you can store your custom outfits, built using armor pieces and dyes of your own selection.

>

 

Same here. Many games nowadays have embraced separating cosmetics from stats, and as forward-thinking as many of GW2's systems were, we technically still have that restriction but it's just that we can choose which cosmetics to bind our stats with. I would also like to see weapons included in this system as well though, so maybe something like a cosmetic equipment tab.

 

I'd experiment with my characters' looks more if I didn't have to re-transmute/re-dye back and forth, or have to reacquire a set of correct-stat armor + runes + inventory slots/equipment template.

> @"Kodama.6453" said:

> > @"hatsamu.4327" said:

> > I wonder if they came up with Druid by doing a Ranger/Necro-twist. . . since the mechanic is to build up a bar and enter a form with its own skills, except it's about life instead of death.

> >

> > Since we're going to Cantha, I think a spec that homages the Assassin would be fitting since some shared themes already exist between it and the Mesmer like casting hexes, Lyssa's patronage, and Assassin even has a skill that looks like it summons phantasmal blades. It could add more spellcasting flavor to the Thief but more martial compared to Mesmer's mental theme. I'm more interested in phantasms for utilities than the passive gameplay of clones, though.

> >

> > > @"Kodama.6453" said:

> > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > > > > @"Kodama.6453" said:

> > > > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > > > > > **Treasure hunter** -> Thief/mesmer

> > > > > > A thief specialized in creating shadow clones to mislead it's opponents. Would change the thief's dual skills making them clone generating skills (limit 1 clone, 2 when traited or limited in time with a hard cap of clones), torch as a thematical weapon, glamour as utilities.

> > > > >

> > > > > I like the idea of giving thief access to clones. Not sure about the name thematically, tho.

> > > > > "Treasure hunter" doesn't really sound like someone summoning shadow clones for me. Some people suggested something similar with the name "umbramancer".

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Yep, I had to go out so it was kinda rushed. In hindsight, the name isn't fiting and clones should probably be on the utilities, but torch definitely belong to a _treasure hunter_ e-spec! The stolen skill could create a clone of the target, as well (I think something like that is likely to happen at some point).

> > >

> > > This could be an interesting twist of the concept.

> > >

> > > Instead of creating clones of themselves, you could create clones of the enemies which are attacking them. Basically the thief is "stealing" the shadows of the enemies and using them against them.

> > >

> > > Could also give the thief a "minionmancer" playstyle in some way, which the class doesn't have yet. Of all classes, just thief and warrior don't have the zoo playstyle.

> >

> > You consider Guardian and Revenant to have the minion playstyle, but you don't count Thief having Thieves Guild?

>

> Admitted, guardian doesn't have the minion playstyle anymore, so we have to add that to the list.

> They used to have it back when their spirit weapons worked as summoned entities, but this got changed.

>

> Revenant has the summoned spirits from the renegade elite spec, tho.

>

> I don't count thief because it is not really an utility type like all the other specs have, but just one single elite skill.

 

In practice though, they fulfill the same gameplay purpose. Individually, I think they're even more useful than some of the other minion types, and on DE with Payback, can be made more persistent than Renegade summons. I think it's OK to say you like the playstyle so you want more of it, but to say that Thief doesn't already have that playstyle would be incorrect.

I wonder if they came up with Druid by doing a Ranger/Necro-twist. . . since the mechanic is to build up a bar and enter a form with its own skills, except it's about life instead of death.

 

Since we're going to Cantha, I think a spec that homages the Assassin would be fitting since some shared themes already exist between it and the Mesmer like casting hexes, Lyssa's patronage, and Assassin even has a skill that looks like it summons phantasmal blades. It could add more spellcasting flavor to the Thief but more martial compared to Mesmer's mental theme. I'm more interested in phantasms for utilities than the passive gameplay of clones, though.

 

> @"Kodama.6453" said:

> > @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > > @"Kodama.6453" said:

> > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > > > **Treasure hunter** -> Thief/mesmer

> > > > A thief specialized in creating shadow clones to mislead it's opponents. Would change the thief's dual skills making them clone generating skills (limit 1 clone, 2 when traited or limited in time with a hard cap of clones), torch as a thematical weapon, glamour as utilities.

> > >

> > > I like the idea of giving thief access to clones. Not sure about the name thematically, tho.

> > > "Treasure hunter" doesn't really sound like someone summoning shadow clones for me. Some people suggested something similar with the name "umbramancer".

> > >

> >

> > Yep, I had to go out so it was kinda rushed. In hindsight, the name isn't fiting and clones should probably be on the utilities, but torch definitely belong to a _treasure hunter_ e-spec! The stolen skill could create a clone of the target, as well (I think something like that is likely to happen at some point).

>

> This could be an interesting twist of the concept.

>

> Instead of creating clones of themselves, you could create clones of the enemies which are attacking them. Basically the thief is "stealing" the shadows of the enemies and using them against them.

>

> Could also give the thief a "minionmancer" playstyle in some way, which the class doesn't have yet. Of all classes, just thief and warrior don't have the zoo playstyle.

 

You consider Guardian and Revenant to have the minion playstyle, but you don't count Thief having Thieves Guild?

> @"Zacchary.6183" said:

 

> @"AikijinX.6258" said:

 

Thank you both, but this concept hasn't aged too well, lol. If the resource costs were high at the time of my initial posting, it definitely wasn't built to consider we would one day have a skill cost 7 initiative.

 

For range of the F1s, I imagined it would make sense if F1s requiring longer sequences, i.e. costing more time/initiative, had the benefit of greater range (probably not greater than core though, since that's Deadeye's shtick). Something like, Art 4 and 5 = 1200, Art 2 and 3 = 900, and Art 1 = 450-600. (Art 1 was probably the weakest idea, but I imagined it as a more defensive F1 with a shorter-than-regular cooldown.)

 

I considered that at least Art 3 would feel best built as a shadowstep, though as an AOE attack it would probably lose the ambush advantage for say, a dagger set-up. I also thought maybe Art 5 could be one and I ended up adding back regular Steal as a "before-chain-combo" F1, but I think that gets into conflicting thoughts on e-specs and trade-offs.

 

I've seen some thoughts saying if an e-spec has the core mechanic built in, e.g. Tempest, it's more upgrade than sidegrade even if playing it as such discards advantages in minor traits. My concept has an additional trade-off with the resource pool, but maybe it might be best to preserve the instant-shadowstep niche for core Thief (even as Daredevil is already somewhat treading on it). Since this concept suggests adding some natural sturdiness to Thief, its slipperiness/mobility could be a probable sacrifice.

My [Assassin](http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PaxAgiVjZYRGk1pEcct2fdA-zRJYshVCeOA-e) build, in case the next elite spec goes in a different direction. The idea is to rp a gw1 Assassin and pretend that a combo chain of 3 different weapon skills is an efficient use of initiative by fueling damage modifiers and M7/Premeditation.

 

I usually start with dancing dagger, close the distance with heartseeker, into death blossom, then stealth with stolen skill/CnD for a backstab. With fury, it's pretty consistent max malice for M7, unless my positioning with DB is off. I could probably use more precision, but I just grabbed some random hybridy gear and the Grieving set I wasn't using.

 

To emulate hex spells I use cantrips, and for the elite I choose the human racial, Reaper of Grenth. YES. Because he is one of the patron gods for the assassin and for 15 glorious seconds I get to look really cool enveloped in darkness and shadow. And I guess there's some synergy with the DA gm traits, kinda? Mainly the first 2 reasons tho.

 

Just a thematic build for open world, when I'm in the mood to feel that 1-2-3 combo.

I thought that Dragonhunter pulled a lot of Paragon's visuals. There's a burning spear on F1, a big shield on F3, and the angelic wings from chants appears on F2. And there's all of the supportive shouts on Guardian. Might make it hard to justify taking the slot from some other idea.

> @"Taril.8619" said:

 

> An example of an easy to implement combo, would be to move PW's stun over to Headshot. So then to do your PW you'll 4 > 3.

 

 

Strange as it is, I don't think we can expect a damage increase even if the stun is removed. It would basically become Mesmer sword 2, but pistol whip actually has the higher damage coefficient. If I had to guess, maybe because it has the vulnerable window during the stun windup, while Blurred Frenzy can be treated as an on-demand evade.

 

What if they rebalance it around having fewer sword slashes? It would decrease the evade time but also the time spent rooted. It would more reliably land the full damage, so maybe it would take a slight damage decrease, but then the initiative cost could be lowered again.

I'd rather leave the details to their professional artists, but I prefer designs that don't stick out from the silhouette too much, and that look functional over flashy. Not a fan of the Soulbeast gloves for example.

 

Since I theorycrafted an elite for thief with off-hand sword and Assassin flavor, I think it would be cool if the exotic weapon unlocked a skin that was dagger/short-sword-length, and the ascended unlocked a sword-length skin. That way, you could have the dual sword flavor, or a sword + main-gauche/daisho flavor, or dual-wield forward grip daggers like your GW1 character!

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

 

 

Different skills, different job, differently viewed by society. . . sounds like in gaming that would be a profession change/reroll.

 

I mean, thank you for the history lesson, but I don't think you should get too carried away with using "this is how it was in historical Japan" as a rule or justification. Thief has elements of ninja, sure (because it has elements of Assassin btw), but you shouldn't try to conform the history and culture of Tyria to Earth's.

 

I think regardless if it's historically accurate or romanticized, when people pick classes they're looking forward to playing certain themes. And the GW2 description of the Warrior is the weapons master of the battlefield.

 

 

Samurai feels more like a warrior archetype, I'm still hoping for an Assassin-inspired spec.

 

Besides, the Guild Wars world already has its own lore and cultures to pull from, there's no need for them to turn Cantha into literally Japan.

I do like both lore and having new reasons to explore, but I don't think it's a good idea to suddenly deviate from the established system that players learn through core and have reinforced in both expansions. It would come across as messy game design and throw players for a loop, especially those that never asked for more lore/exploration.

 

If you reframe the idea of mastering your spec around acquiring the ascended weapon and not just the elite skill, I think collections can be just as fitting as long as Anet keeps improving their feel. The Design-A-Weapon collections for example felt better as a sequential, breadcrumb trail "quest" rather than just a grocery checklist.

 

Collections just need less filler trinkets that we get from some dude/event, same as every other profession, with no flavor besides a name and a location hint. They need more interactables with lore which lead to new areas with new interactables with lore. Even better if they can give lore through gameplay, like having each heart vendor have special dialogue for a specific profession, and that profession gains access to additional optional activities they can complete to fill the heart.

 

> @"Raknar.4735" said:

> She starts the fight with shield/sword, but later switches to an offhand sword. I've noticed that when I fought her.

>

> I've found a video where you can quickly check it if you want: [https://youtube.com/watch?v=QUOe2dm-pAM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUOe2dm-pAM)

> At around 20 minutes into the video you can see her dual wielding.

 

Ah yeah, cool. Does she start taking more damage at that point, too? I guess it would make sense to get an all-in, aggressive spec next, but it still might just be showcasing Almorra's battle fury for the narrative. The next spec needs more than burning rush to feel fresh.

> @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:

> I would like to see dual-short-swords, but dual-long-swords looks dumb.

 

> @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:

 

> Not likely. The only "assassin" that uses dual swords is Shiro

 

There were [a ](https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Alari%27s_Double_Blades)[few](https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Law_and_Order) [other](https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Oroku%27s_Slicers) [daggers](https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Decade_Daggers_%22High_Noon%22) besides Shiro's that were skinned as dual swords, but have you seen the [insert legion] combat blade skins that were just added? Along with the really short sword from the boreal weapon set(s), it shows they're willing to add sword skins that are dagger or short-sword length.

 

If we got off-hand sword, the elite spec exotic weapon could have a dagger/short-sword skin, and the ascended weapon could be a fancier full-length sword version.

 

It looked like mh-sword + shield to me, and the other move just looked like a recolored ele fire dagger 3. I think the rest was just sword 2 and 3, shield 4, and an effect from (I think) mace 3.

 

There is a weapon animation that I think is new, but it's so niche that I think we can just chalk it up to an NPC's special weapon.

I'm also hoping for assassin, and I had an idea for the way they could implement combo chains in my home-brew concept. ([link if you're curious](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/79791/elite-spec-suggestion-legacy-of-the-assassin-powers-of-shadow-and-steel))

 

To get a different feel from the mainly damage-focused DD and DE, I was thinking more along the lines of shadow form, like barrier that can be beefed up for self-sustain or shared for group support. There can still be dps-focused traits of course, just one trait row with support synergy is all I'm asking.

> @"Fueki.4753" said:

> > @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > People see a picture and deduce that it's cantha, no dev confirm... Maybe it's not.

>

> From what I've read, Shing Jea is in that image file's data.

 

Not in the still image, but in the gif on the home page. Also, the tagline for the post is "Feel the [winds of change](https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Winds_of_Change)."

This was my Assassin spec idea for thief: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/79791/elite-spec-suggestion-legacy-of-the-assassin-powers-of-shadow-and-steel

 

I do not think thief needs another spec with a focus on high burst/ganking though, so it's more "inspired by" assassin, particularly the shadowform build. Something like "shadowblade" might be a more fitting name since it does a few things differently like more magic/AOE skills and trait options for support/tanking.

 

But the most important element the thief could gain from the assassin: Skill chaining! A spec that restricts initiative's ability to spam a single skill but rewards chaining different skills together.

> @"kharmin.7683" said:

> So ... if Cantha wouldn't be like it was 250 years ago, it would be completely new.

 

Because it doesn't have to be one of those two extremes? It doesn't have to be either a slavish reproduction of the old game, or Mars. It's a big continent, there's plenty of room for variety. We could get places we've seen that now look completely different, places we've seen than still resemble the past, places that are in transition, and of course places that are completely new because we actually haven't seen the majority of the land mass.

 

> Why not just go to someplace completely new, then?

 

Sure, but compared to the lands of "Wetland" and "Not Real", Cantha has a stronger foundation for the narrative and distinctive cultural aesthetics for weapons/armor/skills from the Canthans/Luxons/Kurzicks/Tengu/Naga/Yeti/Wardens etc. Maybe the aesthetic isn't for you, but it might be for many others and odds are Cantha is our only chance at it.

Yes for me, and I agree with your point about getting two two-handers despite having a unique skill type for off-hands. I even made a conceptual post of an elite spec for it, full traits and pictures and stuff.

 

However I'll play any new spec if it comes out. At this point, I've mellowed out a bit with regards to the weapon. In order of importance to me, if getting new specs at all is the first, the second would be if the spec can offer a different playstyle, and third would be if it can introduce a new role to the class. After that would be the theme, which would include whichever particular weapon is being added.

How about also updating skill tooltips to include defiance bar damage? Then players can see their actual values outside the wiki, note the differences between (and the existence of) soft vs hard cc, and maybe even those with max dps tunnel vision will start taking notice.

 

Some suggestions:

* Keep the tutorial short but not skippable, so that players who know the drill can breeze through quickly but players who don't (but would otherwise assume they do) can't skip it without learning something.

* In a personal instance, so players can't carried by other people without understanding the mechanic themselves.

* Against some object with no hp bar, so they can't brute force their way through the tutorial by killing it.

* At least the initial object should be nonthreatening like the clams in Ember Bay, so they won't be distracted by their own health or trying to avoid attacks, and they can take the time to read defiance bar info and tooltips. There can be a later mob that does damage.

 

Maybe a good place to place for this instance would be at level 10 when players have all five weapons skills and unlock weapon swap, but they get sent here before they get the letter to start the next personal story step. While a racial + class specific trainer would be cool, it would be hard to explain for revenant, so maybe just a racial specific trainer with the dialogue for revenant being similar to: "Hmm, never seen anyone do/fight like that before."

 

Inside the instance there could be two tables: one with all of the weapons of the player's class for temporary use, with maybe some descriptions of cc types and how traits can also apply them. The other table could have an assortment of the environmental weapons like rocks and branches, accompanied by snarky comments from the trainer.

 

However, placing the tutorial at an early level would also require that some mobs in the leveling maps be updated with defiance bars. (When's the earliest mob with one? Orr?) I think without the constant reinforcement of the mechanic, by the time players actually meet one, they'll have forgotten about it.

> @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:

> > @"Kurrilino.2706" said:

> > > @"otto.5684" said:

> > > > @"Kurrilino.2706" said:

> > > > > @"otto.5684" said:

> > > > > It is not expansion level content. But Anet did not promise expansion level content anyway. It is the same as last LW.

> > > >

> > > > ???????

> > > >

> > > > ANet: The new Saga will have epansion level content

> > > >

> > > > You: Anet didn't promise expansion level content

> > > >

> > > > ??????

> > >

> > > Not defending Anet. They made a big deal out of the saga, while it is nothing more than another LW (and not doing too good comparatively so far). They did not explicitly say it is expansion level content. They implicitly kinda marketed it that way. Many people jumped on the hype train and got burned.

> > >

> > > I 100% agree that neither of the 2 new maps or expansion level maps (and honestly, neither were PoF maps). And without new skills/weapons/elites, it surely is not an expansion.

> > >

> > > I guess the only saving grace is that it is free (assuming you own PoF). So, you can vote with your money and not buy gems. I have not paid to Anet a dime since PoF. And from how things going, I probably never will.

> >

> > Actually the Bossman anounced it exactly as Expansion like content at the presentation.

> > Sure, it's not written down but enough people heard and saw it. Including me

>

> Actually, it _is_ written down: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Icebrood_Saga_announcement

> I, personally, can not find any quote about 'expansion-like content' in that announcement. I think it must be somewhere else? Perhaps, the forums?

 

The earliest mention of "expansion level" is from a post in a forum thread by Mike Z from Jan 2019, I think? [[HERE](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/793355#Comment_793355)] The video he mentions ([Celebrating 6 Years of Guild Wars 2](

), from Aug 2018) talks about going fron LS4 into LS5 and the content/features they were adding, but the exact phrase wasn't added until that post.

 

The phrase was apparently known to the press as well, mentioned in the PCGamesN interview [[HERE](https://www.pcgamesn.com/guild-wars-2/pvp-raids-world-restructuring)] with Mike Z from PAX West 2019 as the "early messaging" of "expansion-tier features." Not sure if this was referencing the same forum post + community discussion or some other messaging the press received. In any case, Mike Z acknowledges the phrase by listing the features he considered to be expansion level: cooking 500 and build templates.