MakubeC.3026

All those initiative changes are gonna throw off everybody. Initiative costs are the single most delicate thing to change in this game.

Hi @"Cal Cohen.3527" .

I would like to suggest you include in your OP the old CDI discussion format, where it showed people how to properly talk/ make suggestions about a subject. That way, I feel like the info had a lot of structure and was more approachable than "nerf thief", and a lot of devs praised those threads for being very valuable because of that.~~I tried finding it on the old forums, but it seems long gone. Perhaps you guys can dig it out.~~

EDIT: Here you go.

_________________________________________________

**Suggested Idea Format**

**Proposal Overview**

A short description of the proposal that is being put forward

1. Goal of Proposal

2. What problem are you trying to solve with your proposal

3. Proposal Functionality

4. How does your proposal work in regard in relation to the current design of GW2

5. Associated Risks

6. What risks or problems can you foresee with this proposal which you would like to have assistance on from other members of the CDI

**Please try to be as concise as feasible with your proposal.**

_Suggested Discussion Approach

No suggested format.

Suggested Post Word Count: 200_

CDI Rules:

1: This initiative is all about discussion.

2: We will not be disclosing information pertaining to what is currently in development.

3: Anger and emotion will have less impact than intelligent discussion.

4: Together we will share and evolve design philosophies which will impact how we develop the game moving forward.

5: Aggression and disrespect to a fellow community member or developer will not be tolerated, and in the extreme could lead to the shutting down of the initiative.

6: The teams primary focus is work toward the development of GW2 and therefore posting of discussion and commentary may not be as frequent as you like. Please do understand that the initiative is taken very seriously by us all and that we will be reading the discussions and joining in as often as it is possible to do so.

7: Off topic posts will be deleted.

Please note this is not a competition, either between yourselves or the developers in regard to one up man ship. The point of this Initiative is to work together to make the game better.

Note: We will disclose the ideas we do or don’t like as a group but we will not discuss schedules or timing around implementation.

__________________________________________________________

I just wanted to say: great job Anet!

This is a great feature and it is way more than what I expected.

Sadly, there will always be people who complain. But matters not. Kudos.

Regarding a bit of the future:

With the Dragon menace mostly controlled by the end of last season, should we expect the narrative moving away from Elder Dragons or is that something you still want to pursue in other ways?

Never mind, found something:

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/80657/so-what-happens-when-swiss-comes#latest

Last I can find with a dev response is this:

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/50062/update-on-swiss-and-on-demand-ats

Any other updates? Almost 1 year and a half later.

Really appreciate these technical talks. Good thing it is now resolved! Thanks.

Long ago I wrote this idea. Would love something like it to be implemented one day.

**The Chief Bandit**

**Class Role:**

Tank and support through self-administered ally healing.

**Weapon:**

Hammer.

**Profession Mechanic:**

Chief Bandit Presence: You become revealed instead of gaining stealth. When you are revealed gain flip-over skills.

(All abilities that work while stealth, now work while revealed).

**Minor Traits:**

**Chief Bandit Presence:** You become revealed instead of gaining stealth. When you are revealed gain flip-over skills. Gain alacrity when revealed. Alacrity also affects your traits.

**Quick tongue:** Gain quickness when you Shout while revealed. Shouts have increased range.

**Bandit’s Endurance:** Gain 1 stack of Bandit’s Endurance every 3 seconds after you been hit. Max stack: 5

Bandit’s Endurance: +70 toughness.

**Adept:**

**1. Leader not Boss:** Copy 3 of your boons to 3 random allies within the threshold. (If they already had them, stack duration). CD: Pulse every 15 secs.

**2. Clear Orders:** Allies heal for a set amount when they abandon the threshold. 400 units. CD: 10secs per ally.

**3. The Best Defense:** Become revealed when your initiative is below 5. If you have revitalization when this occurs, consume the boon for it's total healing.

**Master:**

**1. Fierce Leader:**

Gain: 1/2 sec of protection for each ally within 300 units. (Up to 5).

1/2 sec of retaliation for every foe within 300 units. (up to 5).

CD:15 secs.

**2. Bringer of Havoc:** Allies within the threshold heal for 15% of their critical hits. Exactly in between 400-500 units. Max: 5.

**3. Advanced Bandit’s Defense:**Gain a block when your endurance is below 30. If you block something, gain back some endurance.

**Grandmaster:**

**1. Render to Caesar:** Copy all boons of a random ally within the threshold to yourself. (If you already had them, stack duration) CD: 20secs.

**2. Blood of a Martyr:** Allies around you heal for 50% of the damage you receive. Exactly in between 300 to 400 units. Max count: 5, CD: 10secs.

**3. Bandit’s Reprisal:** Gain retaliation if you have the max stack of Bandit’s Endurance.

**Weapon skills:**

**1. Melee-Aoe attack chain.** 3rd one steals a boon from one target.

**2. Headblow:** Swing your hammer in an arc, inflicting vulnerability and interrupting skills.

**3. Hammer Spin:** Spin in place along with your hammer, destroying projectiles and damaging foes.

**4. Battlefield Presence:** Stow your hammer for 3 seconds, becoming unable to attack. Become revealed. Downed allies in an area gain 2secs of stealth.

**5. Shadow Vortex:** Strike your hammer with force in front of you, pulling enemies in. Blast combo.

**Utilities:**

**6. Never surrender!:** Heal for x. The healing skill cooldown of nearby allies is reduced by x%.

Flip-over: Heal for less. This skill CD is halved.

**7. Pillage!:** The next two critical hits of you and your allies heals for 100% of damage. Ammunition: 3. CD: 30secs.

Flip-over: Self-heal for every ally affected.

**8. Arm yourselves!:** Grant two explosive kits to up to 5 allies. Their next two attacks deal more damage and burn.

Flip-over: When an ally does any combo, they also do a blast finisher.

**9. Together we stand!:** You and up to 5 people heal x for every ally around you. Also gain some protection for every foe in the threshold. Breaks stun.

Flip-over: Allies around you breaks stun.

**10. Ambush:** You and allies around you gain stealth. Their next attack copies two boons from the target.

Flip-over: Lose a condition for every boon copied.

**Elite- Assault!:** Allies affected by this shout cannot have their boons stripped or corrupted. Boons already on them last 50% more. Duration: 5 secs.

Flip-over: Lose all damaging conditions.

CD: 40secs.

All 1, boonshare.

All 2, healing.

all 3, tank.

What is this Marked stealth mechanic you're talking about? Never heard of it.

I agree.

I think having Zojja would of been better in a lot of situations.

Every time Taimi comes up with just the right idea to save the day, I can't avoid to cringe.

Her alone has had more ideas and success that the sum of all Asuras together. Always on point. Always ez to do.

So...what you're saying is that I have to buy all that ascended armor again? Come on bros....I even had a legendary piece already....

I'd like:

A hammer, support oriented Elite. (I created a nice prototype some time ago)

As OP says, a shadow based, dual sword wielder AoE Elite.

EDIT: Re-post here because why not.

**The Chief Bandit**

**Class Role:**

Tank and support through self-administered ally healing.

**Weapon:**

Hammer.

**Profession Mechanic:**

Chief Bandit Presence: You become revealed instead of gaining stealth. When you are revealed gain flip-over skills.

(All abilities that work while stealth, now work while revealed).

**Minor Traits:**

**Chief Bandit Presence:** You become revealed instead of gaining stealth. When you are revealed gain flip-over skills. Gain alacrity when revealed. Alacrity also affects your traits. Gain access to shouts.

**Quick tongue:** Gain quickness when you Shout while revealed. Shouts have increased range under these effects.

**Bandit’s Endurance:** Gain 1 stack of Bandit’s Endurance every 3 seconds after you been hit. Max stack: 5. Restart the stacks at count 6.

Bandit’s Endurance: +70 toughness.

**Adept:**

**1. Leader not Boss:** Copy all your boons to 3 random allies within the threshold. CD: Pulse every 10 secs.

**2. Clear Orders:** Allies heal for a set amount when they abandon the threshold. 400 units. CD: 10secs per ally.

**3. The Best Defense:** Become revealed when your initiative is below 2. If you have revitalization when this occurs, consume the boon for it's total healing.

**Master:**

**1. Fierce Leader:**

Gain: 1/2 sec of protection for each ally within 300 units. (Up to 5).

1/2 sec of retaliation for every foe within 300 units. (up to 5).

CD:15 secs.

**2. Bringer of Havoc:** Allies within the threshold heal for 15% of their critical hits. Exactly in between 400-500 units. Max: 5.

**3. Advanced Bandit’s Defense:**Gain a block when your endurance is below 30. If you block an attack, gain back some endurance.

**Grandmaster:**

**1. Render to Caesar:** Copy all boons of a random ally within the threshold to yourself. CD: 15 secs. Exactly in between 400 to 500 units.

**2. Blood of a Martyr:** Allies around you heal for 50% of the damage you receive. Exactly in between 300 to 400 units. Max count: 5, CD: 7secs.

**3. Bandit’s Reprisal:** Gain retaliation at max stack of Bandit’s Endurance.

**Weapon skills:**

**1. Melee-Aoe attack chain.** 3rd one steals a boon from one target.

**2. Headblow:** Swing your hammer in an arc, inflicting vulnerability and interrupting foes.

**3. Hammer Spin:** Spin in place along with your hammer, destroying projectiles and damaging foes.

**4. Battlefield Presence:** Stow your hammer for 3 seconds, becoming unable to attack. Become revealed. Downed allies in an area gain 2sec of stealth.

**5. Disrupting Hammer:** Strike your hammer with force in front of you, knocking back enemies. Blast combo.

**Utilities:**

**6. Never surrender!:** Heal for x. The healing skill cooldown of nearby allies is reduced by x%.

Flip-over: Heal for less. This skill CD is halved.

**7. Pillage!:** The next two critical hits of you and your allies heals for 100% of damage. Ammunition: 3. CD: 40secs.

Flip-over: Self-heal for every ally affected.

**8. Arm yourselves!:** Grant two explosive kits to up to 5 allies. Their next two attacks deal more damage and burn.

Flip-over: When an ally does any combo, they also do a blast finisher.

**9. Together we stand!:** You and up to 5 people heal x for every ally around you. Also gain some protection for every foe in the threshold. Breaks stun.

Flip-over: Allies around you breaks stun.

**10. Ambush:** You and allies around you gain stealth. Their next attack copies two boons from the target.

Flip-over: Lose a condition for every boon copied.

**Elite- Assault!:** Allies affected by this shout cannot have their boons stripped or corrupted. Boons already on them last 50% more. Duration: 5 secs.

Flip-over: Lose all damaging conditions.

CD: 30secs.

All 1, boonshare.

All 2, healing.

all 3, tank.

Hmm, could be interesting. Although I've always thought that just breaking kneel when jumping would be easier.

> @"sephiroth.4217" said:

> I think maybe simple changes like making it an 8v8 and not making it as PvE heavy

I've said it before and say it again: This would be a great change for Stronghold.

* Make it so you need to kill all the guards before killing the Lord.

* Widen the lanes a bit so it fits the new 10vs10 or 8vs8 better.

Those changes would drive me back and test the gamemode again.

With all due> @"Etheri.5406" said:

> And 5 man is a full pvp squad where as most GvG guilds played with 15 or 20 in WvW. So 10 is an arbitrary number from raids which matters why? By all means 10 man pvp would be nice, but stronghold? Hahahahaha.

With all due respect, I (and many other people dare I say) think a few changes could make Stronghold an interesting mode even for GvsG. Of course, nothing would be better than a simple landscape with no PvE as you mention, but an structured mode would be cool as well. As per the other things you say, you sound rather salty mate.

The idea of 10vs10 Stronghold is very appealing for me as a potential GvsG. 10 people is a full squad, and I reckon it should be enough to scratch that sweet spot the community is craving.

Very interesting question.

Thanks.

Just an idea I posted a long time ago in the original forums hehhe

**The Chief Bandit**

**Class Role:**

Tank and support through self-administered ally healing.

**Weapon:**

Hammer.

**Profession Mechanic:**

Chief Bandit Presence: You become revealed instead of gaining stealth. When you are revealed gain flip-over skills.

(All abilities that work while stealth, now work while revealed).

**Minor Traits:**

**Chief Bandit Presence:** You become revealed instead of gaining stealth. When you are revealed gain flip-over skills. Gain alacrity when revealed. Alacrity also affects your traits.

**Quick tongue:** Gain quickness when you Shout while revealed. Shouts have increased range.

**Bandit’s Endurance:** Gain 1 stack of Bandit’s Endurance every 3 seconds after you been hit. Max stack: 5

Bandit’s Endurance: +70 toughness.

**Adept:**

**1. Leader not Boss:** Copy all your boons to 3 random allies within the threshold.

CD: Pulse every 10 secs.

**2. Clear Orders:** Allies heal for a set amount when they abandon the threshold. 400 units. CD: 10secs per ally.

**3. The Best Defense:** Become revealed when your initiative is below 5. If you have revitalization when this occurs, consume the boon for it's total healing.

**Master:**

**1. Fierce Leader:**

Gain: 1/2 sec of protection for each ally within 300 units. (Up to 5).

1/2 sec of retaliation for every foe within 300 units. (up to 5).

CD:15 secs.

**2. Bringer of Havoc:** Allies within the threshold heal for 15% of their critical hits. Exactly in between 400-500 units. Max: 5.

**3. Advanced Bandit’s Defense:**Gain a block when your endurance is below 30. If you block something, gain back some endurance.

**Grandmaster:**

**1. Render to Caesar:** Copy all boons of a random ally within the threshold to yourself.

CD: 15 secs.

**2. Blood of a Martyr:** Allies around you heal for 50% of the damage you receive. Exactly in between 300 to 400 units. Max count: 5, CD: 8secs.

**3. Bandit’s Reprisal:** Gain retaliation if you have the max stack of Bandit’s Endurance.

**Weapon skills:**

**1. Melee-Aoe attack chain.** 3rd one steals a boon from one target.

**2. Headblow:** Swing your hammer in an arc, inflicting vulnerability and interrupting skills.

**3. Hammer Spin:** Spin in place along with your hammer, destroying projectiles and damaging foes.

**4. Battlefield Presence:** Stow your hammer for 3 seconds, becoming unable to attack. Become revealed and gain distortion. Downed allies in an area gain 1sec of stealth.

**5. Disrupting Hammer:** Strike your hammer with force in front of you, knocking back enemies. Blast combo.

**Utilities:**

**6. Never surrender!:** Heal for x. The healing skill cooldown of nearby allies is reduced by x%.

Flip-over: Heal for less. This skill CD is halved.

**7. Pillage!:** The next two critical hits of you and your allies heals for 100% of damage. Ammunition: 3. CD: 40secs.

Flip-over: Self-heal for every ally affected.

**8. Arm yourselves!:** Grant two explosive kits to up to 5 allies. Their next two attacks deal more damage and burn.

Flip-over: When an ally does any combo, they also do a blast finisher.

**9. Together we stand!:** You and up to 5 people heal x for every ally around you. Also gain some protection for every foe in the threshold. Breaks stun.

Flip-over: Allies around you breaks stun.

**10. Ambush:** You and allies around you gain stealth. Their next attack copies two boons from the target.

Flip-over: Lose a condition for every boon copied.

**Elite- Assault!:** Allies affected by this shout cannot have their boons stripped or corrupted. Boons already on them last 50% more. Duration: 5 secs.

Flip-over: Lose all damaging conditions.

CD: 40secs.

All 1, boonshare.

All 2, healing.

all 3, tank.

> @"Aaron Ansari.1604" said:

> > @"MakubeC.3026" said:

> > > @"Fenom.9457" said:

> > > So did he die in the process too or not?

> >

> > No.

>

> It's not that clear cut. They seem to have left it intentionally ambiguous- not having him appear in the final scene, having the skald dance around the issue with a phrase like 'willing to give his life'. There's nothing assertive either way.

His legend will forever live.

> @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > @"MakubeC.3026" said:

> > Bingo! I can't believe I missed it. I was sure it was it's own blog post that I didn't even take a second look at this article.

> > Thanks a lot.

>

> For reference, all/almost all blog posts with lore have been copied onto wiki and can be found at https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Category:Tales

I know. But this one was conceived into the technical blog post, and that's why I missed it.

> @"Fenom.9457" said:

> So did he die in the process too or not?

No.

I've had a few wet dreams about a support or healer spec. Even wrote my own!

> @"Kossage.9072" said:

> Are you by any chance referencing the norn cultural blog post [spirit of Legend](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/A_Spirit_of_Legend) which references a short story in between explanations by the dev? I see that for some reason the bottom of the page doesn't include the Lore nav infobox when it should (along with some other cultural blogs), so I'll go editing the infobox in for easier navigation from story to story. And yeah, it's indeed a fascinating story, showing us the benefits of Snow Leopard's way (and which in turn influenced my norn ranger to take Snow Leopard as his Spirit of the Wild). :)

>

> For reference, here's the short story without the dev explanations in between:

>

> > The fire blew sparks toward the heavens like stars seeking to return to their high, dark home. But there was no joy in this blaze, no celebration. What had once been a proud lodge was now little more than piles of ash huddled in the shadows of flickering, ember-lit logs.

> > "I'm sorry, Viskar." The old skaald placed his hand on the boy's shoulder. "There's nothing we can do. Your father lost the house, and everything in it, on his last wager with Grimhilde. She had the right to do whatever she chose with her winnings."

> > "She cheated. She cheated, but I can't prove it. What of my father, Fiach?" The youth snarled the words, biting off the syllables like a wolf gnawing its leg out of a trap. "Did she have the 'right' to kill him, too?"

> > Old Fiach sighed. "He was wrong to attack her. There will be no retribution from the Wolfborn of Hoelbrak for Grimhilde's actions. Nor should you seek vengeance upon her, Viskar. You are a new hunter, barely old enough to bear your own blade. Grimhilde is powerful, and legends of her cruelty are told at the moot to frighten children and humans." Shaking his head, the skaald pulled a leopard-fur cloak closer about his weary bones. "Put away your anger, young one. Bury your father. Leave this matter to the crows."

> > "No." Viskar wiped away his tears with the back of his hand, leaving soot stains across pale cheeks. "I may be young, Fiach, and I may be inexperienced."

> > "But I am still norn."

> > —

> > The stars above the Shiverpeaks were cold and bright, crowned by the iridescent borealis of the northern sky. In the Great Lodge of Hoelbrak, a youth stood before the shamans and sought lessons of revenge.

> > "No," said the shaman of Bear. "Learn strength, Viskar. Learn wisdom. Grimhilde does not seek victory. She seeks the utter annihilation of her enemy. I will not teach you to throw away your life."

> > "I am sorry," said Wolf's followers. "We would gladly help you avenge your family, but what you propose is suicide. Think of your pack. If you attack Grimhilde, she will punish those you love.'

> > The Havroun of Raven shook his head when Viskar asked. "You cannot even tell me how she cheated. Grimhilde is clever, and she always has a lethal surprise for her enemies. If you do not know more than she does, she will destroy you."

> > Viskar clenched his fists. "Will no one help me?"

> > A shadow moved in the corner of the lodge, and yellow eyes gleamed. "You haven't asked me yet," murmured the Speaker of Snow Leopard, Valharantha, her movements smooth and graceful.

> > "Will Snow Leopard teach me to take vengeance?" he asked. "If I follow her path, will she show me how to defeat Grimhilde?"

> > "More." Valharantha lowered her eyes and smiled. "She will turn your vengeance into legend."

> > —

> > Grimhilde knelt, studying the tracks. She'd been following them for six days, since the skaalds in Hoelbrak sung the legend of Whisperclaw, a fierce young mountain cat. Soon, she would challenge the beast, and—

> > "Grimhilde!" a voice called from the mountainside above. With a start, she reached for her weapon. Had someone come before her? Was her prey dead by another's hand? In anger, the warrior straightened and peered up into the crags. She did not have to wait long to see her enemy. "Who are you?" she asked cautiously, fingering the blade on her axe. If this stripling had stolen her prize, she would make him pay...with pain.

> > "I am your death, walking." The youth stood on a high ledge, balancing effortlessly. "Four years ago, you cheated my father of his life. I am here to avenge that debt."

> > "I remember you now." Grimhilde stepped backward and swept her axe from side to side. "Your father was a weak little thing—as are you. I should have slain you as a child, but that old man talked me out of it. No matter. I will deal with you, and when I return to the Great Lodge, I will end that relic of a storyteller as well."

> > The youth snarled, eyes bright with cold, bitter revenge. "You've come here to hunt," he said, "but you're the one being hunted. It is six days back to Hoelbrak over ice and snow, with no safe haven, no lodges or campgrounds along the way."

> > "You think to fight me?" she laughed. "Kill me, Grimhilde the Ferocious? The mightiest axe-wielder among the norn? You will die mewling like a kitten, young one. You're not powerful enough!"

> > "You're right. I'm not powerful enough to face you on your terms, so I'll face you on mine." The young hunter smiled wickedly. "Snow Leopard trained me in stealth and tracking. She also taught me to steel my mind against slumber. I can go five days without resting. I'll die after six, but I'll do it if I must. But you...you have to sleep sometime. And I'm willing to bet my life that you'll rest before I do."

> > Grimhilde stared at him, the blood draining from her face. "You would kill me in my sleep?"

> > "I will wait until my prey is at her weakest, and then I will strike." The young hunter smiled grimly. "And by Snow Leopard, I swear—you will never hear me coming."

> > —

> > "Let me tell you a tale." Old Fiach the skaald raised his hands to the sky as the fires of the moot crackled and leapt. "The story of the hero known as Viskar Whisperclaw. Hail the honor-son! Rightful rage-tender, shadow-striker, slayer of treasonous Grimhilde. Viskar, who despite all challenges, was willing to give his life to claim blood-debt from the one who had done him harm..."

>

>

>

Bingo! I can't believe I missed it. I was sure it was it's own blog post that I didn't even take a second look at this article.

Thanks a lot.

Hi.

This is most likely a request to one of the devs.

Before the game started, a few short stories were posted in the old Arenanet Blog. There's one I very vividly remember about a young Norn who's father was slain in bet argument by a woman...

*EDIT: Found it! Look down to the 3rd post.*

Thanks.

RIP Peter. SJWism takes yet another innocent life.