bravan.3876 Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > @"bravan.3876" > I never see the balance patch for other professions, what is this second daredevil trade-off you're talking about? You need to read my thread about Anets trade off agenda to understand what i mean i guess. But i try it in short: The way Anet seems to define mechanical trade off (what they want to add to all elites which don't have one) means, that elites have to give up core mechanics in exchange for getting elite mechanics. In Anets definition Fb would already have a trade off by losing core f-skills for tomes. How much worse or better the replacing mechanic is, is not relevant for Anet in the first place because the mechanical trade off agenda has nothing to do with good or bad balance in the first place. It is purely about replacing core mechanics with elite mechanics, or in case of elites which got something in addition to core (like Chrono, f5 just got added to the core f1-4 skills) they will delete some core mechanics at other places to compensate the more in mechanics or skills an elite got. In that definition from Anets mechanical trade off, Daredevil already had a trade off by losing normal dodges (at least when you trait in one of the major GM traits). Daredevil dodges are defined (i even posted the wiki definition) as different mechanic replacing core mechanic (core dodges). Just like Mirage has a trade off by losing normal dodges for MC. That the elite dodges are overall stronger than the core dodges does not matter in the first place for Anet. As you can see with the one dodge change, they can just add normal nerfs to the elite mechanic to then balance out the better mechanics from elites in a second step with normal nerfs. As far as consistent. But now Anet added Swipe as another trade off to Daredevil (they clearly called it a trade off, so there is no room for arguing if it makes sense to call it a trade off because unblockable feature got added and is compensating a good part of the lower range making the skill more clunky to use but also more unhealthy for the game). The Swipe rework to only 600 range and unblockable feature was a trade off for Anet. Means it can happen to Mirage too, that they will add another trade off. As i said their trade off agenda is a big mess. It is inconsistent no matter how you look at it, no matter how you define trade off. And since Anet incl the players they are obviously friends with and listen to have no clue about Mesmer and are just biased as hell, for Mirage everything can be possible. > @"viquing.8254" said: > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > @"bravan.3876" > > I never see the balance patch for other professions, what is this second daredevil trade-off you're talking about? > > Pretty much this, I didn't even want to discuss on a 10+ wall of text why his propositions (just bored thinking of this.) will just end with 4 more dead traits/skill while letting currently unused things unused but don't forget he want to nerf everyone passive, even if he mainly wrote about mesmer (you know, impartiality, start by making mesmers half traits more dead than they are then look at others.). I write the most about Mesmer because the most stupid stuff gets written about Mesmer funny thing is not only from biased Mesmer haters but also from biased Mesmer mains who obviously do not even understand their own elite spec. But if you think my balance changes are bad, then have fun with one dodge, overnerfed IH into uselessness and with being pressured into 2 utilties you have to use, actually 3 are set now for each Mirage build, Blink, Signet and Portal (much build diversity here true rofl). Holy cow writing about Mesmer stuff is the most frustrating because not even Mesmer mains have the ability to understand their own class/ elites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuma.1503 Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 Hold up, Anet is nerfing Mesmer's sustain in an upcoming patch? What sustain is there to nerf? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odik.4587 Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 @"bravan.3876" Ofc I wont read your wall not directed at me, you always think you are right at everything and know everything better than anyone else, so no point even trying. Ban wintraders etc? Are you talking about this silver-gold player that bought god of pvp few times? I bet he would commit sUWUcide if he would get perma banned and they just wont because he is the big part of their income :joy: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viquing.8254 Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 > @"Kuma.1503" said: > Hold up, Anet is nerfing Mesmer's sustain in an upcoming patch? > > What sustain is there to nerf? Signet of illusion of course, there is some mesmers who use it in mirage to compensate the lose of dodge by doubling F4. Clearly OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidrex.5649 Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 > @"viquing.8254" said: > > @"Kuma.1503" said: > > Hold up, Anet is nerfing Mesmer's sustain in an upcoming patch? > > > > What sustain is there to nerf? > > Signet of illusion of course, there is some mesmers who use it in mirage to compensate the lose of dodge by doubling F4. > Clearly OP. i bet if soi gets nerfed and mirage starts using IA to compensate for the dodge it will get targeted next lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bravan.3876 Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 > @"Odik.4587" said: > @"bravan.3876" > Ofc I wont read your wall not directed at me, you always think you are right at everything and know everything better than anyone else, so no point even trying. > Ban wintraders etc? Are you talking about this silver-gold player that bought god of pvp few times? I bet he would commit sUWUcide if he would get perma banned and they just wont because he is the big part of their income :joy: If you won't read than also do not judge. What nonsense and destructive way of discussing is this? When you don't want to read then also do not say anything to it. Makes no sense at all. Yes i mean players around that topic to give a PvE achievement hunter some PvP titles. Reported several times from a lot of ppl as far as i know. Never banned because reasons rofl. Seems to be a good choice to discuss balance with xD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bravan.3876 Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 > @"viquing.8254" said: > > @"Kuma.1503" said: > > Hold up, Anet is nerfing Mesmer's sustain in an upcoming patch? > > > > What sustain is there to nerf? > > Signet of illusion of course, there is some mesmers who use it in mirage to compensate the lose of dodge by doubling F4. > Clearly OP. All Mesmers using it atm but you prefer to keep its op f4 reset instead getting 2 dodges back and get more build diversity and more skill ceiling because Mirage with IH can work with normal endurance dodges the best in a skilled and tactical way. While Signet of Illusion is a low skill ceiling utility rewarding shatterspam and reduces punish for shatter cd wastes. But lets wait i have the feeling that Anet goes another way by replacing f4 invuln on Mirage with something else as a second trade off (and this one will be excluded by Signet of Illusion just like Chronos f4), i hope you will be happy then xD Also instead nerfing that Signet in a way it should be they maybe will just add a skill lock out to f4 just as they did to Ele. I will laugh double as hard when that happens. But it was your Mesmer mains choice, you literally ask for nerfs around issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odik.4587 Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 > @"bravan.3876" said: > > @"Odik.4587" said: > > @"bravan.3876" > > Ofc I wont read your wall not directed at me, you always think you are right at everything and know everything better than anyone else, so no point even trying. > > Ban wintraders etc? Are you talking about this silver-gold player that bought god of pvp few times? I bet he would commit sUWUcide if he would get perma banned and they just wont because he is the big part of their income :joy: > > If you won't read than also do not judge. What nonsense and destructive way of discussuing is this? When you don't want to read then also do not say anything to it. Makes no sense at all. You alrdy stated that you know mesmer better than anyone else, every mesmer player is clueless (95%) and bad and apparently you know everything and always right. No?:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidrex.5649 Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 @"bravan.3876" lol, you are asking us if we want our right or left leg broken, i want 2 functional legs thank you very much, and I aint paying untill thats done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bravan.3876 Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > @"bravan.3876" lol, you are asking us if we want our right or left leg broken, i want 2 functional legs thank you very much, and I aint paying untill thats done. You still don't understand that your balance suggestion to IH dumbs it down and break a leg from Mirage. You also don't get that the one dodge change is the only reason you are forced into using that broken Signet in the first place. If you get 2 dodges back you get both legs back and the freedom to choose another utility than a broken Signet should not exist in its current state. I even said for Odik, that it can get a little cd reduction and a little reduction in cast time as compensation to make it not a dead utility, still useful just not as broken as it is now and for certain less mandatory to use. But if you guys prefer to have only one dodge and being pressured in using this broken and low skill ceiling Signet on every single Mirage build then why do i even care. If you Mesmer mains think that you can just get 2 dodges back and nothing else needs to be adjusted to make Mirage on power and condi not op compared to other classes post patch and based on having 2 dodges again, then there is no basic to discuss, that is too delusional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lincolnbeard.1735 Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 > @"bravan.3876" said: >DD stuff I see what you mean and I disagree but not wanting to derail this topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidrex.5649 Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 > @"bravan.3876" said: > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > @"bravan.3876" lol, you are asking us if we want our right or left leg broken, i want 2 functional legs thank you very much, and I aint paying untill thats done. > > You still don't understand that your balance suggestion to IH dumbs it down and break a leg from Mirage. You also don't get that the one dodge change is the only reason you are forced into using that broken Singet in the first place. If you get 2 dodges back you get both legs back and the freedom to choose another utility than a broken Singet should not exist in its current state. I even said for Odik, that it can get a little cd reduction and a little reduction in cast time as compensation to make it not a dead utility, still useful just not as broken as it is now and for certain less mandatory to use. But if you guys prefer to have only one dodge and being pressured in using this broken and low skill ceiling Signet on every single Mirage build then why do i even care. > > If you Mesmer mains think that you can just get 2 dodges back and nothing else needs to be adjusted to make Mirage on power and condi not op compared to other classes post patch and based on having 2 dodges again, then there is no basic to discuss, that is too delusional. 4s invlun>extra dodge if you dont get that they I dont know what to tell you, even with 2 dodges mirage would still be forced to take soi to survive, thx for nerfing all sustain and evasion from staff/scept/axe, but you dont get it and you refuse to accept it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viquing.8254 Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 > @"bravan.3876" said: > > @"viquing.8254" said: > > > @"Kuma.1503" said: > > > Hold up, Anet is nerfing Mesmer's sustain in an upcoming patch? > > > > > > What sustain is there to nerf? > > > > Signet of illusion of course, there is some mesmers who use it in mirage to compensate the lose of dodge by doubling F4. > > Clearly OP. > > All Mesmers using it atm but you prefer to keep its op f4 reset instead getting 2 dodges back and get more build diversity and more skill ceiling because Mirage with IH can work with normal endurance dodges the best in a skilled and tactical way. While Signet of Illusion is a low skill ceiling utility rewarding shatterspam and reduces punish for shatter cd wastes. But lets wait i have the feeling that Anet goes another way by replacing f4 invuln on Mirage with something else as a second trade off (and this one will be excluded by Signet of Illusion just like Chronos f4), i hope you will be happy then xD Also instead nerfing that Signet in a way it should be they maybe will just add a skill lock out to f4 just as they did to Ele. I will laugh double as hard when that happens. But it was your Mesmer mains choice, you literally ask for nerfs around issues. LMAO. Thanks for this morning laugh, really. > All Mesmers using it atm but you prefer to keep its op f4 reset instead getting 2 dodges back Did mirage used this before patch since PoF release ? (And the damage output, weapon sustain are already nerfed post patch.) > While Signet of Illusion is a low skill ceiling utility rewarding shatterspam and reduces punish for shatter cd wastes. Ok at this moment, you just lose the few credibility I gave to you. Did YOU really wrote this ? Like seriously ? Signet of illusion is low skill ceiling now ?! (You think 2 sec that some mes spamming shatter and signet can still win against someone ?) Did you just know why SoIl is used currently ? You just seems like a inquisition fanatic : - You don't like someone : it's a sorcess, burn it ! => mesmer use something : it's low skill ceiling, nerf it ! Continue your crusade and brainwashing until mesmer has 90% dead things if you want, you just lose your time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bravan.3876 Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > @"bravan.3876" lol, you are asking us if we want our right or left leg broken, i want 2 functional legs thank you very much, and I aint paying untill thats done. > > > > You still don't understand that your balance suggestion to IH dumbs it down and break a leg from Mirage. You also don't get that the one dodge change is the only reason you are forced into using that broken Singet in the first place. If you get 2 dodges back you get both legs back and the freedom to choose another utility than a broken Singet should not exist in its current state. I even said for Odik, that it can get a little cd reduction and a little reduction in cast time as compensation to make it not a dead utility, still useful just not as broken as it is now and for certain less mandatory to use. But if you guys prefer to have only one dodge and being pressured in using this broken and low skill ceiling Signet on every single Mirage build then why do i even care. > > > > If you Mesmer mains think that you can just get 2 dodges back and nothing else needs to be adjusted to make Mirage on power and condi not op compared to other classes post patch and based on having 2 dodges again, then there is no basic to discuss, that is too delusional. > > 4s invlun>extra dodge > if you dont get that they I dont know what to tell you, even with 2 dodges mirage would still be forced to take soi to survive, thx for nerfing all sustain and evasion from staff/scept/axe, but you dont get it and you refuse to accept it That is not true, with 2 dodges even Powermirage was able to choose another utility over Signet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bravan.3876 Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 > @"viquing.8254" said: > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > > @"viquing.8254" said: > > > > @"Kuma.1503" said: > > > > Hold up, Anet is nerfing Mesmer's sustain in an upcoming patch? > > > > > > > > What sustain is there to nerf? > > > > > > Signet of illusion of course, there is some mesmers who use it in mirage to compensate the lose of dodge by doubling F4. > > > Clearly OP. > > > > All Mesmers using it atm but you prefer to keep its op f4 reset instead getting 2 dodges back and get more build diversity and more skill ceiling because Mirage with IH can work with normal endurance dodges the best in a skilled and tactical way. While Signet of Illusion is a low skill ceiling utility rewarding shatterspam and reduces punish for shatter cd wastes. But lets wait i have the feeling that Anet goes another way by replacing f4 invuln on Mirage with something else as a second trade off (and this one will be excluded by Signet of Illusion just like Chronos f4), i hope you will be happy then xD Also instead nerfing that Signet in a way it should be they maybe will just add a skill lock out to f4 just as they did to Ele. I will laugh double as hard when that happens. But it was your Mesmer mains choice, you literally ask for nerfs around issues. > > LMAO. Thanks for this morning laugh, really. We can laugh together when this "balance changes" go live. With Anet everything is possible. > > > All Mesmers using it atm but you prefer to keep its op f4 reset instead getting 2 dodges back > Did mirage used this before patch since PoF release ? (And the damage output, weapon sustain are already nerfed post patch.) Some Mirage builds did use it but it was not mandatory, not even on Powermirage with no other def from Chaosline or defensive weapons. Also all classes got nerfed (some are still overperforming in sustain what hopefully will get adjusted soon too). You have to put a 2 dodge Mirage into post patch environment and i am telling you that a 2 dodge Mirage without any adjustments at other places will be op post patch, most likely even on power. > > > While Signet of Illusion is a low skill ceiling utility rewarding shatterspam and reduces punish for shatter cd wastes. > Ok at this moment, you just lose the few credibility I gave to you. > Did YOU really wrote this ? Like seriously ? Signet of illusion is low skill ceiling now ?! (You think 2 sec that some mes spamming shatter and signet can still win against someone ?) > Did you just know why SoIl is used currently ? It is mandatory to use now to compensate for the one dodge change what is a stupid nerf in the first place but giving Mirage 2 doges back + Signet in current form would be op post patch. If you deny that you cannot be taken serious. And there are only few ways to avoid Mirage being op with 2 dodges post patch: Either it keeps it one dodge and everything can stay as it is. Or you get your 2 dodges back but f4 gets somehow reworked and nerfed (either by a second trade off or a skill lock out) and i guess we both agree that those ways would be way worse than just excluding f4 reset from Signet what should be excluded in general, also on core, because it is simply too strong to have an complete invul skill on such short cd. Ppl even cry about that it needs a skill lock out. But as said try to keep the f4 reset on that Signet but you have to live with one dodge than or you will even get a way worse nerf to f4 in the future, i bet on it. > > You just seems like a inquisition fanatic : > - You don't like someone, it's a sorcess, burn it ! => mesmer use something : it's low skill ceiling, nerf it ! > > Continue your crusade and brainwashing until mesmer has 90% dead things if you want, you just lose your time. Nonesense doesn't worth to be answered Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bravan.3876 Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > @"bravan.3876" said: > >DD stuff > > I see what you mean and I disagree but not wanting to derail this topic. > > I just describted to you Anets PoV and intention and the definition of trade off they seems to have. No clue what you disagree to but you better discuss that with Anet and not me then^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidrex.5649 Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 > @"bravan.3876" said: > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > @"bravan.3876" lol, you are asking us if we want our right or left leg broken, i want 2 functional legs thank you very much, and I aint paying untill thats done. > > > > > > You still don't understand that your balance suggestion to IH dumbs it down and break a leg from Mirage. You also don't get that the one dodge change is the only reason you are forced into using that broken Singet in the first place. If you get 2 dodges back you get both legs back and the freedom to choose another utility than a broken Singet should not exist in its current state. I even said for Odik, that it can get a little cd reduction and a little reduction in cast time as compensation to make it not a dead utility, still useful just not as broken as it is now and for certain less mandatory to use. But if you guys prefer to have only one dodge and being pressured in using this broken and low skill ceiling Signet on every single Mirage build then why do i even care. > > > > > > If you Mesmer mains think that you can just get 2 dodges back and nothing else needs to be adjusted to make Mirage on power and condi not op compared to other classes post patch and based on having 2 dodges again, then there is no basic to discuss, that is too delusional. > > > > 4s invlun>extra dodge > > if you dont get that they I dont know what to tell you, even with 2 dodges mirage would still be forced to take soi to survive, thx for nerfing all sustain and evasion from staff/scept/axe, but you dont get it and you refuse to accept it > > That is not true, with 2 dodges even Powermirage was able to choose another utility over Signet. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viquing.8254 Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 Sigh, how much clueless I will have to read today.... > @"bravan.3876" said: > > > While Signet of Illusion is a low skill ceiling utility rewarding shatterspam and reduces punish for shatter cd wastes. > > Ok at this moment, you just lose the few credibility I gave to you. > > Did YOU really wrote this ? Like seriously ? Signet of illusion is low skill ceiling now ?! (You think 2 sec that some mes spamming shatter and signet can still win against someone ?) > > Did you just know why SoIl is used currently ? > > It is mandatory to use now to compensate for the one dodge change what is a stupid nerf in the first place but giving Mirage 2 doges back + Signet in current form would be op post patch. If you deny that you cannot be taken serious. And there are only few ways to avoid Mirage being op with 2 dodges post patch: > Either it keeps it one dodge and everything can stay as it is. Or you get your 2 dodges back but f4 gets somehow reworked and nerfed (either by a second trade off or a skill lock out) and i guess we both agree that those ways would be way worse than just excluding f4 reset from Signet what should be excluded in general, also on core, because it is simply too strong to have an complete invul skill on such short cd. Ppl even cry about that it needs a skill lock out. But as said try to keep the f4 reset on that Signet but you have to live with one dodge than or you will even get a way worse nerf to f4 in the future, i bet on it. No, you really don't get it. It's not only used to give more sustain thanks to one dodge. There is currently uses cases who used it : - Misha condi/boonclear mirage build. - Signets builds. In the case of misha build, it's all about synergy with the build : - It's used to F2 bursting when needed. - It's used to F3 boonclear/CCing when needed. - It's used to F4 when pressured. And this is because the build is based on a F2 burst and F3 boonclear. And of course the 3 uses cases barely happen at the same time, so basically when to reset one of shatter at the right time is what differentiate a good mesmer from a random. A player who rollface his 4 shatter, use signet, then rerollface his 4 shatters will be as usefull as a snail. This right moment to know what to reset at which time is one of the main reason why misha is in top 10 while the next mesmer is far away. Domination line, illusion line + no DE on his build explain why Signet of Illusion way more than one dodge. Which will not change with one or two dodges. Since when you become this bad in theorycraft ? In the case of signet build, it's mainly because signet of inspiration was destroyed. Trust me that I prefer way much a team signet like signet of inspiration was before being deleted than a self-effect signet who will just delay my death. > > > > You just seems like a inquisition fanatic : > > - You don't like someone, it's a sorcess, burn it ! => mesmer use something : it's low skill ceiling, nerf it ! > > > > Continue your crusade and brainwashing until mesmer has 90% dead things if you want, you just lose your time. > > Nonesense doesn't worth to be answered Yeah I know only reality hurt. <3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bravan.3876 Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 > @"viquing.8254" said: > Sigh, how much clueless I will have to read today.... > > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > > > While Signet of Illusion is a low skill ceiling utility rewarding shatterspam and reduces punish for shatter cd wastes. > > > Ok at this moment, you just lose the few credibility I gave to you. > > > Did YOU really wrote this ? Like seriously ? Signet of illusion is low skill ceiling now ?! (You think 2 sec that some mes spamming shatter and signet can still win against someone ?) > > > Did you just know why SoIl is used currently ? > > > > It is mandatory to use now to compensate for the one dodge change what is a stupid nerf in the first place but giving Mirage 2 doges back + Signet in current form would be op post patch. If you deny that you cannot be taken serious. And there are only few ways to avoid Mirage being op with 2 dodges post patch: > > Either it keeps it one dodge and everything can stay as it is. Or you get your 2 dodges back but f4 gets somehow reworked and nerfed (either by a second trade off or a skill lock out) and i guess we both agree that those ways would be way worse than just excluding f4 reset from Signet what should be excluded in general, also on core, because it is simply too strong to have an complete invul skill on such short cd. Ppl even cry about that it needs a skill lock out. But as said try to keep the f4 reset on that Signet but you have to live with one dodge than or you will even get a way worse nerf to f4 in the future, i bet on it. > > No, you really don't get it. > It's not only used to give more sustain thanks to one dodge. > There is currently uses cases who used it : > - Misha condi/boonclear mirage build. > - Signets builds. > > In the case of misha build, it's all about synergy with the build : > - It's used to F2 bursting when needed. > - It's used to F3 boonclear/CCing when needed. > - It's used to F4 when pressured. > > And this is because the build is based on a F2 burst and F3 boonclear. > And of course the 3 uses cases barely happen at the same time, so basically when to reset one of shatter at the right time is what differentiate a good mesmer from a random. A player who rollface his 4 shatter, use signet, then rerollface his 4 shatters will be as usefull as a snail. > This right moment to know what to reset at which time is one of the main reason why misha is in top 10 while the next mesmer is far away. > Domination line, illusion line + no DE on his build explain why Signet of Illusion way more than one dodge. Which will not change with one or two dodges. > Since when you become this bad in theorycraft ? > > In the case of signet build, it's mainly because signet of inspiration was destroyed. > Trust me that I prefer way much a team signet like signet of inspiration was before being deleted than a self-effect signet who will just delay my death. > > > > > > > You just seems like a inquisition fanatic : > > > - You don't like someone, it's a sorcess, burn it ! => mesmer use something : it's low skill ceiling, nerf it ! > > > > > > Continue your crusade and brainwashing until mesmer has 90% dead things if you want, you just lose your time. > > > > Nonesense doesn't worth to be answered > > Yeah I know only reality hurt. <3 F1-3 reset will not be affected, those will even get a slightly lower cd and even less coutner by shorter cat time. The only problem with this Signet is the f4 reset (and that not only on Mirage) and when you get 2 dodges back that will not be mandatory to have anymore and you will get more freedom of choice to use other utilities instead. Atm every single Mirage build needs to use the Signet to even have a chance to survive, that can't be what you are happy with. Not to mention that only one Mirage build is semi viable when be babysitted by other roamers and limited to be mainly a portal and debuff bot with just some burst condi dmg. While IH now is the one completely overnerfed into uselessness while IH at least has the potential to be a more active and skilled trait then a simple condi remove on dodge doesn't define Mirage as a different spec from core at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viquing.8254 Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 > @"bravan.3876" said: > > @"viquing.8254" said: > > Sigh, how much clueless I will have to read today.... > > > > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > > > > While Signet of Illusion is a low skill ceiling utility rewarding shatterspam and reduces punish for shatter cd wastes. > > > > Ok at this moment, you just lose the few credibility I gave to you. > > > > Did YOU really wrote this ? Like seriously ? Signet of illusion is low skill ceiling now ?! (You think 2 sec that some mes spamming shatter and signet can still win against someone ?) > > > > Did you just know why SoIl is used currently ? > > > > > > It is mandatory to use now to compensate for the one dodge change what is a stupid nerf in the first place but giving Mirage 2 doges back + Signet in current form would be op post patch. If you deny that you cannot be taken serious. And there are only few ways to avoid Mirage being op with 2 dodges post patch: > > > Either it keeps it one dodge and everything can stay as it is. Or you get your 2 dodges back but f4 gets somehow reworked and nerfed (either by a second trade off or a skill lock out) and i guess we both agree that those ways would be way worse than just excluding f4 reset from Signet what should be excluded in general, also on core, because it is simply too strong to have an complete invul skill on such short cd. Ppl even cry about that it needs a skill lock out. But as said try to keep the f4 reset on that Signet but you have to live with one dodge than or you will even get a way worse nerf to f4 in the future, i bet on it. > > > > No, you really don't get it. > > It's not only used to give more sustain thanks to one dodge. > > There is currently uses cases who used it : > > - Misha condi/boonclear mirage build. > > - Signets builds. > > > > In the case of misha build, it's all about synergy with the build : > > - It's used to F2 bursting when needed. > > - It's used to F3 boonclear/CCing when needed. > > - It's used to F4 when pressured. > > > > And this is because the build is based on a F2 burst and F3 boonclear. > > And of course the 3 uses cases barely happen at the same time, so basically when to reset one of shatter at the right time is what differentiate a good mesmer from a random. A player who rollface his 4 shatter, use signet, then rerollface his 4 shatters will be as usefull as a snail. > > This right moment to know what to reset at which time is one of the main reason why misha is in top 10 while the next mesmer is far away. > > Domination line, illusion line + no DE on his build explain why Signet of Illusion way more than one dodge. Which will not change with one or two dodges. > > Since when you become this bad in theorycraft ? > > > > In the case of signet build, it's mainly because signet of inspiration was destroyed. > > Trust me that I prefer way much a team signet like signet of inspiration was before being deleted than a self-effect signet who will just delay my death. > > > > > > > > > > You just seems like a inquisition fanatic : > > > > - You don't like someone, it's a sorcess, burn it ! => mesmer use something : it's low skill ceiling, nerf it ! > > > > > > > > Continue your crusade and brainwashing until mesmer has 90% dead things if you want, you just lose your time. > > > > > > Nonesense doesn't worth to be answered > > > > Yeah I know only reality hurt. <3 > > F1-3 reset will not be affected, those will even get a slightly lower cd and even less coutner by shorter cat time. The only problem with this Signet is the f4 reset (and that not only on Mirage) and when you get 2 dodges back that will not be mandatory to have anymore and you will get more freedom of choice to use other utilities instead. Atm every single Mirage build needes to use the Siget to even have a chance to survive, that can't be what you are happy with. I never think I will read a bravan post asking for reducing skill ceiling. BTW buff mes ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bravan.3876 Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 > @"viquing.8254" said: > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > > @"viquing.8254" said: > > > Sigh, how much clueless I will have to read today.... > > > > > > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > > > > > While Signet of Illusion is a low skill ceiling utility rewarding shatterspam and reduces punish for shatter cd wastes. > > > > > Ok at this moment, you just lose the few credibility I gave to you. > > > > > Did YOU really wrote this ? Like seriously ? Signet of illusion is low skill ceiling now ?! (You think 2 sec that some mes spamming shatter and signet can still win against someone ?) > > > > > Did you just know why SoIl is used currently ? > > > > > > > > It is mandatory to use now to compensate for the one dodge change what is a stupid nerf in the first place but giving Mirage 2 doges back + Signet in current form would be op post patch. If you deny that you cannot be taken serious. And there are only few ways to avoid Mirage being op with 2 dodges post patch: > > > > Either it keeps it one dodge and everything can stay as it is. Or you get your 2 dodges back but f4 gets somehow reworked and nerfed (either by a second trade off or a skill lock out) and i guess we both agree that those ways would be way worse than just excluding f4 reset from Signet what should be excluded in general, also on core, because it is simply too strong to have an complete invul skill on such short cd. Ppl even cry about that it needs a skill lock out. But as said try to keep the f4 reset on that Signet but you have to live with one dodge than or you will even get a way worse nerf to f4 in the future, i bet on it. > > > > > > No, you really don't get it. > > > It's not only used to give more sustain thanks to one dodge. > > > There is currently uses cases who used it : > > > - Misha condi/boonclear mirage build. > > > - Signets builds. > > > > > > In the case of misha build, it's all about synergy with the build : > > > - It's used to F2 bursting when needed. > > > - It's used to F3 boonclear/CCing when needed. > > > - It's used to F4 when pressured. > > > > > > And this is because the build is based on a F2 burst and F3 boonclear. > > > And of course the 3 uses cases barely happen at the same time, so basically when to reset one of shatter at the right time is what differentiate a good mesmer from a random. A player who rollface his 4 shatter, use signet, then rerollface his 4 shatters will be as usefull as a snail. > > > This right moment to know what to reset at which time is one of the main reason why misha is in top 10 while the next mesmer is far away. > > > Domination line, illusion line + no DE on his build explain why Signet of Illusion way more than one dodge. Which will not change with one or two dodges. > > > Since when you become this bad in theorycraft ? > > > > > > In the case of signet build, it's mainly because signet of inspiration was destroyed. > > > Trust me that I prefer way much a team signet like signet of inspiration was before being deleted than a self-effect signet who will just delay my death. > > > > > > > > > > > > > You just seems like a inquisition fanatic : > > > > > - You don't like someone, it's a sorcess, burn it ! => mesmer use something : it's low skill ceiling, nerf it ! > > > > > > > > > > Continue your crusade and brainwashing until mesmer has 90% dead things if you want, you just lose your time. > > > > > > > > Nonesense doesn't worth to be answered > > > > > > Yeah I know only reality hurt. <3 > > > > F1-3 reset will not be affected, those will even get a slightly lower cd and even less coutner by shorter cat time. The only problem with this Signet is the f4 reset (and that not only on Mirage) and when you get 2 dodges back that will not be mandatory to have anymore and you will get more freedom of choice to use other utilities instead. Atm every single Mirage build needes to use the Siget to even have a chance to survive, that can't be what you are happy with. > > I never think I will read a bravan post asking for reducing skill ceiling. > BTW buff mes ! I added some stuff to the previous post you quoted here but your response is so facepalm and far away from any understanding of what i said, it hurts. Keep your one dodge then and be limited in the need to use that Signet on every single Mirage build and only have one semi viable Mirage build anyway. Your choice! Also all classes got nerfed (some are still overperforming in sustain what hopefully will get adjusted soon too). You have to put a 2 dodge Mirage into post patch environment and i am telling you that a 2 dodge Mirage without any adjustments at other places will be op post patch, most likely even on power. While the f4 reset on Signet of Illusion is in general too strong, also on core. But with Mirage having only one dodge you cannot even change it atm because it would kill any Mirage build, means the only single one that is semi playable as a portal and debuff bot mostly depending on core abilities then rly being a Mirage with different playstyle from core. Even without f4 reset the Signet would be a good choice for Mishas build because of all the other synergy you described yourself (synergy with f2, f3 reset already), f4 reset is only needed because of only one dodge. And it limits the utility choice to zero choice because all 3 utilities are now mandatory on every single Mirage build, not only Mishas. But if you prefer current state then keep it. I don't care in the end. 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Leonidrex.5649 Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 > @"bravan.3876" said: > > @"viquing.8254" said: > > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > > > @"viquing.8254" said: > > > > Sigh, how much clueless I will have to read today.... > > > > > > > > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > > > > > > While Signet of Illusion is a low skill ceiling utility rewarding shatterspam and reduces punish for shatter cd wastes. > > > > > > Ok at this moment, you just lose the few credibility I gave to you. > > > > > > Did YOU really wrote this ? Like seriously ? Signet of illusion is low skill ceiling now ?! (You think 2 sec that some mes spamming shatter and signet can still win against someone ?) > > > > > > Did you just know why SoIl is used currently ? > > > > > > > > > > It is mandatory to use now to compensate for the one dodge change what is a stupid nerf in the first place but giving Mirage 2 doges back + Signet in current form would be op post patch. If you deny that you cannot be taken serious. And there are only few ways to avoid Mirage being op with 2 dodges post patch: > > > > > Either it keeps it one dodge and everything can stay as it is. Or you get your 2 dodges back but f4 gets somehow reworked and nerfed (either by a second trade off or a skill lock out) and i guess we both agree that those ways would be way worse than just excluding f4 reset from Signet what should be excluded in general, also on core, because it is simply too strong to have an complete invul skill on such short cd. Ppl even cry about that it needs a skill lock out. But as said try to keep the f4 reset on that Signet but you have to live with one dodge than or you will even get a way worse nerf to f4 in the future, i bet on it. > > > > > > > > No, you really don't get it. > > > > It's not only used to give more sustain thanks to one dodge. > > > > There is currently uses cases who used it : > > > > - Misha condi/boonclear mirage build. > > > > - Signets builds. > > > > > > > > In the case of misha build, it's all about synergy with the build : > > > > - It's used to F2 bursting when needed. > > > > - It's used to F3 boonclear/CCing when needed. > > > > - It's used to F4 when pressured. > > > > > > > > And this is because the build is based on a F2 burst and F3 boonclear. > > > > And of course the 3 uses cases barely happen at the same time, so basically when to reset one of shatter at the right time is what differentiate a good mesmer from a random. A player who rollface his 4 shatter, use signet, then rerollface his 4 shatters will be as usefull as a snail. > > > > This right moment to know what to reset at which time is one of the main reason why misha is in top 10 while the next mesmer is far away. > > > > Domination line, illusion line + no DE on his build explain why Signet of Illusion way more than one dodge. Which will not change with one or two dodges. > > > > Since when you become this bad in theorycraft ? > > > > > > > > In the case of signet build, it's mainly because signet of inspiration was destroyed. > > > > Trust me that I prefer way much a team signet like signet of inspiration was before being deleted than a self-effect signet who will just delay my death. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You just seems like a inquisition fanatic : > > > > > > - You don't like someone, it's a sorcess, burn it ! => mesmer use something : it's low skill ceiling, nerf it ! > > > > > > > > > > > > Continue your crusade and brainwashing until mesmer has 90% dead things if you want, you just lose your time. > > > > > > > > > > Nonesense doesn't worth to be answered > > > > > > > > Yeah I know only reality hurt. <3 > > > > > > F1-3 reset will not be affected, those will even get a slightly lower cd and even less coutner by shorter cat time. The only problem with this Signet is the f4 reset (and that not only on Mirage) and when you get 2 dodges back that will not be mandatory to have anymore and you will get more freedom of choice to use other utilities instead. Atm every single Mirage build needes to use the Siget to even have a chance to survive, that can't be what you are happy with. > > > > I never think I will read a bravan post asking for reducing skill ceiling. > > BTW buff mes ! > > I added some stuff to the previous post you quoted here but your response is so facepalm and far away from any understanding of what i said, it hurts. > Keep your one dodge then and be limited in the need to use that Signet on every single Mirage build and only have one semi viable Mirage build anyway. Your choice! > > Also all classes got nerfed (some are still overperfroming in sustain what hopefully will get adjusted soon too). You have to put a 2 dodge Mirage into post patch environment and i am telling you that a 2 dodge Mirage without any adjustments at other places will be op post patch, most likely even on power. While the f4 reset on Signet of Illusion is in general too strong, also on core. But with Mirage having only one dodge you cannot even change it atm because it would kill any Mirage build, means the only single one that is semi playable as a portal and debuff bot mostyl depending on core abilities then rly being a Mirage with different playstyle from core. If oyu prefer current state then keep it. I don't care in the end. switch soi for IA and see how good you can do, this is mesmer without signet and 2 dodges Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bravan.3876 Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > > @"viquing.8254" said: > > > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > > > > @"viquing.8254" said: > > > > > Sigh, how much clueless I will have to read today.... > > > > > > > > > > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > > > > > > > While Signet of Illusion is a low skill ceiling utility rewarding shatterspam and reduces punish for shatter cd wastes. > > > > > > > Ok at this moment, you just lose the few credibility I gave to you. > > > > > > > Did YOU really wrote this ? Like seriously ? Signet of illusion is low skill ceiling now ?! (You think 2 sec that some mes spamming shatter and signet can still win against someone ?) > > > > > > > Did you just know why SoIl is used currently ? > > > > > > > > > > > > It is mandatory to use now to compensate for the one dodge change what is a stupid nerf in the first place but giving Mirage 2 doges back + Signet in current form would be op post patch. If you deny that you cannot be taken serious. And there are only few ways to avoid Mirage being op with 2 dodges post patch: > > > > > > Either it keeps it one dodge and everything can stay as it is. Or you get your 2 dodges back but f4 gets somehow reworked and nerfed (either by a second trade off or a skill lock out) and i guess we both agree that those ways would be way worse than just excluding f4 reset from Signet what should be excluded in general, also on core, because it is simply too strong to have an complete invul skill on such short cd. Ppl even cry about that it needs a skill lock out. But as said try to keep the f4 reset on that Signet but you have to live with one dodge than or you will even get a way worse nerf to f4 in the future, i bet on it. > > > > > > > > > > No, you really don't get it. > > > > > It's not only used to give more sustain thanks to one dodge. > > > > > There is currently uses cases who used it : > > > > > - Misha condi/boonclear mirage build. > > > > > - Signets builds. > > > > > > > > > > In the case of misha build, it's all about synergy with the build : > > > > > - It's used to F2 bursting when needed. > > > > > - It's used to F3 boonclear/CCing when needed. > > > > > - It's used to F4 when pressured. > > > > > > > > > > And this is because the build is based on a F2 burst and F3 boonclear. > > > > > And of course the 3 uses cases barely happen at the same time, so basically when to reset one of shatter at the right time is what differentiate a good mesmer from a random. A player who rollface his 4 shatter, use signet, then rerollface his 4 shatters will be as usefull as a snail. > > > > > This right moment to know what to reset at which time is one of the main reason why misha is in top 10 while the next mesmer is far away. > > > > > Domination line, illusion line + no DE on his build explain why Signet of Illusion way more than one dodge. Which will not change with one or two dodges. > > > > > Since when you become this bad in theorycraft ? > > > > > > > > > > In the case of signet build, it's mainly because signet of inspiration was destroyed. > > > > > Trust me that I prefer way much a team signet like signet of inspiration was before being deleted than a self-effect signet who will just delay my death. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You just seems like a inquisition fanatic : > > > > > > > - You don't like someone, it's a sorcess, burn it ! => mesmer use something : it's low skill ceiling, nerf it ! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Continue your crusade and brainwashing until mesmer has 90% dead things if you want, you just lose your time. > > > > > > > > > > > > Nonesense doesn't worth to be answered > > > > > > > > > > Yeah I know only reality hurt. <3 > > > > > > > > F1-3 reset will not be affected, those will even get a slightly lower cd and even less coutner by shorter cat time. The only problem with this Signet is the f4 reset (and that not only on Mirage) and when you get 2 dodges back that will not be mandatory to have anymore and you will get more freedom of choice to use other utilities instead. Atm every single Mirage build needes to use the Siget to even have a chance to survive, that can't be what you are happy with. > > > > > > I never think I will read a bravan post asking for reducing skill ceiling. > > > BTW buff mes ! > > > > I added some stuff to the previous post you quoted here but your response is so facepalm and far away from any understanding of what i said, it hurts. > > Keep your one dodge then and be limited in the need to use that Signet on every single Mirage build and only have one semi viable Mirage build anyway. Your choice! > > > > Also all classes got nerfed (some are still overperfroming in sustain what hopefully will get adjusted soon too). You have to put a 2 dodge Mirage into post patch environment and i am telling you that a 2 dodge Mirage without any adjustments at other places will be op post patch, most likely even on power. While the f4 reset on Signet of Illusion is in general too strong, also on core. But with Mirage having only one dodge you cannot even change it atm because it would kill any Mirage build, means the only single one that is semi playable as a portal and debuff bot mostyl depending on core abilities then rly being a Mirage with different playstyle from core. If oyu prefer current state then keep it. I don't care in the end. > > switch soi for IA and see how good you can do, this is mesmer without signet and 2 dodges Not true, IA doesn't compensate for an endurance dodge. Neither does it trigger dodge traits like DE nor does it include player controlled movement like an endurance dodge. It adds other stuff in return but that is still not comparable, also it has higher cd than a normal dodge because of the other stuff it adds (like retargeting). Even Sand Through Glass would be a better replacement for a test but that is also not a comparable skill to replace an endurance dodge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viquing.8254 Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 > @"bravan.3876" said: > > @"viquing.8254" said: > > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > > > @"viquing.8254" said: > > > > Sigh, how much clueless I will have to read today.... > > > > > > > > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > > > > > > While Signet of Illusion is a low skill ceiling utility rewarding shatterspam and reduces punish for shatter cd wastes. > > > > > > Ok at this moment, you just lose the few credibility I gave to you. > > > > > > Did YOU really wrote this ? Like seriously ? Signet of illusion is low skill ceiling now ?! (You think 2 sec that some mes spamming shatter and signet can still win against someone ?) > > > > > > Did you just know why SoIl is used currently ? > > > > > > > > > > It is mandatory to use now to compensate for the one dodge change what is a stupid nerf in the first place but giving Mirage 2 doges back + Signet in current form would be op post patch. If you deny that you cannot be taken serious. And there are only few ways to avoid Mirage being op with 2 dodges post patch: > > > > > Either it keeps it one dodge and everything can stay as it is. Or you get your 2 dodges back but f4 gets somehow reworked and nerfed (either by a second trade off or a skill lock out) and i guess we both agree that those ways would be way worse than just excluding f4 reset from Signet what should be excluded in general, also on core, because it is simply too strong to have an complete invul skill on such short cd. Ppl even cry about that it needs a skill lock out. But as said try to keep the f4 reset on that Signet but you have to live with one dodge than or you will even get a way worse nerf to f4 in the future, i bet on it. > > > > > > > > No, you really don't get it. > > > > It's not only used to give more sustain thanks to one dodge. > > > > There is currently uses cases who used it : > > > > - Misha condi/boonclear mirage build. > > > > - Signets builds. > > > > > > > > In the case of misha build, it's all about synergy with the build : > > > > - It's used to F2 bursting when needed. > > > > - It's used to F3 boonclear/CCing when needed. > > > > - It's used to F4 when pressured. > > > > > > > > And this is because the build is based on a F2 burst and F3 boonclear. > > > > And of course the 3 uses cases barely happen at the same time, so basically when to reset one of shatter at the right time is what differentiate a good mesmer from a random. A player who rollface his 4 shatter, use signet, then rerollface his 4 shatters will be as usefull as a snail. > > > > This right moment to know what to reset at which time is one of the main reason why misha is in top 10 while the next mesmer is far away. > > > > Domination line, illusion line + no DE on his build explain why Signet of Illusion way more than one dodge. Which will not change with one or two dodges. > > > > Since when you become this bad in theorycraft ? > > > > > > > > In the case of signet build, it's mainly because signet of inspiration was destroyed. > > > > Trust me that I prefer way much a team signet like signet of inspiration was before being deleted than a self-effect signet who will just delay my death. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You just seems like a inquisition fanatic : > > > > > > - You don't like someone, it's a sorcess, burn it ! => mesmer use something : it's low skill ceiling, nerf it ! > > > > > > > > > > > > Continue your crusade and brainwashing until mesmer has 90% dead things if you want, you just lose your time. > > > > > > > > > > Nonesense doesn't worth to be answered > > > > > > > > Yeah I know only reality hurt. <3 > > > > > > F1-3 reset will not be affected, those will even get a slightly lower cd and even less coutner by shorter cat time. The only problem with this Signet is the f4 reset (and that not only on Mirage) and when you get 2 dodges back that will not be mandatory to have anymore and you will get more freedom of choice to use other utilities instead. Atm every single Mirage build needes to use the Siget to even have a chance to survive, that can't be what you are happy with. > > > > I never think I will read a bravan post asking for reducing skill ceiling. > > BTW buff mes ! > > I added some stuff to the previous post you quoted here but your response is so facepalm and far away from any understanding of what i said, it hurts. > Keep your one dodge then and be limited in the need to use that Signet on every single Mirage build and only have one semi viable Mirage build anyway. Your choice! > > Also all classes got nerfed (some are still overperforming in sustain what hopefully will get adjusted soon too). You have to put a 2 dodge Mirage into post patch environment and i am telling you that a 2 dodge Mirage without any adjustments at other places will be op post patch, most likely even on power. While the f4 reset on Signet of Illusion is in general too strong, also on core. But with Mirage having only one dodge you cannot even change it atm because it would kill any Mirage build, means the only single one that is semi playable as a portal and debuff bot mostly depending on core abilities then rly being a Mirage with different playstyle from core. Even without f4 reset the Signet would be a good choice for Mishas build because of all the other synergy you described yourself (synergy with f2, f3 reset already), f4 reset is only needed because of only one dodge. And it limits the utility choice to zero choice because all 3 utilities are now mandatory on every single Mirage build, not only Mishas. But if you prefer current state then keep it. I don't care in the end. Ok let's go for another 2 pages blocks of yes/no. No, if you put 2 dodge mirage back, SoIl will not be used as long as DE is taken and the gameplay is around IH like it always been. No the F4 reset on SoI ins't too strong it is/was barely used in core with the exception of signets builds but it's because of SoInspiration deletion. Doubling a F4 which mean lose point contribution, generaly only sustain because you use your clones for it so you cannot burst directly after. which in the most cases just delay your dead. it's clearly not op. At best it's furstrating to the poor opponent who has to kill the mes in 30 sec instead of 15 sec... You reduce a skill who is used to 3 situations to 2 choices => you reduce skill ceiling = > QED. > every single Mirage build Yeah, now we have plethora of mirages builds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bravan.3876 Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 > @"viquing.8254" said: > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > > @"viquing.8254" said: > > > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > > > > @"viquing.8254" said: > > > > > Sigh, how much clueless I will have to read today.... > > > > > > > > > > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > > > > > > > While Signet of Illusion is a low skill ceiling utility rewarding shatterspam and reduces punish for shatter cd wastes. > > > > > > > Ok at this moment, you just lose the few credibility I gave to you. > > > > > > > Did YOU really wrote this ? Like seriously ? Signet of illusion is low skill ceiling now ?! (You think 2 sec that some mes spamming shatter and signet can still win against someone ?) > > > > > > > Did you just know why SoIl is used currently ? > > > > > > > > > > > > It is mandatory to use now to compensate for the one dodge change what is a stupid nerf in the first place but giving Mirage 2 doges back + Signet in current form would be op post patch. If you deny that you cannot be taken serious. And there are only few ways to avoid Mirage being op with 2 dodges post patch: > > > > > > Either it keeps it one dodge and everything can stay as it is. Or you get your 2 dodges back but f4 gets somehow reworked and nerfed (either by a second trade off or a skill lock out) and i guess we both agree that those ways would be way worse than just excluding f4 reset from Signet what should be excluded in general, also on core, because it is simply too strong to have an complete invul skill on such short cd. Ppl even cry about that it needs a skill lock out. But as said try to keep the f4 reset on that Signet but you have to live with one dodge than or you will even get a way worse nerf to f4 in the future, i bet on it. > > > > > > > > > > No, you really don't get it. > > > > > It's not only used to give more sustain thanks to one dodge. > > > > > There is currently uses cases who used it : > > > > > - Misha condi/boonclear mirage build. > > > > > - Signets builds. > > > > > > > > > > In the case of misha build, it's all about synergy with the build : > > > > > - It's used to F2 bursting when needed. > > > > > - It's used to F3 boonclear/CCing when needed. > > > > > - It's used to F4 when pressured. > > > > > > > > > > And this is because the build is based on a F2 burst and F3 boonclear. > > > > > And of course the 3 uses cases barely happen at the same time, so basically when to reset one of shatter at the right time is what differentiate a good mesmer from a random. A player who rollface his 4 shatter, use signet, then rerollface his 4 shatters will be as usefull as a snail. > > > > > This right moment to know what to reset at which time is one of the main reason why misha is in top 10 while the next mesmer is far away. > > > > > Domination line, illusion line + no DE on his build explain why Signet of Illusion way more than one dodge. Which will not change with one or two dodges. > > > > > Since when you become this bad in theorycraft ? > > > > > > > > > > In the case of signet build, it's mainly because signet of inspiration was destroyed. > > > > > Trust me that I prefer way much a team signet like signet of inspiration was before being deleted than a self-effect signet who will just delay my death. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You just seems like a inquisition fanatic : > > > > > > > - You don't like someone, it's a sorcess, burn it ! => mesmer use something : it's low skill ceiling, nerf it ! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Continue your crusade and brainwashing until mesmer has 90% dead things if you want, you just lose your time. > > > > > > > > > > > > Nonesense doesn't worth to be answered > > > > > > > > > > Yeah I know only reality hurt. <3 > > > > > > > > F1-3 reset will not be affected, those will even get a slightly lower cd and even less coutner by shorter cat time. The only problem with this Signet is the f4 reset (and that not only on Mirage) and when you get 2 dodges back that will not be mandatory to have anymore and you will get more freedom of choice to use other utilities instead. Atm every single Mirage build needes to use the Siget to even have a chance to survive, that can't be what you are happy with. > > > > > > I never think I will read a bravan post asking for reducing skill ceiling. > > > BTW buff mes ! > > > > I added some stuff to the previous post you quoted here but your response is so facepalm and far away from any understanding of what i said, it hurts. > > Keep your one dodge then and be limited in the need to use that Signet on every single Mirage build and only have one semi viable Mirage build anyway. Your choice! > > > > Also all classes got nerfed (some are still overperforming in sustain what hopefully will get adjusted soon too). You have to put a 2 dodge Mirage into post patch environment and i am telling you that a 2 dodge Mirage without any adjustments at other places will be op post patch, most likely even on power. While the f4 reset on Signet of Illusion is in general too strong, also on core. But with Mirage having only one dodge you cannot even change it atm because it would kill any Mirage build, means the only single one that is semi playable as a portal and debuff bot mostly depending on core abilities then rly being a Mirage with different playstyle from core. Even without f4 reset the Signet would be a good choice for Mishas build because of all the other synergy you described yourself (synergy with f2, f3 reset already), f4 reset is only needed because of only one dodge. And it limits the utility choice to zero choice because all 3 utilities are now mandatory on every single Mirage build, not only Mishas. But if you prefer current state then keep it. I don't care in the end. > > Ok let's go for another 2 pages blocks of yes/no. > > No, if you put 2 dodge mirage back, SoIl will not be used as long as DE is taken and the gameplay is around IH like it always been. > No the F4 reset on SoI ins't too strong it was barely used in core with the exception of signets builds but it's because of SoInspiration deletion. Doubling a F4 which mean lose point contribution, generaly only sustain because you use your clones for it so you cannot burst directly after, which in the moste case just delay your dead it clearly not op. At best it's furstrating to the poor opponent who has to kill the mes in 30 sec instead of 15 sec... > You reduce a skill who is used to 3 situations to 2 choices => you reduce skill ceiling = > QED. > > every single Mirage build > Yeah, now we have plethora of mirages builds. > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > @"bravan.3876" lol, you are asking us if we want our right or left leg broken, i want 2 functional legs thank you very much, and I aint paying untill thats done. > > > > > > > > You still don't understand that your balance suggestion to IH dumbs it down and break a leg from Mirage. You also don't get that the one dodge change is the only reason you are forced into using that broken Singet in the first place. If you get 2 dodges back you get both legs back and the freedom to choose another utility than a broken Singet should not exist in its current state. I even said for Odik, that it can get a little cd reduction and a little reduction in cast time as compensation to make it not a dead utility, still useful just not as broken as it is now and for certain less mandatory to use. But if you guys prefer to have only one dodge and being pressured in using this broken and low skill ceiling Signet on every single Mirage build then why do i even care. > > > > > > > > If you Mesmer mains think that you can just get 2 dodges back and nothing else needs to be adjusted to make Mirage on power and condi not op compared to other classes post patch and based on having 2 dodges again, then there is no basic to discuss, that is too delusional. > > > > > > 4s invlun>extra dodge > > > if you dont get that they I dont know what to tell you, even with 2 dodges mirage would still be forced to take soi to survive, thx for nerfing all sustain and evasion from staff/scept/axe, but you dont get it and you refuse to accept it > > > > That is not true, with 2 dodges even Powermirage was able to choose another utility over Signet. > > lol No clue what you are talking Viquing, you just told me few days ago how you got Plat 3 with a Powermirage build even pre patch not using Signet of Illusion but Illusion of Life instead. Maybe tell Leonidrex about it. And again: That something didn't get used in core days doesn't mean it was not op or that it was weak, it just means there were builds better, which had better synergies to other stuff. The Signet should not have f4 reset included since game release. And a 2 dodge Mirage in post patch state of other classes being nerfed in dmg and sustain too, doesn't need the f4 reset to survive, just as it was not needed pre patch with 2 dodges. And that you even proved yourself Viquing rofl. Viquing you are the one arguing for current state and being happy with only one semi viable build that is not even based on Mirage mechancis to do any dmg or debuff. It is more a core Mesmer than a Mirage. It is viable because it literally AVOIDS Mirage mechanics as much as possible because they are overnerfed with the one dodge change. You want to keep the current state so don't complain about only having one build. I just gave you balance suggestion to make more Mirage builds an at least semi viable choice again. But you prefer to avoid any change even when it all together is more a bufff when getting 2 dodges back. And when you get more freedom in choice of utilities again, just as it was pre patch. And when you get useful utility condi ambushes you can active and tactical work with instead this overnerfed and useless IH passive condi clone dmg spam crap we have atm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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