Aesa.4819 Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 > I dont know about you, mate, but Demonic Lore still gives 1 stack of burning for me. As I said, I was not the best scourge ever, I was pullin 32-34k on the dummy and now I am pulling 21k. Definitely a huge nerf, i saw a huge damage nerf in fractals, too, so I dont know how you are getting the same numbers. Oh, you're right. I noticed what the problem was:P forgot that sun spirit was nearby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drekor.5217 Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 > @Lunarlife.5128 said: > Does this affect WvW at all? > PvE means that fractals/raids will be lower but open world should be fine? > > Also your comment is hilarious. Doesn't really affect WvW or sPvP at all... it will be a small damage nerf when standing on your sand savant but really that's not a huge deal. PvE will take a hit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squallaus.8321 Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 Dhuumfire should definitely pulse 7 times with sand shade because the shades attack 7 times when sandshade is activated. This is akin to the necromancer going into shroud and using button1 7 times. If the enemy is stupid enough to stand there idle and take all 7 hits he should get 7 stacks of bunring. If multiple shades over lap the same target, the effects should only be applied once to that target. Anet fix this bug already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squallaus.8321 Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 > @Aravind.9610 said: > > @Amenon.9126 said: > > Yes, but Desert shorud is supposed to pulse 7 times, yea? So I would think F1 should pulse 7 times as well, which it does not. Clearly a bug, that will probably take another 6 months to fix. > > According to Anet the skill description on f1 is "whenever you use a shade skill" not "whenever you deal damage with a shade skill". > Although an easier fix for PvE would have been simply to change the skill description instead of ruining the entire spec, But that's only half of the full quote. The full quote says "Whenever you use a shade skill, you and your sand shade strikes nearby enemies." As we all know sand shade gets the shades that you manifest to strike 7 times. Dhuumfire trait always has been traditionally triggered on a per hit basis. Same with unyielding blast and reaper's might. So logic should follow that Dhuumfire should be triggered per pulse for sand shade. Again, anet fix this bug please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savacli.8172 Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 Shroud 5 was in a weird state because the shroud is actually only applied to the Necro and he does his little pulse effect. While that's going on each of the shades would invoke the passive damage effect of Manifest Sand Shade 7 times. So you would have a total of 7 Shroud hits and 7 casts Manifest Sand Shade pulses across your shades. Thus you would have 7 Dhuumfires. From the looks of it Shroud 5 only invokes Manifest Sand Shade once on cast and the pulsing effect only applies to the Necro. So you only ever get 1 cast of Manifest Sand Shade and its inherited traits once. Thus the Shades are just sitting there looking pretty. Haven't tested it myself, but looking around at the forums this looks to be the new behavior Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squallaus.8321 Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 > @savacli.8172 said: > Shroud 5 was in a weird state because the shroud is actually only applied to the Necro and he does his little pulse effect. While that's going on each of the shades would invoke the passive damage effect of Manifest Sand Shade 7 times. So you would have a total of 7 Shroud hits and 7 casts Manifest Sand Shade pulses across your shades. Thus you would have 7 Dhuumfires. From the looks of it Shroud 5 only invokes Manifest Sand Shade once on cast and the pulsing effect only applies to the Necro. So you only ever get 1 cast of Manifest Sand Shade and its inherited traits once. Thus the Shades are just sitting there looking pretty. Haven't tested it myself, but looking around at the forums this looks to be the new behavior Incorrect. Pulsing effect infact applies to shades AND the necro. Go test it right now if you don't believe me. Therefore dhummfire should apply 7 times to targets the shades hit; once per hit. Are you really a necro player? The problem before the patch was that if there was over lap between shades and necro, the effects would apply multiple times to targets in the overlap. They got rid of this which is fine. But in doing so they also got rid of dhummfire not being applied when the pulses from the shades and the necro hitting the targets for Desert Shroud. THIS should be a bug! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savacli.8172 Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 > @squallaus.8321 said: > Incorrect. Pulsing effect infact applies to shades AND the necro. Go test it right now if you don't believe me. > Are you really a necro player? > The problem before the patch was that if there was over lap between shades and necro, the effects would apply multiple times. They got rid of this, but in doing so they also got rid of dhummfire not being applied when the pulses from the shades and the necro hitting the targets. THIS should be a bug! > @savacli.8172 said: > Haven't tested it myself, but looking around at the forums this looks to be the new behavior Like I said, I haven't tested it since I have this thing called "not at my computer". Hence the disclaimer on my last post. Anyways... The question now though is what are the shades pulsing? If they're pulsing the shroud effect that was originally only on the necro then it makes sense that inherited Shroud 1 traits aren't being proc'd after the initial Shroud 5 cast. However, if the shades are still casting the damaging portion of MSS while the Necro is pulsing the unique shroud, then yeah, that's definitely a bug as each of those 7 pulses should be 7 individual MSS casts. At best, a target would be affected by the Necro's Shroud 7 times as well as MSS 7 times. At worst, both shades and necros are now inflicting the shroud pulse which cannot overlap so you only have 7 hits of the shroud pulse. Again, Shroud 5 had been a topic of controversy because the tooltip wasn't very detailed on what the skill was doing. The implication was that the Necro and Shades were pulsing the same skill, though in reality, the Necro had the unique pulse while the shades were just MSS-ing. So, there was indeed a bug fix to make sure that Shroud skills don't overlap, but the intended behavior of the skill is still up in the air since the tooltip only describes the attack as a "pulsing necrotic energy around you and your Sand Shades" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squallaus.8321 Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 > @savacli.8172 said: > Like I said, I haven't tested it since I have this thing called "not at my computer". Hence the disclaimer on my last post. > > Anyways... > > The question now though is what are the shades pulsing? If they're pulsing the shroud effect that was originally only on the necro then it makes sense that inherited Shroud 1 traits aren't being proc'd after the initial Shroud 5 cast. However, if the shades are still casting the damaging portion of MSS while the Necro is pulsing the unique shroud, then yeah, that's definitely a bug as each of those 7 pulses should be 7 individual MSS casts. Now it pulses torment as per tooltip. This I agree with. But only activate dhummfire on the first pulse. Which I do not agree with. Before the patch, shades didn't pulse torment, the necro did. Now after the patch both necro and shades pulse torment. But they do not stack for targets overlapping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savacli.8172 Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 > @squallaus.8321 said: > Now it pulses torment as per tooltip. This I agree with. But only activate dhummfire on the first pulse. Which I do not agree with. > > Before the patch, shades didn't pulse torment, the necro did. Now after the patch both necro and shades pulse torment. But they do not stack for targets overlapping. It's not that they pulsed torment as a result of the skill, but torment (along with other inherited Shroud 1 traits) came from the shades casting MSS on each pulse for the duration of the skill. Hence being able to rack up all that torment, cripple, and vulnerability. Dhuumfire and Reaper's Might were still tied to individual casts rather than strike is why their stacks didn't go up as high as the three conditions mentioned beforehand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squallaus.8321 Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 > @savacli.8172 said: > > @squallaus.8321 said: > > Now it pulses torment as per tooltip. This I agree with. But only activate dhummfire on the first pulse. Which I do not agree with. > > > > Before the patch, shades didn't pulse torment, the necro did. Now after the patch both necro and shades pulse torment. But they do not stack for targets overlapping. > > It's not that they pulsed torment as a result of the skill, but torment (along with other inherited Shroud 1 traits) came from the shades casting MSS on each pulse for the duration of the skill. Hence being able to rack up all that torment, cripple, and vulnerability. Dhuumfire and Reaper's Might were still tied to individual casts rather than strike is why their stacks didn't go up as high as the three conditions mentioned beforehand. > > No the torment pulse is because of the skill F5 now. it only proc MSS on the first pulse... that's why dhummfire not working from 2nd pulse onwards....... from 2nd pulse onwards the shades and necro only pulse torment as per tooltip for F5 skill.... Again dhummfire has always procced on per hit. This really should be a bug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savacli.8172 Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 > @squallaus.8321 said: > No the torment pulse is because of the skill F5 now. it only proc MSS on the first pulse... that's why dhummfire not working from 2nd pulse onwards....... from 2nd pulse onwards the shades and necro only pulse torment as per tooltip for F5 skill.... > Again dhummfire has always procced on per hit. This really should be a bug. /headdesk Note that I'm using past tense in my posts. As in that's how the behavior of the skill **used** to be. Today's patch changed two things: **Manifest Sand Shade: Fixed a bug that allowed strikes from this skill to hit from multiple sand shades on the same target.** That makes sense; no overlapping. Also brings it in line with the rest of the Shroud 2-5 skills since the immediate effects of those skills originally didn't overlap either. No bug here, just disgruntled players. **Desert Shroud: Fixed a bug that was preventing this skill from processing Manifest Sand Shade upon casting** In theory, this makes sense. The implication here being that Shroud 5 wasn't casting MSS. Thus, the bug fix would mean that casting Shroud 5 Solo now procs MSS when it previously did. The part that's unclear is still the "necrotic energy part". If the Shades were incorrectly casting MSS as their "necrotic energy" portion of the skill then that explains the dhuumfire stacks. If the skill was normalized so that Necro and Shades now all have a Shroud then there's no bug here as the skill has been reworked to only 1 cast of MSS (on the initial toggling of F5) instead of the previous 7 (a result of the "buggy" pulsing effect). Bug or not, there was definitely more to this particular bug fix than is explained in the patch notes since all it should have done was add a corrected cast of MSS but otherwise left the behavior of the skill alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lexan.5930 Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 > @SidewayS.3789 said: > Necromancer > * Manifest Sand Shade: Fixed a bug that allowed strikes from this skill to hit from multiple sand shades on the same target. > * Desert Shroud: Fixed a bug that was preventing this skill from processing Manifest Sand Shade upon casting. > > > Now let's see how far we fell from the first spot.And i'm talking about PvE. i feel like the manifest sand shade bug fix actually broke the skill. the note says "fixed a bug that was _**PREVENTING**_ this skill from processing manifest sand shade upon casting. it seems like to them desert shroud wasn;t processing shade attack and now should, unless by processing they meen that the numbers and conditions are suppose to bypass manifest sand shade attack and only do the effect we trigger. Which would mean that dhumfire is useless for scourge. time to look into my power scourge build for cleave and barrier and might gen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vicious.5683 Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 Necromancer having good dps was a bug. We all knew that. THIS is exactly why I didn't buy PoF. This nerf was the natural course of nature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragoth.7153 Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 That's it. Anet won't get a single penny from me. Now we don't have shroud AND damage. I suggest to spam all other class subforums (that deal more than scourge) as they did to us. Nerf druid because it heals. Nerf chrono because it's OP. Nerf ele because it deal top dmg and nobody care. Nerf firebrand into oblivion because it should be support. Nerf deadeye more because why not. Nerf renegade because it makes rev usefull. Let's spam the kittens out of this forum! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lexan.5930 Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 pof is awesome for story but yea this nerf to dhuumfire feels way too much and i hope was unintended, but we might not hear from the devs about it for a while. makes the soul reaping line for scourge almost useless because those "amazing" GM traits we're supposed to have are all meh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squallaus.8321 Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 > @Lexan.5930 said: > pof is awesome for story but yea this nerf to dhuumfire feels way too much and i hope was unintended, but we might not hear from the devs about it for a while. makes the soul reaping line for scourge almost useless because those "amazing" GM traits we're supposed to have are all meh It really makes no sense. While u are inside shroud u can apply dhummfire by pressing 1 and using that 1 does not cost you life force only the life force degeneration cost LF. Now we have F5 that cost a lot of LF to execute multiple hits to the enemy, but the amazing grand master trait gets reduced to 1 hit........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lexan.5930 Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 > @squallaus.8321 said: > > @Lexan.5930 said: > > pof is awesome for story but yea this nerf to dhuumfire feels way too much and i hope was unintended, but we might not hear from the devs about it for a while. makes the soul reaping line for scourge almost useless because those "amazing" GM traits we're supposed to have are all meh > > It really makes no sense. While u are inside shroud u can apply dhummfire by pressing 1 and using that 1 does not cost you life force only the life force degeneration cost LF. Now we have F5 that cost a lot of LF to execute multiple hits to the enemy, but the amazing grand master trait gets reduced to 1 hit........ > oh i completely agree. It doesn't make sense at all. Especially because the damage numbers for manifest sand shade is so low. I thought that was the point, that the F1 shade basic attack was low damage but would proc all our shroud skills but not be the source of damage rather than in reaper or even core necro where shroud skill 1 does a good chunk of damage. i feel like its a bug and they issolated something to remove stacking effects but in the same time prevented the shade from attacking the target at all. maybe its a parse error, where the game only lets a single target get attacked by 1 shade auto attack once per individual shade in a period of time and the code doesn;t let each attack register as a new shade attack but the same attack and shade and the time coefficient doesn;t change so that the new shade attacks done happen. or else yea, why even have "shroud skill 1 procs ____ effect" work for scourge at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vitali.5039 Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 I guess that fixing scourge's PvP prowess via ammoless sand savant to prevent f5 abuses was too hard. Better destroy the dps and keep spamming corrupting-sand shades with sand savant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeftheWicked.3076 Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 > @Oldirtbeard.9834 said: > Nothing about Power Reaper, I guess we don't exist. What are those again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldirtbeard.9834 Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 > @ZeftheWicked.3076 said: > > @Oldirtbeard.9834 said: > > Nothing about Power Reaper, I guess we don't exist. > > What are those again? People like me that obstinately play what we want and try to stab the META in the eye any chance we get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now