Fix Winds of Disenchantment on PVE

[Tchurrul.3902]

I had not touched my Spellbreaker for a while and I'm so disappointed with what they did with WoD. It has become a useless skill on PVE. I understand the cahnges being made on the PvP/WvW mode to make it more balanced, require more skill to use, but the PVE version was already very situtional and used in a few raids and fractals, now it's uselss. You, as a dps class, has to stop dmg'ng for more than 5seconds so you can channel the ability. There is no point in bringing a spellbreaker if other classes can remove boons while doing other things.

 

Why play spellbreaker on pve after all?

I mean, the class requires high skill and knowledge of fights to maximize dmg, even if you have such skill, your dps will still be lower than most classes. The ONE THING it could do - yes, one thing, since to maintain dmg we can't bring banners - was to remove boons on bosses while still bringing decent dmg and cc and they have taken that away.

 

It's a fun but not rewarding class.

Please, revert the changes on WoD on PVE so it's not a channeling skill anymore and buff the spellbreaker's dmg a bit!

[Kodama.6453]

I don't think spellbreaker is supposed to be a dps spec in the first place.

 

Think about it, why should Anet give warrior 2 dps focused specs in a row? It doesn't make sense, since if both specs are primarily focused on dps, then it's just the one with the higher dps picked all the time and the other completely neglected.

 

Spellbreaker is a bruiser elite spec, like daredevil or scrapper. The spec is supposed to bring good (not great like dps specs like holosmith or berserker) dps, added defense, and stunlock.

The problem here is.... these bruiser specs are basically filling the role of "tanks" in this game. But almost no content in this game at all requires that role.

 

Scrapper and daredevil have the same problem like spellbreaker. They are supposed to provide great personal survival tools, but the game simply doesn't really call for it.

And what happens if they are tanky specs but tankiness is not needed? The specs will migrate into another playstyle that actually **is** needed and they can at least kinda fulfill. Mostly the only needed roles are dps and support (healing + boonshare).

 

Scrapper is used as a support in builds, even if the trait line and weapon **have no support value**. Because scrapper is not designed as a support in the first place, it is a bruiser. However, since gyros add some supportive features (rez on function gyro, damage reduction and projectile block on bulwark gyro) and engineer just has 2 support specs in core (inventions + alchemy), it is used in the third slot. Also scrapper avoids the competition with holosmith, which just outshines scrapper when it comes to dps.

 

Daredevil is used in dps builds, since the staff can provide good damage with auto attacks and brings some utility for the group by having a good reflec uptime.

It will compete with deadeye for dps builds, since that elite spec is thief's **actual** dps elite spec. It seems that deadeye doesn't outshine daredevil, tho. Which could mean there also is a problem with deadeye in PvE. And thieves can't realistically play support, so daredevil can't migrate in that role.

 

Spellbreaker is also used in dps builds, because warrior can't realistically support. And it also has to compete with berserker, the true dps spec of the warrior. And berserker really outshines spellbreaker in that role, hence why it is used way more frequently in meta builds.

 

My point is: spellbreaker's problem in PvE is not really the design of the spec, but the design of the **content**.

Anet has given us bruiser/tank specs in the past (spellbreaker, scrapper, daredevil), yet almost no content in the game requires you to bring that role. At max, you have 1 tank in a team of 10 people (and then mostly people use the most efficient class as that, because of min maxing).

 

Most stuff in this game can get easily completed by just bringing 1-2 supports (healers) and 8-9 dps specs.

[Hannelore.8153]

> @"Kodama.6453" said:

> I don't think spellbreaker is supposed to be a dps spec in the first place.

>

> Think about it, why should Anet give warrior 2 dps focused specs in a row? It doesn't make sense, since if both specs are primarily focused on dps, then it's just the one with the higher dps picked all the time and the other completely neglected.

>

> Spellbreaker is a bruiser elite spec, like daredevil or scrapper. The spec is supposed to bring good (not great like dps specs like holosmith or berserker) dps, added defense, and stunlock.

> The problem here is.... these bruiser specs are basically filling the role of "tanks" in this game. But almost no content in this game at all requires that role.

>

> Scrapper and daredevil have the same problem like spellbreaker. They are supposed to provide great personal survival tools, but the game simply doesn't really call for it.

> And what happens if they are tanky specs but tankiness is not needed? The specs will migrate into another playstyle that actually **is** needed and they can at least kinda fulfill. Mostly the only needed roles are dps and support (healing + boonshare).

>

> Scrapper is used as a support in builds, even if the trait line and weapon **have no support value**. Because scrapper is not designed as a support in the first place, it is a bruiser. However, since gyros add some supportive features (rez on function gyro, damage reduction and projectile block on bulwark gyro) and engineer just has 2 support specs in core (inventions + alchemy), it is used in the third slot. Also scrapper avoids the competition with holosmith, which just outshines scrapper when it comes to dps.

>

> Daredevil is used in dps builds, since the staff can provide good damage with auto attacks and brings some utility for the group by having a good reflec uptime.

> It will compete with deadeye for dps builds, since that elite spec is thief's **actual** dps elite spec. It seems that deadeye doesn't outshine daredevil, tho. Which could mean there also is a problem with deadeye in PvE. And thieves can't realistically play support, so daredevil can't migrate in that role.

>

> Spellbreaker is also used in dps builds, because warrior can't realistically support. And it also has to compete with berserker, the true dps spec of the warrior. And berserker really outshines spellbreaker in that role, hence why it is used way more frequently in meta builds.

>

> My point is: spellbreaker's problem in PvE is not really the design of the spec, but the design of the **content**.

> Anet has given us bruiser/tank specs in the past (spellbreaker, scrapper, daredevil), yet almost no content in the game requires you to bring that role. At max, you have 1 tank in a team of 10 people (and then mostly people use the most efficient class as that, because of min maxing).

>

> Most stuff in this game can get easily completed by just bringing 1-2 supports (healers) and 8-9 dps specs.

 

The big issue with tank classes/builds in this game is that the aggro tables are all over the place; they only really work properly in raids. For everything else its almost like being random even though its not; though you can make predictions, most of the time the boss is harassing a DPS, glassy full support or a player reviving someone who'se downed, which is a useless aggro mechanic.

 

The aggro tables need to be standardarised:

- Taunt, Pull and tethers (Magebane, Spear of Justice) would generate high aggro.

- Damage reduction like from Traits, Signets and Protection would generate medium aggro.

- Health, armor and barrier would generate low aggro (highest first).

- Knockback and Launch would lower aggro.

 

Instead they've deliberately coded most aggro tables in the game to prey on the disadvantaged, which is the opposite. IF you're lucky, it'll target a Harrier or Zealot's player who can actually heal themselves through the damage, but usually its just a DPS that goes down and has to be spam-revived by their party, lengthening the encounter for basically no reason.

 

its just not a good design and they should rethink it but they don't like fixing older content.

[Kodama.6453]

@"Hannelore.8153"

 

Agreed, the aggro system is one of the major reasons why bruiser/tank specs are not able to perform their role well in this game. An overhaul for the aggro system is definitely needed, don't know if I can agree with all the details you have listed here, tho.

 

For example, scrapper as the supposed bruiser spec for engineer has access to blast gyro. It provides a launch, in your list this would reduce the scrapper's aggro, which is not what they would like to accomplish. Blast gyro is a great tool for the frontline scrapper, since it provides CC, might for your allies and some good damage.

 

Thumper turret launches enemies (0 distance), reducing it's aggro. But it is intended to be a turret to soak damage, basically a "tank turret". Reducing aggro is not what you want it to do.

 

Holosmith on the other hand is a dps spec and generally doesn't want to generate aggro. Yet the skill hard light arena would generate 16 seconds of protection, increasing the aggro of the holosmith. The trait light density amplifier gives holosmith 15% damage reduction in photonforge, as a melee dps spec, holosmith needs some survivability, hence why holo has quite some damage reduction (protection, density amplifier, spectrum shield), but you still don't want to draw aggro. These tools are there to make you survive some colleteral damage while you are going in to deliver your dps, they are not intended to make you a tank to soak damage for your team.

 

In general, I think toughness is one of the better ways to draw aggro. Anet is already changing up stuff that gave toughness before to give a "aggro neutral" damage reduction instead. Toughness is a stat you have to **build**. If you are building toughness, chances are you are trying to go for a tank build, especially with high toughness values.

This makes it a deliberate decision.

 

This can also get used on other aspects. As said before, thumper turret is supposed to be a "tank turret". We can improve on that by giving that turret higher toughness, which makes it draw aggro from enemies. The turret also provides protection to allies (if traited), meaning they would generate aggro in your list while thumper reduces it's own.... this is not what it wants to accomplish. But with the toughness added to it, it will tank, while the pulsing protection (which shouldn't increase aggro much, just really really slightly at best) will protect allies from the colleteral damage in the area.