Taril.8619 Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 #**Greatsword:** _Hundred Blades_ Max targets 5 Can now move while casting Final strike now also inflicts 5x Vulnerability (10s) #**Hammer:** _Hammer Swing_ 10% bonus damage against weakened targets _Hammer Bash_ 10% bonus damage against weakened targets _Hammer Smash_ 20% bonus damage against weakened targets #**Axe** _Whirling Axe_ Now also blocks projectiles #**Sword** _Final Thrust_ Now also applies 6x Bleed (4s) against targets above 50% life _Impale_ Now applies Bleeding stacks instead of Torment _Rip_ No longer removes Impale debuff _Flurry_ Can now move while casting Now applies flat 2s (1s PvP/WvW) immobilize at all Adrenaline levels Adrenaline now scales cast time: 1 Adrenaline: 2.5s cast. 2 Adrenaline: 2s cast. 3 Adrenaline: 1.5s cast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lametoile.7394 Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 I really like the sword suggestions (especially the flurry one) Adding projectile blocking to whirling axe would make it too powerful considering the cooldown. (Whirling cooldwown from the ranger deals nearly as much damage, but have a +10s cooldown and doesn't allow movement). I admit axe lacks defense, which is the purpose, so that it shines in damage. I would personnaly suggest a projectile reflection on cyclone axe. Should hammer gets more damage? I let others tell And finally the beloved greatsword...We all agree that movement restriction is annoying. But allowing movement would somehow affect the feeling of the skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taril.8619 Posted June 23, 2020 Author Share Posted June 23, 2020 > @"Lametoile.7394" said: > I really like the sword suggestions (especially the flurry one) Thanks! Most of these suggestions come from me having played with the weapons and felt some issues. With Sword, it was mostly that as a Condi build, skill 2 doesn't do anything above 50% life, skill 4 is weird and has Torment (While my Condi builds focus on getting 100% Bleed and Burn duration from Arms and Berserker traits that provide 33% Bleed/Burn duration respectively) and that Flurry just seems weird like... It feels like it was designed for PvP, back in 2012 before there was a million ways to break immobilize/CC/Teleport away from the attack. > @"Lametoile.7394" said: > Adding projectile blocking to whirling axe would make it too powerful considering the cooldown. (Whirling cooldwown from the ranger deals nearly as much damage, but have a +10s cooldown and doesn't allow movement). This is a legitimate concern. Though, it's why I suggested block as opposed to reflect which the Ranger skill provides. It's also worth noting that Ranger's skill also provides Retaliation and Vulnerability, while Warrior's one is just damage. Which could contribute to the cooldown discrepancy. > @"Lametoile.7394" said: > I admit axe lacks defense, which is the purpose, so that it shines in damage. I would personnaly suggest a projectile reflection on cyclone axe. This could be a solution. Though, personally I have concerns that the skill might end up feeling a bit overloaded? What with being a major source of damage, plus Fury, plus Vulnerability and a whirl finisher as is, adding Proj reflect on top might make it seem a little bloated? > @"Lametoile.7394" said: > Should hammer gets more damage? I let others tell Well, damage is the main thing it's missing. It has CC in spades. It just doesn't really have the damage to back it up to make it an effective weapon. So I figure maybe increase the auto attack damage if you're maintaining Weakness, so it can deal damage but it's not going to be bursting too hard (Which could happen if the damage of its Burst skill or Fierce Blow were buffed) > @"Lametoile.7394" said: > And finally the beloved greatsword...We all agree that movement restriction is annoying. But allowing movement would somehow affect the feeling of the skill. I dunno. The number of times that I've pressed 2 and then tried to run through a pack of mobs is so high I've lost count. It just doesn't feel like the sort of skill that should keep you in place (Especially given how mobile the rest of GS is, with skill 3 and skill 5 providing plenty of mobility) That and the fact that it barely deals more DPS than auto attacks (If at all, in PvP/WvW it deals less damage than auto attacks) with its 5.83 (3.6) coefficient over 3.5 seconds vs auto attack's 2.9 (1.943) coefficient over 1.5 seconds (That's 5.8/3.886 coefficient over 3 seconds) suggests it really doesn't deserve its self root. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zuko.7132 Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 > @"Taril.8619" said: > > @"Lametoile.7394" said: > > I really like the sword suggestions (especially the flurry one) > > Thanks! > > Most of these suggestions come from me having played with the weapons and felt some issues. With Sword, it was mostly that as a Condi build, skill 2 doesn't do anything above 50% life, skill 4 is weird and has Torment (While my Condi builds focus on getting 100% Bleed and Burn duration from Arms and Berserker traits that provide 33% Bleed/Burn duration respectively) and that Flurry just seems weird like... It feels like it was designed for PvP, back in 2012 before there was a million ways to break immobilize/CC/Teleport away from the attack. > > > @"Lametoile.7394" said: > > Adding projectile blocking to whirling axe would make it too powerful considering the cooldown. (Whirling cooldwown from the ranger deals nearly as much damage, but have a +10s cooldown and doesn't allow movement). > > This is a legitimate concern. Though, it's why I suggested block as opposed to reflect which the Ranger skill provides. > > It's also worth noting that Ranger's skill also provides Retaliation and Vulnerability, while Warrior's one is just damage. Which could contribute to the cooldown discrepancy. > > > @"Lametoile.7394" said: > > I admit axe lacks defense, which is the purpose, so that it shines in damage. I would personnaly suggest a projectile reflection on cyclone axe. > > This could be a solution. Though, personally I have concerns that the skill might end up feeling a bit overloaded? What with being a major source of damage, plus Fury, plus Vulnerability and a whirl finisher as is, adding Proj reflect on top might make it seem a little bloated? > > > @"Lametoile.7394" said: > > Should hammer gets more damage? I let others tell > > Well, damage is the main thing it's missing. It has CC in spades. It just doesn't really have the damage to back it up to make it an effective weapon. So I figure maybe increase the auto attack damage if you're maintaining Weakness, so it can deal damage but it's not going to be bursting too hard (Which could happen if the damage of its Burst skill or Fierce Blow were buffed) > > > @"Lametoile.7394" said: > > And finally the beloved greatsword...We all agree that movement restriction is annoying. But allowing movement would somehow affect the feeling of the skill. > > I dunno. The number of times that I've pressed 2 and then tried to run through a pack of mobs is so high I've lost count. It just doesn't feel like the sort of skill that should keep you in place (Especially given how mobile the rest of GS is, with skill 3 and skill 5 providing plenty of mobility) > > That and the fact that it barely deals more DPS than auto attacks (If at all, in PvP/WvW it deals less damage than auto attacks) with its 5.83 (3.6) coefficient over 3.5 seconds vs auto attack's 2.9 (1.943) coefficient over 1.5 seconds (That's 5.8/3.886 coefficient over 3 seconds) suggests it really doesn't deserve its self root. Wait it really deals less than autos in pvp? I need to stop using it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lan Deathrider.5910 Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 > @"Zuko.7132" said: > > @"Taril.8619" said: > > > @"Lametoile.7394" said: > > > I really like the sword suggestions (especially the flurry one) > > > > Thanks! > > > > Most of these suggestions come from me having played with the weapons and felt some issues. With Sword, it was mostly that as a Condi build, skill 2 doesn't do anything above 50% life, skill 4 is weird and has Torment (While my Condi builds focus on getting 100% Bleed and Burn duration from Arms and Berserker traits that provide 33% Bleed/Burn duration respectively) and that Flurry just seems weird like... It feels like it was designed for PvP, back in 2012 before there was a million ways to break immobilize/CC/Teleport away from the attack. > > > > > @"Lametoile.7394" said: > > > Adding projectile blocking to whirling axe would make it too powerful considering the cooldown. (Whirling cooldwown from the ranger deals nearly as much damage, but have a +10s cooldown and doesn't allow movement). > > > > This is a legitimate concern. Though, it's why I suggested block as opposed to reflect which the Ranger skill provides. > > > > It's also worth noting that Ranger's skill also provides Retaliation and Vulnerability, while Warrior's one is just damage. Which could contribute to the cooldown discrepancy. > > > > > @"Lametoile.7394" said: > > > I admit axe lacks defense, which is the purpose, so that it shines in damage. I would personnaly suggest a projectile reflection on cyclone axe. > > > > This could be a solution. Though, personally I have concerns that the skill might end up feeling a bit overloaded? What with being a major source of damage, plus Fury, plus Vulnerability and a whirl finisher as is, adding Proj reflect on top might make it seem a little bloated? > > > > > @"Lametoile.7394" said: > > > Should hammer gets more damage? I let others tell > > > > Well, damage is the main thing it's missing. It has CC in spades. It just doesn't really have the damage to back it up to make it an effective weapon. So I figure maybe increase the auto attack damage if you're maintaining Weakness, so it can deal damage but it's not going to be bursting too hard (Which could happen if the damage of its Burst skill or Fierce Blow were buffed) > > > > > @"Lametoile.7394" said: > > > And finally the beloved greatsword...We all agree that movement restriction is annoying. But allowing movement would somehow affect the feeling of the skill. > > > > I dunno. The number of times that I've pressed 2 and then tried to run through a pack of mobs is so high I've lost count. It just doesn't feel like the sort of skill that should keep you in place (Especially given how mobile the rest of GS is, with skill 3 and skill 5 providing plenty of mobility) > > > > That and the fact that it barely deals more DPS than auto attacks (If at all, in PvP/WvW it deals less damage than auto attacks) with its 5.83 (3.6) coefficient over 3.5 seconds vs auto attack's 2.9 (1.943) coefficient over 1.5 seconds (That's 5.8/3.886 coefficient over 3 seconds) suggests it really doesn't deserve its self root. > > Wait it really deals less than autos in pvp? I need to stop using it. You were still trying to use it? For the math disinclined that coefficient ratio vs cast time is 1.666/1.029 for 100B (PvE/Comp). The AA chain actually takes 2.4 seconds not 1.5 (aftercasts yada yada wiki confirms its 2.4s) with coefficient ratio vs cast time of 1.208/0.81 (PvE/Comp). BUT the AA chain puts Vulnerability on the first two hits, so if you include that then the AA chain comes out to 1.33/0.935. Its a 9% difference and you get to move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zuko.7132 Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said: > > @"Zuko.7132" said: > > > @"Taril.8619" said: > > > > @"Lametoile.7394" said: > > > > I really like the sword suggestions (especially the flurry one) > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > > > Most of these suggestions come from me having played with the weapons and felt some issues. With Sword, it was mostly that as a Condi build, skill 2 doesn't do anything above 50% life, skill 4 is weird and has Torment (While my Condi builds focus on getting 100% Bleed and Burn duration from Arms and Berserker traits that provide 33% Bleed/Burn duration respectively) and that Flurry just seems weird like... It feels like it was designed for PvP, back in 2012 before there was a million ways to break immobilize/CC/Teleport away from the attack. > > > > > > > @"Lametoile.7394" said: > > > > Adding projectile blocking to whirling axe would make it too powerful considering the cooldown. (Whirling cooldwown from the ranger deals nearly as much damage, but have a +10s cooldown and doesn't allow movement). > > > > > > This is a legitimate concern. Though, it's why I suggested block as opposed to reflect which the Ranger skill provides. > > > > > > It's also worth noting that Ranger's skill also provides Retaliation and Vulnerability, while Warrior's one is just damage. Which could contribute to the cooldown discrepancy. > > > > > > > @"Lametoile.7394" said: > > > > I admit axe lacks defense, which is the purpose, so that it shines in damage. I would personnaly suggest a projectile reflection on cyclone axe. > > > > > > This could be a solution. Though, personally I have concerns that the skill might end up feeling a bit overloaded? What with being a major source of damage, plus Fury, plus Vulnerability and a whirl finisher as is, adding Proj reflect on top might make it seem a little bloated? > > > > > > > @"Lametoile.7394" said: > > > > Should hammer gets more damage? I let others tell > > > > > > Well, damage is the main thing it's missing. It has CC in spades. It just doesn't really have the damage to back it up to make it an effective weapon. So I figure maybe increase the auto attack damage if you're maintaining Weakness, so it can deal damage but it's not going to be bursting too hard (Which could happen if the damage of its Burst skill or Fierce Blow were buffed) > > > > > > > @"Lametoile.7394" said: > > > > And finally the beloved greatsword...We all agree that movement restriction is annoying. But allowing movement would somehow affect the feeling of the skill. > > > > > > I dunno. The number of times that I've pressed 2 and then tried to run through a pack of mobs is so high I've lost count. It just doesn't feel like the sort of skill that should keep you in place (Especially given how mobile the rest of GS is, with skill 3 and skill 5 providing plenty of mobility) > > > > > > That and the fact that it barely deals more DPS than auto attacks (If at all, in PvP/WvW it deals less damage than auto attacks) with its 5.83 (3.6) coefficient over 3.5 seconds vs auto attack's 2.9 (1.943) coefficient over 1.5 seconds (That's 5.8/3.886 coefficient over 3 seconds) suggests it really doesn't deserve its self root. > > > > Wait it really deals less than autos in pvp? I need to stop using it. > > You were still trying to use it? > > For the math disinclined that coefficient ratio vs cast time is 1.666/1.029 for 100B (PvE/Comp). The AA chain actually takes 2.4 seconds not 1.5 (aftercasts yada yada wiki confirms its 2.4s) with coefficient ratio vs cast time of 1.208/0.81 (PvE/Comp). BUT the AA chain puts Vulnerability on the first two hits, so if you include that then the AA chain comes out to 1.33/0.935. > > Its a 9% difference and you get to move. Okay so hundred blades is still better if they are cc'ed and can't move. Only 9% better, but at least it's something. It has indeed been a long time since I've mathed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lan Deathrider.5910 Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 > @"Zuko.7132" said: > > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said: > > > @"Zuko.7132" said: > > > > @"Taril.8619" said: > > > > > @"Lametoile.7394" said: > > > > > I really like the sword suggestions (especially the flurry one) > > > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > > > > > Most of these suggestions come from me having played with the weapons and felt some issues. With Sword, it was mostly that as a Condi build, skill 2 doesn't do anything above 50% life, skill 4 is weird and has Torment (While my Condi builds focus on getting 100% Bleed and Burn duration from Arms and Berserker traits that provide 33% Bleed/Burn duration respectively) and that Flurry just seems weird like... It feels like it was designed for PvP, back in 2012 before there was a million ways to break immobilize/CC/Teleport away from the attack. > > > > > > > > > @"Lametoile.7394" said: > > > > > Adding projectile blocking to whirling axe would make it too powerful considering the cooldown. (Whirling cooldwown from the ranger deals nearly as much damage, but have a +10s cooldown and doesn't allow movement). > > > > > > > > This is a legitimate concern. Though, it's why I suggested block as opposed to reflect which the Ranger skill provides. > > > > > > > > It's also worth noting that Ranger's skill also provides Retaliation and Vulnerability, while Warrior's one is just damage. Which could contribute to the cooldown discrepancy. > > > > > > > > > @"Lametoile.7394" said: > > > > > I admit axe lacks defense, which is the purpose, so that it shines in damage. I would personnaly suggest a projectile reflection on cyclone axe. > > > > > > > > This could be a solution. Though, personally I have concerns that the skill might end up feeling a bit overloaded? What with being a major source of damage, plus Fury, plus Vulnerability and a whirl finisher as is, adding Proj reflect on top might make it seem a little bloated? > > > > > > > > > @"Lametoile.7394" said: > > > > > Should hammer gets more damage? I let others tell > > > > > > > > Well, damage is the main thing it's missing. It has CC in spades. It just doesn't really have the damage to back it up to make it an effective weapon. So I figure maybe increase the auto attack damage if you're maintaining Weakness, so it can deal damage but it's not going to be bursting too hard (Which could happen if the damage of its Burst skill or Fierce Blow were buffed) > > > > > > > > > @"Lametoile.7394" said: > > > > > And finally the beloved greatsword...We all agree that movement restriction is annoying. But allowing movement would somehow affect the feeling of the skill. > > > > > > > > I dunno. The number of times that I've pressed 2 and then tried to run through a pack of mobs is so high I've lost count. It just doesn't feel like the sort of skill that should keep you in place (Especially given how mobile the rest of GS is, with skill 3 and skill 5 providing plenty of mobility) > > > > > > > > That and the fact that it barely deals more DPS than auto attacks (If at all, in PvP/WvW it deals less damage than auto attacks) with its 5.83 (3.6) coefficient over 3.5 seconds vs auto attack's 2.9 (1.943) coefficient over 1.5 seconds (That's 5.8/3.886 coefficient over 3 seconds) suggests it really doesn't deserve its self root. > > > > > > Wait it really deals less than autos in pvp? I need to stop using it. > > > > You were still trying to use it? > > > > For the math disinclined that coefficient ratio vs cast time is 1.666/1.029 for 100B (PvE/Comp). The AA chain actually takes 2.4 seconds not 1.5 (aftercasts yada yada wiki confirms its 2.4s) with coefficient ratio vs cast time of 1.208/0.81 (PvE/Comp). BUT the AA chain puts Vulnerability on the first two hits, so if you include that then the AA chain comes out to 1.33/0.935. > > > > Its a 9% difference and you get to move. > > Okay so hundred blades is still better if they are cc'ed and can't move. Only 9% better, but at least it's something. It has indeed been a long time since I've mathed. Speaks to how dated it is and how much they've nerfed warrior as of late does it not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougre.6543 Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 > @"Zuko.7132" said: > Okay so hundred blades is still better if they are cc'ed and can't move. Only 9% better, but at least it's something. It has indeed been a long time since I've mathed. Keep in mind that the last hit does more damage. It's probably equal damage if the enemy gets out of the way before then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lan Deathrider.5910 Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 > @"Cougre.6543" said: > > @"Zuko.7132" said: > > Okay so hundred blades is still better if they are cc'ed and can't move. Only 9% better, but at least it's something. It has indeed been a long time since I've mathed. > Keep in mind that the last hit does more damage. It's probably equal damage if the enemy gets out of the way before then. Which is the case most of the time sadly. I really which it, Flurry, and Kill Shot would get a refresh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zuko.7132 Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 True. Okay. Only use 100b with quickness after bulls charge. Ya it needs a buff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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