Dear Anet, I love Halloween.. But.

[Grimheart.2853]

> @Astralporing.1957 said:

> > @UrMom.4205 said:

> > Curious, the JP is just 10 ap, does it really matter that much? Just skip it and do the other ones.

> There's also the repeatable achi that adds more ap on top of it. And the boots block a different collection.

>

> Additionally, there's the waiting for everyone that makes repeating it (to learn the path) really irritating. And for me it requires a _lot_ of repeats (i was never good with timed JPs, even with slower ones, and that one is definitely way too fast for me).

> Maybe it would have been better if i could practice it in a solo instance, at my own pace, not having to do it at a pace decided by several other people.

 

> @troops.8276 said:

> > @Grimheart.2853 said:

> > > @STIHL.2489 said:

> > > > @zombyturtle.5980 said:

> > > >

> > > > You can craft the armor with a recipie you can buy. You dont need to do the JP to get it, its not gated.

> > > Be that as it may, how does it diminish you if I get some token completion in a Holiday festival in a game? Is your ego that fragile that it would hurt you in some way to allow people to have their paltry rewards and complete objectives?

> > >

> > > Are we really going to be that petty over a Holiday event?

> >

> > Is YOUR ego that fragile that it would hurt you in some way to not recieve credit for somerting you don't deserve?

> >

> > Are we really going to be that petty over irrelevant 10 APs?

>

> But if Anet made a 'thanks for trying 100 times' award then he would deserve it and that's what was asked for so......

>

> And yes clearly we all really are that petty to keep a thread like this going for so long. It's just as petty either way and it's not likely Anet will actually do it or even care. So who gives a kitten?

 

But does A-net need to bother to put time and effort into unironically giving a reward for NOT completing something, while the reward itself isn't even gated behind the puzzle in the first place? Like seriously, what's the point of that reward?

 

It's a discussion. There's nothing petty about the sole fact of having a discussion.

[troops.8276]

> @Grimheart.2853 said:

> > @Astralporing.1957 said:

> > > @UrMom.4205 said:

> > > Curious, the JP is just 10 ap, does it really matter that much? Just skip it and do the other ones.

> > There's also the repeatable achi that adds more ap on top of it. And the boots block a different collection.

> >

> > Additionally, there's the waiting for everyone that makes repeating it (to learn the path) really irritating. And for me it requires a _lot_ of repeats (i was never good with timed JPs, even with slower ones, and that one is definitely way too fast for me).

> > Maybe it would have been better if i could practice it in a solo instance, at my own pace, not having to do it at a pace decided by several other people.

>

> > @troops.8276 said:

> > > @Grimheart.2853 said:

> > > > @STIHL.2489 said:

> > > > > @zombyturtle.5980 said:

> > > > >

> > > > > You can craft the armor with a recipie you can buy. You dont need to do the JP to get it, its not gated.

> > > > Be that as it may, how does it diminish you if I get some token completion in a Holiday festival in a game? Is your ego that fragile that it would hurt you in some way to allow people to have their paltry rewards and complete objectives?

> > > >

> > > > Are we really going to be that petty over a Holiday event?

> > >

> > > Is YOUR ego that fragile that it would hurt you in some way to not recieve credit for somerting you don't deserve?

> > >

> > > Are we really going to be that petty over irrelevant 10 APs?

> >

> > But if Anet made a 'thanks for trying 100 times' award then he would deserve it and that's what was asked for so......

> >

> > And yes clearly we all really are that petty to keep a thread like this going for so long. It's just as petty either way and it's not likely Anet will actually do it or even care. So who gives a kitten?

>

> But does A-net need to bother to put time and effort into unironically giving a reward for NOT completing something, while the reward itself isn't even gated behind the puzzle in the first place? Like seriously, what's the point of that reward?

>

> It's a discussion. There's nothing petty about the sole fact of having a discussion.

 

I actually all ready basically answered your first question and the content of the 'discussion' is really petty. Really really petty and pointless too but it's some funny kitten though.

[STIHL.2489]

> @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said:

> > @OrbitalButt.5708 said:

> > My ego is also not so fragile as to be deathly wounded to my very core by the lack of a five (5) AP reward due to my inability to complete a jumping puzzle in an electronic blip blop entertainment product designed for ages Teen and up

>

> This.

>

> Also I will add that sayyyyy they implement the "you tried" reward... whats to stop me from running into goo x times in a row and cashing out?!

 

Well, ultimately, you will have to run into the goo x times to get the reward, it's just a matter of if it's intentional. Also, if you already did the clock tower, this would no longer be an option or you to obtain, equally so, if you take this, you then can't get any other clock tower rewards, if you could beat the clock tower, it would be prtty stupid to lose out on those rewards, like being able to r-run for bags or an easy daily fright event.

 

[Ashantara.8731]

> @Nightshade.5924 said:

> "I tried for hours...." kinda says it all for me.

 

So you want everything in this game to be made super easy to accomplish? Now, _that_ would feel pretty unrewarding after a while if you could get stuff without effort.

 

> And if you're insulted... that's too bad. Join the club, as I am insulted every time I contemplate having to do a JP for ANYTHING.

 

_You_ feel insulted by the gameplay. _They_ felt insulted by your wording. Not the same thing.

 

[troops.8276]

> @Ashantara.8731 said:

> > @Nightshade.5924 said:

> > "I tried for hours...." kinda says it all for me.

>

> So you want anything in this game to be made super easy? Now, _that_ would feel pretty unrewarding after a while if you could get everything without effort.

>

> > And if you're insulted... that's too bad. Join the club, as I am insulted every time I contemplate having to do a JP for ANYTHING.

>

> _You_ feel insulted by the gameplay. _They_ felt insulted by your wording. Not the same thing.

>

 

Doing something 100+ times while failing badly does take effort. Maybe even more than just doing it once right the first time.

[STIHL.2489]

> @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:

> I wish they would make the clocktower harder, and then put exclusive items gated behind it, so that JP pro's can get something rewarding.

 

You know what would be better, is if they made an Old School Style Event with a Jump Puzzle, make it a summer event so that all the kids will be out of school and will have the time to devote to this. The Puzzle would be open for 2 months during the summer, say from the start of July to the End of August. 60 days. Seems like a lot, but. trust me those 2 months won't seem like nearly enough time.

 

So this is how it goes, they make a Jump Puzzle on par to, just a tad harder then winters day, but, of course, summer and sand as opposed to mints and ice, like jumping on beach umbrellas as opposed to mint circles and the like. You get the idea.

 

Now this is how it gets fun, the Jump Puzzle would only be open for 10 minuets every 24 hours, after which time it would close, but it could open at any time once, during that 24 hour time frame, so you could have them open near right after each other, or be almost 2 whole days apart, because, making it a random spawn like that would be part of the challenge and keep it reserved only to the serious players willing to camp the spawn.

 

Then to make things just a bit more noteworthy, only the first person to complete the puzzle per spawn would get the reward, and everyone else would get kicked from the puzzle, no matter how far along they were, and would have to wait for it spawn again to try again.

 

That would still be a little easier then the old school MMOs.. but, it would be close, and it would make the very few people, all 60 of them.. across the whole mega-server.. per year.. would be able to get the title, and gear.. assuming no one wins it twice..

 

Now that would be something serous to add to the game.

 

But for now.. I'd like alternate way to complete the clock tower... or get the boots. I suppose I will just raise crafting to 400, as that would be easier for me, but.. still I'd like the "You tried your best" reward.Maybe give it a title, ya know.. see who is willing to parade around their bad jumping skills.

[Ashantara.8731]

> @troops.8276 said:

> Doing something 100+ times while failing badly does take effort. Maybe even more than just doing it once right the first time.

 

Nobody got that JP "right the first time". Everyone had to train for an hour or two until they got the hang of it.

 

You think other players are psychic and instantly knew the path and every jump, curve, obstacle and bug of the Clocktower? Nope. Mastering challenging JPs _always_ takes practice.

[troops.8276]

> @Ashantara.8731 said:

> > @troops.8276 said:

> > Doing something 100+ times while failing badly does take effort. Maybe even more than just doing it once right the first time.

>

> Nobody got that JP "right the first time". Everyone had to train for an hour or two until they got the hang of it.

>

> You think other players are psychic and instantly knew the path and every jump, curve, obstacle and bug of the Clocktower? Nope. Mastering challenging JPs _always_ takes practice.

 

And that doesn't in anyway invalidate my point, merely changes the parameters, if what you claim is indeed true.

 

Edit. Lol, bit redundant to say challenging things are a challenge. Also, words in mouth, watch a vid, follow someone, get lucky, blah, blah, blah. Nice try though.

[STIHL.2489]

> @troops.8276 said:

> > @Grimheart.2853 said:

> > > @STIHL.2489 said:

> > > > @zombyturtle.5980 said:

> > > >

> > > > You can craft the armor with a recipie you can buy. You dont need to do the JP to get it, its not gated.

> > > Be that as it may, how does it diminish you if I get some token completion in a Holiday festival in a game? Is your ego that fragile that it would hurt you in some way to allow people to have their paltry rewards and complete objectives?

> > >

> > > Are we really going to be that petty over a Holiday event?

> >

> > Is YOUR ego that fragile that it would hurt you in some way to not recieve credit for somerting you don't deserve?

> >

> > Are we really going to be that petty over irrelevant 10 APs?

>

> But if Anet made a 'thanks for trying 100 times' award then he would deserve it and that's what was asked for so......

>

> And yes clearly we all really are that petty to keep a thread like this going for so long. It's just as petty either way and it's not likely Anet will actually do it or even care. So who gives a kitten?

 

Well, I kinda hope that Anet does at least read this topic and maybe, makes it so that none of the future holiday festivities are gated behind a JP. I am sure people enjoy them, but the they should not stonewall progress for other holiday fun filled activities, after all, these events and their rewards should be for the masses, not the select few. Much in the same way Trick-n-Treating in real life is for every one that wants to do it.

[STIHL.2489]

> @Grimheart.2853 said:

> Are we really going to be that petty over irrelevant 10 APs?

 

Wow, does anyone really think this is about the paltry and insignificant 10AP? honestly? I just want a set of boots for my elementalist and not need to go grind 400 ranks in tailoring for it. Sorry that hurts your ego, so much so that you need to try and put down people for trying.

 

Din't know it mattered that much to you.. to have your special little JP achievement and 10 AP, sorry.

[katz.8376]

> Are we really going to be that petty over irrelevant 10 APs?

 

anyone who thinks this is about the AP hasn't been paying attention to the conversation.

[RoseofGilead.8907]

> @STIHL.2489 said:

 

> I just want a set of boots for my elementalist and not need to go grind 400 ranks in tailoring for it.

 

You have two available options for the boots you want. You don't want to/can't do the direct route (complete the JP). That's cool and understandable. But then you also don't want to do the work for the other option you have available to you. Getting to 400 doesn't take much time at all, and it isn't even that expensive if you follow a good guide. It costs around 26g to level Tailoring from 0-400.

[OrbitalButt.5708]

My hands have been crippled by rheumatoid arthritis since my teens. Between that and nerve damage there is very little chance I'll be able to complete this jumping puzzle. However, I'm going to use the methods provided to me to make the boots myself, even if that means grinding some tailoring to do so. I don't deserve the boots for free because I didn't complete the JP. That's the reality of the situation.

 

The only person here with a fragile, wounded ego is _you_.

[katz.8376]

> @Uruk.3215 said:

> > @"Ayumi Spender.1082" said:

> > > @Donari.5237 said:

> > > > @"Ayumi Spender.1082" said:

> > > > Wait. What's the twitch skill? Please tell me what this is. I've beaten it, but if it would make it easier I would actually try to beat it a 2nd time.

> > > > What is a twitch skill?

> > >

> > > I'll take that as a serious question. "Twitch skill" refers to having very fast reflexes, being able to very quickly and accurately do fast-reaction motion and control in games. So OP wasn't saying some people or professions have an in-game skill on their bar that helps, s/he was saying some people are physically better at rapid keyboard/mouse action.

> > >

> > > (I am someone without high twitch skill, though happily it is not due to anything but being older).

> >

> > Ah. I'm playing with a controller. I would never beat this with keyboard/mouse. My hands would jolt way too much and screw me up.

> > I already screw up a ton with the controller but it would be way worse on mouse.

>

>

>

> Wait, you can play with a controller?

 

i play with a PS3 controller mapped through Pinnacle Game Profile software. my husband used to use a controller, but currently uses the duo of a Razer Naga 12 button mouse and a Tartarus game pad. we do it to save ourselves from carpal tunnel. except in a very few instances (all of them being pvp situations where certain key combos and twitch skills reign supreme) i do not consider myself to be disadvantaged in any way, and even with the few minor shortcommings i experience, i am still a passable duelist in pvp/wvw. we're both in our 40s, neither one of us is able to complete the clocktower jp...and not for lack of trying.

[STIHL.2489]

> @OrbitalButt.5708 said:

> My hands have been crippled by rheumatoid arthritis since my teens. Between that and nerve damage there is very little chance I'll be able to complete this jumping puzzle. However, I'm going to use the methods provided to me to make the boots myself, even if that means grinding some tailoring to do so. I don't deserve the boots for free because I didn't complete the JP. That's the reality of the situation.

>

> The only person here with a fragile, wounded ego is you.

 

That would require it to be a matter of ego to me, since it would be a pity completion" it could not in any way feed my ego or my vanity, quite the opposite in fact, It's simply a matter of gold cost and annoyance to get the boots.

 

The people that for some reason, which at this point, cannot be fathomed, feel that after 100 ties I should still be denied even after a solid amount of tries, because "neenier neener you didn't do it" comes across as the ones feeding their only petty vanity and ego.

 

No my ego is not fragile in the least, as I want people to enjoy a game with me, getting the same rewards and feelings of enjoying a game at a festive event, and I don't feel bad for giving people some notice for giving their best try even if they can't do it. I can't imagine how hollow some people must be to rip other people just to feel better. while I'll most likely craft the boots when I get home from work. today., none of you will be able to craft some self worth while still looking for in a game.

[OrbitalButt.5708]

Insulting a disabled guy for telling you to get over yourself and stop playing the victim is a really good look

[STIHL.2489]

> @OrbitalButt.5708 said:

> Insulting a disabled guy for telling you to get over yourself and stop playing the victim is a really good look

 

How do you know you didn't insult someone with a disability first? Was it because I don't talk about it seeking to use it as a sympathy card?

 

Wake Up Call, **A lot of people with disabilities play this game**. all kinds of disabilities, just because you flaunt yours, does not give you the right to talk down to anyone. because you have no idea what they are dealing with.

 

But, you also bring up a good point with JP, Anet should put in alternate means for their JP's, in all their events due to the fact that there are quite a few people with disabilities that play this game that make it physically impossible for them to complete some tasks that do require fine motor control.

[Shard.4791]

STIHL, are you saying every reward in this game should be achievevable by everyone? Raids, dungeon & fractal titles, SAB, grind titles (wvw ones mostly) et cetera? If not why are JPs an exception?

 

I do not agree with that sentiment. IMO GW2 is already casual enough.

[Deihnyx.6318]

> @STIHL.2489 said:

> > @OrbitalButt.5708 said:

> > Insulting a disabled guy for telling you to get over yourself and stop playing the victim is a really good look

>

> How do you know you didn't insult someone with a disability first? Was it because I don't talk about it seeking to use it as a sympathy card?

>

> Wake Up Call, **A lot of people with disabilities play this game**. all kinds of disabilities, just because you flaunt yours, does not give you the right to talk down to anyone. because you have no idea what they are dealing with.

>

> But, you also bring up a good point with JP, Anet should put in alternate means for their JP's, in all their events due to the fact that there are quite a few people with disabilities that play this game that make it physically impossible for them to complete some tasks that do require fine motor control.

 

I'm not physically able to farm all that gold to get all the prenium skins I want (because I work!), and I don't make enough money to credit farm them all.

Conclusion: Anet should put in alternates methods.

 

Your criteria are subjective and consequently there are always going to be people disagreeing, saying what you consider unfair is fair to them, while what you consider fair is unfair to them.

This is the problem with this whole thread. Egos fighting egos, all pretending and using that same "ego" argument as if it mattered, as if rewards in a video game was anything but teasing one's ego.

 

Also, using the disability argument to get what you want is a wildcard that can only be used so many times. I agree that it kinda work when it comes to nerfing story (Ohhh eater of souls nerf thread), but using it that much, especially for the content discussed in this thread, while there's additional ways of getting the infamous armor piece, is a little... I don't know, uncalled for? Sounds a bit like opportunism imho.

 

> @troops.8276 said:

> > @Deihnyx.6318 said:

> > > @Nightshade.5924 said:

> > > > @Deihnyx.6318 said:

> > > > > @Nightshade.5924 said:

> > > > > > @Deihnyx.6318 said:

> > > > > > > @Nightshade.5924 said:

> > > > > > > > @Deihnyx.6318 said:

> > > > > > > > > @Nightshade.5924 said:

> > > > > > > > > > @STIHL.2489 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @troops.8276 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @Samnang.1879 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > Can ppl pls stop complaining about the difficulty of things in this game???

> > > > > > > > > > > > NOTHING in the game is that hard (save from getting god of pvp title).

> > > > > > > > > > > > 90% of guild wars 2 content is easy and made for casuals, hearts, map events, low level fractals, stories. this jp is something that comes once every year, let the ppl who enjoy the challenge have their enjoyment of the challenge instead of making anet dum down all the content cuz u can't do it. its not fair and unreasonable.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I think OP was 'complaining' about their own inability and not asking for it too be 'dumbed down'. Rather just wanting a 'different' way to complete it.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Something may be easy for you but that doesn't mean its easy for everyone. Just like how it was easy for me to understand what the OP actually meant. ;)

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Some things may be relatively easy for most people but may take time and time is a commodity that many don't have much of. Or as the 'no lifers' put it 'casual'.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > This was my point, it also stonewalls progress in many other activities, like the book, and the boots. If the clock tower was standalone, I'd be more then happy to avoid it and let people farm it for bags and whatever. But, since it's tied to a few other items, I don't think it's asking to much, to give a "You gave it your best" completion, after 100 tries.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > @Loboling.5293 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > I'm fine with this. I can't remember how many tries it took me. I don't think I ever would've gotten it if not for watching other people beat it, as I tried to keep up with them. It was one of the best feelings I had when I finally beat it, and now every year I do it still just to help others get up.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > However, if someone wants to avoid that high you get when you finally beat it, and you've been trying 100 times. I say, why not give it to you. You're missing one fun feeling when you beat it on your own.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, after 100 times if you haven't made any real progress, just give them the achievement. My opinion.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I agree, there should be some kind of maybe checkpoint, that have to reach for it to count.. like say.. you need to at least jump onto the platform that comes off the tower wall at the start. I know I fail getting past that point a lot. But getting to it would remove the AFK players at least.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > This is the Winter's Presence scenario all over again. What really kills me is all the people who are "It's easy, anyone can do it". I wish I could take these people and subject them to a series of REAL world trials of skill. Say shooting, car racing, billiards, orienteering, baseball, basketball, and a math test. And then I wish I could GRADE them on their success or lack thereof in ALL of those skills TOGETHER, and then say... you LOST your completion of the Clock Tower and NEVER can have it because you're not good enough in all these skills.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Because that is what ANet is doing by gating an armor piece behind this jumping puzzle. Jumping is a skill. Making it a timed event makes it DIFFICULT SKILL. VERY. Anyone who says otherwise is likely under 20 years old or possibly jumped up on illegal substances.

> > > > > > > > > Personally, after the FIRST TWO TRIES at the CT, I just walked away. That was three, four years ago. I think I accidentally went in one other time. That's it. I play games to have fun, blow up/maim/kill mobs, to decompress and enjoy myself. I don't enjoy JP's, never have, NEVER will, and to have ANY content whatsoever gated behind a JP, especially a JP that is CLEARLY designed for very good to superior hand to eye co-ordination and reflexes is TOTALLY INSULTING TO ME PERSONALLY.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Anet needs to STOP insulting its customers in this fashion. I truly hope that THIS wintersday that Anet has come up with an ALTERNATE METHOD to gain the step currently covered by the WD JP. And I also hope that the next time that Anet considers gating something behind a uber crazy insane difficult JP, that they PROVIDE another pathway that is REASONALBE... and I also hope that they observe the stats on how many people AVOID the JP. Might give us some real numbers to talk about.

> > > > > > > > > Nuff said.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Wow... I find it easy and a matter of muscle memory (aka yeah, anyone can do it) so I'm a kid or I take drugs?

> > > > > > > > I can't even imagine what you think of raids lol.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I think you're the one insulting players who like trial and error challenges. Anet is just providing some very limited content that is based around that. The Clock Tower is one of them and so is trial and tribulations from SAB. There's still (Thanks gods) a playerbase for that kind of content, or games like Dark Souls, Binding of Isaac, Risk of Rain, whatever, would not be critical successes.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > It was challenging for me at first, I tried for hours the first year and I finally got it, and I will confirm what everyone else said, it's more memory muscle than anything, it's absolutely FINE if you don't want to spend time on that but stop asking for nerf just because you don't want to do that.

> > > > > > > > I don't care what real skills you have irl, it doesn't matter, it's a video game, you're tested on the mechanics of that video game, and you're not automatically right or legitimate because you're having issues beating some content. This kind of behavior actually IS typical of this new generation of gamers that blame a game for offering challenge, something no older gamer who played during the golden age of video games would ever do.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > And that is why I was against the Eater of Soul nerf. The more you nerf a game, the more people want to keep nerfing it.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > "I tried for hours...." kinda says it all for me. I'll look into the armor thing, and I'll see just how easy or not it is to craft it. Given the trend displayed in Ascended crafting, I'm not exactly hopeful at this moment. And if you're insulted... that's too bad. Join the club, as I am insulted every time I contemplate having to do a JP for ANYTHING. A timed JP is NOT a trial and error puzzle. It is an exercise in high end reflexes, timing, and memory, both muscle and cognitive. Trial and error implies that you HAVE TIME to CONSIDER and ANALYZE the environment, and the TIME to form a STRATEGY and RESPONSE.

> > > > > > > And I AM not asking for a nerf... I want an ALTERNATE method, like say complete x pvp games, or spend x time in wvw, something like that.... OR a version of the puzzle that doesn't sink into the death goo. NON timed, NON sinking, NON insane, in other words. Take away any real rewards if you want, just give me credit for completion, that'd be fine.

> > > > > > > I've expressed a similar sentiment two years running in regards to the Winters Day JP, and still remain hopeful that the devs WILL eventually see reason. OH, and BTW.. the WD JP is WHY once I DID my two tries, I quit. I had tried the WD the previous December, and just about threw my laptop through a wall after about three hours of continually dying and getting nowhere. Two tries was all it took for me to see that the CT would be more of the same. The bottom line is... don't put ANYTHING, achievement points, gold, rewards, ANYTHING, behind something that CANNOT BE DONE BY EVERYONE. And I'd have to say that it's clear that TIMED JP's fall into that category. Last thing... I AM an older gamer and NO, I don't do raids, as a matter of fact. And that's part of my problem DOING this sort of puzzle. My reflexes simply are not up to it.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > There's a difference between feeling "frustrated" by content that you can't do and insulting players, like you did. One is taking a game too seriously, the other is attacking players not even because they were mean to you or anything but simply because they've done it, and are discussing how they're doing it with much more ease now that they assimilated how to do it.

> > > > > > The clock tower is 100% trial and error. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind about that, and it's backed by a lot of people here who've actually done it more than 2 times.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > This is non sense to give you "completion" credit for something you haven't completed. Like... at all. I can discuss the argument that some stuff (like armor) is gated behind content that may seem challenging (but it's not gated since you can craft it), I don't have a problem with an easier version like SAB does, however if you haven't completed the "normal" tower, you haven't completed it.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > About your last paragraph... seriously if you want everything to be doable by everyone go play a telltale game that gives achievements for everyone. Seriously, this is a MMO, there is casual stuff, there is grind stuff, there is challenging stuff. Play what you like to play in this game and accept the fact that there's stuff in this game that isn't for you. AP, gold, rewards are gated behind everything and every mode.

> > > > > > Unless you play WvW, PVP, PVE and Raids, you're gonna miss some of them, and that shows some self entitlement to want to remove some rewards just because you can't get rank 2000 in wvw, just because you can't win a pvp tournament, just because you can't finish all raids or just because you can't do a jumping puzzle!

> > > > > > Oh and they should remove prenium skins I guess, since not everyone can farm the gold and not everyone has a heavy credit card?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Like seriously please realize how you would be impacting others by getting things done your way. Nobody can get everything, half of the fun is the journey to get there.

> > > > >

> > > > > Insulting players. NO, I made a comment based on MY experience, observation and analysis. Obviously you didn't, since YOU missed the part on MY woes w/ the WD JP. EXPERIENCE AND WISDOM told me to NOT waste my time on something that I KNEW I wasn't going to be able to complete. See my muscle memory post in this thread for more detail.

> > > > You did call players out for being on drugs or just kids, that's kind of an insult in my book.

> > > > "Obviously" you're not gonna get anything out of that.

> > > >

> > > > > @Nightshade.5924 said:

> > > > > Obviously you ALSO misunderstood my point about making a NON insane version of the MCT puzzle, One that would ONLY give a complete note or whatever, NOT rewards like AP's or skins or whatever. And you TOTALLY seem to be UNABLE to grasp the concept of this is game for EVERYONE.

> > > > > There should BE NO CONTENT, NONE WHATSOEVER, THAT GRANTS POINTS OR SPECIAL REWARDS THAT IS GATED BEHIND SOMETHING THAT CANNOT BE DONE BY EVERYONE. THIS IS A M M O. DO YOU GET THAT? If said content grants a title or something similar that HAS NO VALUE BEYOND BRAGGING RIGHTS, then that's fine. IF you want a medal, go try out for the Olympics. IF you want a prize, go cure cancer or get two uber hostile countries to make peace. IF You want some bada$$ online gaming title, go become Halo V reigning deathmatch title holder or something like that.

> > > > > Nuff said.

> > > >

> > > > Kinda hard since your logic is completely flawed.

> > > > "This is a MMO so all content should be doable by everyone" Ah yeah? says who? I love when people throw their own opinions as objective truth. "Obviously" not everyone agree and you need to do a bit more work to convince people.

> > > > Also, who are you to tell us what is fine or not? seriously what kind of self entitled individual dictate that it's ok to want super title to brag but somehow skins aren't ok?

> > > > What do you do about prenium skins? Should they all disappear too because you decided EVERYONE SHOULD GET THEM BECAUSE ITS A M.M.O. DO YOU GET THAT?

> > > >

> > > > What even is "something that cannot be done by everyone". PVP tournaments are doable by everyone, but not everyone win, so not everyone get the gold mini pet, should they remove that too for you??

> > > >

> > > > YES I GET IT THIS IS A MMO

> > > > And NO I do NOT agree that everything should be accessible for everyone. Actually it is accessible for everyone, but everyone has to achieve the same task, it is perfectly fine if some rewards are gated behind specific content because this is a video games and you must think about EVERYONE, not just the guy who wants everything now right now.

> > > >

> > > > This game IS for everyone, like you said.

> > > > OBVIOUSLY

> > > >

> > > If something is gated behind a content that, as has been determined, CANNOT be done by everyone, then it isn't FOR everyone. ANYONE can PvP, it's combat, and frankly, if you can't DO combat, why are you even playing GW2? Anyone CAN WvW, it's combat again. Can everyone finish first place? Obviously NOT. So getting a special trophy for that, or a title, or a skin, OK. If anyone puts in the time, and also has a good team, uses a good build, then they have a chance to earn it. Not necessarily a good chance, but there you go.

> > > But for a Jumping Puzzle to be made SO difficult that only people w/ a certain high degree of dexterity, manual speed and co-ordination are the ONLY ones that CAN complete it.. and then put prizes or whatever for completion... this is NOT the Olympics. This is a game. And you continually fail to grasp that point. Premium skins? Sell them at the cash shop. And you might want to check your own opinions etc ... who are you to tell me that I am wrong?

> >

> > So... wait.

> >

> > You can see and understand that pvp requires time, practice, getting good... that not everyone will get the final reward but that there's a journey/training to get there.

> > So what do you do about people who can't get as good as the best players, what do you do of your "content that grants special rewards should be done by everyone" in this case, or are you now the one bragging that everyone should be able to play pvp and get to the top of the podium?

> >

> > Yet, for some reason the same logic isn't applied to this jumping puzzle, that other people have spent time learning, and are now doing it without much difficulty (there's a youtube video of a 5yo doing this JP, FYI).

> > No... somehow... somehow? It's not the same, somehow it's not okay.... because this involves a different set of skills that are dexterity (cause pvp doesn't?!) "manual speed" and coordination?

> > So yeah, I absolutely fail to grasp that point, ESPECIALLY now that you tell me pvp is okay but jp isn't. If anything, pvp is closer to the concept of "Olympics", and much less people will accede the final rewards of pvp tournament.

> >

> > Who am I to tell you that you're wrong? Someone defending the right for everyone to enjoy all different kinds of content, and not to have their progress/achievements be diminished in favor of a minority of people who made abundantly clear they prefer/are better at certain content over other and are requesting these changes for their own convenience.

>

> Except that PvP is progressive and on top of that you do get rewards for just turning up in pvp.

 

Yes, how does that invalidate anything I said?

You're bad at PVP, you're still not gonna get the golden moa, or the final rewards. You still won't get the super title.

 

You can replace PvP by raids if you want for all I care. Yes you still get shards for failing at raids, but you won't get the LI, needed for the preciiious legendary armor.

 

And like every single kitten content in this game, some people think it's fair, some think it's unfair. The middle ground is: Let everyone have content made for them and stop complaining about the content you can't or don't wanna do.

[Mewcifer.5198]

People are forgetting that this is a festival event, so it isn't like raids. Festivals are meant to be fun and easygoing. They are specifically designed so that any player, new or old, can do it. That's why Ascent to Madness is set to such a low level. Raids are hardcore endgame content, it is unfair to compare the two.

 

Should everything in the game be easily available to everyone? No. That would devalue other people's time and hard work.

Should festival rewards be balanced to be easier to achieve then end-game content? Yes, that is the nature of festivals.

 

PvP is also an unfair comparison, because PvP at least gives rewards for showing up. It may not be the same rewards as winning every match but I could throw in hours of PvP time and still have something to show for it. Whereas I could, and probably have, thrown in hours of Clocktower time and gotten absolutely nothing.

 

However, Anet did provide a way to get the boots without the JP. If you look up guides you can get to 400 in any crafting profession with minimal gold. Whether this was intended as a way to help people who struggle with JPs or not, it does help people who struggle with JPs.

 

Would it really hurt to give a no-ap, no-title pity prize to people who donated hours to the JP to try and complete it but just don't have the skill or physical ability? No.

It would not really harm anyone. And maybe the pity prize could only have a chance of getting the boots. That way people can either overcome the JP, craft the boots, or grind away hours of the their life for a chance at it.

 

That being said, I am only trying to offer helpful and friendly discussion on the topic. My personal feelings is the pity prize is unnecessary for this festival.

[Daddicus.6128]

> @Zaltys.7649 said:

> > @Daddicus.6128 said:

> > Regarding the JP, I don't even bother trying any more. My reflexes are far too slow to succeed; I'm just too old to react that quickly. (And, it has NOTHING to do with memorizing the path, folks. So stop saying that.)

> It's all about memorization. There's no moving parts, so nothing that needs reflexes. The route is always exactly the same. It can be completed with muscle memory alone, I don't even pay much attention to it anymore when running it.

 

Well, we'll see what you have to say 30 years from now.

[Daddicus.6128]

> @Deihnyx.6318 said:

> Reflexes would fit a description of aoe triggering that you need to quickly dodge. Where AoE are "random"

> Here it's the exact same puzzle with everything happening exactly the same at the same time everytime you try it.

> It's how you beat it, not by having super reflexes but by knowing what's coming and the muscle memory to properly turn the camera, jump etc.

 

You're missing the point completely: I CAN'T turn the camera and jump at the speeds which the puzzle runs at. Yeah, some of it is memorization, but when you have to stop and wait for a pad to appear, plus turn towards it and then jump, it's just too hard for old people. You'll understand in a couple of decades.

[Daddicus.6128]

> @Coulter.2315 said:

> > @STIHL.2489 said:

> > > @zombyturtle.5980 said:

> > >

> > > You can craft the armor with a recipie you can buy. You dont need to do the JP to get it, its not gated.

> > Be that as it may, how does it diminish you if I get some token completion in a Holiday festival in a game? Is your ego that fragile that it would hurt you in some way to allow people to have their paltry rewards and complete objectives?

> >

> > Are we really going to be that petty over a Holiday event?

>

> Because you did not complete it. You can get the boots elsewhere, you're complaining over 5AP which you do not deserve as you did not achieve.

 

Ummm, it's a lot more than the AP. BOTH of the Halloween metas require completion of the JP. Without being able to do it, we're locked out of significant rewards.

[Daddicus.6128]

> @STIHL.2489 said:

> You all realize that something being challenging or hard by definition removes it from the "everyone being able to do it" category, just wanted to point that out, as some people don't seem to grasp that.

>

> Anyway.. so how about it Anet.. a reward for at least giving it a good try?

 

So, you're OK with discriminating against the elderly?> @MoarChaos.8320 said:

> There's no place for such a change. It's an achievement for being good enough at the jumping puzzle to complete it. And if you need it for the new blue book backpack you have the option to just craft the missing skin for completing one set of lunatic armor. So there's nothing you're missing except the achievement points for specifically doing the jumping puzzle, and to get all of them you have to do it 15 times.

 

Really? You want to explain how to get the end of the Mad Memories chain without it?

[troops.8276]

> @Deihnyx.6318 said:

> > @STIHL.2489 said:

> > > @OrbitalButt.5708 said:

> > > Insulting a disabled guy for telling you to get over yourself and stop playing the victim is a really good look

> >

> > How do you know you didn't insult someone with a disability first? Was it because I don't talk about it seeking to use it as a sympathy card?

> >

> > Wake Up Call, **A lot of people with disabilities play this game**. all kinds of disabilities, just because you flaunt yours, does not give you the right to talk down to anyone. because you have no idea what they are dealing with.

> >

> > But, you also bring up a good point with JP, Anet should put in alternate means for their JP's, in all their events due to the fact that there are quite a few people with disabilities that play this game that make it physically impossible for them to complete some tasks that do require fine motor control.

>

> I'm not physically able to farm all that gold to get all the prenium skins I want (because I work!), and I don't make enough money to credit farm them all.

> Conclusion: Anet should put in alternates methods.

>

> Your criteria are subjective and consequently there are always going to be people disagreeing, saying what you consider unfair is fair to them, while what you consider fair is unfair to them.

> This is the problem with this whole thread. Egos fighting egos, all pretending and using that same "ego" argument as if it mattered, as if rewards in a video game was anything but teasing one's ego.

>

> Also, using the disability argument to get what you want is a wildcard that can only be used so many times. I agree that it kinda work when it comes to nerfing story (Ohhh eater of souls nerf thread), but using it that much, especially for the content discussed in this thread, while there's additional ways of getting the infamous armor piece, is a little... I don't know, uncalled for? Sounds a bit like opportunism imho.

>

> > @troops.8276 said:

> > > @Deihnyx.6318 said:

> > > > @Nightshade.5924 said:

> > > > > @Deihnyx.6318 said:

> > > > > > @Nightshade.5924 said:

> > > > > > > @Deihnyx.6318 said:

> > > > > > > > @Nightshade.5924 said:

> > > > > > > > > @Deihnyx.6318 said:

> > > > > > > > > > @Nightshade.5924 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @STIHL.2489 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @troops.8276 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @Samnang.1879 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Can ppl pls stop complaining about the difficulty of things in this game???

> > > > > > > > > > > > > NOTHING in the game is that hard (save from getting god of pvp title).

> > > > > > > > > > > > > 90% of guild wars 2 content is easy and made for casuals, hearts, map events, low level fractals, stories. this jp is something that comes once every year, let the ppl who enjoy the challenge have their enjoyment of the challenge instead of making anet dum down all the content cuz u can't do it. its not fair and unreasonable.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > I think OP was 'complaining' about their own inability and not asking for it too be 'dumbed down'. Rather just wanting a 'different' way to complete it.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Something may be easy for you but that doesn't mean its easy for everyone. Just like how it was easy for me to understand what the OP actually meant. ;)

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Some things may be relatively easy for most people but may take time and time is a commodity that many don't have much of. Or as the 'no lifers' put it 'casual'.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > This was my point, it also stonewalls progress in many other activities, like the book, and the boots. If the clock tower was standalone, I'd be more then happy to avoid it and let people farm it for bags and whatever. But, since it's tied to a few other items, I don't think it's asking to much, to give a "You gave it your best" completion, after 100 tries.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > @Loboling.5293 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > I'm fine with this. I can't remember how many tries it took me. I don't think I ever would've gotten it if not for watching other people beat it, as I tried to keep up with them. It was one of the best feelings I had when I finally beat it, and now every year I do it still just to help others get up.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > However, if someone wants to avoid that high you get when you finally beat it, and you've been trying 100 times. I say, why not give it to you. You're missing one fun feeling when you beat it on your own.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, after 100 times if you haven't made any real progress, just give them the achievement. My opinion.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I agree, there should be some kind of maybe checkpoint, that have to reach for it to count.. like say.. you need to at least jump onto the platform that comes off the tower wall at the start. I know I fail getting past that point a lot. But getting to it would remove the AFK players at least.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > This is the Winter's Presence scenario all over again. What really kills me is all the people who are "It's easy, anyone can do it". I wish I could take these people and subject them to a series of REAL world trials of skill. Say shooting, car racing, billiards, orienteering, baseball, basketball, and a math test. And then I wish I could GRADE them on their success or lack thereof in ALL of those skills TOGETHER, and then say... you LOST your completion of the Clock Tower and NEVER can have it because you're not good enough in all these skills.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Because that is what ANet is doing by gating an armor piece behind this jumping puzzle. Jumping is a skill. Making it a timed event makes it DIFFICULT SKILL. VERY. Anyone who says otherwise is likely under 20 years old or possibly jumped up on illegal substances.

> > > > > > > > > > Personally, after the FIRST TWO TRIES at the CT, I just walked away. That was three, four years ago. I think I accidentally went in one other time. That's it. I play games to have fun, blow up/maim/kill mobs, to decompress and enjoy myself. I don't enjoy JP's, never have, NEVER will, and to have ANY content whatsoever gated behind a JP, especially a JP that is CLEARLY designed for very good to superior hand to eye co-ordination and reflexes is TOTALLY INSULTING TO ME PERSONALLY.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Anet needs to STOP insulting its customers in this fashion. I truly hope that THIS wintersday that Anet has come up with an ALTERNATE METHOD to gain the step currently covered by the WD JP. And I also hope that the next time that Anet considers gating something behind a uber crazy insane difficult JP, that they PROVIDE another pathway that is REASONALBE... and I also hope that they observe the stats on how many people AVOID the JP. Might give us some real numbers to talk about.

> > > > > > > > > > Nuff said.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Wow... I find it easy and a matter of muscle memory (aka yeah, anyone can do it) so I'm a kid or I take drugs?

> > > > > > > > > I can't even imagine what you think of raids lol.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I think you're the one insulting players who like trial and error challenges. Anet is just providing some very limited content that is based around that. The Clock Tower is one of them and so is trial and tribulations from SAB. There's still (Thanks gods) a playerbase for that kind of content, or games like Dark Souls, Binding of Isaac, Risk of Rain, whatever, would not be critical successes.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > It was challenging for me at first, I tried for hours the first year and I finally got it, and I will confirm what everyone else said, it's more memory muscle than anything, it's absolutely FINE if you don't want to spend time on that but stop asking for nerf just because you don't want to do that.

> > > > > > > > > I don't care what real skills you have irl, it doesn't matter, it's a video game, you're tested on the mechanics of that video game, and you're not automatically right or legitimate because you're having issues beating some content. This kind of behavior actually IS typical of this new generation of gamers that blame a game for offering challenge, something no older gamer who played during the golden age of video games would ever do.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > And that is why I was against the Eater of Soul nerf. The more you nerf a game, the more people want to keep nerfing it.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > "I tried for hours...." kinda says it all for me. I'll look into the armor thing, and I'll see just how easy or not it is to craft it. Given the trend displayed in Ascended crafting, I'm not exactly hopeful at this moment. And if you're insulted... that's too bad. Join the club, as I am insulted every time I contemplate having to do a JP for ANYTHING. A timed JP is NOT a trial and error puzzle. It is an exercise in high end reflexes, timing, and memory, both muscle and cognitive. Trial and error implies that you HAVE TIME to CONSIDER and ANALYZE the environment, and the TIME to form a STRATEGY and RESPONSE.

> > > > > > > > And I AM not asking for a nerf... I want an ALTERNATE method, like say complete x pvp games, or spend x time in wvw, something like that.... OR a version of the puzzle that doesn't sink into the death goo. NON timed, NON sinking, NON insane, in other words. Take away any real rewards if you want, just give me credit for completion, that'd be fine.

> > > > > > > > I've expressed a similar sentiment two years running in regards to the Winters Day JP, and still remain hopeful that the devs WILL eventually see reason. OH, and BTW.. the WD JP is WHY once I DID my two tries, I quit. I had tried the WD the previous December, and just about threw my laptop through a wall after about three hours of continually dying and getting nowhere. Two tries was all it took for me to see that the CT would be more of the same. The bottom line is... don't put ANYTHING, achievement points, gold, rewards, ANYTHING, behind something that CANNOT BE DONE BY EVERYONE. And I'd have to say that it's clear that TIMED JP's fall into that category. Last thing... I AM an older gamer and NO, I don't do raids, as a matter of fact. And that's part of my problem DOING this sort of puzzle. My reflexes simply are not up to it.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > There's a difference between feeling "frustrated" by content that you can't do and insulting players, like you did. One is taking a game too seriously, the other is attacking players not even because they were mean to you or anything but simply because they've done it, and are discussing how they're doing it with much more ease now that they assimilated how to do it.

> > > > > > > The clock tower is 100% trial and error. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind about that, and it's backed by a lot of people here who've actually done it more than 2 times.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > This is non sense to give you "completion" credit for something you haven't completed. Like... at all. I can discuss the argument that some stuff (like armor) is gated behind content that may seem challenging (but it's not gated since you can craft it), I don't have a problem with an easier version like SAB does, however if you haven't completed the "normal" tower, you haven't completed it.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > About your last paragraph... seriously if you want everything to be doable by everyone go play a telltale game that gives achievements for everyone. Seriously, this is a MMO, there is casual stuff, there is grind stuff, there is challenging stuff. Play what you like to play in this game and accept the fact that there's stuff in this game that isn't for you. AP, gold, rewards are gated behind everything and every mode.

> > > > > > > Unless you play WvW, PVP, PVE and Raids, you're gonna miss some of them, and that shows some self entitlement to want to remove some rewards just because you can't get rank 2000 in wvw, just because you can't win a pvp tournament, just because you can't finish all raids or just because you can't do a jumping puzzle!

> > > > > > > Oh and they should remove prenium skins I guess, since not everyone can farm the gold and not everyone has a heavy credit card?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Like seriously please realize how you would be impacting others by getting things done your way. Nobody can get everything, half of the fun is the journey to get there.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Insulting players. NO, I made a comment based on MY experience, observation and analysis. Obviously you didn't, since YOU missed the part on MY woes w/ the WD JP. EXPERIENCE AND WISDOM told me to NOT waste my time on something that I KNEW I wasn't going to be able to complete. See my muscle memory post in this thread for more detail.

> > > > > You did call players out for being on drugs or just kids, that's kind of an insult in my book.

> > > > > "Obviously" you're not gonna get anything out of that.

> > > > >

> > > > > > @Nightshade.5924 said:

> > > > > > Obviously you ALSO misunderstood my point about making a NON insane version of the MCT puzzle, One that would ONLY give a complete note or whatever, NOT rewards like AP's or skins or whatever. And you TOTALLY seem to be UNABLE to grasp the concept of this is game for EVERYONE.

> > > > > > There should BE NO CONTENT, NONE WHATSOEVER, THAT GRANTS POINTS OR SPECIAL REWARDS THAT IS GATED BEHIND SOMETHING THAT CANNOT BE DONE BY EVERYONE. THIS IS A M M O. DO YOU GET THAT? If said content grants a title or something similar that HAS NO VALUE BEYOND BRAGGING RIGHTS, then that's fine. IF you want a medal, go try out for the Olympics. IF you want a prize, go cure cancer or get two uber hostile countries to make peace. IF You want some bada$$ online gaming title, go become Halo V reigning deathmatch title holder or something like that.

> > > > > > Nuff said.

> > > > >

> > > > > Kinda hard since your logic is completely flawed.

> > > > > "This is a MMO so all content should be doable by everyone" Ah yeah? says who? I love when people throw their own opinions as objective truth. "Obviously" not everyone agree and you need to do a bit more work to convince people.

> > > > > Also, who are you to tell us what is fine or not? seriously what kind of self entitled individual dictate that it's ok to want super title to brag but somehow skins aren't ok?

> > > > > What do you do about prenium skins? Should they all disappear too because you decided EVERYONE SHOULD GET THEM BECAUSE ITS A M.M.O. DO YOU GET THAT?

> > > > >

> > > > > What even is "something that cannot be done by everyone". PVP tournaments are doable by everyone, but not everyone win, so not everyone get the gold mini pet, should they remove that too for you??

> > > > >

> > > > > YES I GET IT THIS IS A MMO

> > > > > And NO I do NOT agree that everything should be accessible for everyone. Actually it is accessible for everyone, but everyone has to achieve the same task, it is perfectly fine if some rewards are gated behind specific content because this is a video games and you must think about EVERYONE, not just the guy who wants everything now right now.

> > > > >

> > > > > This game IS for everyone, like you said.

> > > > > OBVIOUSLY

> > > > >

> > > > If something is gated behind a content that, as has been determined, CANNOT be done by everyone, then it isn't FOR everyone. ANYONE can PvP, it's combat, and frankly, if you can't DO combat, why are you even playing GW2? Anyone CAN WvW, it's combat again. Can everyone finish first place? Obviously NOT. So getting a special trophy for that, or a title, or a skin, OK. If anyone puts in the time, and also has a good team, uses a good build, then they have a chance to earn it. Not necessarily a good chance, but there you go.

> > > > But for a Jumping Puzzle to be made SO difficult that only people w/ a certain high degree of dexterity, manual speed and co-ordination are the ONLY ones that CAN complete it.. and then put prizes or whatever for completion... this is NOT the Olympics. This is a game. And you continually fail to grasp that point. Premium skins? Sell them at the cash shop. And you might want to check your own opinions etc ... who are you to tell me that I am wrong?

> > >

> > > So... wait.

> > >

> > > You can see and understand that pvp requires time, practice, getting good... that not everyone will get the final reward but that there's a journey/training to get there.

> > > So what do you do about people who can't get as good as the best players, what do you do of your "content that grants special rewards should be done by everyone" in this case, or are you now the one bragging that everyone should be able to play pvp and get to the top of the podium?

> > >

> > > Yet, for some reason the same logic isn't applied to this jumping puzzle, that other people have spent time learning, and are now doing it without much difficulty (there's a youtube video of a 5yo doing this JP, FYI).

> > > No... somehow... somehow? It's not the same, somehow it's not okay.... because this involves a different set of skills that are dexterity (cause pvp doesn't?!) "manual speed" and coordination?

> > > So yeah, I absolutely fail to grasp that point, ESPECIALLY now that you tell me pvp is okay but jp isn't. If anything, pvp is closer to the concept of "Olympics", and much less people will accede the final rewards of pvp tournament.

> > >

> > > Who am I to tell you that you're wrong? Someone defending the right for everyone to enjoy all different kinds of content, and not to have their progress/achievements be diminished in favor of a minority of people who made abundantly clear they prefer/are better at certain content over other and are requesting these changes for their own convenience.

> >

> > Except that PvP is progressive and on top of that you do get rewards for just turning up in pvp.

>

> Yes, how does that invalidate anything I said?

> You're bad at PVP, you're still not gonna get the golden moa, or the final rewards. You still won't get the super title.

>

> You can replace PvP by raids if you want for all I care. Yes you still get shards for failing at raids, but you won't get the LI, needed for the preciiious legendary armor.

>

> And like every single kitten content in this game, some people think it's fair, some think it's unfair. The middle ground is: Let everyone have content made for them and stop complaining about the content you can't or don't wanna do.

 

This jumping puzzles a one off thing no and for boots was it? You can afk through ranked pvp and get lots of stuff? A backpack? Thats why I used pvp because the reward is analogous. Can you afk through the jp and get lots of stuff? No?

Therefore, invalidated. Some of these are legit questions, I've just been playing devils advocate the whole time. To be fair if you'd started the thread and everyone came after you with a hard on, I'd probably have argued the other way.

 

EDIT: To clarify I'd have fought you're corner. Just as badly and unasked for too. Also, it's just the whole jumping on people for what a lot of the time is just letting of steam. And the claim that there was no effort in trying over and over again. This isn't just directed at you or this thread, its just a thing.