Giving core engi its niche

[Kuma.1503]

Core Engi needs something that makes it stand out from scrapper and Holo. I got to thinking, what is it that defines core engi?

 

My answer was "versatility". Core engi is all about kits. Engi's piano-like playstyle is what many veteran mains fondly remember about the core days.

 

**New:** Core Engineer now has improved kits.

 

Med Kit: Now has the _Health Insurance_ trait built in.

Grenades: Now has the _Grenadier_ trait built in.

Bombs: Bombs have shorter fuses.

Flamethrower: Has the Juggernaut trait built in.

Elixir Gun: Glob Shot now immobilizes. Super Elixir grants regen. Acid bomb knocks down foes on each pulse.

Tool Kit: Skills have reduced recharge

 

Each of the newly built in traits will be removed and replaced with new traits. Core Engi will be the go to specialization when your desire is to make the most out of your kits.

As further balance. Holo will lose a significant chunk of its sustain. Scrapper loses the vitality trade-off. Hammer damage buffed in PvP. Goals are to further distinguish the intended role of each engineer spec:

 

Holosmith - DPS

Core - Jack of all trades

Scrapper - Bruiser

[hotte in space.2158]

I would support your proposal, but do you really think devs are interested to work on core engi to make it viable ? I ld like to have your optimism man :)

[UNOwen.7132]

At that point my question would be, why would anyone play Holo anymore? Especially if you want to nerf its sustain which ... is almost entirely just core engineers sustain. Like what, are you gonna nerf heat therapy some more? If you want core engineer to be kit-focused, then you need to figure out what Holo is supposed to do. Sword is a good weapon, but with photon forge being a mediocre kit in all but name, thats not really enough.

[Kuma.1503]

> @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> At that point my question would be, why would anyone play Holo anymore? Especially if you want to nerf its sustain which ... is almost entirely just core engineers sustain. Like what, are you gonna nerf heat therapy some more? If you want core engineer to be kit-focused, then you need to figure out what Holo is supposed to do. Sword is a good weapon, but with photon forge being a mediocre kit in all but name, thats not really enough.

 

Holo is in a wierd place. We're currently stuck asking that same question of scrapper. Why play it when Holo does the bruiser role so much better? Why bring a support scrapper over a prot holo in teamfights? Scrapper's niche is cleanses and group healing, but that aspect was heavily nerfed, and Holo is capable of the same with Prime Light Arena + Inventions synergy.

 

Currently I can think of two options: Rework heat therapy into a dps trait and go all in with Holo as a glass canon dps. Going down this route would make it a more attractive option for raids.

 

Or rework scrapper into a support, giving it tools that actually make it relevant, and let Holo continue to be the bruiser spec.

 

If you can think of alternate options, I'd love to hear them. I would like to see more engi specs see play across each game mode.

[Shiyo.3578]

Holo needs to be a glass cannon DPS. Right now it's a cannon but without the glass. I think nerfing kits for holo and buffing them for base eng is a fantastic idea, because imo holo shouldn't even get kits due to it having photon forge, f1-f4 skills and a good mainhand weapon.

[Metzie.3012]

> @"Kuma.1503" said:

> Core Engi needs something that makes it stand out from scrapper and Holo. I got to thinking, what is it that defines core engi?

>

 

How about if the core engineer could switch weapons (in combat)? :)

 

 

[Kodama.6453]

> @"Metzie.3012" said:

> > @"Kuma.1503" said:

> > Core Engi needs something that makes it stand out from scrapper and Holo. I got to thinking, what is it that defines core engi?

> >

>

> How about if the core engineer could switch weapons (in combat)? :)

>

>

 

Would be pretty much worthless for power engineer and have very **very** small benefit for condi engineer.

Problem is the limited weapon pool. Power engineer just has 1 weapon, rifle. So you would basically be forced to take pistol/shield as the second weapon slot. This gives you 2 good defensive abilities with shield, but the rest of the weapon set will be worthless since pistol is condition focused.

 

For this to happen, Anet would first have to introduce new core weapon sets to the engineer.

[Kuma.1503]

> @"Metzie.3012" said:

> > @"Kuma.1503" said:

> > Core Engi needs something that makes it stand out from scrapper and Holo. I got to thinking, what is it that defines core engi?

> >

>

> How about if the core engineer could switch weapons (in combat)? :)

>

>

 

I was thinking of this as well. Either that, or giving them the ability to equip a kit as a weapon swap, but decided on empowered kits instead since they're iconic to the spec. More incentive to use them would be welcome.

 

Why I opted against weapon swap is because core engi simply doesn't have the weapon options to make this worth while. If they go this route, perhaps they could consider letting engi equip a kit or a weapon as their swap?

[UNOwen.7132]

> @"Kuma.1503" said:

> > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > At that point my question would be, why would anyone play Holo anymore? Especially if you want to nerf its sustain which ... is almost entirely just core engineers sustain. Like what, are you gonna nerf heat therapy some more? If you want core engineer to be kit-focused, then you need to figure out what Holo is supposed to do. Sword is a good weapon, but with photon forge being a mediocre kit in all but name, thats not really enough.

>

> Holo is in a wierd place. We're currently stuck asking that same question of scrapper. Why play it when Holo does the bruiser role so much better? Why bring a support scrapper over a prot holo in teamfights? Scrapper's niche is cleanses and group healing, but that aspect was heavily nerfed, and Holo is capable of the same with Prime Light Arena + Inventions synergy.

>

 

Well, prot holo is pretty bad now, so I imagine even support scrapper is better. The better question there is why bring scrapper when Tempest or Firebrand exists? Also I would disagree that holo does the bruiser role better. Because right now the only real defensive benefit holo provides is heat therapy, which lets be real here, is outclassed by impact savants consistent barrier. The problem is, why go bruiser when glass cannons are just as unkillable right now? Holo isnt unkillable because it runs a lot of powerful defenses (thats the thing. It doesnt). Its unkillable because the damage just is too low in general. Scrapper has another big issue. In the current unkillable state of sidenoders due to low damage, the most important thing to have is knockbacks. Hammer doesnt have one.

 

> Currently I can think of two options: Rework heat therapy into a dps trait and go all in with Holo as a glass canon dps. Going down this route would make it a more attractive option for raids.

>

 

Thats the issue. It already kinda is. With Prot Holo nerfed, Holo is almost as glass cannon-y as a spec can get. The vast majority of its survivability comes from core skills and core traits. Its only heat therapy, and heat therapy is not as big as the others.

 

> Or rework scrapper into a support, giving it tools that actually make it relevant, and let Holo continue to be the bruiser spec.

>

 

You would need to change tempest and firebrand to make this an option. Though perhaps that should be done anyway.

 

> If you can think of alternate options, I'd love to hear them. I would like to see more engi specs see play across each game mode.

 

Simple. Increase damage across the board. Scrapper is a bruiser spec, but thats meaningless in a meta where a glass cannon can fight on the sidenode for 7 minutes without ever dying. Were at least 20-30% below the damage of pre-HoT specialisation patch, and that should be the absolute bare minimum damage. Beyond that, I guess the first thing to do is to figure out what photon forge is supposed to be. Is it supposed to be a mediocre kit that enables the actually good traitlines and provides some mobility? Or is it supposed to be holos reaper shroud, in which case it needs to be *way* stronger in exchange for much bigger drawbacks.

[UNOwen.7132]

> @"Metzie.3012" said:

> > @"Kuma.1503" said:

> > Core Engi needs something that makes it stand out from scrapper and Holo. I got to thinking, what is it that defines core engi?

> >

>

> How about if the core engineer could switch weapons (in combat)? :)

>

>

 

That wouldnt really help. Rifle is a power weapon, pistol a condi weapon. There is no second weapon either type of engineer would want to use. If anything, core Engineer needs a mainhand power weapon. A mace, perhaps.