Scourge. The Good, The Bad and The Ugly.

[Vitali.5039]

> @Junkpile.7439 said:

> My trailblazer scourge is top DPS in PvE. Other people need to run back whole time while i facetank legendaries.

 

My viper reaper outdps tempests when i fight champions in bitterfrost thanks to underwater combat but those things are not important.

[obcan.1470]

> @Substatic.6958 said:

 

> > @obcan.1470 said:

> > And dont expect to play necro at all when you want to be best dps. Because that is never going to happen. Because of design and because of community. Noone likes necros, deal with it.

>

> So you're admitting the balance of this game is beyond horrible?

 

Balance in this game is great. You have a class that is hard to play, you get more rewards, you have class that is easy to play, you have less rewards why is it so hard to grasp? Also stop telling me that I have never tried to get good dps on necro. I dont have to. If necro deals more dps than engineer then one of them is fucked.

[obcan.1470]

> As it so happens, the day before the escort i spent hours in the golem working on my dps on my ele, and necro.I don't know how many people do that, i imagine everyone.I think your wrong, and i think those that are practicing for raids are preparing themselves, but we are in a niche area and we are limited to that, which prevents us from being really desired for most raids.THAT IS NOT GOOD!! I don't care if you love engi, fine love your engi, but its no excuse to leave necros in the dust.Yes complexity should have rewards, but by how much? also:There is a issue that a class with weak dps and weak support SHOULD HAVE AT LEAST SOMETHING VIABLE FOR RAIDS!!! there is no ifs or buts.How would you like it if holosmith was trashed and all of engi tomorrow was trashed and you coudln't raid? wouldn't you be mad after putting so much time to be told that you chose the wrong class? and yes i realize that engis suffer in spvp far more than necro, but i never in my life made fun of them or anything.Have some symphathy.Also yes necromancer does have its complexities, especially pvp.Don't expect for an example a newbie necro to be able to raid right away without learning where everything is.

 

If holosmith got trashed tomorow I wouldnt give a single fuck. Why? Because holosmith is already worse than core engi, I have 4 other DPS classes to swap to(I havent touched my engi for months now). Also who said you cant raid with necro? Reaper is still pulling 32k dps nothing changed at all, you are basically looking at zerker daredevil dps, if wooden potatoes could full clear as zerk engi with 29k dps you can by all means still raid as necro. Not as Scourge. As necro.

 

> > Also this isnt world of warcraft. You dont have to play 2000 hours per class to get meta gear. Meta gear after first full set is question of maybe 2 weeks if you hate yourself. You can by all means have main. But seriously dont expect to play necro all the kitten time. And dont expect to play necro at all when you want to be best dps. Because that is never going to happen. Because of design and because of community. Noone likes necros, deal with it.

>

> Actually, i think getting gear is probably easier in wow, as getting ascended gear takes a bit if you don't have a character with full gear already, simply because its random in fractals.

 

Thats exactly what I said but what ever.

 

> I guess you really hate necros wow

 

I liked necro for first week I made reaper, but when I realized how low dps this class can get I swapped to better classes. And no I did not expect anet to buff reaper so I can par my dps with thieves or elementalists when I have 4x their hp.

 

 

[TheLastNobody.8319]

> @obcan.1470 said:

> > @Substatic.6958 said:

>

> > > @obcan.1470 said:

> > > And dont expect to play necro at all when you want to be best dps. Because that is never going to happen. Because of design and because of community. Noone likes necros, deal with it.

> >

> > So you're admitting the balance of this game is beyond horrible?

>

> Balance in this game is great. You have a class that is hard to play, you get more rewards, you have class that is easy to play, you have less rewards why is it so hard to grasp? Also stop telling me that I have never tried to get good dps on necro. I dont have to. If necro deals more dps than engineer then one of them is kitten.

 

Wow man, who shat in your cereal this morning?

 

[obcan.1470]

> @Dadnir.5038 said:

 

> Nobody think that engi should be lower than necromancer, however, engi got very unique buff that can easily help all it's teammate that play condition build.

 

You really think that 150 Condi damage is good enough for 5k dps difference? Lets just assume you have CPS and Condi weaver. Qtfy says pinpoint distribution is around 1.5-2k dps buff. Lets just assume that Condi engi gives them both 2k. Engi then theoretically pulls to 1k dps difference, and thats assuming you got those two condi classes. If you have zerks then your buff is shit. Engi is still harder, more vulnerable than necro where is the logic in that?

 

> Now, we've seen you complain about the fact that it's hard to reach 47k as a weaver when a necro also struggle (yes struggle) to reach 32k. Does health point have anything to do with that? No.

 

How does health have nothing to do with dps? Do you even understand how scholar runes work? You get snezed on while playing ele and you loose 10% dps, thats 4.7k. You get downed twice as easily, you have to dodge a lot more frequently than any necro. Have you never seen raid before? Or you think every raid is kitty golem where people fight againist timers and eles win by default?

 

> You think that cPS doing the same damage as a scourge while giving 25 might, EA and banner is fair, balanced? Why? Is it because you have the illusion that scourge provide some support? You are aware that while you are struggling to reach 46k with your elementalist you naturally spit some support right?

 

I saw this point countless times already. WHAT SUPPORT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? WEAVER HAS NOTHING TO OFFER AS SUPPORT. NOT EVEN THE SHITTY PROTECTION TEMPEST GIVES. 0 SUPPORT AT ALL. To even "support" with CC you have to swap to elements like water or double air. Have you seen water rotation on weaver? It does not exist.

 

>The support that the scourge provide is as valuable for a group than the support an elementalist provide while doing it's top dps rotation. And well... there is a 15k dps difference between the 2.

 

What does this even mean?

 

> You can put it in every way you want, it is not "fair". Is the fact that condi tempest easily out dps condi reaper (which is at the moment our top dps spec) fair? I don't think so, after all, tempest is a "support" spec ain't it? Your whole logic is flawed and biased.

 

Yes I do think that tempest is shitty spec and deals way too much damage. The problem however is that eles would disappear from game for two years if tempest was trully a support, if they didnt do major class changes which they chose not to. Tempest had to be buffed to be good dps otherwise noone would play eles.

[obcan.1470]

> @Dadnir.5038 said:

> No the real issue is that he want complexity to be rewarding and think that the necromancer don't have any complexity. He don't even understand that in the game, the top spec don't necessarily use complex rotation. Most of all he deem the necromancer as the most bland profession to use.

 

I never said necro has no complexity, I said he shouldnt be on top. His complexity is way lower than engi and thats how I base my opinion on DPS. If your rotation is easier than engi you should deal lower dps. If you have more hp than engi, you should deal lower dps. If you have both then what the fuck do you expect?

 

> It's a typical case of someone that never played the profession in depth, that never touch the (very easy to touch) limits of the necromancer.

 

I dont need to. What I learned from playing any class that isnt engineer or elementalist is, that its easier to perfrom than those two. And tell me that playing necro is as hard as playing those two. Go on.

 

> Honestly, maining a profession should be something done after having thoroughly played all professions to discover each weakness and strength. Nobody should go and complain about another profession if they haven't done at least that.

 

Yes because we all have all the time in the world wasting time on obvious. Tell me if necro really was hard to play why would anet keep their dps on very end of the spectrum? Just because they are biased like me? Dont be a kid now really.

 

 

[obcan.1470]

One final thought for you guys though. If you were to balance the game and now lets talk seriously not your stupid fantasy where all classes deal same dps. If the difference of dps between classes was 1k. Where would you put necro?

 

 

[Lahmia.2193]

> @obcan.1470 said:

> One final thought for you guys though. If you were to balance the game and now lets talk seriously not your stupid fantasy where all classes deal same dps. If the difference of dps between classes was 1k. Where would you put necro?

>

>

 

I'd follow this simple rule: the more party support it gives, the lower the damage should be. The more selfish the class is, the more damage it does.

[Zoltreez.6435]

I keep this short....

 

Necros should do the Most amount of DMG above everyone else because they cant do anything else.....

[Dadnir.5038]

> @obcan.1470 said:

> > @Dadnir.5038 said:

>

> > Nobody think that engi should be lower than necromancer, however, engi got very unique buff that can easily help all it's teammate that play condition build.

>

> You really think that 150 Condi damage is good enough for 5k dps difference? Lets just assume you have CPS and Condi weaver. Qtfy says pinpoint distribution is around 1.5-2k dps buff. Lets just assume that Condi engi gives them both 2k. Engi then theoretically pulls to 1k dps difference, and thats assuming you got those two condi classes. If you have zerks then your buff is kitten. Engi is still harder, more vulnerable than necro where is the logic in that?

>

 

This buff that you easily dispatch as trash is a free support to your whole group DPS. It's one of the very things that can make a profession attractive in group content. With all the boons, vast array of soft conditions, fields diversity and combo finishers, the engineer is a natural support who help it's team.

 

> > Now, we've seen you complain about the fact that it's hard to reach 47k as a weaver when a necro also struggle (yes struggle) to reach 32k. Does health point have anything to do with that? No.

>

> How does health have nothing to do with dps? Do you even understand how scholar runes work? You get snezed on while playing ele and you loose 10% dps, thats 4.7k. You get downed twice as easily, you have to dodge a lot more frequently than any necro. Have you never seen raid before? Or you think every raid is kitty golem where people fight againist timers and eles win by default?

>

 

Health have nothing to do with dps for a very simple reason: survivability is balanced based on "Ehp" which mean effective health pool and all professions have similar "Ehp". The fact that the necromancer have an Ehp that is easier to read doesn't mean that it's Ehp is higher than the Ehp of the elementalist. I've done enough instanced content in five year to put you to shame. I've seen every group composition possible, played every profession possible throught this instanced content to say very accurately that the necromancer high health pool does not give him any advantage when it come to dps. A good elementalist will never get down and still manage to dish out damage and boon support while defending himself.

 

> > You think that cPS doing the same damage as a scourge while giving 25 might, EA and banner is fair, balanced? Why? Is it because you have the illusion that scourge provide some support? You are aware that while you are struggling to reach 46k with your elementalist you naturally spit some support right?

>

> I saw this point countless times already. WHAT SUPPORT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? WEAVER HAS NOTHING TO OFFER AS SUPPORT. NOT EVEN THE kitten PROTECTION TEMPEST GIVES. 0 SUPPORT AT ALL. To even "support" with CC you have to swap to elements like water or double air. Have you seen water rotation on weaver? It does not exist.

>

 

Ok, let's go:

- Fields: fire field are great source of might but also burn, water field are great source of heal and regeneration and thanks god those fields are always welcome.

- Combo finisher: blast.

- Power weaver take a trait that make them grant fury when blasting a fire field.

- The arcane variant build grant boons to your allies upon switching attunment

There is more but that's what you call support. You can say that a weaver grant as much defensive support as a scourge that trait for dps and grant as much offensive support as a scourge that trait for dps with just that.

 

> >The support that the scourge provide is as valuable for a group than the support an elementalist provide while doing it's top dps rotation. And well... there is a 15k dps difference between the 2.

>

> What does this even mean?

 

That mean that weaver still give some support and do up to 15k more dps than a scourge doing it's best ATM.

 

>

> > You can put it in every way you want, it is not "fair". Is the fact that condi tempest easily out dps condi reaper (which is at the moment our top dps spec) fair? I don't think so, after all, tempest is a "support" spec ain't it? Your whole logic is flawed and biased.

>

> Yes I do think that tempest is kitten spec and deals way too much damage. The problem however is that eles would disappear from game for two years if tempest was trully a support, if they didnt do major class changes which they chose not to. Tempest had to be buffed to be good dps otherwise noone would play eles.

 

Oh, that quite nice you allow me to "rebound" here. The necromancers here don't want to disappear from the PvE game for 2 years as well even if they already disappeared from it since 5 years ago.

 

> @obcan.1470 said:

> > @Dadnir.5038 said:

> > No the real issue is that he want complexity to be rewarding and think that the necromancer don't have any complexity. He don't even understand that in the game, the top spec don't necessarily use complex rotation. Most of all he deem the necromancer as the most bland profession to use.

>

> I never said necro has no complexity, I said he shouldnt be on top. His complexity is way lower than engi and thats how I base my opinion on DPS. If your rotation is easier than engi you should deal lower dps. If you have more hp than engi, you should deal lower dps. If you have both then what the kitten do you expect?

>

 

In all honnesty, the necromancer's rotation is not easier than the engineer rotation. You have to time your only ice field, place yourself carefully in it to achieve something for which the engineer just need to smash button. The necromancer also have to carefully keep in mind it's cool down so that he can corrupt himself safely and send back the comdition he put on himself on it's foe. It might seem easier from your point of view but, the necromancer have to watch what he do, the engineer just have to smash skills on cd without worrying on whether or not he will be able to cope with the consequences of it's actions. And like I already said, engi have as much Ehp than the necromancer.

 

> > It's a typical case of someone that never played the profession in depth, that never touch the (very easy to touch) limits of the necromancer.

>

> I dont need to. What I learned from playing any class that isnt engineer or elementalist is, that its easier to perfrom than those two. And tell me that playing necro is as hard as playing those two. Go on.

>

 

This only show me that you lack practice with both engineer and elementalist if you think that. Honnestly, these 2 professions are all about rythm, the moment you catch the rythm, the professions become really simple to play and absolutely not harder than any other. But your way of seeing this was very common in the first 4 month of the game release until some elementalists caught the knack of it and kicked everybody's a** in WvW and PvP to the point that complaints rose (that's some old memories now).

 

> > Honestly, maining a profession should be something done after having thoroughly played all professions to discover each weakness and strength. Nobody should go and complain about another profession if they haven't done at least that.

>

> Yes because we all have all the time in the world wasting time on obvious. Tell me if necro really was hard to play why would anet keep their dps on very end of the spectrum? Just because they are biased like me? Dont be a kid now really.

>

 

You do have the time to complain here why wouldn't you have the time to gain some in depth understanding of the professions before coming here? Non competitive sPvP is here for that afterall: test professions and builds while looking for each pro and cons. Who said that "if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be put at risk even in a hundred battles"?

 

 

[Aetatis.5418]

since we are still not talking about pvp and wvw(roaming !), where any necro spec is killed by 7/9 classes, because the healthpool does absolutely nothing vs. stunlock or super high bursts (or sustained super high damage, with the ability to engage and disengage whenever they want), i still want to point out that the healthpool in pve is a HUGE advantage.

40k life? boss does sweeps of 30k? the shroud-specs can easily survive, even if they mess up. scourge on the other hand already struggles, right? but in theory scourge is a "heavy" supporter so less dps than any other class is fine.

 

it is fine, that one class is the bottom dps/utility in pve. and there is so many things pointing out that this class should be necro. i agree.

however - playing a class that you really enjoy (no matter if it is theme based or skin based or single skill number based *gravedigger, full power*) and being told by the player community, that you are "not allowed" to play in 2/3 of the game, just feels horribly wrong and i blame it on the design and decisions made, but above all: the community. because raids and fractals can be done with less than a perfect 47k dps and not losing too much time on a boss-timer. the risk of having to deal with one more phase of some hard hitting/wiping mechanic stays ofc, i wont deny that.

 

i dont feel like necro deserves to be higest dps, but i think necro deserves to be wanted, or atleast to be tolerated, because they are not a total loss of everything and instead being an alternative. (not the best alternative, but an okay one?). i dont see necro in even a close spot to that. there is absolutely nothing a necro offers to a group. i also fear like there is nothing coming to change the situation.

all "we" were asking for (be it power reaper, core necro or scourge) got turned into something that worsened the situation?

 

however, coming back to scourge. if all the other specs didnt get any attention - scourge as a selling machine for pof should atleast get some love to be accepted in the content mentioned (i still blame the community... mostly... necro is like the gay guy in the 70's or 80's. not being hunted anymore, but faaaaar away from being accepted. the difference is, a "higher entity" (anet) could change it into the better - they just dont want to)?

 

#redundancy

 

 

 

 

 

[Brighteluden.2974]

lol as a necro main since launch this guy is basing everything on our HP and how supposedly tanky that makes us. When we in the end lack mobility, blocks, invulnerability, stability and other great boons other classes have more availability to. He's also basing how if a class is simplistic to play should then deal less damage then a class that require more complexity when as people stated there are plenty of classes with easier rotations and still out DPS us by a huge margin. Man, ignorance is bliss eh

[Rym.1469]

I am okay with Scourge as a whole. My biggest complaint would be that Scourge wasn't pushed nearly as far as it could've been. It leaves me with a feeling of deficiency.

 

* There are no mechanics associated with Barrier (besides the cleanse). Maybe it's a matter of a clean design, but for a specialization that's supposed to be a lot about Barriers there isn't really an awful lot for them.

 

* There are no traits or skills that would take advantage of some particular shade positioning. Shades performing an attack in a line between them and other shades/player, creating a ward in a similar way (shade-shade-player area). Possibly swapping player position with an existing Shade. A lack of these creates a situation where potentially strategic placement of the thing boils down to placing it on top of the enemy or on the node.

 

* This is probably far too nuanced, but being able to space out the F2-F5 for each shade would make for some cool plays. Fearing from one Shade into fear from the other Shade for example. But treat this as wishful thinking.

 

* Not a fan of Sand Savant existing. It takes away the possibilities described in the second point above, goes against what Scourge is meant to be. It also takes place of something that should've been a support-focused trait - something to do with Barriers.

 

Besides that, Dessicate and Serpent Siphon are rather uneventful utilities, but every elite specialization gets one or two of those.

 

Feed from Corruption is the banger of this specialization, wish I could afford to use it more.

 

 

 

 

[Dadnir.5038]

> @Aetatis.5418 said:

> since we are still not talking about pvp and wvw(roaming !), where any necro spec is killed by 7/9 classes, because the healthpool does absolutely nothing vs. stunlock or super high bursts (or sustained super high damage, with the ability to engage and disengage whenever they want), i still want to point out that the healthpool in pve is a HUGE advantage.

> 40k life? boss does sweeps of 30k? the shroud-specs can easily survive, even if they mess up. scourge on the other hand already struggles, right? but in theory scourge is a "heavy" supporter so less dps than any other class is fine.

 

Bosses do not sweep for 30k (thanks god, otherwise everybody would play profession with large health pool and low health pool profession would be out of the picture). The fact is that the raids boss have mechanics that hit you for a large percentage of your health pool. Whether you got 10k hp or 40k hp their "big sweep" just reduce undiscriminately your health by 80% of your hp. And one could easily argue that it's a hell lot harder to recover 80% of a large health pool than it is for a tiny health pool, that also one of the reason scholar runes work better with low hp professions.

 

I really feel old when I see bias like those... A large health pool only really benefit you when you are fighting in an area that threaten you with loads of conditions (mainly against other players). I understand that a lot of player have a background of other game behind them where the archetype of the tanky guy is tons of health and big armor but guild wars 2 do not follow those archetypes. You do not gain tantamount of survivability because you have an higher health pool. You do not take toughness to mitigate the damage you'll take, you take it so that the mobs will keep it's aggro on you. And keep in mind that armors are mainly cosmetic, a zerk warrior take as much damage as a zerk elementalist.

 

None of the mechanisms that we find in guild wars 2 are tanky friendly. If it happen, it quickly have some feedback in sPvP and the nerf hammer never fail to fall asap.

 

And lastly, scourge is _not_ a heavy supporter, scourge have the possibility to trait for "heavy" support (upper line). But scourge also have the possibility to trait for personnal benefit (bottom line) and dps (mid line). The whole uproar in the necromancer subforum happen because a scourge that trait for dps (mid line) barely reach the level of dps that a warrior that trait for "heavy" support reach.

 

 

[Substatic.6958]

> @obcan.1470 said:

> Tell me if necro really was hard to play why would anet keep their dps on very end of the spectrum? Just because they are biased like me? Dont be a kid now really.

 

Firebrand, Renegade, Condi tempest/weaver, CPS/DPS Zerker, and Soulbeast are easier to play or just as easy to play. Even QT shows this through their difficulty scale. I concur as I play all classes. They do considerably higher dps and some even provide superior support.

 

You have no argument grounded in reality or facts.

 

 

[Taygus.4571]

> @obcan.1470 said:

> > @Substatic.6958 said:

>

> > > @obcan.1470 said:

> > > And dont expect to play necro at all when you want to be best dps. Because that is never going to happen. Because of design and because of community. Noone likes necros, deal with it.

> >

> > So you're admitting the balance of this game is beyond horrible?

>

> Balance in this game is great. You have a class that is hard to play, you get more rewards, you have class that is easy to play, you have less rewards why is it so hard to grasp? Also stop telling me that I have never tried to get good dps on necro. I dont have to. If necro deals more dps than engineer then one of them is kitten.

 

So why does war have better support and dmg than necro? Shouldn't they be equal. ..you can't tell me war is hard to play.

[Zoltreez.6435]

> @Taygus.4571 said:

> > @obcan.1470 said:

> > > @Substatic.6958 said:

> >

> > > > @obcan.1470 said:

> > > > And dont expect to play necro at all when you want to be best dps. Because that is never going to happen. Because of design and because of community. Noone likes necros, deal with it.

> > >

> > > So you're admitting the balance of this game is beyond horrible?

> >

> > Balance in this game is great. You have a class that is hard to play, you get more rewards, you have class that is easy to play, you have less rewards why is it so hard to grasp? Also stop telling me that I have never tried to get good dps on necro. I dont have to. If necro deals more dps than engineer then one of them is kitten.

>

> So why does war have better support and dmg than necro? Shouldn't they be equal. ..you can't tell me war is hard to play.

 

atm a War is a better reaper..... with more versatile options and tools.... and almost same HP lol

[Zoltreez.6435]

Forum lag double post... lol

[Atticus.7194]

Lets go by this step by step shall we?

 

>Furthemore whats your problem with necro being on the very end of the dps ladder? You do have one of the easier rotations, most defensive stats, and short cast times

 

Scourges actually had a fairly complex rotation that involved keeping shades up, triggering their abilities, weapon swapping for sigils and using all but one (passive) ability on your skillbar.

 

Actually warriors have the most defensive stats AND unless you weren't paying attention we sacrificed our BIG defensive ability shroud for shades so you can't really hold that against us anymore.

 

As for short cast times, uh most classes have short cast times, are you just complaining because MS has a long one? Come on.

 

> Also if you really feel betrayed by anet for fixing that kitten in pvp then mate you really are worst kind of kitten. If you really want to feel what betrayal looks like, ask engi mains. Only relevant pve build is old as game. And even then it sucks compared to even HoT specs. Necros shouldnt feel betrayed. You chose tankiest class in game dont expect good dps.

 

The point is engineers and holosmiths at least have A VIABLE build, scourges do not. You may not like their builds but at least they're there. Do they need love too? Absolutely but one class being screwed over by ArenaNet does not negate what's happened to another, what kind of thinking is that?

 

And again, we did not choose the tankiest class in the game ESPECIALLY scourges who again sacrificed that ONE major defensive mechanic that made us so tanky (shroud) for shades.

 

So please tone down the hyperbole.

 

 

[mygamingid.5816]

> @Dadnir.5038 said:

> Ok, let's go:

> - Fields: fire field are great source of might but also burn, water field are great source of heal and regeneration and thanks god those fields are always welcome.

> - Combo finisher: blast.

> - Power weaver take a trait that make them grant fury when blasting a fire field.

> - The arcane variant build grant boons to your allies upon switching attunment

 

* Fields: Fire fields are in the rotation, but water sure isn't. It'd be a big DPS loss.

* Combo Finishers: Earth 2 is in the rotation, Water 2 definitely isn't. That's one blast finisher.

* Fury: You aren't getting Fury from other sources? Yes, you can self-apply Fury, but the fire field duration is the more important element.

* Arcane Variant: (in my best Necro voice) "Those boons are already provided by the other specs and some do it better, I'm useless!" Might will be at 25 stacks and Swiftness will be up, regardless. Protection is of dubious merit, since all that matters is DPS, right? I like it (a lot), but I don't care for DPS check gameplay. Playing Arcane variant also means no Vulnerability, so you may not cap that.

 

> That mean that weaver still give some support and do up to 15k more dps than a scourge doing it's best ATM.

 

From qT:

"3. Current Viability

 

With Path of Fire Weaver made it’s appearance and it was apparent right from the start that it would be one of the highest DPS classes. On the golem that’s true but in reality Weaver is very weak with the exception of a few bosses. This is due to some reasons

 

* If you play the Arcane Variant you apply no Vulnerability since you also lose access to Overload Air, meaning your group might not even cap Vulnerability.

* You don’t have access to any CC apart from your Deep Freeze. Gust is a major DPS loss because you have to double attune into Air.

* In Wing 1 and Wing 3 Weakness can’t be applied to any boss so you have to run with Signet of Fire and an Accuracy Sigil resulting in a substantial DPS loss

* You lose the Protection and Stability from Overloading resulting in an even squishier class and a more interruptable rotation.

 

The result of this is that Weaver is not that great in an actual raid and is quite lackluster compared to Tempest with the exception of a few bosses."

 

Weaver will only hit that number against large-hitbox golems, not in actual raids. The performance has been wildly overstated. It is ridiculously fragile and the Weaver mechanic costs it a lot of DPS if it has to derail from the rotation - and it will have to derail from the rotation in play.

[mygamingid.5816]

The biggest complaint appears to be that Warriors are too good given the support they bring. I totally agree. Their damage should be maybe a little above similarly-spec'd Druids. That isn't saying "buff Druid!" that's saying Warriors need a nerf. They outperform in all game modes. Necro should be ahead of both Warrior and Druid.

 

[Jinks.2057]

Why is it people believe a fixing of a bug is a nerf when in reality it's a bug fix?

 

My Necro is fine in all aspects of the game I couldn't be happier with that character. The truth is scourge needs more nerfs come next balance patch b/c it's still too oppressive in PvP.

[Substatic.6958]

> @obcan.1470 said:

> > @Substatic.6958 said:

>

> > > @obcan.1470 said:

> > > And dont expect to play necro at all when you want to be best dps. Because that is never going to happen. Because of design and because of community. Noone likes necros, deal with it.

> >

> > So you're admitting the balance of this game is beyond horrible?

>

> Balance in this game is great.

 

Huh? What data are you basing this off of? Compared to what game?

 

GW2 has some of the worst PVE balance on the market for a highly played MMO. The differences are up to 25-50% or less DPS for MANY specs, it's wildly sporadic and in no way balanced among elites or vanilla specs. Only 3 specs make up the trinity. (These first 3 sentences explain why Scourge is worthless in PVE.) A proper example of great balance would be in the current iteration of WoW, which has a ~10% max Delta across ALL DPS specs (with most near average) and a trinity that allows multiple classes per specialty role.

 

Sadly the targeting and legendary system in WoW is a pure mess, and everything worth doing is purely instanced with mostly 5-20 players. No "massive" feel of GW2.

 

You lied about difficulty (Scourge is rated similar to most higher DPS classes which also provide better support) and now you're lying about a very generalized statements.

 

 

[Methuselah.4376]

> @Jinks.2057 said:

> Why is it people believe a fixing of a bug is a nerf when in reality it's a bug fix?

>

> My Necro is fine in all aspects of the game I couldn't be happier with that character. The truth is scourge needs more nerfs come next balance patch b/c it's still too oppressive in PvP.

 

While it is true that in general PvE the bug fix is not too big a problem, Scourge is balanced in PvP now. It is no more "oppressive" than a Deadeye or trap DH. Indeed, power damage really wrecks a scourge. So no no more nerfs needed. Actually the developers have confirmed that they will boost the power of scourge to reach higher dps than it is dealing now, not as high as before but I think enough to make it raid viable.

 

And for condi reaper to reach 32k of damage, you have to assume that chill fields will never be overwritten. This is why condi Scourge was also a relief; it wasn't just a damage boost but also made you more independent and not having to rely on chill fields. Yes you rely on shades as a scourge but nothing interferes with those, except mobility, so there's it's Achilles's heel.

[Zefiris.8297]

> @Jinks.2057 said:

> Why is it people believe a fixing of a bug is a nerf when in reality it's a bug fix?

 

Look up the definition of a nerf, then you'll understand. It does not matter why an ability is weaker now, what makes it a nerf is that it is weaker.

 

It is, in fact, possible for an ability to be nerfed entirely unintentionally. If a developer accidentally turns a 10 into an 1 in a multiplier, the ability is now 90% weaker, and got a drastic nerf, while nobody had any intention to do so. Happened before.

 

> My Necro is fine in all aspects of the game

 

No, your necro is the worst in all aspects of the game when it comes to PVE, no way around it. Other classes do everything a necro does better. This was even confirmed by a dev, which is why a dps buff for scourge is coming.

There's more to the game than PVP, and once you open yourself up to this, instead of obsessing over the one time a Scourge destroyed you in PVP, you'll see that.

 

>Weaver will only hit that number against large-hitbox golems, not in actual raids. The performance has been wildly overstated.

 

Exactly like Scourge before the nerf. The only difference is, you play Weaver, so you realize this, while you still have very little understanding of scourge or Necro as a whole.