Sylvyn.4750 Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 > @"Strider Pj.2193" said: > > @Chaba.5410 said: > > > @"Strider Pj.2193" said: > > > > @Sylvyn.4750 said: > > > > > @"Strider Pj.2193" said: > > > > > > @Vermillion.4061 said: > > > > > > 22. Blackgate - Tier 1 NA 64158 > > > > > > 23. Fort Aspenwood - Tier 3 NA 61954 > > > > > > 24. Jade Quarry - Tier 2 NA 61871 > > > > > > 25. Elona Reach [DE] - Tier 5 EU 61500 > > > > > > 26. Crystal Desert - Tier 4 NA 58948 > > > > > > Top 6 are EU, but they do get an 8-9 hour headstart > > > > > > That's activity, kills+deaths > > > > > > > > > > > > Give back DH's host status. > > > > > > > > > > I guess being careful what numbers people look at: by these, BG is the 5th LEAST active server(across NA AND EU). > > > > > > > > > > > > > When you map blob to play Siege Wars 2 for the PPT, you don't end up with a lot of kills/deaths... > > > > > > And there are at least 4 other examples that would appear to contradict what you are noting. > > > > Like Crystal Desert? xD Clearly they map hop for Siege Wars 2 PPT a lot... /sarcasm > > > > What we're really seeing in that list is the population sizes of each team put together with links by Anet. > > Agreed Chaba. > > My original quote was relating to the conclusions someone made based on that list. > > I think most of that data listed is too vague to truly relate it to any actual outcome or conclusion. Pretty much...the data is hard to relate to the results that we're seeing in game...one server may capture and hold T3 keeps & towers and not generate much "activity" but still handily win, while another server doesn't like to PPT but likes to fight and may or may not win most of those fights, but their activity level and tier may not match up, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LetoII.3782 Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 _when_ your people are on is far more important than _how many_ A server can dominate when 80% of the playing population is on and still have no chance of winning the week. I'd say some servers actually benefit from keeping fights to a minimum, score wise Even go to extremes like not playing sometimes to keep their overall hours played down... No names named of course Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joneirikb.7506 Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 > @Jeknar.6184 said: > There is no "fair" when the Full threshold is nowhere close of the activity of the Top server. But honestly, returning the Dead T8 is just as bad as this. I've been down there for 2 years and I know it's not pretty. Even in the current T4 sometimes I feel the map is empty. I can only imagine what would be a Matchup between AR/ET/IoJ currently. Problably 5 people of each server running in circles around EBG while the borderlands are empty. Like the "good ole days". I'm shocked that Kaineng for some reason is listed as "High", I don't know how, but the servers must be on crack. But you know, at this stage, I'd be tempted to move if they made a Tier5 like that (finally a good excuse to try ET). Dunno, probably just the nostalgia, but I miss it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunateric.3708 Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 > @Jeknar.6184 said: > > @Reverence.6915 said: > > If DH was visible in the SBI linking at all I’d consider supporting the move. Every time I tag up (2-3 times a week), DH would make up less than 1/4 of the squad. Usually just 1 or 2 people in a squad of 20-30 people. > > > > Considering the position of SBI on the ladder, you want... host status? > > I stumble in Dh people much more often than on SBI. Granted, I don't run with squads unless I am extremely bored. > There are times of the day when the only tagged person is from Dh and SBI pugs are nowhere to be found. Yes, most of Dh NA is problably long gone (Although I can still name quite a few NA guilds who still run regularly) but Dh is definetely out there and in much more numbers than you claim. > > In the other hand, when I'm on my alt on BP, all I see are BP tags and guilds running. CD is nowhere to be found outside the ocasional [VII] raid. I can't remember the last time I saw a queue on my alt for the past link. > > And for SBI position in the ladder, Have you thought about questioning your own server? There is a certain trio of guilds in SBI that sometimes have a map queued for themselves but the only thing we own in that map are 2 camps and a paper spawn tower. You're turning your arguments into subjective, biased remarks. You don't really know numbers or statistics about anything server related but truth be told SBI is a server several times bigger than DH in WvW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reverence.6915 Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 I never play NA prime. I’m at work during those hours. I’m an OCX to SEA player. Something DH seems to not have any of Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeknar.6184 Posted October 22, 2017 Author Share Posted October 22, 2017 > @joneirikb.7506 said: > > @Jeknar.6184 said: > > There is no "fair" when the Full threshold is nowhere close of the activity of the Top server. But honestly, returning the Dead T8 is just as bad as this. I've been down there for 2 years and I know it's not pretty. Even in the current T4 sometimes I feel the map is empty. I can only imagine what would be a Matchup between AR/ET/IoJ currently. Problably 5 people of each server running in circles around EBG while the borderlands are empty. Like the "good ole days". > > I'm shocked that Kaineng for some reason is listed as "High", I don't know how, but the servers must be on crack. > > But you know, at this stage, I'd be tempted to move if they made a Tier5 like that (finally a good excuse to try ET). Dunno, probably just the nostalgia, but I miss it. I heard Kaineng received quite a fat load from JQ recently. That would explain the change from Medium to High. As for creating Tier 5, I think it is viable, but anything below that is very likely to be a complete wasteland. The "T8 servers of today" problably don't even compare to the "T8 of the past" which wasn't exactly what one would call healthy. Hell, I spent 2 years in the bottom of the barrel beating my head against empty Towers and Keeps to see if somenthing would show up to no avail most of the time, principally if it wasn't NA Prime. You, as a Kaineng player, know this better than me. However, not long ago, we had other Guest servers listed as Very High (Gate of Madness, Ehmry Bay and Sorrow's Furnace) so there is activity out there somewhere that could problably open another tier. The biggest issue with population is happening in the top end of the ladder, but to be honest, I couldn't care less about T1 myself when Arena Net is unwilling to let other servers match Blackgate population/activity (You get labeled as full long before you can even compete). No wonder every server that hit bottom of T1 drop down 2 tiers after the experience. It must be really miserable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stand The Wall.6987 Posted October 22, 2017 Share Posted October 22, 2017 good luck jeks may the glicko be with you blah blah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arius.7031 Posted October 22, 2017 Share Posted October 22, 2017 > @Lunateric.3708 said: > > @Jeknar.6184 said: > > > @Reverence.6915 said: > > > If DH was visible in the SBI linking at all I’d consider supporting the move. Every time I tag up (2-3 times a week), DH would make up less than 1/4 of the squad. Usually just 1 or 2 people in a squad of 20-30 people. > > > > > > Considering the position of SBI on the ladder, you want... host status? > > > > I stumble in Dh people much more often than on SBI. Granted, I don't run with squads unless I am extremely bored. > > There are times of the day when the only tagged person is from Dh and SBI pugs are nowhere to be found. Yes, most of Dh NA is problably long gone (Although I can still name quite a few NA guilds who still run regularly) but Dh is definetely out there and in much more numbers than you claim. > > > > In the other hand, when I'm on my alt on BP, all I see are BP tags and guilds running. CD is nowhere to be found outside the ocasional [VII] raid. I can't remember the last time I saw a queue on my alt for the past link. > > > > And for SBI position in the ladder, Have you thought about questioning your own server? There is a certain trio of guilds in SBI that sometimes have a map queued for themselves but the only thing we own in that map are 2 camps and a paper spawn tower. > > You're turning your arguments into subjective, biased remarks. You don't really know numbers or statistics about anything server related but truth be told SBI is a server several times bigger than DH in WvW. It's not subjective or biased that Dh is the only very high server not host. It's not subjective or biased that Dh has always had strong off hour coverage (probably stronger than CD even if we're smaller overall, we have JNT/Sotd, remember). It's not subjective or biased that CD, as a host, has had it rough for ages and it's stale in that tier largely due to how small CD is. That's not to say Jeknar is correct but the idea that what he's saying is purely subjective or biased is simply false. There's a reasonable argument to be made that something different from CD should be tried, even if it ends up not being true, there are valid points to be made. If that's the case, the natural answer is Dh who is the largest non-host server by pretty well every metric. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arius.7031 Posted October 22, 2017 Share Posted October 22, 2017 > @SkyShroud.2865 said: > If DH is truly a host server size then SBI won't be in tier 4, why would two host servers qualified link be in T4? So we determine server size by ppt now? You realize we destroyed CD and TC, and we're currently competing with two double links (who, btw, both have some of the largest non host servers in SF and EBay). SBI's NA sucks at ppt. If you knew SBI, you'd know that. We nearly always have more numbers in NA than our opponents, and nearly always have a weak ppt to show for it. That's why we're placed lower. Note the amount of kills we get, and the kdr, and how we consistently beat non tier 2 servers in those regards. Only server in all of NA with more kills than us right now, is JQ. > @Reverence.6915 said: > I never play NA prime. I’m at work during those hours. I’m an OCX to SEA player. Something DH seems to not have any of We don't have OCX, we have SEA though. I guess you've missed SotD and JNT lol? I'm also a SEA player and most of SBI's SEA seems to me to be Dh, not SBI. You must factor in Dh is mostly sorted into smaller guilds who run together, we don't pug around on main tag as much as SBI does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerby.1069 Posted October 22, 2017 Share Posted October 22, 2017 I mean If you want to rid of confusion why even have server names to begin with? Just use colours. Then we can all type B for blue R for red, G for greed when doing callouts or hollar in teamspeak and everyone is on the same page. The nameplates are baka huge atm. Anyone new looking at this would think it ridiculous you have an entire sentence of redundant information above everyones head. I mean that's why you replaced it with dots in the ui no? Do urself a favour and simplify it further. Its more inline with your stance against trolling and singling out other players as well. People carry grudged in this game, they would have a harder time with just knowing the enemy as a greeen team that changes its playerbase each week. And if you do somethign like that we can simplify other components as well. I mean all enemy show up as orange dots all the time.....why not indicate which colour they are specifically rather than us having to rely on callouts and seeing it ourselves? COuld easily do a spec of green/blue in each dot so if you look closely you can figure it out. Heck even doing straight up green/blue would be better in many cases to be honest. Like why would they colour change to begin with? Cause people don't know what their own colour is the present week half the time I'm guessing. But that was ur decision to make friendlies blue and an entire team also blue. It could still be revamped to make more sense is all I'm saying. You are kinda limiting yourself with alot of your choices to date. ex) G~15 inc NNC (people remember what spawn corner Green gets on their borderland automatically) vs YB ~15 inc nnc (people looking at map trying to see what corner/colour YB has their spawn at on the map all the time) I honestly still advocate for it to be guild based to begin with rather than server based. Like just put the guild name on the nameplate...leave out the server. Why? Cause we have RBG colouring on alll the teams to begin with! You can be the abbreviated servername at the end instead of the guild tag at the end So: Ehmry Bay Stock Exchange Platinum Raider [HoD] Half the time we need to report if its a guild group so that saves the trouble. Well rip DH. You were the best pairing EBAY got to date imo, even though it was way back then. Although very few seem to share that opinion, but whatever I liked you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HazyDaisy.4107 Posted October 22, 2017 Share Posted October 22, 2017 > @Arius.7031 said: (who, btw, both have some of the largest non host servers in SF and EBay). > I can't speak for Ebay, but in SFs case, I wouldn't say we're large. Despite our ladder ranking and despite what the current world select screen says, it just doesn't feel true. I can't really name 1 guild off the top of my head that had more than 10 actual active members and held nightly or even thrice weekly runs PRIOR to linkings, that is still on the server. Not that a group of 10 or more guild members doesn't get mixed up when dealing with a 3 server pair, and sure people go and maybe come back but I don't count them as core unless they stick. I wouldn't even describe people like myself as core since I've barely played the last couple of weeks. Anyway, as always, we'll see who's names we recognize this Friday and exactly what that high rating comes with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeknar.6184 Posted October 23, 2017 Author Share Posted October 23, 2017 > @HazyDaisy.4107 said: > > @Arius.7031 said: > >(who, btw, both have some of the largest non host servers in SF and EBay). > > I can't speak for Ebay, but in SFs case, I wouldn't say we're large. Despite our ladder ranking and despite what the current world select screen says, it just doesn't feel true. I can't really name 1 guild off the top of my head that had more than 10 actual active members and held nightly or even thrice weekly runs PRIOR to linkings, that is still on the server. > > Not that a group of 10 or more guild members doesn't get mixed up when dealing with a 3 server pair, and sure people go and maybe come back but I don't count them as core unless they stick. I wouldn't even describe people like myself as core since I've barely played the last couple of weeks. > > Anyway, as always, we'll see who's names we recognize this Friday and exactly what that high rating comes with. Sorrow's Furnace was listed as Very High (And Ehmry Bay too) until last monday. If it was a pug influx or some new guild that landed on it, we don't know, but SF was deemed to be within population size of a Very Large server. Now if you ask me what is a Very Large server population? That I cannot say... When we have Full servers on T4 and a Very High host who cannot even leave last place it's hard to tell which kind of metrics we're dealing with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HazyDaisy.4107 Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 > @Jeknar.6184 said: > > @HazyDaisy.4107 said: > > > @Arius.7031 said: > > >(who, btw, both have some of the largest non host servers in SF and EBay). > > > > I can't speak for Ebay, but in SFs case, I wouldn't say we're large. Despite our ladder ranking and despite what the current world select screen says, it just doesn't feel true. I can't really name 1 guild off the top of my head that had more than 10 actual active members and held nightly or even thrice weekly runs PRIOR to linkings, that is still on the server. > > > > Not that a group of 10 or more guild members doesn't get mixed up when dealing with a 3 server pair, and sure people go and maybe come back but I don't count them as core unless they stick. I wouldn't even describe people like myself as core since I've barely played the last couple of weeks. > > > > Anyway, as always, we'll see who's names we recognize this Friday and exactly what that high rating comes with. > > Sorrow's Furnace was listed as Very High (And Ehmry Bay too) until last monday. If it was a pug influx or some new guild that landed on it, we don't know, but SF was deemed to be within population size of a Very Large server. > > Now if you ask me what is a Very Large server population? That I cannot say... When we have Full servers on T4 and a Very High host who cannot even leave last place it's hard to tell which kind of metrics we're dealing with. A friend reminded me of a guild we gained a couple of months back and I'm sure there are others that just aren't visible in the clutter. The reality that the guests and even hosts don't know who's on their server is a problem in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeknar.6184 Posted October 23, 2017 Author Share Posted October 23, 2017 > @HazyDaisy.4107 said: > > @Jeknar.6184 said: > > > @HazyDaisy.4107 said: > > > > @Arius.7031 said: > > > >(who, btw, both have some of the largest non host servers in SF and EBay). > > > > > > I can't speak for Ebay, but in SFs case, I wouldn't say we're large. Despite our ladder ranking and despite what the current world select screen says, it just doesn't feel true. I can't really name 1 guild off the top of my head that had more than 10 actual active members and held nightly or even thrice weekly runs PRIOR to linkings, that is still on the server. > > > > > > Not that a group of 10 or more guild members doesn't get mixed up when dealing with a 3 server pair, and sure people go and maybe come back but I don't count them as core unless they stick. I wouldn't even describe people like myself as core since I've barely played the last couple of weeks. > > > > > > Anyway, as always, we'll see who's names we recognize this Friday and exactly what that high rating comes with. > > > > Sorrow's Furnace was listed as Very High (And Ehmry Bay too) until last monday. If it was a pug influx or some new guild that landed on it, we don't know, but SF was deemed to be within population size of a Very Large server. > > > > Now if you ask me what is a Very Large server population? That I cannot say... When we have Full servers on T4 and a Very High host who cannot even leave last place it's hard to tell which kind of metrics we're dealing with. > > A friend reminded me of a guild we gained a couple of months back and I'm sure there are others that just aren't visible in the clutter. > > The reality that the guests and even hosts don't know who's on their server is a problem in my opinion. We usually have an idea when new people arive because most Host Servers are full, but in the current state of SF (In a two-link with a open host) I can see the confusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyShroud.2865 Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 > @Arius.7031 said: > > @SkyShroud.2865 said: > > If DH is truly a host server size then SBI won't be in tier 4, why would two host servers qualified link be in T4? > > So we determine server size by ppt now? You realize we destroyed CD and TC, and we're currently competing with two double links (who, btw, both have some of the largest non host servers in SF and EBay). > > SBI's NA sucks at ppt. If you knew SBI, you'd know that. We nearly always have more numbers in NA than our opponents, and nearly always have a weak ppt to show for it. That's why we're placed lower. Note the amount of kills we get, and the kdr, and how we consistently beat non tier 2 servers in those regards. Only server in all of NA with more kills than us right now, is JQ. No. The reason is simple. Your link as a whole simply does not have sustainable coverage throughout the entire week which is further supported by the devs mentioning your server, DH, overall play hours is lesser. While CD might be closer in term of populations/play hours to DH, yet if the data numeric is higher by just "1" is enough to justify CD as host server. Your best bet to become host server is just to get more people or play even longer hours. Btw, I estimate it takes about a month time to reflect in the data. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeknar.6184 Posted October 24, 2017 Author Share Posted October 24, 2017 > @SkyShroud.2865 said: > > @Arius.7031 said: > > > @SkyShroud.2865 said: > > > If DH is truly a host server size then SBI won't be in tier 4, why would two host servers qualified link be in T4? > > > > So we determine server size by ppt now? You realize we destroyed CD and TC, and we're currently competing with two double links (who, btw, both have some of the largest non host servers in SF and EBay). > > > > SBI's NA sucks at ppt. If you knew SBI, you'd know that. We nearly always have more numbers in NA than our opponents, and nearly always have a weak ppt to show for it. That's why we're placed lower. Note the amount of kills we get, and the kdr, and how we consistently beat non tier 2 servers in those regards. Only server in all of NA with more kills than us right now, is JQ. > > No. The reason is simple. Your link as a whole simply does not have sustainable coverage throughout the entire week which is further supported by the devs mentioning your server, DH, overall play hours is lesser. > > While CD might be closer in term of populations/play hours to DH, yet if the data numeric is higher by just "1" is enough to justify CD as host server. Your best bet to become host server is just to get more people or play even longer hours. Btw, I estimate it takes about a month time to reflect in the data. > And how I am supposed to belive in the words of the same devs that put Full status on servers that barely compete with T4, let alone with a real full server like Blackgate? There are no numbers to support anything they say because they refuse to show us numbers and what we see in-game really don't reflect with what is said or shown to us in here. We'll basically be shooting in the dark by trying increase playtime/population, because we might be already above it but we'll never know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arius.7031 Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 > @SkyShroud.2865 said: > > @Arius.7031 said: > > > @SkyShroud.2865 said: > > > If DH is truly a host server size then SBI won't be in tier 4, why would two host servers qualified link be in T4? > > > > So we determine server size by ppt now? You realize we destroyed CD and TC, and we're currently competing with two double links (who, btw, both have some of the largest non host servers in SF and EBay). > > > > SBI's NA sucks at ppt. If you knew SBI, you'd know that. We nearly always have more numbers in NA than our opponents, and nearly always have a weak ppt to show for it. That's why we're placed lower. Note the amount of kills we get, and the kdr, and how we consistently beat non tier 2 servers in those regards. Only server in all of NA with more kills than us right now, is JQ. > > No. The reason is simple. Your link as a whole simply does not have sustainable coverage throughout the entire week which is further supported by the devs mentioning your server, DH, overall play hours is lesser. > > While CD might be closer in term of populations/play hours to DH, yet if the data numeric is higher by just "1" is enough to justify CD as host server. Your best bet to become host server is just to get more people or play even longer hours. Btw, I estimate it takes about a month time to reflect in the data. > Our link doesn't have sustainable coverage through the entire week, you say this while we're still winning on tuesday. You may be right, we may trail off on week, but that was sort of my point. Our coverage falters largely because our off hours can't pick up the slack of the really poor showing our NA numbers give. If SBI's NA were more competent in terms of ppt (which is not people's goals always and I respect that), there would be no competition between t3/4 and sbi/dh. Further, the idea that the best and only way to determine which servers has more pop is by mere hours is kind of silly. Servers WvW differently, many servers have insane amounts of hours spent just afk pip farming. The idea that all servers do this to the same degree is silly. It's a well known fact many servers are more casual/pve oriented than others, some more fights inclined and some more ppt inclined. Not all are equal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeknar.6184 Posted October 24, 2017 Author Share Posted October 24, 2017 > @Arius.7031 said: >many servers have insane amounts of hours spent just afk pip farming Guilty as charged The game been so boring lately that I find myself more time afk in the spawn only moving to refresh participation than actively playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyShroud.2865 Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 > @Jeknar.6184 said: > > @SkyShroud.2865 said: > > > @Arius.7031 said: > > > > @SkyShroud.2865 said: > > > > If DH is truly a host server size then SBI won't be in tier 4, why would two host servers qualified link be in T4? > > > > > > So we determine server size by ppt now? You realize we destroyed CD and TC, and we're currently competing with two double links (who, btw, both have some of the largest non host servers in SF and EBay). > > > > > > SBI's NA sucks at ppt. If you knew SBI, you'd know that. We nearly always have more numbers in NA than our opponents, and nearly always have a weak ppt to show for it. That's why we're placed lower. Note the amount of kills we get, and the kdr, and how we consistently beat non tier 2 servers in those regards. Only server in all of NA with more kills than us right now, is JQ. > > > > No. The reason is simple. Your link as a whole simply does not have sustainable coverage throughout the entire week which is further supported by the devs mentioning your server, DH, overall play hours is lesser. > > > > While CD might be closer in term of populations/play hours to DH, yet if the data numeric is higher by just "1" is enough to justify CD as host server. Your best bet to become host server is just to get more people or play even longer hours. Btw, I estimate it takes about a month time to reflect in the data. > > > > And how I am supposed to belive in the words of the same devs that put Full status on servers that barely compete with T4, let alone with a real full server like Blackgate? There are no numbers to support anything they say because they refuse to show us numbers and what we see in-game really don't reflect with what is said or shown to us in here. We'll basically be shooting in the dark by trying increase playtime/population, because we might be already above it but we'll never know. The threshold is simply a threshold. It isn't a indicator on comparable populations. I explained this in [thread](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/2469/wvw-structures-system-plus-populations-issues "WvW Structures & System Plus Populations Issues"). > @Arius.7031 said: > > @SkyShroud.2865 said: > > > @Arius.7031 said: > > > > @SkyShroud.2865 said: > > > > If DH is truly a host server size then SBI won't be in tier 4, why would two host servers qualified link be in T4? > > > > > > So we determine server size by ppt now? You realize we destroyed CD and TC, and we're currently competing with two double links (who, btw, both have some of the largest non host servers in SF and EBay). > > > > > > SBI's NA sucks at ppt. If you knew SBI, you'd know that. We nearly always have more numbers in NA than our opponents, and nearly always have a weak ppt to show for it. That's why we're placed lower. Note the amount of kills we get, and the kdr, and how we consistently beat non tier 2 servers in those regards. Only server in all of NA with more kills than us right now, is JQ. > > > > No. The reason is simple. Your link as a whole simply does not have sustainable coverage throughout the entire week which is further supported by the devs mentioning your server, DH, overall play hours is lesser. > > > > While CD might be closer in term of populations/play hours to DH, yet if the data numeric is higher by just "1" is enough to justify CD as host server. Your best bet to become host server is just to get more people or play even longer hours. Btw, I estimate it takes about a month time to reflect in the data. > > > > Our link doesn't have sustainable coverage through the entire week, you say this while we're still winning on tuesday. You may be right, we may trail off on week, but that was sort of my point. Our coverage falters largely because our off hours can't pick up the slack of the really poor showing our NA numbers give. If SBI's NA were more competent in terms of ppt (which is not people's goals always and I respect that), there would be no competition between t3/4 and sbi/dh. > > Further, the idea that the best and only way to determine which servers has more pop is by mere hours is kind of silly. Servers WvW differently, many servers have insane amounts of hours spent just afk pip farming. The idea that all servers do this to the same degree is silly. It's a well known fact many servers are more casual/pve oriented than others, some more fights inclined and some more ppt inclined. Not all are equal. Did you conveniently forget SBI lost last week? This spike in activity demonstrate the server's inconsistency and inconsistency should not be confused with sustainability. There is really no point in arguing with me about this. In the past, I once warned about flaw of the new population algorithm, not many cares, most just downplay it. I also talk about the different flaws and ways to fix it, people don't care. I also once said this, people will only care if it the issues surface right at their doorstep. Even a dev once told us that we don't have all the perspectives on the issue thus imply our suggestions will not work. Now, I'm no longer motivated to list the flaws and suggest ways to fix it, likewise the many others who once partake in the same motive. You can only play by the current rules, by the current designs, anet devs made it clear. Boost your populations, boost your play hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arius.7031 Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 > @SkyShroud.2865 said: > Did you conveniently forget SBI lost last week? This spike in activity demonstrate the server's inconsistency and inconsistency should not be confused with sustainability. > > There is really no point in arguing with me about this. In the past, I once warned about flaw of the new population algorithm, not many cares, most just downplay it. I also talk about the different flaws and ways to fix it, people don't care. I also once said this, people will only care if it the issues surface right at their doorstep. Even a dev once told us that we don't have all the perspectives on the issue thus imply our suggestions will not work. Now, I'm no longer motivated to list the flaws and suggest ways to fix it, likewise the many others who once partake in the same motive. > > You can only play by the current rules, by the current designs, anet devs made it clear. Boost your populations, boost your play hours. 1. I didn't say it's sustainable or would be sustained. It may or may not be. 2. Did you conveniently forget that an xpac just launched and a bunch of new/old players came back, that people are finally joining WvW again after finishing their pve, and this will affect servers differently? To run few a few things you may not have considered: Darkhaven has an edgey name that draws lots of new guys to it, Dh has always had a massive PvE pop (which was proven during WvW seasons), we transferred a good few people over to Darkhaven recently (Cough, hint, thread starter wasn't on dh a little bit ago), and so on... There are a lot of factors that *could* contribute to a stable increase in Dh's population, not some random fluctuation. 3. "The server" doesn't even make sense, we're two servers. Are you saying we're both the exact same inconsistent server? SBI? Dh? What are you even saying? Fluctuation happening during a turbulent time (you know, an expansion launching) is to be expected. 4. We lost last time... granted... the expansion just launched, everything is changing and in fluctuation at the moment. That doesn't mean we won't sustain a greater benefit from that fluctuation than you will, simply because it is fluctuating I don't disagree with you that we all have to play by the rules. I'm not saying Jeknar's petition is right or should be heeded, just that the fundamental idea is not as unsound as people are saying IMO. Maybe I'm completely wrong, who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyShroud.2865 Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 > @Arius.7031 said: > > @SkyShroud.2865 said: > > Did you conveniently forget SBI lost last week? This spike in activity demonstrate the server's inconsistency and inconsistency should not be confused with sustainability. > > > > There is really no point in arguing with me about this. In the past, I once warned about flaw of the new population algorithm, not many cares, most just downplay it. I also talk about the different flaws and ways to fix it, people don't care. I also once said this, people will only care if it the issues surface right at their doorstep. Even a dev once told us that we don't have all the perspectives on the issue thus imply our suggestions will not work. Now, I'm no longer motivated to list the flaws and suggest ways to fix it, likewise the many others who once partake in the same motive. > > > > You can only play by the current rules, by the current designs, anet devs made it clear. Boost your populations, boost your play hours. > > 1. I didn't say it's sustainable or would be sustained. It may or may not be. > > 2. Did you conveniently forget that an xpac just launched and a bunch of new/old players came back, that people are finally joining WvW again after finishing their pve, and this will affect servers differently? To run few a few things you may not have considered: Darkhaven has an edgey name that draws lots of new guys to it, Dh has always had a massive PvE pop (which was proven during WvW seasons), we transferred a good few people over to Darkhaven recently (Cough, hint, thread starter wasn't on dh a little bit ago), and so on... There are a lot of factors that *could* contribute to a stable increase in Dh's population, not some random fluctuation. > > 3. "The server" doesn't even make sense, we're two servers. Are you saying we're both the exact same inconsistent server? SBI? Dh? What are you even saying? Fluctuation happening during a turbulent time (you know, an expansion launching) is to be expected. > > 4. We lost last time... granted... the expansion just launched, everything is changing and in fluctuation at the moment. That doesn't mean we won't sustain a greater benefit from that fluctuation than you will, simply because it is fluctuating > > I don't disagree with you that we all have to play by the rules. I'm not saying Jeknar's petition is right or should be heeded, just that the fundamental idea is not as unsound as people are saying IMO. Maybe I'm completely wrong, who knows. 1. You are right, my bad. 2. And that is the same for every server, not only your server is undergoing xpac cause and effect. Also, OP was from DH, he or she is just moving around servers and now back to his or her old server. 3. You are trying hard to convince yourself of certain things, it reminded me of some self proclaim server leaders' mindset. Just to break your conviction a little, DH had once tried hard to regain host status by getting guilds from other servers, guilds went there but it didn't regain host status. At the same time, its off hours, particularly your timezone, sea, was capable of fielding a blob and when combined with DB's, it was 2 maps queued at peak. All of those are the past but not a distant past, it happened earlier this year. I have zero idea what you are trying to convince others at. **DH simply does not have a higher populations data value than CD**, nothing more, nothing less. If you want to argue about population algorithm, then, please refer to the below. _When Trade Union fight for the rights, I did nothing. When Labor Union fight for the rights, I did nothing. When Human Right fight for the rights, I did nothing. When I fight for the rights, no one left to fight with me._ In other words, people once questioned about the population algorithm, you did nothing. If you try to argue it now, it is just a bias opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arius.7031 Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 > @SkyShroud.2865 said: > > @Arius.7031 said: > > > @SkyShroud.2865 said: > > > Did you conveniently forget SBI lost last week? This spike in activity demonstrate the server's inconsistency and inconsistency should not be confused with sustainability. > > > > > > There is really no point in arguing with me about this. In the past, I once warned about flaw of the new population algorithm, not many cares, most just downplay it. I also talk about the different flaws and ways to fix it, people don't care. I also once said this, people will only care if it the issues surface right at their doorstep. Even a dev once told us that we don't have all the perspectives on the issue thus imply our suggestions will not work. Now, I'm no longer motivated to list the flaws and suggest ways to fix it, likewise the many others who once partake in the same motive. > > > > > > You can only play by the current rules, by the current designs, anet devs made it clear. Boost your populations, boost your play hours. > > > > 1. I didn't say it's sustainable or would be sustained. It may or may not be. > > > > 2. Did you conveniently forget that an xpac just launched and a bunch of new/old players came back, that people are finally joining WvW again after finishing their pve, and this will affect servers differently? To run few a few things you may not have considered: Darkhaven has an edgey name that draws lots of new guys to it, Dh has always had a massive PvE pop (which was proven during WvW seasons), we transferred a good few people over to Darkhaven recently (Cough, hint, thread starter wasn't on dh a little bit ago), and so on... There are a lot of factors that *could* contribute to a stable increase in Dh's population, not some random fluctuation. > > > > 3. "The server" doesn't even make sense, we're two servers. Are you saying we're both the exact same inconsistent server? SBI? Dh? What are you even saying? Fluctuation happening during a turbulent time (you know, an expansion launching) is to be expected. > > > > 4. We lost last time... granted... the expansion just launched, everything is changing and in fluctuation at the moment. That doesn't mean we won't sustain a greater benefit from that fluctuation than you will, simply because it is fluctuating > > > > I don't disagree with you that we all have to play by the rules. I'm not saying Jeknar's petition is right or should be heeded, just that the fundamental idea is not as unsound as people are saying IMO. Maybe I'm completely wrong, who knows. > > 1. You are right, my bad. > > 2. And that is the same for every server, not only your server is undergoing xpac cause and effect. Also, OP was from DH, he or she is just moving around servers and now back to his or her old server. > > 3. You are trying hard to convince yourself of certain things, it reminded me of some self proclaim server leaders' mindset. Just to break your conviction a little, DH had once tried hard to regain host status by getting guilds from other servers, guilds went there but it didn't regain host status. At the same time, its off hours, particularly your timezone, sea, was capable of fielding a blob and when combined with DB's, it was 2 maps queued at peak. All of those are the past but not a distant past, it happened earlier this year. > > I have zero idea what you are trying to convince others at. **DH simply does not have a higher populations data value than CD**, nothing more, nothing less. > > If you want to argue about population algorithm, then, please refer to the below. > > _When Trade Union fight for the rights, I did nothing. > When Labor Union fight for the rights, I did nothing. > When Human Right fight for the rights, I did nothing. > When I fight for the rights, no one left to fight with me._ > > In other words, people once questioned about the population algorithm, you did nothing. If you try to argue it now, it is just a bias opinion. 2. We're all undergoing the same turbulent time (pof launch) that doesn't mean it'll affect us all equally. I gave a few reasons as to why it might affect Dh differently than SOME other servers. Put it this way, you and I are in a car. Car crashes. I'm wearing a seat belt in a seat with an airbag, I'm banged up but alive. You're not, you fly through the window and hit a tree. We both got hit by the same outside force, but because of other factors it affected us differently. That's the point I'm making: Dh is a natural draw to new players because of it's name, with a massive amount of latent pveers who may be dipping their feet in WvW for the first time. I'm not saying this necessarily means we WILL gain more than a lot of other servers, just that we MIGHT. Also, Jeknar is from ET. I would know, as I'm one of the ones who first convinced him to move to Dh years ago now at this point. I'm a launch player, so is he. He was not on Dh for a very long time, I however have been since launch. 3. What specifically am I trying to convince myself of? I've agreed Dh's raw numbers are not, according to the algorithm, up to par with CD's. I've never fought that contention. That doesn't mean we don't have more real numbers due to loyalty/activity, whereas many cd at this point seem to just be afk farming pips. Have you fought CD much lately? They're dead compared to even TC which is dead compared to sbi/dh. TC is full like SBI (iirc, correct me if I'm wrong), yet when paired with FC they're not even close to Dh/SBI's population. As to your moral judgment that I should have fought more against server pairing, I had quit since a few months after HoT launch, I wasn't around at the time even. It's not even possible for me to have done what you're saying I must have for some reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HazyDaisy.4107 Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 I look around and see everywhere comments lIke "you'd never survive on your own" "you were dead a year ago" "we're a host, you're not HAHA". Then elsewhere new comments such as "wvw is boring, nothing but blobs everywhere" "POP IMBALANCE, OMG" "Our server is locked in T4, but theirs is bigger, no fair" We need a change people! Forget pop, forget your privaledged host lifestyle, forget giving a low host some easy ppt so they don't fall out of their position, don't deny. It's favoritism and it sucks! Worse than that, you guys only do it because you're comfortable with how things are, you're scared of change. Wvw is mundane in its current state, regardless of whether we swap partners every 2 months, it's still the same story 2 weeks in, green and blue Ktrain red, or blue and red ktrain green, but not each other, simply because they can! There is no variety and still no one can beat or sustain #1 without a link. Meanwhile you have 12 other NA servers that just want to fly their own darn flag and fight their own darn fight (with alittle help of course), but can't because no one wants to transfer to a guest server and work hard enough to meet some unknown clouded activity line to get that server there. Forget the activity line, just give us a change every 6 months or so in the line up. Will a new host get ktrained to the bone? Of course they will, but atleast it'll be different than being ktrained as a guest and really not caring about it half the time BECAUSE you're a guest! We have, according to stats, some guests with growing pops, but no fulls, and we have, according to stats, other guests with ALOT of room to grow. Since people are more likely to transfer to a named server, and half the current named servers are full, why not mess with people's brains and make some lovely gems sales at the same time? It's win win for everyone, it reduces bandwagon because no one knows where to bandwagon to, it gives guests a chance to advertise and help rebuild, or atleast hope that they could move into host one day, and it breaks up the current comfort zone, thus putting guests on a more even footing with hosts and their opinions about HOW the mode should be played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyShroud.2865 Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 > @Arius.7031 said: > > @SkyShroud.2865 said: > > > @Arius.7031 said: > > > > @SkyShroud.2865 said: > > > > Did you conveniently forget SBI lost last week? This spike in activity demonstrate the server's inconsistency and inconsistency should not be confused with sustainability. > > > > > > > > There is really no point in arguing with me about this. In the past, I once warned about flaw of the new population algorithm, not many cares, most just downplay it. I also talk about the different flaws and ways to fix it, people don't care. I also once said this, people will only care if it the issues surface right at their doorstep. Even a dev once told us that we don't have all the perspectives on the issue thus imply our suggestions will not work. Now, I'm no longer motivated to list the flaws and suggest ways to fix it, likewise the many others who once partake in the same motive. > > > > > > > > You can only play by the current rules, by the current designs, anet devs made it clear. Boost your populations, boost your play hours. > > > > > > 1. I didn't say it's sustainable or would be sustained. It may or may not be. > > > > > > 2. Did you conveniently forget that an xpac just launched and a bunch of new/old players came back, that people are finally joining WvW again after finishing their pve, and this will affect servers differently? To run few a few things you may not have considered: Darkhaven has an edgey name that draws lots of new guys to it, Dh has always had a massive PvE pop (which was proven during WvW seasons), we transferred a good few people over to Darkhaven recently (Cough, hint, thread starter wasn't on dh a little bit ago), and so on... There are a lot of factors that *could* contribute to a stable increase in Dh's population, not some random fluctuation. > > > > > > 3. "The server" doesn't even make sense, we're two servers. Are you saying we're both the exact same inconsistent server? SBI? Dh? What are you even saying? Fluctuation happening during a turbulent time (you know, an expansion launching) is to be expected. > > > > > > 4. We lost last time... granted... the expansion just launched, everything is changing and in fluctuation at the moment. That doesn't mean we won't sustain a greater benefit from that fluctuation than you will, simply because it is fluctuating > > > > > > I don't disagree with you that we all have to play by the rules. I'm not saying Jeknar's petition is right or should be heeded, just that the fundamental idea is not as unsound as people are saying IMO. Maybe I'm completely wrong, who knows. > > > > 1. You are right, my bad. > > > > 2. And that is the same for every server, not only your server is undergoing xpac cause and effect. Also, OP was from DH, he or she is just moving around servers and now back to his or her old server. > > > > 3. You are trying hard to convince yourself of certain things, it reminded me of some self proclaim server leaders' mindset. Just to break your conviction a little, DH had once tried hard to regain host status by getting guilds from other servers, guilds went there but it didn't regain host status. At the same time, its off hours, particularly your timezone, sea, was capable of fielding a blob and when combined with DB's, it was 2 maps queued at peak. All of those are the past but not a distant past, it happened earlier this year. > > > > I have zero idea what you are trying to convince others at. **DH simply does not have a higher populations data value than CD**, nothing more, nothing less. > > > > If you want to argue about population algorithm, then, please refer to the below. > > > > _When Trade Union fight for the rights, I did nothing. > > When Labor Union fight for the rights, I did nothing. > > When Human Right fight for the rights, I did nothing. > > When I fight for the rights, no one left to fight with me._ > > > > In other words, people once questioned about the population algorithm, you did nothing. If you try to argue it now, it is just a bias opinion. > > 2. We're all undergoing the same turbulent time (pof launch) that doesn't mean it'll affect us all equally. I gave a few reasons as to why it might affect Dh differently than SOME other servers. Put it this way, you and I are in a car. Car crashes. I'm wearing a seat belt in a seat with an airbag, I'm banged up but alive. You're not, you fly through the window and hit a tree. We both got hit by the same outside force, but because of other factors it affected us differently. That's the point I'm making: Dh is a natural draw to new players because of it's name, with a massive amount of latent pveers who may be dipping their feet in WvW for the first time. I'm not saying this necessarily means we WILL gain more than a lot of other servers, just that we MIGHT. > > Also, Jeknar is from ET. I would know, as I'm one of the ones who first convinced him to move to Dh years ago now at this point. I'm a launch player, so is he. He was not on Dh for a very long time, I however have been since launch. > > 3. What specifically am I trying to convince myself of? I've agreed Dh's raw numbers are not, according to the algorithm, up to par with CD's. I've never fought that contention. That doesn't mean we don't have more real numbers due to loyalty/activity, whereas many cd at this point seem to just be afk farming pips. Have you fought CD much lately? They're dead compared to even TC which is dead compared to sbi/dh. TC is full like SBI (iirc, correct me if I'm wrong), yet when paired with FC they're not even close to Dh/SBI's population. > > As to your moral judgment that I should have fought more against server pairing, I had quit since a few months after HoT launch, I wasn't around at the time even. It's not even possible for me to have done what you're saying I must have for some reason. Again, I don't see the points. So what if you think DH is different? **DH simply does not have a higher populations data value than CD.** This is not moral judgement, this is rationalizing, you are in denial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arius.7031 Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 > @SkyShroud.2865 said: > Again, I don't see the points. So what if you think DH is different? **DH simply does not have a higher populations data value than CD.** > > This is not moral judgement, this is rationalizing, you are in denial. Perhaps, to see my points, you should read what I'm saying not what you feel like I'm suggesting? I've said repeatedly we have lower population according to Anet's metric, and the metric seems flawed, and the OP may be completely wrong about Dh being made host. All I'm saying is, if you set aside that faulty metric, there is a point to giving a new server host... and that makes sense to be Dh. That doesn't mean it should be done, because we don't have access to much data to prove one way or another CD Vs. Dh's true sizes... except that they have more overall hours/manpower, which means almost nothing. I get it, you go by the anet metric... the metric discussion was done the moment the dev said that metric favored CD. Not talking about that anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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