Idea ofr Next spec: Battle Angel

[anduriell.6280]

Engi for next spec gains the ability to call golem suits as utility/heal/elite skills to be equipped by the engi or allies. Think about something based in wvw golem suits.

Those golem suits have their own HP/ toughness stats so the suit is balanced between durability / mobility / utility / damage. Suits aren't immune to damage / CC even when unoccupied as such can be pushed / knockdown to avoid an engi to suit up right away.

 

Those suits bring a a different set of tools depending on which is used:

 

* Medic golem suit : heal skill, High HP / Mid mobility / Heals / cleanses / resistance. Auto is light damage.

* Combat golem suit: high HP / Low mobility / leaps and stun / melee attacks. Access to daze/stun/.

* Ranged golem suit: low HP / Mid mobility / ranged attacks / AoE ranged Attacks. Access to cripple/slow/freeze .

* Plague golem suit : Mid HP / Mid mobility / melee and ranged condition attacks. No access to cripple/slow/freeze/daze or stun.

* Explorer golem suit: Mid HP / High mobility / teleports / group stealth / defensive skills. Auto is melee mid damage skill. Has access to some ranged damage skill.

* Elite Siege golem suit: Elite skill, high HP / Low Mobility / siege damage / ranged attacks / Melee CC / Based in the WvW alpha golem.

 

Mid mobility : normal speed / low mobility -50% speed / high mobility +33% speed

 

Golems have a very long CD, 120s - 300s. If the suit is destroyed the golem goes in full CD. If the suit is sent back ( by un-equipping the golem and activating the skill again while very close to it) the CD is reduced a 75%. Only one kind of primary suit can be active at any time. HP for the primary suits are not restored between uses. The only way to repair a damaged suit is to use F5 or to wait until is destroyed to receive a new one.

 

The engi spec loses access to the tool belt. Instead it gain the ability to call any a second suit. F1-F4 determine the type of second suit (medic/combat/ranged/plague) . This second suits can be used by allies. Second activation for the AI to take over the suit (so it can't be wear anymore) . This second suits last for 30s after that are destroyed then it goes into CD 60s. Only one type of second suit golem can be active at any time.

 

F5 is calls forward an small support drone (or gyro) which floats around the engie. This drone does not attack but slowly repair the suits, the drone has some defensive skills in case of being attacked but can't repair itself.. F5 has a CD of 90s if the drone is destroyed, 22s if it's sent back (activating the skill for second time) . The drone is fully repaired each time is called. This is the only way primary suits can be repaired.

 

Traits could be focused in:

* Improve HP and toughness for the golems.

* Reduce CDs for the suits.

* Increase the repair rate and utility of the support drone (or gyro)

* Extend the duration of the Fx suits.

* Empower the roles of the golems ( Medic can get a pulsing healing, Ranged can get extra range from 900 to 1500, Combat can get pulsing stability, etc...)

* Improve mobility speed for the golems (for example, making walking faster )

* etc...

 

No additional weapon.

 

This could bring engi as desirable in squads as Golems can bring a extra layer of utility. It could be combined with normal utility skills and weapons while using the suits from the F1-F4 skills for some short term suit duration. Depending on the golem design it could be a lot of fun to run PvE with those, and obviously those are a great advantage in WvW and PvP as it can offer up to 5 additional health bars to the engi while bringing a lot of utility.

 

It is balanced by the fact the suits are not repaired between uses and the long CDs.

 

What do you think? Too weird?

 

 

[Daxia.1425]

Weird is good and it can not be too weird seeing the skills they hand out left and right.

[Kodama.6453]

While it is nice you put so much effort into this concept, I have to say that I vote no on this one. There are several reasons for that.

 

* no additional weapon: absolute no go for me, considering that engineer has the smallest weapon arsenal of all classes and we could really use another condition weapon

* Asuran themed: scrapper has been charr themed and while holosmith uses Zephyrite crystals, it is still heavily Asuran flavoured, there is also the fact that holomancy is primarily Asuran technology. I would prefer to avoid giving us another Asuran flavoured elite spec and go for another thematic. Since we already have the mechanical theme and the Asuran scifi theme, I would prefer a spec that has heavy emphasis on chemicals

* complete removal of toolbelt: engineer is relying heavily on it's toolbelt and I don't see the suits making up for that

* design too much over the place: our next elite spec should focus on conditions and support, your design focuses on too many different things since every suit has another focus

* basically transformation mechanic: seems like your idea is for golem suits to replace your weapon skills, if I am not mistaken. Holosmith already did that with photonforge and also core engineer already does that with kits. I don't think we need more skills which are overwriting our weapon skills.

* restricted utility skills: as far as I am aware, no other utility skill for elite specs is restricted in such a way that you can just use one of these skills at the same time, doesn't sound so great for build diversity.

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"Kodama.6453" said:

> * Asuran themed: scrapper has been charr themed and while holosmith uses Zephyrite crystals, it is still heavily Asuran flavoured, there is also the fact that holomancy is primarily Asuran technology. I would prefer to avoid giving us another Asuran flavoured elite spec and go for another thematic. Since we already have the mechanical theme and the Asuran scifi theme, I would prefer a spec that has heavy emphasis on chemicals

 

The zephyrites looked very human in my eyes though and when it come to an engineer that make use of light, scarlet Briar is the first character I think about... Which leave only norn and I don't think that there much thematically that rely a norn to engineery.

 

You want something tied to chamicals but honestly, don't scrapper and it's gyro already grant handle a bit of chemical stuff?

 

I see what you mean but I don't think you should focus on the "chemical" aspect of the e-spec you're looking for. You should probably focus on the mean to use this aspect instead. Chemicals are already there in vials (elixirs), kits, turrets and even gadgets, where do you want them next? Are you expecting an Aromatherapist or a Junky?

 

Personally, while I'd love to see signets being emulated through implants, I think "Sound" is an area of engineery that would be a bit more original for an engineer e-spec than another iteration of "chemistry".

[Kodama.6453]

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > @"Kodama.6453" said:

> > * Asuran themed: scrapper has been charr themed and while holosmith uses Zephyrite crystals, it is still heavily Asuran flavoured, there is also the fact that holomancy is primarily Asuran technology. I would prefer to avoid giving us another Asuran flavoured elite spec and go for another thematic. Since we already have the mechanical theme and the Asuran scifi theme, I would prefer a spec that has heavy emphasis on chemicals

>

> The zephyrites looked very human in my eyes though and when it come to an engineer that make use of light, scarlet Briar is the first character I think about... Which leave only norn and I don't think that there much thematically that rely a norn to engineery.

>

> You want something tied to chamicals but honestly, don't scrapper and it's gyro already grant handle a bit of chemical stuff?

>

> I see what you mean but I don't think you should focus on the "chemical" aspect of the e-spec you're looking for. You should probably focus on the mean to use this aspect instead. Chemicals are already there in vials (elixirs), kits, turrets and even gadgets, where do you want them next? Are you expecting an Aromatherapist or a Junky?

>

> Personally, while I'd love to see signets being emulated through implants, I think "Sound" is an area of engineery that would be a bit more original for an engineer e-spec than another iteration of "chemistry".

 

But do you know who Scarlet Briar got holomancy taught from?

Tip: she visited some grey cave living science goblins.

Holomancy is primarily an Asuran technology, that Scarlet learnd from them doesn't change this.

 

What I expect from the new elite spec: something like a plaguedoctor elite spec. Give us back the chemical madman thematic we used to have in the past!

Many traits referencing this got deleted, like acidic elixirs, acid coating, deadly mixture....

 

It works perfectly with the condition and support playstyle that engineer needs from the next elite spec. It fills the idea of "using elite specs as a dual classing replacement" that Anet wants to use. Like how they see spellbreaker as a mixture of warrior/mesmer or mirage is a combination of mesmer/thief.

A plaguedoctor could represent the engineer/necromancer dual classing.

 

We could use corruption skills, which are giving powerful condition damage and/or support effects while the plaguedoctor sacrifices either health as their cost or inflict themselves with conditions.

Especially dealing some damage to themselves would also work well with the support playstyle: our trait medical dispersion field has several interactions which will share additional healing if the engineer is not damaged. Skills which damage yourself could help you deal slight damage to yourself to heal back up and share that healing with allies.

 

I think the plaguedoctor elite spec could also be about Sylvari technology! We don't have Sylvari themed technology yet (like I said, Scarlet got taught from **Asuras**) and acid and other chemicals could be appropriate for plant people. They could even extract some acids from their own bodies, dammit.

And looking at the cast of people in the lore: Canach would make a perfect plaguedoctor represntative! I can definitely imagine him running around and using acids or inject stuff into his own veines/vines?

 

And I don't see how you come up with the idea that scrapper already handles a chemistry theme.... just because there is one single skill called chemical field?

That is a bit of a stretch, isn't it?

Scrapper's primary themes are mechanical devices (gyros) and electricity. I imagine an elite spec that throws around acids, injects dangerous substances in the veins of their allies to strengthen them, or releases a cloud of fumes growing over time to buff all allies in the area by enraging them to attack faster.

 

Sound could be an interesting thematic for an elite spec. But how exactly would you imagine a sound based spec to turn out?

Personally, the first things coming to my mind for "sound" as an engineer theme would be damaging shockwaves (which most likely would turn out as power damage, which we don't need) and CC through stuff like dazes (CC already is a major selling point of the scrapper).

Which niches do you think a sound spec could fill that we are needing?

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"Kodama.6453" said:

> Sound could be an interesting thematic for an elite spec. But how exactly would you imagine a sound based spec to turn out?

> Personally, the first things coming to my mind for "sound" as an engineer theme would be damaging shockwaves (which most likely would turn out as power damage, which we don't need) and CC through stuff like dazes (CC already is a major selling point of the scrapper).

> Which niches do you think a sound spec could fill that we are needing?

 

Well, technically "sound" in the game carry a lot of support effects (Shouts/commands). Sound can also induce confusion (which isn't out of the engineer domain). You could also imagine sound carrying weaken, vulnerability or blindness. You could even have sounds as an unique way to disrupt pets' action (I'm thinking of the effect of ultrasound on beast here, but applied to a wider range of familiar)... etc.

[Kodama.6453]

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

>

> Well, technically "sound" in the game carry a lot of support effects (Shouts/commands). Sound can also induce confusion (which isn't out of the engineer domain). You could also imagine sound carrying weaken, vulnerability or blindness. You could even have sounds as an unique way to disrupt pets' action (I'm thinking of the effect of ultrasound on beast here, but applied to a wider range of familiar)... etc.

 

Agreed on confusion, that it can work with.

About support effects... I don't see the engineer using "sound" in a way that is similar to shouts or commands. **If** the engineer uses sound, they will most likely use it to produce shockwaves, not to command allies on the battlefield, at least in my opinion.

 

And confusion is pretty much the only damage dealing condition I can see working with sound.

Torment, burning, poison... these all don't mesh well with sound, don't you think?

 

Using sound to disrupt pet action... sounds just like target restricted CC if you are honest.

[draxynnic.3719]

When talking about 'sound-based support engineer', I suddenly find myself imagining an engineer with a massive boombox keeping up the morale of their allies (and maybe encouraging them to dance-fight?) through bombastic battle music.

 

I'm not sure this is actually a good idea, but that's the mental image that immediately popped to mind.

 

And then I thought of Dredge Disaggregators.

[Kodama.6453]

> @"draxynnic.3719" said:

> When talking about 'sound-based support engineer', I suddenly find myself imagining an engineer with a massive boombox keeping up the morale of their allies (and maybe encouraging them to dance-fight?) through bombastic battle music.

>

> I'm not sure this is actually a good idea, but that's the mental image that immediately popped to mind.

>

> And then I thought of Dredge Disaggregators.

 

Yes to dredge, no to boombox pls....

I don't want the next e-spec for engineer to be a walking joke.

[juno.1840]

Problem with a concept that replaces your skills, it has to be worth taking. Since so many elite specs are broken, this is a tough problem. Why hop in a healing golem suit when FB/Tempest does it better? Why hop in a DPS golem suit with necro/rev does it better? Why hop in a boon golem suit when xxx does it better?

 

If the golem suits are actually better than the meta classes, even for a short period of time, they become OP (best case) , or they push other classes out of the meta (worst case). That's an extreme scenario that isn't likely imo. What is likely is that the golem suits are so ineffective that nobody uses them, and this engi elite is not welcome in any meta.

 

Also consider that using skills well takes practice and many non-engineers will have no clue what to do when hopping in a golem suit. Same scenario with conjured weapons, siege golems, the old warrior banners, etc.. Even the Asura elite skill with massive c/d... nobody uses it, and I doubt anyone can recall a single skill from the skill bar (ref: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Summon_Power_Suit ).

[draxynnic.3719]

> @"juno.1840" said:

> Also consider that using skills well takes practice and many non-engineers will have no clue what to do when hopping in a golem suit. Same scenario with conjured weapons, siege golems, the old warrior banners, etc.. Even the Asura elite skill with massive c/d... nobody uses it, and I doubt anyone can recall a single skill from the skill bar (ref: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Summon_Power_Suit ).

 

Yeah, this is a problem across the entire game, and I kinda wish there was somewhere you could go to familiarise yourself with those skills. For instance, I'm pretty sure that Signet of Humility wouldn't have needed to have been nerfed so much in competitive modes if there was an arena somewhere where you could fight as a moa and properly learn the skills (it'd probably be a lot less effective if more of the player base knew how to use the skills).

[Ghos.1326]

> @"Kodama.6453" said:

 

> Sound could be an interesting thematic for an elite spec. But how exactly would you imagine a sound based spec to turn out?

> Personally, the first things coming to my mind for "sound" as an engineer theme would be damaging shockwaves (which most likely would turn out as power damage, which we don't need) and CC through stuff like dazes (CC already is a major selling point of the scrapper).

> Which niches do you think a sound spec could fill that we are needing?

 

 

For sound, something soothing could occur. Almost like a phonic therapy of sorts.

But I agree with you mostly here, I want this next spec to be mostly support based. My ideas, since we know we're going to Cantha, were on a more "Medicine Man" theme, since medicine is considered a technology and medicine is very much associated with support.

[Vagrant.7206]

> @"draxynnic.3719" said:

> > @"juno.1840" said:

> > Also consider that using skills well takes practice and many non-engineers will have no clue what to do when hopping in a golem suit. Same scenario with conjured weapons, siege golems, the old warrior banners, etc.. Even the Asura elite skill with massive c/d... nobody uses it, and I doubt anyone can recall a single skill from the skill bar (ref: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Summon_Power_Suit ).

>

> Yeah, this is a problem across the entire game, and I kinda wish there was somewhere you could go to familiarise yourself with those skills. For instance, I'm pretty sure that Signet of Humility wouldn't have needed to have been nerfed so much in competitive modes if there was an arena somewhere where you could fight as a moa and properly learn the skills (it'd probably be a lot less effective if more of the player base knew how to use the skills).

 

It took me a long time to figure out that 5 skill was my best friend as a moa.

[draxynnic.3719]

> @"Vagrant.7206" said:

> > @"draxynnic.3719" said:

> > > @"juno.1840" said:

> > > Also consider that using skills well takes practice and many non-engineers will have no clue what to do when hopping in a golem suit. Same scenario with conjured weapons, siege golems, the old warrior banners, etc.. Even the Asura elite skill with massive c/d... nobody uses it, and I doubt anyone can recall a single skill from the skill bar (ref: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Summon_Power_Suit ).

> >

> > Yeah, this is a problem across the entire game, and I kinda wish there was somewhere you could go to familiarise yourself with those skills. For instance, I'm pretty sure that Signet of Humility wouldn't have needed to have been nerfed so much in competitive modes if there was an arena somewhere where you could fight as a moa and properly learn the skills (it'd probably be a lot less effective if more of the player base knew how to use the skills).

>

> It took me a long time to figure out that 5 skill was my best friend as a moa.

 

Often the way, although I have seen times when the right move was to just yolo and keep fighting as a moa.

[Vagrant.7206]

> @"draxynnic.3719" said:

> > @"Vagrant.7206" said:

> > > @"draxynnic.3719" said:

> > > > @"juno.1840" said:

> > > > Also consider that using skills well takes practice and many non-engineers will have no clue what to do when hopping in a golem suit. Same scenario with conjured weapons, siege golems, the old warrior banners, etc.. Even the Asura elite skill with massive c/d... nobody uses it, and I doubt anyone can recall a single skill from the skill bar (ref: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Summon_Power_Suit ).

> > >

> > > Yeah, this is a problem across the entire game, and I kinda wish there was somewhere you could go to familiarise yourself with those skills. For instance, I'm pretty sure that Signet of Humility wouldn't have needed to have been nerfed so much in competitive modes if there was an arena somewhere where you could fight as a moa and properly learn the skills (it'd probably be a lot less effective if more of the player base knew how to use the skills).

> >

> > It took me a long time to figure out that 5 skill was my best friend as a moa.

>

> Often the way, although I have seen times when the right move was to just yolo and keep fighting as a moa.

 

Oh absolutely. I've downed a number of people by spamming that 1 key after getting moa'd. I always give a "bawk bawk" as a cheer.