Scourge might have a shot at raids

[Kam.4092]

> @Dadnir.5038 said:

> > @Kinch.6490 said:

> > The thing is that there are plenty of ways to buff their performance in Raids while not requiring ANY nerfs to the profession. Adding conditions to MH Dagger auto is one of them. Revamping Staff auto is another alternative (Staff auto generally isn't used in WvW, and Staff generally isn't used anywhere else... except maybe PvP... but, again, not auto).

>

> Your "solutions" are wrong.

>

> Adding conditions on dagger auto only boost scourge condi damages and revamping staff wouldn't change anything. Come on you even dare to say that staff ain't used in WvW. Staff is used in a lot of area be it WvW, PvP or PvE, it's just that it's skills design feel a bit bland and the damages will never be optimal due to it's nature as a utility weapon.

>

> You want to open up the door of the PvE high end group content? Honestly, that's pretty easy and have nothing to do with weapon. You just need to adapt a few traits to PvE.

> *Spite*:

> - _Unholy fervor_: reduce axe cool down by 20%. When a foe have more than 15 vuln stacks, deal 10% more damage to this foe. (bonus damage apply to all skills instead of just axe skills. PvE wise you are supposed to always benefit from the damage boost, PvP wise it's balanced.)

> - _Rending shroud_: reduce your foe toughness when you are in shroud. (That's the most needed unique party dps boost that the necromancer badly need to have a place in high end PvE group content. A debuff that go beyond vulnerability)

>

> The reason why you ask for dagger and staff change is because you fear to starve LF. Logically if anet were to answer you they would say: "you got spectral skills for that". I agree that it wouldn't be a satisfying answer but I believe that it is a balanced answer.

 

Do you think Spectral Mastery would ever be better than Vital Persistence? It would have Spectral Armor on a 32 second cooldown with 5% Life Force on use, and increases the duration to 9.6 seconds. That's an extremely high amount of Life Force if you're taking nonstop damage in a Raid, Dungeon, or Fractal.

[Dadnir.5038]

> @Kam.4092 said:

> > @Dadnir.5038 said:

> > > @Kinch.6490 said:

> > > The thing is that there are plenty of ways to buff their performance in Raids while not requiring ANY nerfs to the profession. Adding conditions to MH Dagger auto is one of them. Revamping Staff auto is another alternative (Staff auto generally isn't used in WvW, and Staff generally isn't used anywhere else... except maybe PvP... but, again, not auto).

> >

> > Your "solutions" are wrong.

> >

> > Adding conditions on dagger auto only boost scourge condi damages and revamping staff wouldn't change anything. Come on you even dare to say that staff ain't used in WvW. Staff is used in a lot of area be it WvW, PvP or PvE, it's just that it's skills design feel a bit bland and the damages will never be optimal due to it's nature as a utility weapon.

> >

> > You want to open up the door of the PvE high end group content? Honestly, that's pretty easy and have nothing to do with weapon. You just need to adapt a few traits to PvE.

> > *Spite*:

> > - _Unholy fervor_: reduce axe cool down by 20%. When a foe have more than 15 vuln stacks, deal 10% more damage to this foe. (bonus damage apply to all skills instead of just axe skills. PvE wise you are supposed to always benefit from the damage boost, PvP wise it's balanced.)

> > - _Rending shroud_: reduce your foe toughness when you are in shroud. (That's the most needed unique party dps boost that the necromancer badly need to have a place in high end PvE group content. A debuff that go beyond vulnerability)

> >

> > The reason why you ask for dagger and staff change is because you fear to starve LF. Logically if anet were to answer you they would say: "you got spectral skills for that". I agree that it wouldn't be a satisfying answer but I believe that it is a balanced answer.

>

> Do you think Spectral Mastery would ever be better than Vital Persistence? It would have Spectral Armor on a 32 second cooldown with 5% Life Force on use, and increases the duration to 9.6 seconds. That's an extremely high amount of Life Force if you're taking nonstop damage in a Raid, Dungeon, or Fractal.

 

Thanksfully there is more to _spectral mastery_ than just _Spectral armor_. And yes, I do think it can compete with _Vital persistence_. _Vital persistence_ offer a passive increase in LF pool, _Spectral mastery_ offer some sustain to the LF pool. When people are asking for condition on dagger auto, they mainly express their fear to not have enough LF sustain on condi builds.

 

The obvious answer should be to look at our sustain tools not ask for changes. Balance is made in such a way that we need to chose what we want not take everything and faceroll the game. It's a choice, some sustain or a larger pool. The ability to use more often your scourge skills or the ability to have on demand LF when the need arise. Will it be good for high end PvE? Probably not.

 

Is the choice meaningfull? Yes. Why? Because that's what will balance scourge's condi builds and scourge's power builds in PvE.

 

 

[Wintermute.5408]

I love how "balance" stands for "uncompetetive" now. God forbid necros actually compete with eles for damage numbers. Better keep it to the ground.

[Lahmia.2193]

Power scourge? Is that like Condi Scrapper?

[Hornet.6357]

If necro becomes viable, it will be one or two balance patches before it's nerfed into the ground.

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

Spectrals will never be useful in PvE unless they drastically increase the attack rate of enemies. A 32 second cool down that is 21% life force and nothing else is not worth the slot. And that's the **best** Spectral.

[Crinn.7864]

Honestly raid scourge will probably end up taking Signet of Undeath for LF gain. Might also take Shadow Fiend and spam Shadow Fiend's active on cd.

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

Shadow Fiend is much more likely than Signet of Undeath. 30% life force per minute instead of 40%, but is a DPS contribution itself.

[Zenith.7301]

A marginal one still. It's pathetic how a shadowfiend autoattacks for 450 damage and the haunt skill doesn't even get close to a 3k hit.

 

How can they let minions rot in obsolescence in PvE for so long? They're about the most iconic skills necromancers have! All it takes is a PvE split balance update to them.

 

Spectral skills are also weak just like wells because of the hideously long cooldowns.

 

Our wells do less damage than a dragonhunter trap yet have much longer cd's. It's ridiculous how infrequently the class gets revised and updated.

[Crinn.7864]

> @"Drarnor Kunoram.5180" said:

> Shadow Fiend is much more likely than Signet of Undeath. 30% life force per minute instead of 40%, but is a DPS contribution itself.

 

Or both on fights where epidemic isn't useful. Pretty sure the LF contribution will be more effective dps than any other possible utility.

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

> @Crinn.7864 said:

> > @"Drarnor Kunoram.5180" said:

> > Shadow Fiend is much more likely than Signet of Undeath. 30% life force per minute instead of 40%, but is a DPS contribution itself.

>

> Or both on fights where epidemic isn't useful. Pretty sure the LF contribution will be more effective dps than any other possible utility.

 

Depends on if you want the utility of Sand Swell or not. It's not hard to see possible encounters for that to be useful. Jade Construct, for example.