Starmiz.3298 Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 Great to see a mesmer dps build that actually looks fun to play. Maybe I should give Mirage a try after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kobeathris.3645 Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said: > > I do wonder why everyone uses the chaos line for the clone build instead of illusions. Assuming you are aiming for 100% duration for all conditions, Illusions just doesn't add much. The shatter traits you won't use if you have Clones out for damage, It gives a max 150 condition damage assuming you have 3 clones out, while chaos gives at least 100 condition damage all the time, the extra confusion duration is wasted, the phantasm traits won't be used, so you are left with reduced cooldown on illusion summoning. Balance that against extra chaos storms without going to staff, frequent regen and protection, and typically at least 9% boon and condi duration, with more likely in group content. The Grandmaster is free to use for whatever you need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Red Arachnid.2493 Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 > @Kobeathris.3645 said: > > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said: > > > > I do wonder why everyone uses the chaos line for the clone build instead of illusions. > > Assuming you are aiming for 100% duration for all conditions, Illusions just doesn't add much. The shatter traits you won't use if you have Clones out for damage, It gives a max 150 condition damage assuming you have 3 clones out, while chaos gives at least 100 condition damage all the time, the extra confusion duration is wasted, the phantasm traits won't be used, so you are left with reduced cooldown on illusion summoning. Balance that against extra chaos storms without going to staff, frequent regen and protection, and typically at least 9% boon and condi duration, with more likely in group content. The Grandmaster is free to use for whatever you need. With Dune Cloak, I'm sitting at 92% condition duration before food. With food and crystal, I'm capped. The Chaos line doesn't offer me much regarding duration. The illusion line has the chaos line beat for flat damage buffs in both direct damage and condition damage. Neither line has a grandmaster that is great for the clone build, but overall I find Phantasmal Force and Malicious Sorcery to be more useful than boons on interrupt and boons on shatter. From a damage perspective, it's a competition of two traits: Maim the Disillusioned + Illusionary Retribution vs. Descent into Madness. Descent is decent, but for general use I have a hard time picking anything other than buffed up shatters. Anything less than a veteran dies before I can get a full clone rotation through, so it is better to just blast 24 confusion ticks _ 48 torment ticks in an AoE. If I'm against an elite or or higher, I can just hold my shatter for a bit to let my clones get a full rotation in, shatter them and instantly spawn all 3 clones back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coulter.2315 Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said: > > @Kobeathris.3645 said: > > > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said: > > > > > > I do wonder why everyone uses the chaos line for the clone build instead of illusions. > > > > Assuming you are aiming for 100% duration for all conditions, Illusions just doesn't add much. The shatter traits you won't use if you have Clones out for damage, It gives a max 150 condition damage assuming you have 3 clones out, while chaos gives at least 100 condition damage all the time, the extra confusion duration is wasted, the phantasm traits won't be used, so you are left with reduced cooldown on illusion summoning. Balance that against extra chaos storms without going to staff, frequent regen and protection, and typically at least 9% boon and condi duration, with more likely in group content. The Grandmaster is free to use for whatever you need. > > With Dune Cloak, I'm sitting at 92% condition duration before food. With food and crystal, I'm capped. The Chaos line doesn't offer me much regarding duration. The illusion line has the chaos line beat for flat damage buffs in both direct damage and condition damage. Neither line has a grandmaster that is great for the clone build, but overall I find Phantasmal Force and Malicious Sorcery to be more useful than boons on interrupt and boons on shatter. > > From a damage perspective, it's a competition of two traits: Maim the Disillusioned + Illusionary Retribution vs. Descent into Madness. Descent is decent, but for general use I have a hard time picking anything other than buffed up shatters. Anything less than a veteran dies before I can get a full clone rotation through, so it is better to just blast 24 confusion ticks _ 48 torment ticks in an AoE. If I'm against an elite or or higher, I can just hold my shatter for a bit to let my clones get a full rotation in, shatter them and instantly spawn all 3 clones back. Remember you can adjust your gear to lose 15% condi duration and pick up more Sinister stuff with Chaos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SharkBall.5829 Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said: > With Dune Cloak, I'm sitting at 92% condition duration before food. With food and crystal, I'm capped. The Chaos line doesn't offer me much regarding duration. The illusion line has the chaos line beat for flat damage buffs in both direct damage and condition damage. Neither line has a grandmaster that is great for the clone build, but overall I find Phantasmal Force and Malicious Sorcery to be more useful than boons on interrupt and boons on shatter. > > From a damage perspective, it's a competition of two traits: Maim the Disillusioned + Illusionary Retribution vs. Descent into Madness. Descent is decent, but for general use I have a hard time picking anything other than buffed up shatters. Anything less than a veteran dies before I can get a full clone rotation through, so it is better to just blast 24 confusion ticks _ 48 torment ticks in an AoE. If I'm against an elite or or higher, I can just hold my shatter for a bit to let my clones get a full rotation in, shatter them and instantly spawn all 3 clones back. Sounds like you need to change some viper to sinister or rabid (due to T->Condi conversion in chaos line). Signet (20%) + Dune Cloak (20%) + Sigil of Malice (10%) + 15% (planning on 5 boons) means that you only need 35% more duration from food and/or expertise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SharkBall.5829 Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 > @Kobeathris.3645 said: > > @Levetty.1279 said: > > Without the extra torment and confusion from Illusions, is it even worth shattering? > > No, and oddly, if you are using axe clones, IH, DE, SD, and AoS all hurt your DPS because they all interrupt your clone autos, and don't do enough to make up for losing auto #3. Lingering Thoughts does do enough damage to make up for replacing clones, even without a field, but it's close, with a field it's a boost. The highest damage I could get was Mirage 2 or 3/3/3, Dueling any/any/1, Chaos 1/2/3. Open with AoS, then spawn clones and use utilities and axe 2 when available (plus weapon and prestige if using geomancy or torch) . AoS should only be used to retarget. I like what you're doing. Similar to my build, but with a couple differences I'll highlight here. I've been having great success with -Dueling x(2 because nothing better)/1/2 (x/1/2 gives you 2 stacks of confusion on shatter, also improves torch/4) -Chaos 123 (although I use 223 when pugging T4s... the extra damage reduction is great when you can't count on randoms) -Mirage 133 (1xx lets you use Axe 2 + Jaunt x2 to insta-spam 3 axe clones after you shatter) For my bar I use Sig of Ether / Sig of Midnight / Sig of Domination / Illusionary Ambush (instead of Crystal Shards... afaik the only way to get clones to ambush if you aren't running Mirage xx1... also procs dune cloak) / Jaunt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curunen.8729 Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 > @Coulter.2315 said: > > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said: > > > @Kobeathris.3645 said: > > > > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said: > > > > > > > > I do wonder why everyone uses the chaos line for the clone build instead of illusions. > > > > > > Assuming you are aiming for 100% duration for all conditions, Illusions just doesn't add much. The shatter traits you won't use if you have Clones out for damage, It gives a max 150 condition damage assuming you have 3 clones out, while chaos gives at least 100 condition damage all the time, the extra confusion duration is wasted, the phantasm traits won't be used, so you are left with reduced cooldown on illusion summoning. Balance that against extra chaos storms without going to staff, frequent regen and protection, and typically at least 9% boon and condi duration, with more likely in group content. The Grandmaster is free to use for whatever you need. > > > > With Dune Cloak, I'm sitting at 92% condition duration before food. With food and crystal, I'm capped. The Chaos line doesn't offer me much regarding duration. The illusion line has the chaos line beat for flat damage buffs in both direct damage and condition damage. Neither line has a grandmaster that is great for the clone build, but overall I find Phantasmal Force and Malicious Sorcery to be more useful than boons on interrupt and boons on shatter. > > > > From a damage perspective, it's a competition of two traits: Maim the Disillusioned + Illusionary Retribution vs. Descent into Madness. Descent is decent, but for general use I have a hard time picking anything other than buffed up shatters. Anything less than a veteran dies before I can get a full clone rotation through, so it is better to just blast 24 confusion ticks _ 48 torment ticks in an AoE. If I'm against an elite or or higher, I can just hold my shatter for a bit to let my clones get a full rotation in, shatter them and instantly spawn all 3 clones back. > > Remember you can adjust your gear to lose 15% condi duration and pick up more Sinister stuff with Chaos. I'm holding out some hope waiting waiting for Power(M)/Condi(M)/precision(m)/concentration(m) stats - I really hope this stat combo gets added during LW4 sometime. The boon duration would synergise so well with Chaos, compared with the expertise from viper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kobeathris.3645 Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 > @Curunen.8729 said: > > @Coulter.2315 said: > > > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said: > > > > @Kobeathris.3645 said: > > > > > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said: > > > > > > > > > > I do wonder why everyone uses the chaos line for the clone build instead of illusions. > > > > > > > > Assuming you are aiming for 100% duration for all conditions, Illusions just doesn't add much. The shatter traits you won't use if you have Clones out for damage, It gives a max 150 condition damage assuming you have 3 clones out, while chaos gives at least 100 condition damage all the time, the extra confusion duration is wasted, the phantasm traits won't be used, so you are left with reduced cooldown on illusion summoning. Balance that against extra chaos storms without going to staff, frequent regen and protection, and typically at least 9% boon and condi duration, with more likely in group content. The Grandmaster is free to use for whatever you need. > > > > > > With Dune Cloak, I'm sitting at 92% condition duration before food. With food and crystal, I'm capped. The Chaos line doesn't offer me much regarding duration. The illusion line has the chaos line beat for flat damage buffs in both direct damage and condition damage. Neither line has a grandmaster that is great for the clone build, but overall I find Phantasmal Force and Malicious Sorcery to be more useful than boons on interrupt and boons on shatter. > > > > > > From a damage perspective, it's a competition of two traits: Maim the Disillusioned + Illusionary Retribution vs. Descent into Madness. Descent is decent, but for general use I have a hard time picking anything other than buffed up shatters. Anything less than a veteran dies before I can get a full clone rotation through, so it is better to just blast 24 confusion ticks _ 48 torment ticks in an AoE. If I'm against an elite or or higher, I can just hold my shatter for a bit to let my clones get a full rotation in, shatter them and instantly spawn all 3 clones back. > > > > Remember you can adjust your gear to lose 15% condi duration and pick up more Sinister stuff with Chaos. > > I'm holding out some hope waiting waiting for Power(M)/Condi(M)/precision(m)/concentration(m) stats - I really hope this stat combo gets added during LW4 sometime. The boon duration would synergise so well with Chaos, compared with the expertise from viper. I've thought about using that new Stat that is precision/condi main with I think concentration and healing power minor after capping duration. It would be less condi damage than using sinister, but more crit chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coulter.2315 Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 > @Kobeathris.3645 said: > > @Curunen.8729 said: > > > @Coulter.2315 said: > > > > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said: > > > > > @Kobeathris.3645 said: > > > > > > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > I do wonder why everyone uses the chaos line for the clone build instead of illusions. > > > > > > > > > > Assuming you are aiming for 100% duration for all conditions, Illusions just doesn't add much. The shatter traits you won't use if you have Clones out for damage, It gives a max 150 condition damage assuming you have 3 clones out, while chaos gives at least 100 condition damage all the time, the extra confusion duration is wasted, the phantasm traits won't be used, so you are left with reduced cooldown on illusion summoning. Balance that against extra chaos storms without going to staff, frequent regen and protection, and typically at least 9% boon and condi duration, with more likely in group content. The Grandmaster is free to use for whatever you need. > > > > > > > > With Dune Cloak, I'm sitting at 92% condition duration before food. With food and crystal, I'm capped. The Chaos line doesn't offer me much regarding duration. The illusion line has the chaos line beat for flat damage buffs in both direct damage and condition damage. Neither line has a grandmaster that is great for the clone build, but overall I find Phantasmal Force and Malicious Sorcery to be more useful than boons on interrupt and boons on shatter. > > > > > > > > From a damage perspective, it's a competition of two traits: Maim the Disillusioned + Illusionary Retribution vs. Descent into Madness. Descent is decent, but for general use I have a hard time picking anything other than buffed up shatters. Anything less than a veteran dies before I can get a full clone rotation through, so it is better to just blast 24 confusion ticks _ 48 torment ticks in an AoE. If I'm against an elite or or higher, I can just hold my shatter for a bit to let my clones get a full rotation in, shatter them and instantly spawn all 3 clones back. > > > > > > Remember you can adjust your gear to lose 15% condi duration and pick up more Sinister stuff with Chaos. > > > > I'm holding out some hope waiting waiting for Power(M)/Condi(M)/precision(m)/concentration(m) stats - I really hope this stat combo gets added during LW4 sometime. The boon duration would synergise so well with Chaos, compared with the expertise from viper. > > I've thought about using that new Stat that is precision/condi main with I think concentration and healing power minor after capping duration. It would be less condi damage than using sinister, but more crit chance. I tried a boon heavy open world build with that set, it produced perma prot, regen, fury, 20+ might and vigor - did less damage than just viper/sinister. Was fun and probably would be better at soloing certain content but noticably slower in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Lure.5624 Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 I play this style in open world, almost exactly the same traits. It is mesmer to me, it's so fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asur.9178 Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 ...that moment when you realize that the gw2 community has sunk so low that they think 30k+ DPS is "almost viable damage", simply because some builds/classes are over-performing and are absurdly and unreasonably strong/broken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abelisk.4527 Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 > @Asur.9178 said: > ...that moment when you realize that the gw2 community has sunk so low that they think 30k+ DPS is "almost viable damage", simply because some builds/classes are over-performing and are absurdly and unreasonably strong/broken. I think the term OP was going far was almost optimal. Simple mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asur.9178 Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 > @Abelisk.4527 said: > > @Asur.9178 said: > > ...that moment when you realize that the gw2 community has sunk so low that they think 30k+ DPS is "almost viable damage", simply because some builds/classes are over-performing and are absurdly and unreasonably strong/broken. > > I think the term OP was going far was almost optimal. Simple mistake. Highly doubtful, considering it's an overarching recent trend in the gw2 community. Just go through the necro forum for proof of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abelisk.4527 Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 Can you test with the new patch? I expect it to hit 34k DPS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mich.1793 Posted November 7, 2017 Author Share Posted November 7, 2017 Yo-hoo! The bugfix hit hard and the numbers are great! [Mirage IH Chaos 36.564]( "https://youtube.com/watch?v=vtINvv2O8Zo&t") [Gw2skill build](http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAn/cnELDNohVoB2LDMMjlVDzsEsc6J+DwG4DsMCMCCAA-jxhHQBkTvABV+Vu9Hon6PA4kAUrHAgGVCSKgFVWB-e "gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAn/cnELDNohVoB2LDMMjlVDzsEsc6J+DwG4DsMCMCCAA-jxhHQBkTvABV+Vu9Hon6PA4kAUrHAgGVCSKgFVWB-e") This can be easily improved to something around 38 imo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cossack.3126 Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 Why not O/H pistol? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mich.1793 Posted November 7, 2017 Author Share Posted November 7, 2017 > @Cossack.3126 said: > Why not O/H pistol? Useless. Don't use phantasms and sword gives the bonus ferocity cause a bug, instead the torch gives some burning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curunen.8729 Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 > @Mich.1793 said: > Yo-hoo! The bugfix hit hard and the numbers are great! > [Mirage IH Chaos 36.564]( "https://youtube.com/watch?v=vtINvv2O8Zo&t") > > [Gw2skill build](http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAn/cnELDNohVoB2LDMMjlVDzsEsc6J+DwG4DsMCMCCAA-jxhHQBkTvABV+Vu9Hon6PA4kAUrHAgGVCSKgFVWB-e "gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAn/cnELDNohVoB2LDMMjlVDzsEsc6J+DwG4DsMCMCCAA-jxhHQBkTvABV+Vu9Hon6PA4kAUrHAgGVCSKgFVWB-e") > > This can be easily improved to something around 38 imo! Awesome, good job! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenith.7301 Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 > @Cossack.3126 said: > Why not O/H pistol? Because it's an infinite horizon buid, so it doesn't use phantasms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyroatheist.9031 Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 You should test this with an ele spamming lava font for a fire field to whirl through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Refia Montes.3205 Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 Try using Energy Sigils. I think it would result in much higher dps as in the past, using it to replacr Geomancy resulted in the same dps. Could theoretically go more with more axes with Mirrored Axes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Refia Montes.3205 Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 > @Zenith.7301 said: > > @Cossack.3126 said: > > Why not O/H pistol? > > Because it's an infinite horizon buid, so it doesn't use phantasms. I would still use OH Pistol for that pocket stun though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coulter.2315 Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 Would taking Illusions over Chaos and shattering at low endurance when Axe 2 is fully charged be a better variant? Gives access to more AoE and you have 3 clones by the next time you Ambush. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bart.3687 Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 > @"Refia Montes.3205" said: > > @Zenith.7301 said: > > > @Cossack.3126 said: > > > Why not O/H pistol? > > > > Because it's an infinite horizon buid, so it doesn't use phantasms. > > I would still use OH Pistol for that pocket stun though. Both OH-sword's Fencer's Finesse and torch's The Prestige burning + blast finisher are more useful in pve than Pistol's Magic Bullet imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Refia Montes.3205 Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 > @bart.3687 said: > > @"Refia Montes.3205" said: > > > @Zenith.7301 said: > > > > @Cossack.3126 said: > > > > Why not O/H pistol? > > > > > > Because it's an infinite horizon buid, so it doesn't use phantasms. > > > > I would still use OH Pistol for that pocket stun though. > > Both OH-sword's Fencer's Finesse and torch's The Prestige burning + blast finisher are more useful in pve than Pistol's Magic Bullet imo. > Fencer's Finesse isn't that good imo. At best it only adds at most 500 dps to the build. It also is a bug obviously, it will probably get fixed. Prestige is part of your rotation. Ofc you'll have that. Personally running, Axe/Torch+ /Focus or Pistol is the best. Most Mirages were running Pistol anyways so it will be a lot easier to just use what they had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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